Blaming? No. Contributing to? Yes.

3/28/2017 2:43:10 PM

Contributing how much? 2%? 10%? 25%? 50%? 90%? Somewhere in between?

3/28/2017 2:51:00 PM

Quote :

"Are people in this thread seriously blaming a 70% single parent birthrate on incarceration? "

You tell us.

[Edited on March 28, 2017 at 2:57 PM. Reason : Cool strawman tho]

3/28/2017 2:56:39 PM

I know where he is going here because he's done similarly before.

It's obvious that incarceration, poverty, drug addiction and yes bad choices all contribute to it but as far as a % breakdown I haven't seen any study.

Poverty especially if you look at the states affected most by this (2010 census had Mississippi with highest rate).

[Edited on March 28, 2017 at 3:01 PM. Reason : X]

3/28/2017 3:00:23 PM

Quote :

"however, you overzealously defend the position that racism is a thing of the past."

You're moving the goal posts and building a straw man.

I'm claiming there is no racial disparity of opportunity in 2017. That was my statement. The color of your skin has no effect on your opportunities.

3/28/2017 3:13:53 PM

If you perceive that as a strawman, it was unintentional on my part.

Tell you what: Go back, reread what I wrote, replace "racism" with "racial disparity" if it makes you feel better and respond to that.

3/28/2017 3:16:11 PM

Racial disparity of opportunity, or racial disparity of outcome?

Because that is the key difference.

3/28/2017 3:17:57 PM

Quote :

"The color of your skin has no effect on your opportunities."

It certainly can when racism is still present; since you called me out on that as a strawman, do you in fact acknowledge that racism is still present?

And I will note there is an obvious correlation between racism and racial disparity. If racism still exists, quite clearly that can affect your opportunities when people in certain positions (police, employers, service workers,...) are racist (as inevitably some of them are).

3/28/2017 3:19:24 PM

Opportunity of course. Did you really have to ask?

3/28/2017 3:19:59 PM

JCE, what race and/or nationality do you identify as?

3/28/2017 4:35:26 PM

Quote :

"I'm claiming there is no racial disparity of opportunity in 2017. That was my statement. The color of your skin has no effect on your opportunities."

3/28/2017 4:54:33 PM

Quote :

"It certainly can when racism is still present; since you called me out on that as a strawman, do you in fact acknowledge that racism is still present? And I will note there is an obvious correlation between racism and racial disparity. If racism still exists, quite clearly that can affect your opportunities when people in certain positions (police, employers, service workers,...) are racist (as inevitably some of them are)."

That logic only works if you believe, in 2017, that only white people can be racist... which is essentially what the Marxist cult of social justice preaches.

Prejudice against every immutable characteristic "exists", the left and right strongly disagree on the scale of this problem, as the left is politically motivated to constantly exaggerate it... but both sides agree prejudices do and always will exist. Acknowledging this does not prove present-day inequality of opportunity by itself for a specific group, regardless of historic inequality.

So, both the left and right agree that racism exists and it is bad. They agree that 2017 society should be set up so everyone should have equal opportunity regardless of race. However, the right is happy as soon as there is equal opportunity, whereas the left truly wants equal outcome (Marxist fucks). The left points to the disparity of outcome as proof of racism limiting opportunities, and the right points to the disparity of outcome as proof of different choices.

3/28/2017 5:33:32 PM

Dear Jews











if you replace "white people" with "jews" and it sounds kinda racist, guess what? its racist both ways

3/28/2017 6:28:34 PM

Quote :

"That logic only works if you believe, in 2017, that only white people can be racist"

Why does it not work otherwise?

For one thing, whites are the majority in America. Wouldn't that majority presence make white racism against nonwhites much more pronounced than other ethnic stripes of racism? I'm not sure you've really thought this through completely.

Quote :

"However, the right is happy as soon as there is equal opportunity, whereas the left truly wants equal outcome (Marxist fucks). The left points to the disparity of outcome as proof of racism limiting opportunities, and the right points to the disparity of outcome as proof of different choices."

There you go pretending you've won the debate already. You can claim this all you want; you have yet to justify it.

3/28/2017 7:02:09 PM

Quote :

"For one thing, whites are the majority in America. Wouldn't that majority presence make white racism against nonwhites much more pronounced than other ethnic stripes of racism? I'm not sure you've really thought this through completely."

If it is more pronounced you would think you would be able to provide evidence of it, and yet all we have so far is speculation that because racism exists, a majority is more likely to have cases where they limit the opportunities of a minority.

This logic doesn't apply with other evils for which we have actual hard evidence. Take murder as an example. Whites are the majority in America, wouldn't that majority presence make white murder against nonwhites much more pronounced? Not the case.

Also consider that many white people are brainwashed into thinking they are oppressing minorities, while many minorities are brainwashed into thinking they are being oppressed... that also skews which groups act in which way... though I would like to know what your definition of racism is for this context, as it's meaning seems to have been stretched by leftist overuse.

Lastly I would add that the Dylan Roof/Micah Johnson racists of the world aren't exactly successful people... they don't have influence in institutions that typically have some judgement in an individual's opportunities.

So even the assumption that white vs nonwhite racism is the most prevalent just because of racial populations, a few racist hicks in a trailer park aren't going to influence how well a black kid does in school no more than a crazy #BLM racist will influence how long a white kid's prison sentence is.

3/29/2017 12:39:49 AM

Quote :

"If it is more pronounced you would think you would be able to provide evidence of it, and yet all we have so far is speculation that because racism exists, a majority is more likely to have cases where they limit the opportunities of a minority."

Well, after the brief detour resulting from your "strawman" charges, it seems you've decided it's most appropriate to come full circle and rehash this particular part of the debate again, for some reason.

As I have said before, with the long standing tradition/history of racial disparity in this country, I consider YOUR claim that racial disparity no longer exists in this country to be the exceptional claim in need of supporting documentation.

I admit to being reluctant to begin a ridiculous pissing contest with you in trying to provide evidence for my point of view, for reasons that should be obvious, even to you:

1) Most any link I offer as support will simply be attacked and dismissed by you as leftist propaganda.

2) No right leaning link meeting your approval can be offered to support my position because their narrative coincides with yours; any evidence to the contrary will be distorted/ignored by them.

3) Evidence such as the DOJ reports finding systemic racism in Ferguson, Baltimore, and other police depts I expect will most likely be met by you with' "But that was Obama's DOJ" or equivalent dismissal

So my question to you now is this: What justifies your adamant refusal to consider the possibility that racial disparity of opportunity still exists in America?

I will only remark that it's quite an easy belief system for you to maintain: Any contrary evidence can simply be ignored as leftist narrative/conspiracy; this is what you have always done in the past with your posts.

I am asking you now to actually SUPPORT your position, not simply attack others'.

[Edited on March 29, 2017 at 1:22 AM. Reason : ]

[Edited on March 29, 2017 at 1:23 AM. Reason : ]

3/29/2017 1:21:56 AM

Quote :

"I consider YOUR claim that racial disparity no longer exists in this country to be the exceptional claim in need of supporting documentation. "

That logic makes zero sense.

Think of racism as Polio. It used to be a big problem in America, we all agreed, and we took corrective measures to get rid of it.

If you come and tell me that Polio is a big problem in 2017, and I ask "okay, I don't like Polio either, where is it and how many cases are we dealing with" and you say "I don't know" I'm going to say you are full of bullshit.

Likewise if you say "Well Polio used to be a big problem, so you have to prove it isn't now" then I would reference the vaccines (in this case, every law making discrimination illegal, and every institution's policy on diversity).

And lastly, if you say "but some people still experience Polio" I will say that is true, but for the 0.01% of people having their opportunities lessened by polio, we have a system in place to help them.

The left's political agenda is to exaggerate victimhood every chance they get... so it makes sense leftists think ____isms and ____phobias are huge problems, because only the anecdotes that fit those narratives are presented to them in an echo-chamber. The same way if a kid grew up with every anecdote of a Polio case presented on the media, they would think Polio was an epidemic.

3/29/2017 11:23:37 AM

You are fucking retarded if you think the existence of racism is on the same level as the existence of Polio.

3/29/2017 11:31:03 AM

I think the existence of racism to a leftist is like the existence of God to a member of a religious cult.

It's everywhere, doesn't need to be proven, and it will always be there... and you are the spokesperson on it's behalf.

3/29/2017 11:47:29 AM

^^^Yeah, because those legislative "vaccines" to prevent theft, murder, fraud, kidnapping, rape, assault, and so on have proven to be so effective.

What a ridiculous analogy/argument.

[Edited on March 29, 2017 at 11:50 AM. Reason : ^]

3/29/2017 11:50:25 AM

^^ That analogy is on par with the Polio analogy.

3/29/2017 12:03:06 PM

lol, this clown continues to spout his collective-thinking, generalizing all "leftist" as thinking exactly the same , and his definition of a "leftist" is basically anyone who isn't conservative as he is. Then makes stupids analogies comparing racism to polio and the existence of god. I mean, you can't make this stuff up. The delusions are laughable man.

3/29/2017 12:26:57 PM

JCE, do you believe in God?

[Edited on March 29, 2017 at 3:05 PM. Reason : lemme guess....it's complicated?]

3/29/2017 2:59:44 PM

JCE probably follows all the Praeger University videos on YouTube. JCE why don't you try sending your resume to potential employers with a black sounding name and see how many responses you get as opposed to using your real name.

[Edited on March 29, 2017 at 3:36 PM. Reason : .]

3/29/2017 3:36:12 PM

If I had to guess, I'd say JCE isn't even white.

[Edited on March 29, 2017 at 4:03 PM. Reason : prediction: he'll latch onto ^ or this post and completely dodge the original question about God]

3/29/2017 4:03:04 PM

So many triggered leftists, so few counter-arguments.

Quote :

"^^^Yeah, because those legislative "vaccines" to prevent theft, murder, fraud, kidnapping, rape, assault, and so on have proven to be so effective."

Interesting that you mention these other crimes. Surely we would agree someone being murdered, robbed, raped, or assaulted would mean they had less opportunity than others, correct?

And using your logic regarding which race commits more racism... white people are the majority, therefore we should assume they commit more crimes against other races, just like racism, right? Yet that simply isn't the case.

Even with the population difference:

Murder: Blacks kill more whites than vice versa
Rape: Blacks rape more whites than vice versa
Robbery: Blacks rob more whites than vice versa

So it looks like there is a racial disparity of opportunity... it just doesn't fit your cult of social justice's narrative.

Quote :

"What a ridiculous analogy/argument."

Almost as ridiculous as your religious belief of assuming something is racist until proven not racist (and even then it still must be racist)

3/29/2017 6:02:34 PM

Quote :

"So many triggered leftists, so few counter-arguments."

And yet you dropped the polio analogy like a fucking hot potato. My counter-arguments are obviously having an effect, even if you refuse to acknowledge that fact.

So you follow up one shitty analogy (Polio and racism) with another shitty analogy (murder and racism).

Quote :

"And using your logic regarding which race commits more racism... white people are the majority, therefore we should assume they commit more crimes against other races, just like racism, right?"

Wrong. Don't attribute your faulty, simpleton's logic to me. There are so many differences between murder and racism (correlation between poverty and crime, as well as correlation between black and poverty) that...Congratulations! You have introduced another shitty analogy.

Not universally, but trends: Whites tend to be in more powerful positions in society (law enforcement, hiring,...), therefore, not only because whites are a majority, the racism they direct is more impactful due to their position in society. Blacks tend to be more poverty stricken, which tends to lead to more crimes committed due to more desperate living circumstances.

Tell you what: Give me another shitty analogy and I will once again tell you why that's a shitty analogy.

Or, you know, you could finally, actually, directly discuss the topic at hand...But it's clear you won't do that and will continue to refuse to do that, because you know your position is absolute bullshit. It becomes clearer and clearer that even you are aware of this fact the more you avoid answering my original questions.

3/29/2017 8:39:26 PM

And while you're still trying to confabulate an analogy re: racism and murder, it is worthwhile to note that murder is primarily racially segregated. Therefore, any attempt to draw an analogy with racism, specifically, seems quite flawed:



[Edited on March 29, 2017 at 9:10 PM. Reason : ]

3/29/2017 9:09:06 PM

blacks and whites need to work together to find these hedonistic Unknown killers

[Edited on March 29, 2017 at 10:35 PM. Reason : hedonistic heathens]

3/29/2017 10:30:30 PM

Quote :

"And yet you dropped the polio analogy like a fucking hot potato. "

I presented an analogy to show you how your logic isn't consistent. If you are claiming X is plaguing society, you need to be able to provide evidence. You can't though, so you retreat to "well it was bad in the past so you have to prove it isn't still bad". That logic is flawed, and that's why I give you an analogy... because words like "race" and "racism" are cue words for your brain to do mental gymnastics to bypass logic in order to defend your religion. The analogy lets you think about the logic free of your religious cult's influence... I think you see this and thus you fall back to character attacks rather than actually admitting your logic is flawed regarding when you have to provide evidence.

Quote :

"Whites tend to be in more powerful positions in society (law enforcement, hiring,...), therefore, not only because whites are a majority, the racism they direct is more impactful due to their position in society. "

And as I already said, racists of any race tend to not be in more powerful positions in society. So that logic doesn't work.

Quote :

" it is worthwhile to note that murder is primarily racially segregated. Therefore, any attempt to draw an analogy with racism, specifically, seems quite flawed: "

...

That's why I referenced interracial murder... do you think before you type this stuff? You clearly took the time to link an image for this "point"... and yet in the ~60 seconds that took you honestly couldn't come to this realization?

Quote :

"Or, you know, you could finally, actually, directly discuss the topic at hand...But it's clear you won't do that and will continue to refuse to do that, because you know your position is absolute bullshit. "

The topic was "Is there a racial disparity of opportunity". I provided 3 examples where there is a racial disparity of opportunity where whites are actually victimized more despite the population difference. You've done nothing but get triggered because you can't find evidence to support your religious cult of social justice.

[Edited on March 30, 2017 at 12:09 PM. Reason : .]

3/30/2017 12:05:12 PM

Hey, all I am trying to do is to get you to actually justify your automatic dismissal of evidence for racial disparity. Why do you refuse to even consider it, instead simply choosing to dismiss all evidence as anecdotal or propaganda.

I went looking for an example where you simply refused to acknowledge such evidence with flippant dismissals. I found this instead:

Quote :

"Obviously systematic racism (and by extension, white privilege) exists, but I think it is slowly getting better. Many corporations are focusing on diversity, and through that and affirmative action, I think America may be a 100% fair place for all races eventually, hopefully in our lifetimes."

-JCE2011, http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=645750&page=2#16251947

Well whaddayaknow, it seems we're in agreement after all, despite your trolling protests. I refuse to get into a pissing contest over exactly how prevalent it is, however. I'm done.

3/30/2017 1:16:29 PM

Quote :

"-JCE2011, http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=645750&page=2#16251947"

Look at how nice I was to the SJWs in 2015. I even extended the "white privilege exists" olive branch and it didn't work.

Quote :

"Hey, all I am trying to do is to get you to actually justify your automatic dismissal of evidence for racial disparity."

Can I dismiss something that doesn't exist?

3/30/2017 1:47:18 PM

Quote :

"And as I already said, racists of any race tend to not be in more powerful positions in society"

I'm not arguing with this lunatic but this is kind of insane to think.

3/30/2017 3:26:28 PM

It seems insane if you're in a religious cult that sees racism everywhere you look.

The "political correctness" has gotten so out of hand that actually non-racist people in positions of influence are getting fired by the church of social justice's lynch mob...

Look at what happened at Mizzou with the Johnathan Butler race hoax all of you gullible leftists fell for. The University President got fired because of a racism witch hunt... you cultists are so desperate for evidence of racism that you make it up.

The fact is racism isn't a trait that works well with 2017 American institutions, hence why none of you can find evidence of a disparity of opportunity based on race. Racists are out there, but they can't get to positions to wield power and influence on others. The Dylan Roofs and Micah Johnsons of the world aren't the ones determining prison sentences, college admissions, etc.

3/30/2017 4:46:38 PM

Quote :

"Racists are out there, but they can't get to positions to wield power and influence on others."

because on the job applications for those higher up positions it has "are you racist?" as a question and the Dylan Roofs and Micah Johnsons always check the "Yes" box.

hey everyone, powerful and influential positions have been deemed a "racist-free" zone! it's a good thing our presidents (who wield power and influence on others) couldn't be racist and/or increase the racial divide. amirite?

[Edited on April 3, 2017 at 12:21 PM. Reason : ]

4/3/2017 12:18:24 PM

Because Dylan Roof and Micah Johnson were definitely applying to "higher up" positions.

A discharged Army private and an unemployed loser... so much "influence".

4/3/2017 12:23:44 PM

because those are the only racists out there.

anecdote!

4/3/2017 12:57:42 PM

racists "out there". Lol.

Guys, I have no evidence and can't even define it, but it is "out there" and it is totally a huge problem and you just have to believe me! So what if my entire political platform is based on you believing me about it, I'm not biased!

#Religion

4/3/2017 3:01:31 PM

Quote :

"So, both the left and right agree that racism exists and it is bad. "

it exists...."out there"

4/3/2017 4:04:15 PM

So does Polio, what's your point?

So what if we vaccinate against Polio, you can't prove people in high positions aren't infected? Polio is "out there".

[Edited on April 3, 2017 at 4:39 PM. Reason : 10/10 analogy btw]

4/3/2017 4:36:25 PM

lol, JCE-dude seems more unhinged than usual

4/3/2017 4:45:51 PM

I guess you're triggered by my usage of "out there", but here's a direct quote from you

Quote :

"Racists are out there, but they can't get to positions to wield power and influence on others. "

[Edited on April 3, 2017 at 4:54 PM. Reason : JCE is "out there"]

4/3/2017 4:53:23 PM

God is out there. I can't cite evidence or specifics or define it, but it's out there.

If you disagree with me you have to prove god doesn't exist. God could be influencing people in high positions!

#ReligiousCult
#PerpetualVictimhood

4/3/2017 5:07:26 PM

JCE, are racists out there or not?

[Edited on April 3, 2017 at 5:29 PM. Reason : it's complicated. ]

4/3/2017 5:29:08 PM

That wasn't the area of dispute. I was making fun of the vague phrasing leftists use when discussing "oppression" and such.

The question was about a 2017 disparity of opportunity based on race... which is where the mental gymnastics come in to defend your religion.

4/3/2017 6:26:26 PM

no, sweetie....the question was:

JCE, are racists out there or not?

if you could read, I asked a question as indicated by the question mark.

4/3/2017 11:13:56 PM

and if you could read, you would see that has already been addressed ad nauseam ITT, so forgive me if I don't indulge you and your religious cult as you try to validate the existence of your omnipresent deity.

Racism exists
It must be here
It must be there
I must be oppressed
I must be a victim
Racism is everywhere!
Amen

4/4/2017 9:36:36 AM

so, is that a yes or a no?

4/4/2017 10:00:24 AM

Quote :

" So, both the left and right agree that racism exists and it is bad."

4/4/2017 10:13:38 AM

To the cis-gendered, white, conservative male obviously there is no Racism present in America today because his American experience is indicative of everyone else's, duh.

4/4/2017 10:14:38 AM