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8/24/2012 1:58:47 PM

^^^It depends on the students. Some students can work independently or in groups on a task that they're given, and they will go to the teacher when they need help. In that case, you could consider that "down time" for the teacher.

But some classes need constant prodding and assistance, and obviously that teacher will never have a moment to sit down, write an e-mail, print a rubric, etc...

8/24/2012 3:54:43 PM

If the students can do it on their own then there is no reason for that to be done during class time. This is part of the reason why schools are failing. If there is "down time" then there just isn't enough rigor in the assignment. The teacher should at least be floating around to see what each group/student is doing.

8/24/2012 4:15:09 PM

I disagree that if students can do something on their own, then that something isn't rigorous enough. I think you know that isn't true, but you're saying it because you really want to drive home this point that there is no such thing as down time for the teacher.

I do agree that teachers should obviously float around a little.

But it really is class- and subject-dependent. A history teacher should probably not end class by giving students 20 minutes to start reading the textbook and answering the questions at the end of the section. But, on a fairly typical day, a math teacher should end class by giving students 20 minutes to start on a problem set. After checking to see they can do it, the teacher should feel comfortable sitting down without being harangued as "half ass." Of course, math shouldn't be like that every day, and there are more engaging/rigorous assignments they should do.

8/24/2012 4:45:59 PM

if the teacher already knows every single one of the students can do the problems then why are they doing them in class? Thats busy work. they should be doing those problems at home.

8/24/2012 4:57:29 PM

8/24/2012 7:19:55 PM

Blah, I've never actually taught so I dunno. I just remember being in school, and I thought practicing on my own in class was a good thing.

[Edited on August 24, 2012 at 8:08 PM. Reason : Less opinionated.]

8/24/2012 7:48:01 PM

Thats a common problem teachers have. Its easy to think teaching a certain way is effective because we were taught that way and it turned out well but thats just not the case. Research has proven over and over again.

Also, multiple choice tests are a huge problem as well but teachers.

8/24/2012 8:24:47 PM

I would just use the book to teach and use the tests that come from the book, but use the bubble sheets to avoid wasted time grading.

8/24/2012 10:12:46 PM

even better are student clickers. the computer grades them as they take the test, and you don't have to be bothered about running 100 scantron forms through the machine.

8/24/2012 10:24:09 PM

I teach high school English and journalism. I love working with the kids, and it's very rewarding. But the soul-crushing bureaucracy is starting to get to me. The other day, one of my student editors for the newspaper came out to the school to meet with me about some story ideas she had. Unexpected meeting, but we were able to get a lot accomplished until I had to cut short my very productive, meaningful, engaging session with her to sit through a mandatory staff meeting to be trained on something I have been trained on each of the last seven years.

8/24/2012 10:25:22 PM

Quote :

"we were able to get a lot accomplished until I had to cut short my very productive, meaningful, engaging session with her to sit through a mandatory staff meeting to be trained on something I have been trained on each of the last seven years"

Sounds like a normal job to me.

8/24/2012 10:30:00 PM

at least your school lets teachers meet with students outside of school hours. that was illegal in my public school's county all because three teachers had sex with students in one year so the district decided all teachers were criminals.

8/25/2012 1:00:42 AM

Quote :

"The E Man: Research has proven over and over again."

Research has proven what over and over again?

8/25/2012 2:49:05 AM

That the old ways of teaching are not effective.

8/25/2012 8:43:40 PM

Get a Master's and teach college

Much less of a headache and better pay

I will say the politics and BS that come with working for a university/JC really suck though...

8/25/2012 10:20:15 PM

^^Which old ways? Cause I find it hard to believe that independent practice in the classroom is not effective.

Obviously, you want students to do a lot of independent practice at home so it doesn't take up too much instructional time. But the only way you can know if they can do it at home is by giving them time to start in class. That way you can correct misconceptions/confusion as they occur instead of having to wait a whole 24 hours for students come in and say they didn't get it or couldn't do it on their own.

If you know of some research that says this is a bad thing, I'd love to see it so I can pass it along to my friend who teaches math.

8/25/2012 10:44:00 PM

Quote :

"That the old ways of teaching are not effective."

Please cite these studies, my curriculum depends on it

Sure, there are some outmoded teaching methods that will fail to reach students, but there's also a LOT of BS pedagogy out there that relies too much on technology and wastes time.

8/25/2012 10:53:05 PM

Technology is important but good teaching practices with no technology would be much more important. I just went through grad school in padagogy and am not willing to do your research for you. Good teachers don't have significant down time. Take my word on it or don't.

8/26/2012 10:28:09 PM

What word?

You haven't said a goddamn thing and your posts make absolutely zero sense

8/26/2012 10:55:55 PM

Quote :

"That way you can correct misconceptions/confusion as they occur instead of having to wait a whole 24 hours for students come in and say they didn't get it or couldn't do it on their own."

you can't do this if you are at your desk working on something else.

8/27/2012 1:54:41 AM

I already acknowledged that teachers do have to move around during independent practice, but if you're floating around and checking answers for a solid twenty minutes straight, you're wasting your time and energy. You're also probably annoying your students...many of whom are perfectly capable of raising their hand or coming up to your desk when they have an issue. Do you require your students to take ownership of anything?

[Edited on August 27, 2012 at 7:05 AM. Reason : I'm not trying to be mean...you're just taking a very extreme position I've never heard before.]

8/27/2012 7:00:09 AM

a few semesters my wife couldn't move around her class, there just wasn't enough room due to all the students and the size of the room.

8/27/2012 7:18:35 AM

I have gone through a lot of the posts.

Just wondering if teachers in countries* where students score higher than students in the US in science, math, and language on international tests also have to deal with the bullshit that teachers in the US seem to have to deal with...?

* South Korea, Hong Kong, Japan, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Ireland, etc.

8/27/2012 7:32:41 AM

I'll get the political incorrectness out of the way by pointing out that a lot of those countries are very homogeneous, and two of them (Germany and Ireland) are more diverse but still much more homogeneous than the United States. People speculate that there is a shared cultural background that promotes a universal value for education that isn't quite as present in the United States.

Furthermore, the United States has a large minority population that is also more likely to be socioeconomically disadvantaged. Racists say these kids are bad and are bringing test scores down. Non-racists acknowledge achievement disparities and explain that our schools are still largely built around the white, middle class student, presumably leaving many non-white students out of the equation.

So, basically, it is very difficult to make any comparisons between education systems when they are so innately different. I love Sweden or whatever, but we're just nothing like them.

[Edited on August 27, 2012 at 8:57 AM. Reason : ]

8/27/2012 8:54:27 AM

Thanks. You explained possible reasons for differences in achievement. I was actually asking about all the administrative and curriculum bullshit that teachers in this thread and in general in the US complain about. Do teachers in other countries also have to face such BS which leaves a sour taste in their mouth regarding the teaching profession, or are things much more streamlined and hassle-free in other developed countries (for teachers)?

8/27/2012 9:07:39 AM

Quote :

"I have gone through a lot of the posts. Just wondering if teachers in countries* where students score higher than students in the US in science, math, and language on international tests also have to deal with the bullshit that teachers in the US seem to have to deal with...? * South Korea, Hong Kong, Japan, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Ireland, etc."

Yes. Lots of bureaucratic bullshit, teaching to the test, pain in the ass kids and parents, etc. I think those problems are universal.

Quote :

"if the teacher already knows every single one of the students can do the problems then why are they doing them in class? Thats busy work. they should be doing those problems at home."

Agreed. Giving the students a bunch of problems you know they can easily do is just a waste of classroom time. Those sorts of questions should be given as homework after the lesson to affirm that they actually learned the lesson.

While I can see where there would maybe be "down time" in something like a math classroom, I have a hard time understanding how there would be any down time in a science classroom, or English, or history, etc. A good friend of mine teaches English up in Michigan and she often complains about how much her feet hurt because she'll spend hours on end going around the classroom while students are doing group work or when leading a discussion.

8/27/2012 9:19:58 AM