+1 for the summit. I've only been to the one off alexander, but I'm a fan.

11/15/2011 9:04:33 PM

This thread reminds me of this thread: http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=620525

[Edited on November 15, 2011 at 9:10 PM. Reason : ]

11/15/2011 9:09:19 PM

One would hope if you're in the UUA, you'd find truth at some point and no longer be UUA, otherwise it defeats the purpose.

There is truth. And if you're taking a free and responsible approach to searching for the truth, I hope you find it and not just be ok with "searching is enough"

[Edited on November 15, 2011 at 11:28 PM. Reason : .]

11/15/2011 11:26:41 PM

11/16/2011 12:36:45 AM

Quote :

"Can anyone recommend a liberal church"

Not that gay affirming is a perfect stand-in for liberal, but this may provide at least some guidance. I don't know where you live, and I know this list isn't comprehensive for all such Churches in NC, but maybe it will help. I know a lot of episcopal churches are often more open on that end of things. If you click the link, you'll find the websites for most of the churches.

http://www.gaychurch.org/Find_a_Church/united_states/us_north_carolina.htm

Welcoming Gay Friendly Churches in North Carolina - NC
(sorted by city, denomination and then church name)

St. Elizabeth Episcopal Church Apex Episcopal

New Covenant Lutheran Church Archdale Lutheran, ELCA

New Creation ICCC Arden ICCC

Circle of Mercy Congregation Asheville American Baptist, United Church of Christ
All Saints and Sorts Church Asheville Congregational Catholic Church
Cathedral of All Souls Asheville Episcopal
St. John's Episcopal Church Asheville Episcopal
St. Mary's Episcopal Church Asheville Episcopal
St. Matthias' Episcopal Church Asheville Episcopal
Grace Covenant Presbyterian Church Asheville Presbyterian
Kenilworth Presbyterian Asheville Presbyterian
New Hope Presbyterian Church Asheville Presbyterian
Warren Wilson Presbyterian Church and College Chapel Asheville Presbyterian
Westminster Presbyterian Asheville Presbyterian
City View Quaker Church Asheville Quaker
First Congregational Church, UCC Asheville United Church of Christ
Land of the Sky United Church of Christ Asheville United Church of Christ

Shepherd of the Sea Lutheran Church Atlantic Beach Lutheran, ELCA

Fletcher Presbyterian Church Banner Elk Presbyterian

Grace Lutheran Church Boone Lutheran, ELCA
Boone Friends Meeting Boone Quaker
Christ's Church United of Boone Boone United Church of Christ
High Country United Church of Christ Boone United Church of Christ

St. John’s New Mission UCC Burlington United Church of Christ

St. Joan of Arc Candler Roman Catholic

The Episcopal Church of the Advocate Carrboro Episcopal

Olin T. Binkley Memorial Baptist Church Chapel Hill American Baptist
Chapel Hill Christian Church Chapel Hill Disciples of Christ
The Chapel of the Cross Chapel Hill Episcopal
Holy Trinity Church and Lutheran Campus Ministry Chapel Hill Lutheran, ELCA
Church of Reconciliation Chapel Hill Presbyterian
United Church of Chapel Hill Chapel Hill United Church of Christ
Amity United Methodist Church Chapel Hill United Methodist Church

Myers Park Baptist Church Charlotte American Baptist
Wedgewood Baptist Church Charlotte American Baptist
South Park Christian Church Charlotte Disciples of Christ
St. Martin's Episcopal Church Charlotte Episcopal
St. Peter Charlotte Episcopal
Holy Trinity Lutheran Church Charlotte Lutheran, ELCA
MCC Charlotte Charlotte MCC
New Life MCC Charlotte MCC
Revolution Church Charlotte Non-denominational
Caldwell Memorial Presbyterian Church Charlotte Presbyterian
Catawba Presbyterian Charlotte Presbyterian
Seigle Avenue Presbyterian Church Charlotte Presbyterian
St. Peter Charlotte Roman Catholic
Holy Covenant United Church of Christ Charlotte United Church of Christ

Christ Episcopal Church Cleveland Episcopal

Covenant Presbyterian Concord Presbyterian
Trinity United Church of Christ Concord United Church of Christ

Good Shepherd Episcopal Church Cooleemee Episcopal

St. David's Episcopal Church Cullowhee Episcopal

St. Alban's Episcopal Church Davidson Episcopal
Davidson College Presbyterian Church Davidson Presbyterian
Inclusion Community Davidson United Methodist Church

Watts Street Baptist Church Durham American Baptist
Duke Chapel, Duke University Durham Episcopal, UMC
St. Philip's Episcopal Church Durham Episcopal
Imani MCC Durham MCC
First Presbyterian Church Durham Presbyterian
Immaculate Conception Durham Roman Catholic
Pilgrim UCC Durham United Church of Christ
Calvary UMC Durham United Methodist Church
Sanctuary UMC at Lakewood Durham United Methodist Church

First Presbyterian Church Edenton Presbyterian

Abiding Savior Lutheran Church Fairview Lutheran, ELCA

Blessed Family of God Fayetteville Alliance of Christian Churches
Diversity in Faith Fayetteville Interdenominational
Open Arms Community Church Fayetteville Non-denominational
United Ministries in Christ Fayetteville Non-denominational
St. Patrick Catholic Church Fayetteville Roman Catholic

Open Hearts Gathering Gastonia Disciples of Christ

FaithWalk United Methodist Church Gibsonville United Methodist Church

Abundant Grace Church Granite Falls Non-denominational

College Park Baptist Church Greensboro American Baptist
The Episcopal Church of the Holy Spirit Greensboro Episcopal
Holy Trinity Episcopal Church Greensboro Episcopal
St. Andrews Episcopal Church Greensboro Episcopal
First Lutheran Church Greensboro Lutheran, ELCA
Wesley Luther Campus Ministry Greensboro Lutheran, ELCA
Fellowship of Faith Greensboro ICCC
Fellowship Presbyterian Church Greensboro Presbyterian
Presbyterian Church of the Covenant Greensboro Presbyterian
First Friends Meeting Greensboro Quaker
Friendship Friends Meeting Greensboro Quaker
New Garden Friends Meeting Greensboro Quaker
Congregational United Church of Christ Greensboro United Church of Christ
Wesley-Luther Campus Ministry, UNC Greensboro Greensboro United Methodist Church

Holy Trinity Episcopal Church Hampstead Episcopal

MCC Sacred Journey Hendersonville MCC
First Congregational Church of Hendersonville Hendersonville United Church of Christ

The Episcopal Church of the Ascension Hickory Episcopal
St. Alban's Episcopal Church Hickory Episcopal
Christ's Church of the Foothills Hickory ICCC
Exodus Missionary Outreach Church Hickory Non-denominational
Without Walls Ministry (WOW) Hickory Non-denominational

St. Christopher's Episcopal Church High Point Episcopal
Christ Presbyterian Church High Point Presbyterian
Forest Hills Presbyterian Church High Point Presbyterian

Hillsborough United Church of Christ Hillsborough United Church of Christ

Colington United Methodist Church Kill Devil Hills United Methodist Church

Grace Episcopal Church Lexington Episcopal

The Episcopal Church of the Holy Spirit Mars Hill Episcopal

Montreat Presbyterian Church Montreat Presbyterian

St. Andrew's Episcopal Church Morehead City Episcopal

Lutheran Church of the Good Shepherd Mount Holly Lutheran, ELCA

Fletcher Presbyterian Newland Presbyterian



Unifour Christian Fellowship Church Newton Alliance of Christian Churches

Saint Padre Pio Pastoral Center Raleigh American Catholic Church
Pullen Memorial Baptist Raleigh American Baptist
Church of the Good Shepherd Raleigh Episcopal
St. Mark's Episcopal Church Raleigh Episcopal
Holy Trinity Evangelical Lutheran Church Raleigh Lutheran, ELCA
St. John's MCC Raleigh MCC
St. Giles Presbyterian Church Raleigh Presbyterian
West Raleigh Presbyterian Church Raleigh Presbyterian
St. Francis of Assisi Raleigh Roman Catholic
Community UCC Raleigh United Church of Christ
Umstead Park UCC Raleigh United Church of Christ

First United Methodist Church Reidsville United Methodist Church

St. Luke's Episcopal Church Salisbury Episcopal
St. Matthew's Episcopal Church Salisbury Episcopal

Warren Wilson College Chapel Swannanoa Presbyterian

St. Stephen Progressive Baptist Church Thomasville American Baptist
First Presbyterian Church Thomasville Presbyterian

Waldensian Presbyterian Church Valdese Presbyterian

Church of the Good Shepherd Wilmington Episcopal
Church of the Servant Wilmington Episcopal
Lutheran Church of Reconciliation Wilmington Lutheran, ELCA
St. Jude's MCC Wilmington MCC
First Presbyterian Church Wilmington Presbyterian

Amazing Love Praise and Worship Center Wilson Non-denominational

Wake Forest Baptist Church Winston Salem American Baptist
First Christian Church Winston Salem Disciples of Christ
St. Anne's Episcopal Winston-Salem Episcopal
MCC Winston-Salem Winston-Salem MCC
Church of the Holy Spirit Fellowship Winston-Salem Non-denominational
Holy Trinity Church Winston-Salem Non-denominational
St. Jude Community Church Winston-Salem Non-denominational
Trinity Presbyterian Winston-Salem Presbyterian
Parkway United Church of Christ Winston-Salem United Church of Christ
Green Street United Methodist Church Winston-Salem United Methodist Church

Winterville Christian Church Winterville Disciples of Christ

11/16/2011 12:58:00 AM

Cool - good find. I agree, gay tolerance seems like a good litmus test.

11/16/2011 7:05:54 AM

West Raleigh Presbyterian Church is on the above list. They are very big into service and doing things in the community not just saying stuff on Sunday. They also have an active campus ministry and they are really close to campus. The building looks old and traditional and most services are fairly traditional but they shake things up every now and again. A few weeks ago they cut the service off 20 minutes into it and had had several service opportunities set up for everyone to do. We went out and cleaned up a park near campus while others knitted prayer blankets, raked leaves for shut-ins, or one of a number of other things.

I think they meet your criteria, it is worth an Sunday visit, and probably a Wednesday night one (for campus ministry) if you are still a student.

11/16/2011 8:32:44 AM

Quote :

"They run a "contemporary" service, which is kinda fruity in my opinion, and the congregation does the "raise your hands and close your eyes like you're in some kind of trance" or something, which I've always thought is a pretty lame show."

Just wondering, what's lame about that?

I attend the Summit's North Raleigh Campus (near triangle town center). I love the worship, the sermons, the people, and the things going on in the community around there.

Also, a good friend of mine was a regular at West Raleigh Presbyterian and I attended it with him a few times. Their service is very traditional and is a good one if your into the more formal worship services. The people there are incredibly nice and very friendly to talk to, and they do some really good things in the community.

11/16/2011 8:57:13 AM

didnt see it mentioned, but Hope Community Church near Cary is pretty awesome.

www.gethope.net

you can listen to a few of Pastor Mike's previous messages for a gauge as to the type of sermons given. the church is huge, but that's also lends itself to the social benefits you seek.

(i dont know how it gauges on a liberal scale, but the messages, to me, are far more relevant to today's society than any other conservative church i've been to before.)

[Edited on November 16, 2011 at 9:06 AM. Reason : link edit]

11/16/2011 9:05:23 AM

^^ He probably thinks the same way that I do, that it's just kind of cheesy and contrived. I went to a church one time where they did that arm waving junk and I was thinking, "Am I in a sermon or a Backstreet Boys concert?"

[Edited on November 16, 2011 at 9:07 AM. Reason : a]

11/16/2011 9:06:51 AM

^^From what the OP describes, Hope would not be for him. It still sounds to me like he is looking for a church that "isn't too Christian for him". Hope would not be a good fit.

11/16/2011 9:59:45 AM

haha i love that liberal churches equate to gay churches

I'm Krallum and i approved this message.

11/16/2011 10:11:14 AM

You could always try Reform Judaism, there's a reform temple in Charlotte and Gastonia. Don't mention hell, big on community stuff. But they do chant in Hebrew.

But as far as gay accepting, no mention of hell and focus on community that might be a good bet.

11/16/2011 10:16:55 AM

LOL@Christians arguing with each other over what a real church is.

11/16/2011 11:42:50 AM

Why not go for the 'converted WASP-to-mystical-Islam' persona who uses conversion to get back at his parents and establish a sense of quasi-cultural superiority?

Seems like classic Solinari.

11/16/2011 11:46:54 AM

I think I made it pretty clear that I wasn't looking for a "real christianity" church, and requested that the thread not devolve into a debate over the merits of religion, relationship, true jesus, or any of that crap.

^ because mystical islam is not my roots and i'm not looking to get back at anyone - just want to go to a traditionally christian church that won't judge me for being a humble atheist.

[Edited on November 16, 2011 at 11:49 AM. Reason : ]

11/16/2011 11:47:16 AM

^So I guess it's fair game to start a thread saying "I'm not sure who I should vote for when the 2012 elections come around.... but I just want your opinion, so please don't make this a Soap Box thread!"

11/16/2011 11:48:53 AM

No, because there are churches out there which meet the criteria that I described. I just didn't know what churches they were.

It's a simple matter of matching criteria to church. There's no need for debate, at all.

11/16/2011 11:50:27 AM

So as long as I gave criteria when I asked TWW who to vote for, it would be okay to expect the conversation to not devolve into a 'Soap Box' discussion. Got it.

11/16/2011 11:54:29 AM

Quote :

"just want to go to a traditionally christian church that won't judge me for being a humble atheist."

You have to be trolling. Atheist is far far worse than gay in any Christian church's eye. If you find a church that worships Jesus and doesn't judge you negatively if they know you're an atheist, please let me know.

Of course, if your goal is to be converted, they'll probably be thrilled. Since you refer to atheism like it's some phase you get out of when you leave college, I wouldn't be surprised if that was your goal.

[Edited on November 16, 2011 at 12:35 PM. Reason : .]

11/16/2011 12:33:40 PM

I meant judge me from the pulpit - of course I wouldn't advertise myself as an atheist, and would profess christianity if I were asked. I just don't want to hear judgement from the pew that's what I meant.

11/16/2011 1:06:23 PM

Quote :

"doesn't judge you negatively if they know you're an atheist, please let me know."

Any good church would proselytize the fuck out of him once they found out.

11/16/2011 1:11:28 PM

Alright, I'm going to try to explain this again...

...Religions have beliefs that are encapsulated in texts. Some people follow them more literally than others, but they try to abide, generally, by those texts. If you have ever cracked a Bible open, the main point of Christianity is to (a) do good for others, (b) praise God, and (c) share God with others.

You aren't interested in (b) or (c). Part (a) involves accountability, even at a very liberal level. When you say "I want a traditional Christian church" start saying you don't want anyone to 'judge' your actions or tell you how you should act, you're either just really, really ignorant as to how any religion works, or you're trolling because those two things are at odds with each other.

If you're just a very liberal person who is agnostic and doesn't want to hear about certain things, I don't agree with it, but people would be saying "yeah, go to any Presbyterian USA church" or something like that. Your criteria is like saying "I want some water that's not too wet".

So.... yeah, it kind of sounds like you're trolling.

11/16/2011 1:12:59 PM

Quote :

"I meant judge me from the pulpit - of course I wouldn't advertise myself as an atheist, and would profess christianity if I were asked. I just don't want to hear judgement from the pew that's what I meant."

What in the world are you trying to get out of it? Seriously? Explicitly what social benefits are you trying to get? I am at a complete loss as to why you'd want to meet anyone at a church unless you believed as they did and wanted to use that as common ground to get to know them.

11/16/2011 1:38:25 PM

Quote :

"If you're just a very liberal person who is agnostic and doesn't want to hear about certain things, I don't agree with it, but people would be saying "yeah, go to any Presbyterian USA church" or something like that. Your criteria is like saying "I want some water that's not too wet"."

That's all I'm saying, and honestly I don't think its that crazy.

11/16/2011 1:38:50 PM

Quote :

""Your criteria is like saying "I want some water that's not too wet"." That's all I'm saying, and honestly I don't think its that crazy."

Aight, man, good luck.

11/16/2011 1:45:04 PM

Quote :

"If you have ever cracked a Bible open, the main point of Christianity is to (a) do good for others, (b) praise God, and (c) share God with others."

This sounds more like trolling than anything I've heard yet.

First, you could thoroughly study the first 60% of the bible and everything up to that point would predate Christianity. And everything you would have read is something that modern Christians systematically ignore. So the argument that the tenets of Christianity are obvious in every part of the bible is just silly.

It goes without saying that pretty much all religions are about b) and c).

You could find a handful of verses that support a), but you can find just as many that support genocide, slavery, rape, and torture.

11/16/2011 1:48:18 PM

^The Old Testament serves to document the old promise God had with His people so that the new promise is magnified and it's application is apparent. The purpose of the Old Testament is to explain the coming of the New Testament in the Christian Bible.

As far as the comments about "you could find verses about rape, torture, et al", I haven't see anything in the Christian scriptures that advocate rape and torture. The theme of doing good for others is blatantly taught over and over and over, not just in individual verses. I don't want to get into a "big thing" arguing the entire scriptures, but to say that the Old Testament is full of teachings for the Christian church is completely misunderstanding why the Old Testament was recorded in the Bible and to claim that rape and torture are encouraged by the followers of the Christian faith is just silly. I'm not going to randomly throw out a claim that you're "trolling", I just think you're mistaken.

The OP, on the other hand, is just flat-out trolling. 'I want a church that doesn't act like a church and doesn't follow it's religion'... okay, then don't go to a church. Simple.

And regarding your assertion that (b) and (c) are contained in many religions, I don't argue that. Muslims spread Islam and Mormons spread the words of Joseph Smith. So that only goes to further prove the point that if you are looking for a place that won't attempt to share faith with you but only offers social events, you're looking in the wrong place by going to a church, temple, mosque, et al.

EDIT: While I obviously disagree with disco_stu's assertion that the tenets of Christianity are internally inconsistent, he nailed my frustration. The discussion isn't about the fidelity of the Christian faith.

[Edited on November 16, 2011 at 2:28 PM. Reason : Credit to disco_stu.]

11/16/2011 2:22:36 PM

^^C'mon dude, he wasn't saying "if you literally read the Bible from front to back", he was just suggesting that the whomever he responded to didn't have a cursory understanding of Christianity.

You don't have to explain to us how Christian doctrine and practice in America generally doesn't follow every tenet of the Bible. It can't possibly because the tenets of the Bible are internally and externally inconsistent.

But he's general assessment of the basic goals of modern Western Christianity are fairly accurate, IMO. Honor God, do good, spread the Word (whatever this particular church thinks that means).

Quote :

"I haven't see anything in the Christian scriptures that advocate rape and torture."

Look at it from atheist's perspective. A Christian *worships* a being that has committed genocide, allowed rape and pillaging, and generally was at least at some point a terrible despot by their account. It's not an advocation that all Christians should be allowed go out and rape people because their God was a terrible being at some point in the past, but it's pretty damning that these people consider actions OK that any reasonable person would find detestable just because it was their God doing it (or mortals doing it at their God's behest). It's morally repugnant.

And even though we're convinced that their God is really imaginary, it's still morally repugnant to move the moral yardsticks for an imagined being if you're convinced that that being was real and the acts he committed or commanded to be committed really did happen.

[Edited on November 16, 2011 at 2:31 PM. Reason : .]

11/16/2011 2:23:51 PM

So basically I'm looking to avoid exactly the kind of churches that NCStatePride would appreciate, because I'm trying to avoid people like him.

In any event, I've gotten lots of awesome recommendations in this thread so I'm ok with it being either locked or moved to the soapbox, since its obvious that its going to spiral into a tedious discussion of whether or not the Bible has any errors in it.

Thanks guys!

11/16/2011 2:32:22 PM

To be honest I'd be pissed if I was a Christian and some atheist was lying to me and taking advantage of my friendship based off of that lie. Have fun with those social benefits!

11/16/2011 2:33:58 PM

Thanks... For the record, I would hope and expect that any church I did find would have at least more than a few people that were of the same persuasion as myself.

I can't possibly be the only person smart enough to realize that there's no god, who still wants the support, tradition, and sundry benefits that accompany church attendance.

11/16/2011 2:36:21 PM

You're going to keep it a secret and/or lie about your own christianity until when? You think you're good enough friends with somebody to tell the truth? Won't you feel kind of stupid telling somebody you pretended to be Christian just to be their friend?

11/16/2011 2:37:40 PM

Any church I felt comfortable attending wouldn't have people who based their friendship on whether or not someone was a christian.

11/16/2011 2:38:34 PM

Quote :

"the support, tradition, and sundry benefits that accompany church attendance. "

Beyond sitting with the same people for a few hours on Sunday, what exactly are the other benefits and are they direct predicated on the shared belief of the practitioners? If you're going to meet people from Church outside of Church doing non-Church related things why not just meet people based on those non-Church commonalities in the first place and skip the pretense and having to get up early on Sunday to listen to people claim knowledge about things they can't possibly possess?

Quote :

"Any church I felt comfortable attending wouldn't have people who based their friendship on whether or not someone was a christian."

It's a church, for Christ's sake! People go there for the express purpose to share in worship of their beliefs! I'm being completely honest here, if you find whatever it is that you're looking for please let me know.

[Edited on November 16, 2011 at 2:41 PM. Reason : .]

11/16/2011 2:39:53 PM

Quote :

"To be honest I'd be pissed if I was a Christian and some atheist was lying to me and taking advantage of my friendship based off of that lie. Have fun with those social benefits!"

+1

And yeah, Solinari, I know. I hate to interact with individuals that try telling me that maybe I'm looking for some sort of social interaction in a place not well suited for it. I really hate when people try to save me some time and effort and suggest alternatives to things I like.

Just take the whole church thing out of it. Imagine there is something you feel passionately about whether that's an organization, a school affiliation, or a professional affiliation. Let's actually say you're in the military. You see someone saying "I don't really want to have to get deployed or anything like that... I just want a uniform and the discounts. I can't be the only one who's ever enlisted just for the uniform and discounts." Would that piss you off a little bit?

11/16/2011 2:41:24 PM

Quote :

"Beyond sitting with the same people for a few hours on Sunday, what exactly are the other benefits and are they direct predicated on the shared belief of the practitioners? If you're going to meet people from Church outside of Church doing non-Church related things why not just meet people based on those non-Church commonalities in the first place and skip the pretense and having to get up early on Sunday to listen to people claim knowledge about things they can't possibly possess?"

Well, for one thing, tradition is undervalued amongst atheists. I value tradition.

Also, in my opinion, there is an intangible benefit that comes from mysticism. There are other religions that probably have more powerful mystic symbols and practices, but christianity is the only one that has a personal signficance to me, since it is what I was raised with, and is the specific religion that our society is based on.

Quote :

"Let's actually say you're in the military. You see someone saying "I don't really want to have to get deployed or anything like that... I just want a uniform and the discounts. I can't be the only one who's ever enlisted just for the uniform and discounts." Would that piss you off a little bit?"

Fundamentally, it would be offensive because military service members risk their lives for our country and the uniform and its trappings should be reserved for them, because of that.

[Edited on November 16, 2011 at 2:47 PM. Reason : ]

11/16/2011 2:44:52 PM

Quote :

"^^C'mon dude, he wasn't saying "if you literally read the Bible from front to back", he was just suggesting that the whomever he responded to didn't have a cursory understanding of Christianity."

I was specifically responding to his claim that a cursory understanding of Christianity could be acquired by "cracking open" the bible. It can't.

I don't disagree that "do good for others" is a central tenet of Christianity in practice and that's great. But I'm skeptical that the concept is represented in every part of the bible.

Quote :

"Well, for one thing, tradition is undervalued amongst atheists."

I tend to agree and I don't think your request is farfetched:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Christian

[Edited on November 16, 2011 at 2:48 PM. Reason : asfasd]

11/16/2011 2:47:04 PM

Quote :

"Fundamentally, it would be offensive because military service members risk their lives for our country and the uniform and its trappings should be reserved for them, because of that."

Right, so it's offensive because you picture there being a great sacrifice and something that their very lives are dedicated to serving others.

So exactly how you view that, you have to respect that many people in many religions view their beliefs just as passionately. It may sound stupid to you, but even people who have a liberal interpretation of the Bible may feel strongly about their faith. So what you are doing is saying "I don't really believe anything you believe and don't want you to tell me about it because it just doesn't sound credible, but I want to 'be a part of your club'." It's just kind of disrespectful to the people you're trying to join.

Did you even look into the Jaycees that was suggested to you by A Tanzarian? They're like a non-church affiliated youth/civic/leadership organization. That might really be what you need.

---

Quote :

"I was specifically responding to his claim that a cursory understanding of Christianity could be acquired by "cracking open" the bible. It can't."

It was a freaking expression, and it's a common one at that. Similar to if someone says "wow, you're acting up... time to crack open your Bible". Blatant Troll.

[Edited on November 16, 2011 at 2:52 PM. Reason : .]

11/16/2011 2:51:05 PM

shut up NCStatePride - I specifically asked in the OP not to go down this road with your ilk.

Quote :

"I tend to agree and I don't think your request is farfetched: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Christian"

That's very interesting - had no idea there was an actual name for this, thanks for sharing - it describes me perfectly. I think I have a new label for myself, lol.

11/16/2011 2:53:12 PM

Yup. Apparently, cultural jews are really common. The president of American Atheists is jewish and I think he's remarked that he sends his daughter to a really nice jewish school with the understanding that they won't be pushing any dogma on her.

I've even heard cultural muslims talk about their situations.... which is a little bit more dire because the punishment for apostasy is death.

11/16/2011 2:56:12 PM

Quote :

"shut up NCStatePride - I specifically asked in the OP not to go down this road with your ilk."

Aight, so we're just completely ignoring any notion that you're disrespecting church members by lying to them about your beliefs to be a part of a social group despite the fact that alternatives have been suggested and how you may be making others feel has been addressed. Good luck, I guess.

EDIT: Seriously, this time. It's really obvious that you are completely avoiding talk that isn't "Soap Box" related that question your motives and if you're looking in the right place for what you want. If you are having to pretend to have a religious belief that you don't have in order to make friends and ask TWW for approval, then I guess I have to feel bad for you. I don't know what your ulterior motive is for lying to a group of people to find acceptance and enjoy 'social benefits' (which you've been asked about many times and ignored), but there is definitely something trollish about this whole thing.

Your "criteria" for a church (a "traditional Christian" church that doesn't push "Christianity") is just crazy and the occasional chiming in from posters with these weird ideas of what is and isn't in the Bible is almost as annoying (but it's a college community and I remember hearing a lot of the same crap a couple years ago so I 'understand' that part). Have fun fitting that round peg in the square hole, man.

[Edited on November 16, 2011 at 3:03 PM. Reason : ...]

11/16/2011 2:56:19 PM

If you are an atheist, like you say, how could mysticism possibly serve any use. You have science, reason and logic. You don't need mysticism. You don't need to believe in a make believe being. I feel like you're trolling us.

Quote :

"but to say that the Old Testament is full of teachings for the Christian church is completely misunderstanding why the Old Testament was recorded in the Bible and to claim that rape and torture are encouraged by the followers of the Christian faith is just silly. "

sounds like you have a misunderstanding of the Bible.

The New Testament is just as barbaric, in fact it is recorded in the Gospel of Matthew that Jesus advocates what "law of Moses" "Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)"

In Ephesians and 1st Timothy Slavery is once again encouraged and rules are given on how to deal with your "christian slaves"

[Edited on November 16, 2011 at 2:59 PM. Reason : need]

11/16/2011 2:58:19 PM

I don't need a comfortable pillow when I lie down at night, either.

11/16/2011 3:07:32 PM

^elaborate. I'm unsure of the point you are trying to make.

NVM, I get your point now. You don't need it, but you'd like it. This I can understand much more than "needing" it. GL finding a church like you describe.

[Edited on November 16, 2011 at 3:23 PM. Reason : nvm, I'm retarded.]

11/16/2011 3:12:48 PM

Quote :

"Any church I felt comfortable attending wouldn't have people who based their friendship on whether or not someone was a christian."

You've already said you're keeping the atheism to yourself and would even be willing to lie about it if directly asked. They may be comfortable with being friends with an atheist but probably not somebody that's willing to lie about it just to have friends.

How far are you wanting to take this? Sunday services? Retreats? Bible study groups? Just seems like if you're not down with Christianity's message, you'll be uncomfortable about 99% of the time.

11/16/2011 3:59:48 PM

Quote :

"Your "criteria" for a church (a "traditional Christian" church that doesn't push "Christianity") is just crazy ... Have fun fitting that round peg in the square hole, man."

If you think this, then you clearly haven't kept up with trends in megachurches lately. As someone else pointed out, contemporary Christian churches preaching the gospel of wealth and a more general spirituality, etc., have become extremely popular in the last decade.

I don't understand why so many people are having such a hard time imagining why Solinari might be looking for something like this for social benefits; it might seem a bit hypocritical to some to try and slip into a church for something other than the perceived primary purpose of church (having an outlet for religious practice), but it's not crazy for an otherwise moral atheist to want to find a crowd of people with a relatively greater proportion of morally like-minded people with traditional values than one might find in similar social activities not connected to the organized church.

Sure, he could probably join a secular bowling league, but maybe he's more interested in the atmosphere that a church bowling league would offer. This is not as absurd as most of you are painting it as.

11/16/2011 5:55:53 PM

UU sounds really interesting now that I think about it.

11/16/2011 5:58:17 PM

Sol, I recommend not going to a church.

Some churches are going to blast you the minute you fess up and claim that you aren't a Christian.

Try joining the Masons or some other organization where you aren't pressured to lie about what you believe.

11/16/2011 6:00:54 PM

Yes, some of those people have made an appearance in this thread

I will probably try out one of these churches this weekend and let you guys know how it goes.

People have made a good point about lying - I guess I will just keep my beliefs to myself and if I am asked directly I will say that I am a christian in my own way. My own way being a cultural christian.

11/16/2011 6:46:06 PM