^ I know this will sound dumb, but many many people, including myself, have never done Co-ops or Internships. For instance, I tried to do Internships for the past 2 or so years, but nothing ever materialized. It's not that my GPA is bad (it's about a 3.1 now), or that I've never had a job. Not to mention that there simply isn't enough internships and Co-ops to go around for everyone. What do you exactly propose I do? Take up working on a Golf Course or at a factory for the rest of my life because I never had an Internship, and thus, nobody will hire me? I'm sorry, but it sounds like a bit of trolling or a lot of insanity. I have over $24,000 in loans. There's no way in hell I'm going to settle for some minimum wage job. I've worked too hard and I feel that I bring a lot to the table for any company for me to just give up and settle into obscurity into some shit job that nobody will ever want to do for the rest of their life.

I know having a Co-op or an Internship means a lot on a resume, but lets be honest, we all know it's a load of shit when it comes to determining if the person is a good candidate for hire. Just because you have experience in something doesn't mean you'll be good at it. I know how to throw a football and I have experience doing it, does that mean I should be a quarterback for any college team? Hell no. People automatically assume that just because you have a Co-op or an Internship on your resume that you're automatically good. Perhaps recruiters will think that. But at least bring in anyone who appears to meet your requirements in for an interview, and don't buy every piece of bullshit a person throws at your feet.

Think back to your undergrad and see how many idiots and slackers got interviews and job offers all because they know how to throw out a good line of BS. They're the same people who go back and brag about it the next week in class. IMO, having a co-op or internship just means they have experience in bullshit during the interview process.

10/5/2010 12:20:20 AM

^ I just finished a 3 rotation coop and had an internship prior and I can say that I feel a lot more confident in what to expect in an engineering job. One thing I saw there was how well/poorly students applied their academic skills to the real world. Surprisingly, one of the most intelligent coops ended up getting fired for general incompetence at work.

Depending on the field of work, a coop can be very helpful. I did mine with an electrical engineering consultant and I can tell you I learned a shit ton about electrical systems, code requirements and using AutoCAD. Unfortunately, I am studying civil engineer so it doesn't really help. However, if I wanted to pursue the field, I could step into an Electrical Engineer I position at any company and feeling comfortable.

You have to think about the position recruiters are put in. They see you, an entry level engineer, as an investment. They want every bit of information they can find to judge the likelihood that you will be successful (and profitable) for the company. If you don't have a track record that says "I did something comparable to this job and I didn't totally fuck it up", you are seen as a higher risk candidate. Not impossible to overcome, but it definitely is something you need to counter balance with other aspects (GPA, social skills, etc).

[Edited on October 5, 2010 at 12:32 AM. Reason : .]

10/5/2010 12:28:56 AM

^ I am not saying that a co-op doesn't help the students. I'm not saying that at all. I hate to be mean, but please re-read what I said. I'm saying that for a recruiter, a student having a co-op shouldn't exactly mean that they're necessarily better and that if you don't have a co-op or internship you're a pariah.

Take the guy who had a co-op who got fired for being bad as an engineer. Is he going to end up putting that co-op down on his resume? YUP! But as you said, he's a bad engineer. But the sad thing is he'll end up getting preferencial treatment because of his co-op. Sure, he might get weeded out in later interviews, but he'll be far more likely to get that initial interview, and that's bullshit!

10/5/2010 12:37:05 AM

If a student gets a coop or internship, it shows initiative. Why? Because there aren't unlimited internships and coops. Most students, like me, had to work our asses off to get one. No one just said "We want to hire you". I went on 8 interviews and got shot down 7 times before I got an offer.

10/5/2010 12:53:41 AM

I think internships and co-ops only really benefit the employer that hired you in the first place. If you were worth a crap while you were an intern or doing your co-op, they'll be the first to offer you. Outside of that, it's only really useful if you picked up some relevant experience while you did the internship and co-ops, more along the lines of learning how to use certain programs that a similar company may utilize.

10/5/2010 12:57:04 AM

^^ And had you never gotten the Co-op or internship, yet you still tried, would that have meant you didn't have initiative? Assuming you worked your ass off, yet failed, would that mean you didn't have initiative because you failed? No. I didn't think so. Getting a co-op or internship doesn't show that you have initiatie, it shows you got lucky.

10/5/2010 1:28:45 AM

^ it sucks but its the way the system works, and for good reason. Employers would rather hire the guy that was doing something useful instead of playing chatroulette all summer. Find a cause you like and start volunteering. I see plenty of resumes where job holes have been filled in with volunteering stints

10/5/2010 1:31:24 AM

^ Yup, that's what I did.

10/5/2010 1:33:26 AM

Quote :

"I'm saying that for a recruiter, a student having a co-op shouldn't exactly mean that they're necessarily better and that if you don't have a co-op or internship you're a pariah."

I sympathize, I really do, but it's obvious that you've never looked for a job before. There's three ways to get a job: know somebody, have a good pitch, or have experience. It sounds like you don't have the first two and you aren't doing so well in the third either. I don't doubt that you're very smart, but "I went to class for four years" isn't going to beat "I've done that job for six months". Not no way. Not no how.

The good news is that it isn't May yet. I suggest you work on the three ways to get a job. Even if it's just doing volunteer work and getting professors to know you, have something to go on!

10/5/2010 1:43:57 AM

I graduate in December. I don't want to say I have never had a job, just none in ME. I did do a study abroad where we did a project for Caterpillar. Obviously, I will mention this and it is on my Resume.

10/5/2010 1:46:32 AM

Oh. Well I would definitely play that up, yeah.

10/5/2010 2:26:39 AM

Hey as an FYI, usajobs isn't as worthless as it sounds. I got my job here at NASA through a posting on usajobs and every now and then when I heard about new openings I post the link to them on a thread here in the Lounge. You just have to make your resume stand out.


And on the topic of co-ops and internships, I'm honestly going to have to disagree with you merbig. I had no trouble getting a co-op... for all the crap that the NCSU co-op program gets they do have a really easy and simple to use system. It might just be because I am in engineering and lots of engineering companies offer co-op positions, but a ton of my friends were able to get co-ops and internships too. If you are unable to get something like that, look for anything to do with your degree. One spring I asked one of my professors if he needed any help with lab work or anything and I ended up being his lab assistant on Centennial Campus all summer. All I really did was set up lab experiments that his undergrad lab class would work on in the Autumn semester, but it was something.

10/5/2010 9:34:52 AM

all the nasa jobs are in states i try to avoid :/

10/5/2010 10:25:49 AM

ITT, merbig complains about his lack of job getting skills.

Don't pander to him, he obviously didn't try hard enough, and so yes, he has less initiative than other candidates or he's lacking in the social department (my guess from his posts on this page) and he is still a worse get than other candidates.

Stop blaming the system. If you wanted an internship bad enough, you would have gotten one. Don't blame your lack of being first in line to get offered a job on "bad luck" because you didn't get an internship.

10/5/2010 10:27:53 AM

ITT AstralEngine trolls merbig

10/5/2010 10:35:09 AM

I had co-ops and internships throughout college and when I graduated last year, I worked temp as a process technician, and yes I wasn't using my degree to its fullest but I was gaining experience and keep my work history up so now when I go to the career fair today I will hopefully standout above people like merbig....just saying

10/5/2010 10:39:24 AM

^^You're right, but it's not out of being an internet asshole, it's because comments like merbig's make me .

I can't think of a better example of someone who feels like their degree entitles them to a job in their field than this guy, based on the comments he's made above. And that he tries to play getting a job off as luck and argue that he's just as good a candidate is just ridiculous. /rant


PS - to put something useful in this post: I'll be a the career fair interviewing applicants with resumes tomorrow. I can say that I absolutely agree with everything that has been mentioned above. I haven't come across any resumes printed on thick paper before, but I have to admit it might give me pause if I was handed one, and that extra second or two is more than enough time for something to catch my eye I otherwise would have missed.

[Edited on October 5, 2010 at 10:52 AM. Reason : ]

10/5/2010 10:50:58 AM

what company? and are you hiring full time MEs?

10/5/2010 2:25:54 PM

Quote :

"I had no trouble getting a co-op... for all the crap that the NCSU co-op program gets they do have a really easy and simple to use system. It might just be because I am in engineering and lots of engineering companies offer co-op positions, but a ton of my friends were able to get co-ops and internships too."

Same here. One practically fell in my lap. I didn't even go through the official co-op program. Networking FTW.

10/5/2010 3:23:57 PM

^yea i didn't go either, I found mine posted on a bulletin board in Broughton and then joined the co-op program to keep my full time status

10/5/2010 3:25:06 PM

Another suggestion, after going to the career fair and with the collection of business cards you undoubtedly have collected, write a letter and mail it to them or even an email (for speed if interviews are on campus). Anything you do that separates yourself from the pack to a recruiter is gold. If the company is talking to your major's club (AICHE, ASME, whatever the others are), go to it and say it's great seeing you, ask questions. By showing this initiative, you will help yourself in leaps and bounds. I got my internship in the summer of 2008, when things started going to hell mind you, because the group of interviewers were impressed that I mailed each one of them a personalized thank you card mentioning things we talked about in the interview (I had 6 different interviews in one afternoon). I was the only intern that was not from the Midwest that they hired that summer (this was in Chicago) and I asked why that was and they said that distinguishing factor of the thank you letters.

Always send a thank you, best tip of advice after an interview, but make sure the grammar is up to par or else it can hurt you. It seems cheesy, but interviewers like these things, if you get the job with the company, you've also built a potential network with this person for the future. You will look like a better than average person by taking the 5 minutes it takes to write the letter, so just do it.

10/5/2010 3:53:39 PM

I seriously wish they would quit opening it up to everyone but NC State students. I pay good money for this.

I swear, like every other guy I saw was NOT from NC State there today. Hell I saw some guy from Florida who was like 70 looking for a job.

I saw Evan. Think I scared him when I went up and said hi. I wish I knew half the rest of you by face would have said hi as well.

10/5/2010 4:24:03 PM

^I would say yes to that except make in nc state students and alumni, because I was there as an alumni

10/5/2010 6:48:31 PM

Yeah, I would like it more if it was just NCSU students and alumni, but I imagine it might make it harder for them to attract as many companies if they restricted it like that. They probably pitch the career fair as being a huge regional event that attracts all the best local talent from NCSU and elsewhere.

10/6/2010 12:23:37 AM

well 80% of people i saw there were students, and you would expect that in a normal economy which means you get 80% of graduating seniors which is good with the occasional alumni, which say in 2003 wouldn't of been there

10/6/2010 12:30:38 AM

Quote :

"I suppose I can. I work for Babcock & Wilcox in Lynchburg, VA. We will be at the Engineering Career Fair on Tuesday only. We're looking for ME's, MSE's, and maybe NE's. I myself was an AE, and my wife (who also works at B&W) was a CHE/PPS."

I stopped and talked to your company. I don't think I specifically talked to you (sorry man, I'm pretty tired right now and I have an interview in 30 minutes). The guy who I did talk with I seemed to have been able to engage him well, and most companies seemed to have responded to me relatively positive. Out of probably 15 or so companies that I talked to, there was probably 1 that didn't seemed to go well.

Thanks for your tips. I gave your company my resume and I do hope to hear from you guys.

10/6/2010 7:29:52 AM

Quote :

"but I imagine it might make it harder for them to attract as many companies if they restricted it like that"

To be honest, as a company who recruits there, we are mainly looking for NC State people at the NC State fair. Usually if we hire someone outside of NCSU from the NCSU career fair, it is for something like finance, estimating, scheduling etc. But when we have UNCC, Duke, NCA&T, etc. grads handing their resumes in for engineering jobs vs NC State students, we're going State almost every time.

I love all the Duke grads though that go through their engineering program and then go get their MBA or do the "Engineering Management" grad program. They are always coming to our booth at the NCSU fair looking for "a management position" or "project management" or "engineering management." I pretty much tell them straight up (but in a polite, professional way at the career fair of course) that you aren't coming in as a manager as a new graduate. Our managers come from within and 99% of the time worked in engineering for several years before ever getting moved to the management level.

10/6/2010 8:38:06 AM

surprised this thread didn't see more activity today

10/6/2010 3:18:41 PM

^^ haha good to hear that about the duke engineering management program. They annoyed the hell out of me with the constant ads and mailings they would send me. I looked at it when the economy went to crap but only for a moment. They can't just let NCSU be best at engineering in NC they have to throw all their money at it to get an engineering program going.

10/6/2010 6:18:35 PM

Quote :

"They probably pitch the career fair as being a huge regional event that attracts all the best local talent from NCSU and elsewhere."

I worked on the committee that runs the Career Fair, and while I didn't work directly in advertising to companies, I remember we definitely pitched it as a way to get NC State students, not local area students.

10/7/2010 2:11:33 PM