2

[Edited on September 3, 2010 at 2:07 AM. Reason : ]

9/3/2010 2:07:09 AM

Being that the OP mentioned Volvo--what about an S60R/V70R? Beautiful cars with awesome interiors (though I do think they're all leather) and, from all I hear, quite a good drive. I've driven an S60 2.5T and I found it to be nice for a FWD car, so presumably the AWD, more horsepower R would up the fun factor considerably.

For a few grand more (+/- 20K) you could get a CTS-V...

[Edited on September 3, 2010 at 8:53 AM. Reason : v]

9/3/2010 8:39:39 AM

RRRRRR

9/3/2010 9:31:25 AM

hgtran he wants a manual transmission, not some gay auto box with paddles

Anyway, if you want the sportiest Volvo to date you could always try to find one of those in sedan or wagon form. Could be pretty hard to find though

9/3/2010 10:35:23 AM

^at least post the newer v70r

9/3/2010 11:01:11 AM

^I posted the one that's more hardcore.

9/3/2010 12:13:13 PM

Yeah those are pretty nasty... the lady my buddy bought his 242 turbo from had one of the sedans. If i found one chances are that it would be ragged to hell, as hers was.

and yes, please a REAL manual trans!

Where the heck should I try to look for a zhp (with cloth?!) internet searches are not turning up much. Have not called around to the used euro dealers yet. I'm still concerned about long term cost on a BMW.

I'm sort of in a hurry as I'm daily driving a RAM250 work van. I could probably go another month before I go nuts and buy a silver camry

[Edited on September 3, 2010 at 1:08 PM. Reason : d]

[Edited on September 3, 2010 at 1:15 PM. Reason : I figure if I go with a BMW I might as well go with a good one. Otherwise its TL]

9/3/2010 1:05:58 PM

Are you insinuating that there's something wrong with a RAM250 work van?

9/3/2010 2:40:04 PM

well, it uses 2 trips worth of gas for every trip... sure it carries 4+ trips worth of stuff, but I usually just need to carry me.

there are other downsides, hate driving it 50 miles a day just to go to work when i could be saving its miles, its a harsh ride, massive blind spot, etc

9/3/2010 2:49:12 PM

There was a girl on campus a few years ago who drove a yellow 850 R, just like the one posted up there but a sedan. She really didn't look like a car person (though obviously looks can be deceiving) so I have to wonder if it was a hand-me-down from a parent or something. Kind of unfortunate to see a cool car get used carelessly as an appliance...

Then again maybe she tracked it on the weekends, who knows.

9/3/2010 3:44:25 PM

You keep mentioning the Acura TL and wanting a manual transmission...

Not only will it be difficult to locate that car with a manual, many car magazines reported that the car was more enjoyable with the automatic transmission. I think the torque steer was pretty bad.

9/3/2010 3:45:44 PM

The one in the OP link has a manual. The manual version also came with wider tires, attributing to some of that torque steer. I've never had a front driver with enough power to experience it much. I like the TL because its an accord that's not an accord. I have not driven one yet though. Part of me is screaming reliability and practicality, the other part wants something that will wag its tail.

9/3/2010 4:17:18 PM

The TL is garbage. I would go look at other brands before I looked at another honda product.

They are getting super lazy about their engineering and it shows.

Also, if you plan on keeping the car for a while, make sure you garage it. It has weak paint.

9/3/2010 5:32:43 PM

Quote :

"many car magazines reported that the car was more enjoyable with the automatic transmission. I think the torque steer was pretty bad."

They did, but it apparently didn't have true torque-steer, as in mash the throttle in a straight line and the wheel tugs to one side.

It was described like if you were coming out of a tight turn and mashed the gas, it would take effort to return the wheel to center because the car would want to keep turning. More like "intertia-steer." But, it was limited to that scenario.

Bryan, I would also check out the G35 sedan. It usually beat the TL in comparisons and was praised for being balanced and tossable, and they're also reliable.

9/3/2010 6:39:26 PM

why does everyone hate on FWD "sports" cars but think the world of Volvos?

9/3/2010 7:30:25 PM

'Cause Swedish people have awesome meat balls...

9/3/2010 8:10:00 PM

^^not volvos just the R cars.

300 hp/300 lb ft torque, 4 piston brembo fixed caliper brakes, turbo, awd, electronically controlled adjustable shocks, nice interior, etc

overall a very understated car that's pretty quick, easy to live with, reliable, and fairly inexpensive (i've seen good examples sell for under $11k). the car's target demographic doesn't really lend used ones to be ragged out either.

i could care less about the rest of the volvo line up.

that being said, if i could do it all over again i would've just gotten an evo or possibly an STi. (easier said than done to find one that isn't a POS though)

[Edited on September 3, 2010 at 9:44 PM. Reason : ]

9/3/2010 9:43:01 PM

sport sedan in the 15k range.. easy choice.

9/4/2010 9:52:42 PM

Yeah, I like the V70R, and the G35 is pretty nice, but it really is a fight for 2nd place.

9/4/2010 9:59:42 PM

ZHP!!!1

[Edited on September 5, 2010 at 12:25 PM. Reason : .]

9/5/2010 12:24:24 PM

definitely zhp

9/5/2010 5:57:38 PM

What is ZHP? I am looking at getting rid of my G35 coupe for a sedan. Went and drove a 07 330i (auto) and a 07 is350 (auto). There was a 07 328i 6mt on the lot too but I didnt drive that, less power than the 330 was not even an option. Liked the way the 330 drove but felt WAY under powered. Liked the power of the is350 but didnt really enjoy 'driving' it.

9/7/2010 9:44:31 PM

^
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf-PxRNvTNk

9/7/2010 10:30:28 PM

Quote :

"What is ZHP?"

BMW code for performance package offered on '03-'06 330i and 330ic. It includes 18" wheels, sportier suspension, 10hp more, 6800rpm limit vs 6500, M steering wheel, gorgeous OEM short shifter and knob, revised, more aggressive bumpers...etc.

Quote :

"Went and drove a 07 330i (auto)"

330i was not made in '07. Maybe an '06 model you drove.

Yeah if you want a car that is more powerful than G35 you are looking at 335i. Nissan's VQ engines definitely feel more powerful than E46/E90 N/A variety.

[Edited on September 7, 2010 at 10:46 PM. Reason : k]

9/7/2010 10:42:40 PM

yeah it was an 06, the 328 was an 07. Guess I will look out for a 335i, maybe getting out of my price range though.

9/7/2010 11:13:17 PM

^^^did you even read the OP. He wants to spend around $15k. If you think you can find a G8 GT for less than $20k you're high on something.

9/7/2010 11:37:51 PM

juicedgsr is not the OP

Quote :

"07 330i (auto) and a 07 is350 (auto)"

plus he's getting rid of a G35 coupe

9/8/2010 6:21:53 PM

Quote :

"There was a girl on campus a few years ago who drove a yellow 850 R, just like the one posted up there but a sedan. She really didn't look like a car person (though obviously looks can be deceiving) so I have to wonder if it was a hand-me-down from a parent or something. Kind of unfortunate to see a cool car get used carelessly as an appliance... Then again maybe she tracked it on the weekends, who knows."

I worked with her. She just drove it, def. didn't track it.

9/8/2010 7:14:32 PM

is it really worth getting an 05 M3 with 75k miles, when for roughly the same price you could get an 07 335i with 35k?

M3 - http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/1942152878.html
335i - http://raleigh.craigslist.org/ctd/1866821367.html

or is one of those cars price incorrectly, meaning the comparison is pointless?


also this is kinda interesting, but I can't even imagine what the maintenance would be like.
http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/1930589170.html

lastly, this one says 'sport package', does that mean it's the ZHP?
http://raleigh.craigslist.org/ctd/1932658446.html

9/8/2010 7:48:57 PM

i don't think they did a zhp in the e90s.

9/8/2010 10:36:21 PM

They did not, there's a lot of discussion in what was involved in a ZHP package, and I'm not positive of the exact details but some of the important ones have been covered already. In my opinion, the steering ratio, the steering wheel, and particularly the lack of sunroof are the big ones, and you may be able to find a sport package 330i without a sunroof, but good luck with that. I've owned 6 M3 Sedans, didn't come across a single one w/out a sunroof, and would've loved to.

BTW, automatics in sporty/sports cars kill baby seals, commit mass rape in Myanmar. Please boycott them, as every automatic is a win for the terrorists and a strike against the United States of freedom.

9/8/2010 10:53:05 PM

^^^ Did the 335i's actually come with 17s on them? I'm thinking no. If I'm right, it makes me wonder why they either took the good wheels off or if those are even pics of the actual car.

9/8/2010 11:48:05 PM

^^^^ That is the 330 I drove. Great condition, just wasnt what I was expecting as far as power goes...then again I had never driven a BMW before and my expectations may have been too high.

G8 is nice, more than I am looking to spend though from the quick craigslist search I did.

9/9/2010 8:18:59 AM

Don't judge a 3 series w/an automatic transmission. BMW's manual transmissions have been outstanding, and they've traditionally had such an average automatic gear box. I feel like if you're looking at a non M 3 series with an automatic, you're missing the point of the car. At that point, you may as well go with something cheaper to buy/insure/upkeep.

9/9/2010 10:52:44 AM

How do the RWD BMWs handle in snow?

9/9/2010 11:08:05 AM

good to know, I really was leaning towards an auto sedan. With these auto 7 speeds out now, the power feels great. Is the is350 and the G37 the only 7 speed autos on the market? The G37 is out of my price range, but for the money I am looking at ( <$24k ) I can get into a 07 is350.

9/9/2010 11:11:29 AM

^^^ Yep. Buying a 330i with an automatic is ridiculous.

I will say that the 330i is not a big hp car...it isn't going to feel quite as fast as that G35 coupe. Calling it "underpowered" is a little crazy, though.

^ it's not that the automatics are slower...it's that torque converters induce so much squishiness to the drivetrain and utterly ruin the power delivery characteristics of the car, which is necessary for control. I don't really "get" paying the money for a BMW to enjoy all of its attributes, while purposefully crippling it with an automatic.


Go try a 330i w/ sport package and 5 spd. That's what BMW is about. I'm sure the ZHP is awesome, but I suspect it's an incremental enough step up that you'd have to be a pretty serious car nut to appreciate the difference (I mean, even I can't justify the price difference. I'd never buy a ZHP over an E46 M3...I'd just have to make do with only 2 doors if I wanted more than a standard 330i w/ sport package, which is really a sweet ride.

the sport package is most easily identifiable by the 3-spoke steering wheel. Also, if you really want to get picky and split hairs, the cars without fold-down rear seats have a significantly stiffer chassis (but that's probably too into the weeds for your purposes).

[Edited on September 9, 2010 at 11:31 AM. Reason : ]

[Edited on September 9, 2010 at 11:37 AM. Reason : any sport-pack will be fine]

9/9/2010 11:29:13 AM

Quote :

"juicedgsr is not the OP Quote : "07 330i (auto) and a 07 is350 (auto)" plus he's getting rid of a G35 coupe"

Since when did he hijack the thread?

9/9/2010 3:13:12 PM

since i stopped posting in it a whole lot.. been watching the hell out of this and the other similar thread though.

One thing I don't get is why 'some people' (can't remember who without going back) like the TSX but not the TL. It seems to me that its just a smaller TL, but I have not done a whole lot of homework.

9/9/2010 7:12:09 PM

if i was looking for a sport sedan in the mid 20K rage i'd get this hands down

9/10/2010 9:45:12 AM

Quote :

"One thing I don't get is why 'some people' (can't remember who without going back) like the TSX but not the TL. It seems to me that its just a smaller TL, but I have not done a whole lot of homework."

Think analogous to "vagina"...TSX is smaller, tighter, and therefore much more fun.

9/10/2010 9:47:40 AM

^^ yeah that's what i've been thinking about lately, something like this - http://raleigh.craigslist.org/ctd/1944592383.html

9/10/2010 3:13:22 PM

Well, that's quite a bit higher than the originally proposed ~$15k budget range, but if you can afford to, it's quite the nice and fast car. Surprisingly capable as well, and they pick up a lot of power from a tune.

9/10/2010 4:12:02 PM

Last week my brother picked up a 335i 6sp sedan with 28k miles for just under $25,000. No sports package, but still an amazing deal imo.

10/11/2010 8:09:13 PM

^ what year? where did he find it?

i'm concentrating on ones with a manuals/sports with a CPO...and for ~27-28k with a CPO i'm looking at 07's with ~35k miles

10/12/2010 2:27:21 PM

speaking of 335. i want one but HPFP is turning me off. HPFP on 335i has now been warrantied by BMW to 120k miles. Still not a long interval considering that problem has not been resolved and that bmw is still installing same pumps. Now people are reporting failures on '10 models. Some have been lucky and are still on their first one, but some people are on their 3rd or 4th pump.

[Edited on October 12, 2010 at 6:01 PM. Reason : h]

10/12/2010 6:00:41 PM

I wonder if they redesigned the HPFP in the new N55 single turbo engines. The BMW HPFP is definitely a different architecture than the one that say Ford is using.

10/12/2010 7:48:39 PM

^^I'm still on #1, I've had more vanos issues and misfiring than anything else.


[Edited on October 12, 2010 at 8:51 PM. Reason : probably jinxed myself.]

10/12/2010 8:50:29 PM

^^^^2007 model that is CPO. He found it at some dealership in Hickory.

10/12/2010 11:43:18 PM

335i =/= LSD

unless the new ones are diff of course.

10/13/2010 7:52:55 AM