When I went to look at the 350Z roadster at Leith Acura, I wound up talking to some salesman on the lot who had absolutely no interest in selling me the car. He kept telling me to make him an offer, and when I did, he ignored it.

Two weeks later they'd dropped the price of the car below what I'd offered to the first salesman, so I went and bought it from a new guy. When he saw in the records that I'd talked to someone else beforehand and asked about it, I told him flat out that the other salesman was worthless, I had absolutely no interest in buying the car from him, wanted his name removed from my record at the dealership (in case he was going to try and snag some of the other guy's commission) and he just cost the dealership a couple of grand in the process.

6/7/2010 10:21:12 AM

lol, nice! When I bought my S2000 (from Lake Norman Infiniti) I called ahead and told them I saw the ad online and wanted to come check it out and test drive it. When I got there they had the car parked out front next to the owner's 360 Modena and (since it was a cold December day) they'd already warmed up the engine for me. They still call me 1-2 times a year to ask how I enjoy the car. Such service!!!

6/7/2010 11:32:48 AM

I remember going to a Chrysler dealer because I saw they had a Z on the lot (automatic, which I wasn't going to buy, but wanted to drive since I couldn't drive a manual yet), called and told them I wanted to test drive it. They said sure, come on over.

The car was sitting in the middle of the showroom, covered in the "BUY ME NOW" paint. When I finally spoke to the guy I'd made the appointment with, he told me "oh, no problem, we can get the paint off and get it out of the showroom". I told him that it wasn't worth my time to wait and I wasn't going to buy the car and then he started trying to sell me one of the 70 Crossfires they had on the lot.

6/7/2010 12:26:04 PM

Anyone else feel like the whole business model of dealerships is screwed up these days? I'm no expert, but I feel like with internet shopping, no dealer should be around to actually sell cars anymore. It feels to me like they should be service centers with a convenient place to pick up your new car, and a selection of a reasonably wide range of models to test drive, with the dealer getting a cut of the amount you pay the actual manufacturer for the new car.

Nothing annoys me like the rediculous pressure to buy if you're actually test driving the thing. I can't imagine buying a vehicle without test driving it, and I fully expect that any new car I ever buy will have a few miles on it from other folks test driving, but they try to make it seem like some huge crime that you want to test drive and still *might* not buy it.

6/7/2010 1:28:10 PM

I've bought one vehicle from Lake Norman Infiniti and my family has bought 3 from them. I agree with above, very good customer service. I also loved that dealership because they'd give me a loaner for a day or 2 - no questions asked - for an oil change.

^I actually like knowledgable salesmen. Most of the cars I'm interested in I've already researched, but there is still some info that's not on a forum. I also don't mind negotiating, but that's because I think I can talk to people and don't get intimidated by a car salesman. Put yourself in their shoes...they're just trying to make a buck, probably don't have any education and they probably hate the pony show as much as you do.

6/7/2010 1:48:10 PM

^ yeah, its much better when you get an enthusiast-type guy as your salesman instead of the guy that gleams his flashy-white teeth and compliments on how you probably know more about the car than he does. once i even went so far as to ask them if i could get a service tech to take me out on a test drive instead of their unknowledgable sales staff.

6/7/2010 2:31:34 PM

One of my co-workers was getting his Boxster serviced at Leith Porsche and he was admiring the new Panamera. One of the salesmen told him it was FWD.

WTF? LMAO.

6/7/2010 2:40:01 PM

Yeah, I've never actually met a car or motorcycle salesman who knew more than enough to be dangerous. Not at a normal dealership, anyway...maybe at some specialty/exotic car dealership.

Personally, by the time I get far enough into the buying process that I'm looking to test drive something, I will have long since forgotten more than any salesman at the dealership will ever know about the car in question.

6/7/2010 2:50:43 PM

TWW Garage is not a representative sample of the auto buying populace.

6/7/2010 5:38:12 PM

Oh, no doubt about that.

6/7/2010 5:44:25 PM

I went back and test drove the 370Z. I wasn't impressed with it and let them know that. I told them to run the numbers on the 370Z anyway, so they ran my credit and suddenly they were trying to sell me either the Z06 (2LZ) or ZR1 (3ZR) that was on the new car lot (those were the only ones the sales manager said they had with manual transmissions).

6/11/2010 1:10:50 PM

lol

What didn't you like about it? I haven't driven one yet but want to and am curious of your thoughts.

I remember having the Porsche dealership running the numbers on a $70k Cayman S for me. 72 month financing was like $1400/mo, lol.

6/11/2010 2:25:46 PM

if its anything like the 350z the sheer bulkyness of the vehicle is enough to sway anyone looking for a pure sports car. it feels like an axe. i cant imagine a c6 is any different though.

6/11/2010 3:28:44 PM

350zs feel bloated, the C6 doesn't have that feel, just disconnected.

6/11/2010 3:42:18 PM

I drove a C6 Z51 back to back with my Evo IX.

The C6 feels very powerful, with big grip. It feels...enormously capable, and a surefooted, steady platform. It didn't really strike me as feeling huge, having weighty controls, or anything less than immediate responses to steering inputs...

Until I got out of it and back into my Evo to go home. The Evo felt smaller, FAR lighter on the controls, and with mongoose-like responses and nimbleness bordering on nervousness--but I've slung the Evo down enough curvy roads to know that it isn't really a "nervous" car...it responds very quickly to small inputs, but it's pretty much like a Superman suit in what it will do for you--and let you get away with--if you have even the slightest idea of what you're doing from behind the wheel.

^ Yeah, I'd agree...not bloated, but a little disconnected...but probably only when compared with the most tactile, response machinery (Evo and your 911 probably each being towards the top of that list)

[Edited on June 11, 2010 at 3:55 PM. Reason : despite your complaints about Evo steering feel, which I've never agreed with]

[Edited on June 11, 2010 at 3:56 PM. Reason : ]

6/11/2010 3:51:42 PM

is this thread about being denied the opportunity to test drive a car you intend to evaluate for serious purchase

or test driving cars you just want to drive and have no intention of buying?

if the latter.

wow, that is fucking gay.

6/11/2010 3:56:06 PM

If you read even the VERY FIRST post you'd know the answer to that one

6/11/2010 4:20:39 PM

^^I sort of have to agree with that, even though I don't think there's anything wrong with checking out a car if you make your intentions clear from the get go.

Duke, I'll admit something to you; even under hard driving, I've never experienced slip from the front tires of an Evo, where steering crispness would come into focus more. The way I'm used to/prefer driving has me mostly oversteering the Evo. Everything works well enough that controlling the car's second nature, and I have a smile on my face at all times. It's a great car, and great fun. My biggest complaint was probably it's throttle response (non-linear power build up, imprecise control/modulation) and not the steering feedback. As for the steering feedback... I'm used to e36 M3s, 944 turbos, and 911s. Those are cars I consider true, refined sports cars. Most people who've driven those will agree that they are the very best from a steering feedback perspective. Also, it's been over a year since I've driven an Evo.

BTW, I don't currently own a 911. My ONLY car is a 1986 VW GTI.

[Edited on June 11, 2010 at 4:26 PM. Reason : more posts before mine!]

6/11/2010 4:26:11 PM

Quote :

"The reason I'm looking at Corvettes is because I get the GM supplier discount, which is about 10% off the invoice price in addition to their regional offers (currently $3,000 back or 0% financing for 60 months"

...so what does that make the OTD price for a Grand Sport 'Vette?

6/11/2010 4:28:58 PM

Quote :

"My biggest complaint was probably it's throttle response (non-linear power build up, imprecise control/modulation)"

Yeah, I'll buy that. It's not bad, I guess, considering how much boost it uses to make its power, but yeah, I know what you mean.

Fortunately, the car doesn't really care very much, haha. It's not like the handling balance is especially sensitive to throttle inputs. It's pretty happy to take less-than-surgical applications of power and carry about its business at stupid speeds (as opposed to my S2000, or I'm sure a 911, which will have you checking out where you just came from in short order if you're not judicious with the throttle. The Evo isn't all that unhappy about the driver unleashing holy hell with the accelerator and just continuing to crank in steering).

Quote :

"I've never experienced slip from the front tires of an Evo, where steering crispness would come into focus more."

I have definitely had significant slip in the front end (and the back end...and both ends). I think my last comment above is why your concern doesn't matter so much in this car: it's the only car I've ever driven where even when the front end starts to push, you can just dial in more and more steering, and it will continue to tighten its line, up to completely absurd slip angles. It might be hamfisted, but it will definitely do it...and you can get on the throttle HARD and EARLY.

6/11/2010 4:46:04 PM

Quote :

"...so what does that make the OTD price for a Grand Sport 'Vette?"

A Grand Sport 2LT coupe is $49,528 + Tax (~$1700 in NC) + Title/Tags (I believe that's $65 or so in NC) + the dealer's rape-you-in-the-ass ("doc"/"admin") fee which is $0-$500 depending on the dealer. Approximately $53k or 3k more if you want 0% financing. A convertible actually works out to about the same price.

The discount varies, especially on the options. Some options get no discount, others get pretty good discounts.

6/11/2010 8:49:31 PM

Quote :

"Torque doesn't mean much of anything, from a sports car/high performance car standpoint. Drag racers need it to an extent, but even then, power is what counts, once you pass a certain level of low-end torque. Big power is what counts."

Torque helps bad drivers and bad setups...

hp is the rate torque is being applied the more hp the faster torque is being applied...

but then again a torque-less car like an s2000 if you're in too high of gear you're f*cked and not going anywhere fast.... if the driver isn't in the right gear the car isn't forgiving.

but when it comes down to it a 20000rpm motor with no torque and oodles of hp should be able to be geared to be faster than a 2000 rpm motor with oodles of torque and no hp also the 2000rpm motor won't matter what gear its in... it will go the same speed of slow no matter what gear its in...

6/11/2010 10:31:24 PM

in regards to dealers I've been a bit spoiled because we've always bought stuff through our fleet dealer in GSO, Piedmont Ford Truck if any of yall every need one... anyways they don't waste your time with all the pricing dance bs that I didn't know existed till I tried to help my mom-in-law buy a car. she had to have a toyota (because all chinese people drive toyotas she tells me) but anyways we went to the big toyota place in Raleigh... what a bunch of crooks. We test drove a camry, she had already decided she'd buy a camry so it was a waste of time. we went in to get a price and the guy ask what we wanted to pay for the car, I asked "what's the price" started all this crap about what we want for monthly payments, I restated "price?" he said "don't you have any input?" to which I again asked for a price.. he goest to the manager, comes back with a price, I said thanks we'll let you know, then he says don't you want to counter offer? I said it never cross my mind, I figured you'd give me the best price to start with... he wanted us to wait and let him talk to the manager to see what it would be if we'd take it to night... came back lower, I said no thanks and we'll let you know, he said he wanted to go back one more time I said sure go... now each time he went it'd be 10-15min... so this time when he went I told the wife/mom/sister lets go. she'd bought the car that night if they'd dispense with the BS.

6/11/2010 10:47:16 PM

Ive never really had any problems driving what I wanted to drive including a brand new STi when they first came out. Got lucky with that one a bit though, some idiot bought one kept it for all of a month and then traded it back, so they werent afraid to let people drive it. Never have stepped into a BMW or exotic dealer though but I expect if I dressed appropriately it wouldnt be a prob.

Anyway, the main thing that almost always sucks at dealers is I generally know more about what they are selling than the salesmen do.

6/12/2010 7:47:21 AM

I took a 135i out for a drive one time, and was given the keys to a Z4M coupe (but the battery was dead and it was closing time for the dealership)...but that's because my dad's known the sales manager for decades and bought probably at least a half-dozen cars there.


Of course you know more about the cars than the salesmen. No need to be bothered by that--the bothersome part is that you don't need him or really benefit from him as a middleman, but he's still going to collect a commission, which interferes with your bottom line.

6/12/2010 7:59:01 AM

^ agreed. If they are going to collect the commission they should at least know SOMETHING about what they are selling.

6/12/2010 9:04:18 PM

well, my bigger issue is that I don't need for him to know anything about what he's selling. i don't need him at all...i'd rather just negotiate a deal with the sales manager without paying anyone commission, but that's probably not possible.

...and i always buy used, anyway

6/13/2010 1:39:49 AM

Quote :

"well, my bigger issue is that I don't need for him to know anything about what he's selling. i don't need him at all...i'd rather just negotiate a deal with the sales manager without paying anyone commission, but that's probably not possible. ...and i always buy used, anyway"

I negotiated directly with the sales manager when I bought my Lexus. Then he assigned the deal to sales guy to wait with me for f/i and to go over some paperwork. The sales consultant had the easiest sale of his life that day

6/13/2010 1:44:27 AM

bump

9/17/2010 3:16:20 PM

I had no problem test driving a Corvette at a dealer I tried in SC. Picked up a shiny yellow C6 convertible.

Too bad they don't make convertibles with LS7's. I'm debating whether or not I want to supercharge it. I like the Edelbrock E-Force, but I don't want to invalidate the warranty.



[Edited on September 17, 2010 at 3:45 PM. Reason : It has the Z51 package of course.]

9/17/2010 3:42:11 PM

^how many pedals?

9/17/2010 3:46:56 PM

The only appropriate number: 3. Only old people buy sports cars with automatic transmissions. No, I don't care for the paddle-shifters.

Also, the HUD is great with the factory navigation. Turn-by-turn directions right on the windshield. I'm not terribly impressed with XM though.

Got a Corsa axle-back exhaust and put an aftermarket cold-air intake on it. Averaged over 32 mpg driving from Wilmington to Durham, which I am impressed with. I don't think headers or high-flow cats will hurt the warranty so that is next on my agenda.

[Edited on September 17, 2010 at 3:59 PM. Reason : ...]

9/17/2010 3:54:24 PM

how much?

9/17/2010 4:13:37 PM

Too much. It's a 3LT with Z51 and navigation.

9/17/2010 5:39:23 PM

Congrats on your purchase! Though I have to wonder, if you're lamenting the lack of power (compared to a Z06) then why didn't you look for a Z06 instead? Or were you dead set on a convertible?

9/17/2010 6:32:15 PM

You should drive it to the first couple of dealerships, tell the owner you just bought this in SC because they were a bunch of pencildicks who wouldn't give you the time of day.

9/17/2010 7:26:49 PM

^^I'd rather have the convertible than the Z06 for the sake money, but wouldn't it be nice to have both?

^I considered it but it's not worth going out of my way for. Maybe if I happen to drive by one of the dealers.

9/17/2010 10:31:14 PM

Quote :

"I don't think headers or high-flow cats will hurt the warranty"

They shouldn't, but they often will.

9/17/2010 11:08:28 PM

I heard that's only true if you retune it.

9/17/2010 11:56:05 PM

just came back from driving a new 412hp mustang GT. impressive power from new engine. Steering is way too light. Suspension is too soft, albeit comfortable and while nice, new interior is too busy. Under the hood view is pretty

9/18/2010 3:47:17 PM

^^^The Z06 is supposed to be the hard edged track version of the Corvette. Thus they'll never make a convertible version of it.

9/18/2010 5:15:51 PM

Quote :

"Averaged over 32 mpg driving from Wilmington to Durham"

why bother with a performance car and upgrades if you're gonna try to get good mileage

9/18/2010 8:38:47 PM

Quote :

"3. Only old people buy sports cars with automatic transmissions"

or gimp leg faggots like bbr

9/18/2010 8:57:14 PM

Quote :

"why bother with a performance car and upgrades if you're gonna try to get good mileage"

Who said I was trying? I just said I was impressed with it.

9/18/2010 11:56:09 PM

^yeah, not like it's a bad thing to have your cake and eat it too.

9/19/2010 12:23:46 AM

Vet really is a lot of car for the $

9/19/2010 3:05:41 PM

Quote :

"just came back from driving a new 412hp mustang GT. impressive power from new engine. Steering is way too light. Suspension is too soft, albeit comfortable and while nice, new interior is too busy. Under the hood view is pretty "

Boss 302 package will have a more sport tuned suspension

I was at one of those car shows at the Chargrill on Atlantic Ave. There was a new 5.0 there. Some muscle car geezers were looking under the hood and talking about their own prehistoric carb'd 302's. One old guy points to a coil pack and says "that's the fuel injector."

[Edited on September 19, 2010 at 7:31 PM. Reason : .]

9/19/2010 7:30:04 PM