2 easy to fix, says Toyota!

Quote :

"Toyota announced a voluntary recall on Monday for some 9,400 Lexus GX 460 SUVs for wheel slippage that could occur during high speed turns. The company acted quickly in stopping sales of the GX after Consumer Reports gave the SUV a Do Not Buy rating following its own tests that showed the big SUV had trouble maintaining composure during high speed maneuvers. Toyota's press release at the time stated the recall involves reprogramming software in the Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) system. We weren't sure how long it would take Toyota to develop a software patch, but apparently it didn't take long at all. The main culprit appears to be the fact that the fuel tank is located on the left side of the vehicle. A full tank of gas plus the weight of a driver in left-hand-drive vehicle could result in some hairy handling when taking right turns at high speed. That is, at least, before Toyota's software fix for the VSC system. Follow the jump to see the effect a little reprogramming has on how a vehicle behaves. In the video, two Lexus SUVs take a right turn at 59 miles per hour. One puts on an impromptu drifting session and the other makes it through just fine. We'll let you guess which one had its VSC reprogrammed."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDTeOUu-w4E

4/21/2010 9:48:10 PM

Quote :

"i was just thinking about how the ford/firestone fiasco of 2000 killed more people (over 100, while affecting fewer cars) than the toyota accelerator problem (fewer than 10, and the only "proven" ones are those relating to the floor mats issue) and yet a VP of toyota has been required to attend THREE congressional hearings, while ford was allowed to send a no-name rep to the SINGLE congressional hearing required at the time i suspect it's a combination of "well, now that we own GM, it couldn't HURT to smear toyota a little" and "well, balls, i suppose we should do SOMETHING before the public gets all pissy that people are dying""

Wasn't that more of a tire issue?

Also, its noteworthy to point out that in that situation as well poor driving skill contributed to vehicle accidents (a blowout alone won't cause a crash).

4/22/2010 8:59:59 AM

Quote :

"Wasn't that more of a tire issue?"

yes and no (as i recall, anyway)...ford didn't require firestone to include a nylon layer (again, i think) in their tires to keep costs down...also, due to the propensity for the explorers (and mazda/mercury versions) to roll, they reduced their tire pressure recommendation to 26 or something fairly low, against firestone's recommendation

i think it was a combination of poor tire quality (though whether it was firestone cutting corners on their own or at the request of ford to keep the costs low, i don't think anyone knows) and poor design on ford's part (the rolling issue is what started the whole thing)

Quote :

"Also, its noteworthy to point out that in that situation as well poor driving skill contributed to vehicle accidents (a blowout alone won't cause a crash)."

that's true...but i would consider the toyota issue the same...unintended acceleration should be easily solved by applying the brake and/or shutting off the car and/or shifting into neutral...i realize that's part of the contention in the toyota case, but unless i'm mistaken, there's no EVIDENCE to suggest that any of those 3 solutions to the stuck pedal issue don't work

rather, it's poor driving skill and/or reactions under pressure that exacerbated the underlying problems

4/22/2010 9:25:28 AM

^thanks for refreshing my memory on the Ford issue, I forgot about the underinflated part. and I agree with you about Toyota.

4/22/2010 9:47:15 AM

people ride around all day long with underinflated tires and they don't explode..and if they do give out, it's easily controllable. you can make any suv roll over, with or without underinflated tires, if you drive like an idiot and crank the steering wheel left and right while speeding and talking on your phone. it wasn't fords fault. that's my stance.

4/22/2010 1:14:23 PM

Quote :

"people ride around all day long with underinflated tires and they don't explode"

what you're forgetting, though, is that they recommended that they be underinflated from the BEGINNING...while 26psi (or whatever it was) might have been tolerable, as you've noted, people ride around with underinflated tires all the time...so it didn't take much for them to become dangerously low when they started out low to begin with

Quote :

"and if they do give out, it's easily controllable."

you and i might be able to control it, but you and i would have stopped our toyotas from accelerating uncontrollably and causing firey crashes using one of the 3 methods mentioned above...just because something is common sense and feasible in theory doesn't make it second nature or a gut reaction in practice

Quote :

"you can make any suv roll over, with or without underinflated tires, if you drive like an idiot and crank the steering wheel left and right while speeding and talking on your phone."

be that as it may, the affected models were poorly designed...with "normally" inflated tires, they were prone to rolling more than any other SUV at the time...at some point, when the level of bad driving becomes minimal to make a vehicle roll, it moves from driver error to poor manufacturer design

Quote :

"it wasn't fords fault. that's my stance."

by themselves, no, i don't think it was entirely their fault...but they had an admittedly poor design for their explorers and they definitely recommended what was an unarguably low pressure in their tires...even if you assume firestone was lying about ford requesting they fudge on the tire design in order to cut costs, ford had a known issue that they decided to rectify by creating another issue...those mistakes combined with crap tires made for a dangerous situation and neither party was exempt from fault

4/22/2010 1:52:17 PM

Quote :

"also, due to the propensity for the explorers (and mazda/mercury versions) to roll, they reduced their tire pressure recommendation to 26 or something fairly low, against firestone's recommendation"

I think it was more to mitigate the trucklike-ride of an SUV, bought by people who really wanted a car and just didn't know it.

4/22/2010 2:45:18 PM

Quote :

"I think it was more to mitigate the trucklike-ride of an SUV, bought by people who really wanted a car and just didn't know it."

maybe, but i don't think so:

Quote :

"Above 30 psi, Explorers can go out of control easier during extreme maneuvers, he says. That's because the more-responsive steering that generally comes with higher pressures can cause the vehicle to swerve wildly when a panicked driver yanks on the steering wheel during an emergency. He says Ford's policy, therefore, is to specify tire pressures as low as possible that don't compromise hauling ability. "Sometimes you want the steering to be a little bit on the lazy side, for safety," Baughman says."

the original usa today article from then: http://www.usatoday.com/money/consumer/autos/mauto771.htm

4/22/2010 3:48:47 PM

About 10 days ago, CR lifted the warning, and Toyota resumed sales.

And now this:

Report: Lexus preparing to recall 11,500 LS models globally over slow-to-return steering

Quote :

"Bloomberg is reporting that Toyota will again be bit by the recall bug, this time due to steering problems with its Lexus LS 460, LS 460L, LS 600h and LS 600h L. The recall, reportedly announced by Toyota spokesperson Mieko Iwasaki, will cover 11,500 models globally, including 3,800 units in the States. The company says that some customers in Japan have complained that the front wheels don't turn to their original position quickly enough after executing a turn, and the issue is reportedly both mechanical and software related"

And there have been other recalls in the past few months of a few models (other than the acceleration issue).

Did some fucking retarded monkeys take over manufacturing and design at Toyota in the past few years or so? They used to be the gold standard for manufacturing perfection.


P.S. Another very relevant headline:

Done Deal: Toyota wires $16M fine payment to U.S. Treasury

Quote :

"Toyota has officially handed over every last cent of its $16.4 million fine for not notifying the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration of potential defects in a timely manner. That figure marks the largest fine possible under the law, though by paying it, the Japanese automaker has somehow managed to skip out on admitting any wrong doing. "

[Edited on May 19, 2010 at 6:27 PM. Reason : ]

5/19/2010 6:21:32 PM

CR has retested the GX, looks like pretty big difference:
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/05/video-lexus-gx-460-passes-retest-consumer-reports-lifts-dont-buy-label.html

5/24/2010 8:22:14 PM

I, for one, would be way more worried about the brake failures under severe use on the 370z that have been documented by Car & Driver than a Toyota where the floormat might snag the accelerator, or an LX-460 that can be provoked into lift throttle oversteer.

If the throttle sticks in a Toyota, you can move the floormat, possibly unstick the pedal with your foot, shift into neutral, depress the clutch if it's a manual, or turn the engine off. I've had throttles stick like this on several occasions, even as a brand-new teenage driver, and I made it out just fine every time.

If you manage to spin an LX-460, it's because you're an utterly incompetent motorist, not because the truck is at fault. You don't need more conservatively tuned suspension or stability management (which is a crutch to begin with--it's a sad state that we're to the point that an idiot can fuck up severely enough to overwhelm the nannies that he shouldn't even need, then blame the vehicle for not saving him from himself.)--you need a tricycle.

If you find yourself without brakes in a 370z, you are fucked unless you have a long way to coast (and downshift) before you need to slow significantly in order to make a corner or avoid hitting something.

5/29/2010 11:06:20 AM

it wasn't the floor mats

5/29/2010 12:03:17 PM

Duke, I'd agree with you but keep in mind your average snooze mobile Toyota/Lexus is under braked to begin with, imagine full throttle (which means loosing vacuum boost to the brakes), which will fade those brakes to oblivion rather quickly. Couple that with a gated shifter +a weird sequence to shut off the car when it's in gear/at speed, and you may have a problem...

Also, the Lexus LX-460 probably doesn't have very high cornering/handling limits to begin with. It spins when you're on the brakes and turning, exactly the scenario I imagine most soccer moms will experience pulling onto an off ramp that unexpectedly tightens up or has traffic on it.

5/31/2010 8:58:32 PM

It is GX, not LX.

Anyway....

BREAKING: Toyota admits 270,000 cars have faulty engines worldwide

Quote :

"In 20 years, odds are few people will remember that 2010 was one of the worst years for Toyota in terms of recalls, but for now, it seems like the company just can't win for losing. The company has announced that it is currently preparing to recall a total of 270,000 Toyota Crown and Lexus LS, GS and IS models worldwide. As it turns out, some of the company's 4.6-liter V8 and 3.5-liter V6 engines were built using faulty valve springs that may cause the car to stall while driving. Around 180,000 of the faulty powerplants were sold outside of Japan. According to The Wall Street Journal, the company says that some Toyota Crown, Lexus LS460, Lexus LS600h, Lexus LS600hL, Lexus GS350, Lexus GS450h, Lexus GS460 and Lexus IS350 models will be affected by the recall, and that it will initiate a procedure to fix the problem as soon as it can figure out a way to do so with the least amount of inconvenience to its customers. The news comes as Toyota continues to try to put this year's bevy of recall issues behind it, including paying a $16.4 million fine to the U.S. government for delaying certain recalls."

And from last week


Lexus recalls HS250h over risk of excessive fuel leakage

Quote :

"Back in the 1970s, the Ford Pinto was the focus of many headlines due to a fuel tank issue which caused excessive amounts of gasoline to leak during a rear-end collision. Now, three decades later, Lexus is having a similar problem with its HS250h hybrid, and has filed a report with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to issue a voluntary recall of these vehicles. Up to 17,000 of the luxury hybrids are affected."

I said this in May, and I will repeat it here again:

Quote :

"Did some fucking retarded monkeys take over manufacturing and design at Toyota in the past few years or so? They used to be the gold standard for manufacturing perfection."

7/1/2010 10:37:41 AM

sounds to me like they're just being paranoid, recalling anything that could even conceivably in some far-fetched scenario cause a problem, out of fear of getting crucified if something else went wrong and they knew that it was a potential issue.

7/1/2010 11:02:27 AM