2/28/2010 9:58:25 PM
No because this particular kitchen is probably costing the ceo something like 10 dollars. He's simply stealing the other 30 from the cook just because he owns the means to cook and the cook can't afford to buy his own means. Kind of like having a monopoly on the means of production except instead of one person its an entire class with this monopoly. The working class does all the work and people who own the means of production steal a good amount of thier wages.
2/28/2010 10:46:00 PM
2/28/2010 11:07:38 PM
I know thats how it works but I'm saying it isn't right because until a company runs without profit, money will alwyas be stolen from the working class to make the high ups fat. If the cook truly loves cooking he will stay a cook. If the cook is greedy, conniving and sly, yes he will try and move up.
2/28/2010 11:25:00 PM
2/28/2010 11:26:35 PM
2/28/2010 11:43:39 PM
profit is being extracted from somewhere. either unfair wages unfair prices or some other type of exploitation. profit just doesn't come out of the blue.
2/28/2010 11:50:45 PM
3/1/2010 12:00:36 AM
3/1/2010 12:11:03 AM
3/1/2010 12:12:22 AM
3/1/2010 12:29:23 AM
First off, I'm not working with the imaginary math of the bakery example here, I don't want to have to scan back through the thread. Additionally I am going to use the term "owner" rather than CEO, as a CEO does produce labor and add value, just as the cook does.
3/1/2010 12:55:13 AM
3/1/2010 12:55:56 AM
3/1/2010 12:58:09 AM
3/1/2010 1:15:43 AM
because if you read the bold the customers could be paying 80 as opposed to your "great low competitive 93" AND the cook could be making double of what hes making right now.
3/1/2010 1:46:44 AM
3/1/2010 7:53:46 AM
page 2 and no one has reposted
3/1/2010 8:45:33 AM
It's no mystery why Christians aren't communists. Just look at every practical application of communism that's ever existed.I'm more interested in why many of them view capitalism as inherently moral.
3/1/2010 10:12:16 AM
^ None that I know. But on watching many documentaries from Europe, they have socialist-christian political parties over there.
3/1/2010 10:31:28 AM
Actually, there were a large number of Christian communes here in the United States that emerged in the late 19th century, a response to both some of the new ideas of socialism and communism during a period of traumatic social change (Industrial Revolution). There still are these sorts of large collective communities around the nation. The difference of course between these Christian communes versus a communist state was that membership in the former was voluntary (which is why many failed as people decided it wasn't for them and bailed) while the latter was imposed by force on the entire nation.
3/1/2010 10:38:48 AM
^^ I'm referring to what a number of national figures have been saying. Essentially, that what they consider to be "socialism" is directly anti-Christian.
3/1/2010 10:41:35 AM
3/1/2010 10:56:36 AM
^^^ Quite right. Christianity calls for a form of voluntary socialism. Jesus never pulled a knife on anyone, he argued, cajoled, and led by example. Kris and mambagrl want the men with guns to make things their way, a profoundly unchristian thing to do.
3/1/2010 11:04:34 AM
3/1/2010 11:06:42 AM
3/1/2010 1:11:05 PM
3/1/2010 1:25:42 PM
Ladies and gentlemen... I've traveled over half our state to be here tonight. I couldn't get away sooner because my new bakery was coming in at Coyote Hills and I had to see about it. That bakery is now flowing at two thousand cakes and it's paying me an income of five thousand dollars a week. I have two others baking and I have sixteen producing at Antelope. So, ladies and gentlemen... if I say I'm a cake man you will agree. You have a great chance here, but bear in mind, you can lose it all if you're not careful. Out of all men that beg for a chance to bake your cakes, maybe one in twenty will be cakemen; the rest will be speculators-that's men trying to get between you and the cakemen-to get some of the money that ought by rights come to you. Even if you find one that has money, and means to bake, he'll maybe know nothing about baking and he'll have to hire out the job on contract, and then you're depending on a contractor that's trying to rush the job through so he can get another contract just as quick as he can. This is... the way that this works.
3/1/2010 1:56:44 PM
3/1/2010 6:37:32 PM
3/1/2010 9:09:52 PM
3/1/2010 10:11:17 PM
3/2/2010 11:17:19 AM
3/2/2010 11:29:08 AM
3/2/2010 12:59:17 PM
3/2/2010 1:17:29 PM
3/2/2010 1:33:12 PM
You really need to have a conversation with a government employee sometime. But no system operates without profits. The only difference is that government managers greedily seek power and influence, what political scientists call fiefdom building. You have yet to learn that all human beings are self interested and greedy for power, regardless of their job title.
3/2/2010 6:10:10 PM
Thats a false statement. We've just all been conditioned by the way things work now to be greedy and self interested because we live in a country that rewards greed. If we lived in a society that rewarded helping others then things could be different. Thats why punishing self interest (progressive taxation) is something I'll always be interested in. Naturally, we are a communal tribal species, its not until young kids learn about/experience scarcity that they become selfish.
3/2/2010 6:37:46 PM
3/2/2010 6:48:41 PM
3/2/2010 7:23:54 PM
This thread was funnier when religion was involved.Anyway, rich people are rich because they make the best use of their time, money, resources, credit and contacts. Also, many are born into it.
3/2/2010 9:20:06 PM
Easy, find the nearest toddlers and put one in a room with 10 packs of cookies. then show him to a room with only one pack and another toddler. he will share the cookies with the cookies with the new toddler, let him have them all or might even lead him to the room with all the cookies. Somone that understands scarcity and capitalism would easily try to get as many cookies as possible out of this pack or take them back to his stash.
3/2/2010 9:55:31 PM
Odd. I'm as capitalist as they come, yet when I enter a room with other people and find cookies, I share them too. Is it because I have never been shown scarcity? Or might it be that both me and toddlers were taught to share as children lest we be perceived as greedy jerks and die unmarried and friendless? The rules of capitalism tell us how things are to be produced. They do not tell us how things are to be consumed. If you have a friend that has lost their job and is down on their luck, invite their family over for dinner. If they can no longer afford their home, get the guest bedroom ready. That is the Christian thing to do. It would be unchristian in the extreme for them to proclaim you are earning too much and that you must give them your house.
3/2/2010 11:45:57 PM
Fine produce wealth in capitalism and then share its consumption.
3/2/2010 11:53:51 PM
3/3/2010 1:14:48 AM
3/3/2010 1:28:13 AM
3/3/2010 8:37:31 AM
3/3/2010 11:21:36 AM
3/3/2010 12:12:25 PM
The USPS is not funded by taxpayers, by the way. The only federal funds they get are reimbursements for shit like free postage for blind people.[Edited on March 3, 2010 at 12:53 PM. Reason : ...]
3/3/2010 12:53:10 PM