There is scientific evidence (or hell, just using a logical train of though for that matter) that praying doesn't do a damn thing. Even if there were some sort of supernatural being that lands you an interview, what about all of the prayers that go unanswered? How does that fit into the whole religion thing? And don't give me "it's all part of god's plan!!!111"

That's just one of my many gripes w/ religion

8/6/2009 9:43:40 PM

that's very insightful of you

8/6/2009 9:44:12 PM

Thanks for the sarcastic response...funny how no one can ever give a reasonable response to that without the sarcastic bullshit

But hey, if you want to keep fooling yourself, who am I to try and stop you...right?

[Edited on August 6, 2009 at 9:47 PM. Reason : .]

8/6/2009 9:45:54 PM

God is very stochastic when it comes to His response to prayers.

8/6/2009 10:57:39 PM

Or, maybe God just likes some people more than others. Maybe he thinks you kind of suck.

8/6/2009 11:01:57 PM

Also a distinct possibility.

8/6/2009 11:09:13 PM

8/6/2009 11:26:53 PM

Can't help but think what his daily routine of going over his prayer list looks like

1. GoldenGirl: "Please god, I would like to do well on my upcoming interview"
God: "Of course! I'll see what I can do"

2. One of many villages in Africa on brink of starvation: "God...do you think you could help us out with our crops this year so we won't starve again?"
God: "No you bastards!!!!11 Prayer denied."

[Edited on August 7, 2009 at 12:01 AM. Reason : ,]

8/6/2009 11:57:52 PM

8/7/2009 1:12:19 AM

i have to agree that the efficacy of prayer is negligible.

but kudzu jesus is kinda cool.

8/7/2009 1:18:16 AM

I'd like prayers for things to not go well with GoldenGirl's upcoming interviews and getting other interviews.

8/7/2009 10:05:59 AM

Did I just stumble into chit chat?

8/7/2009 10:13:31 AM

I found this for those of you who there there is this "god" man

"In the following argument of nine premises, I will aim to convince you that Jesus of Nazareth was a fictional character, and not a real person. I do not intend to sway the beliefs of many of you, nor even budge them - I know this to be an impossibility, for if the religious mind is well-trained at anything, it is circumventing rational argument. I only intend to sew seeds of doubt, in the hopes that perhaps some of you will nurture them and let them grow. Here goes.

1. Much, if not most, of the Bible is arguably fiction. Quit being so intellectually dishonest, Christians - this is the twenty-first century. That means the burden of proof is on YOU. If you make a claim about the universe, it is up to you to prove it is true, not the other way around. It is not up to us, the rest of the world, to prove your claims false - that is not scientific thinking, that is anti-scientific thinking. Because I am a man of my times, and believe in correcting ignorance, what I am doing here is out of courtesy to YOU, just as if I were to argue publicly that there is a Flying Spaghetti Monster orbiting Venus preparing to blow up Planet Earth, one of you would probably, out of simple human decency attempt to correct me and point me towards the truth. This is my way of doing that. Now, back to the Bible being fiction... that part's easy. Find me a snake with vocal chords, water that is dense enough for a human being to walk on, or a chemical process that converts complex carbohydrates to fish. Until then, you're out of luck, sucker. The evidence wins, and the evidence sides with me. These are invented stories... fictional dramas meant to impart some moral lesson. They are not real.

2. Following point two: from an objective, scrutinizing view, there is no reason to believe one story in the Bible over another. We cannot honestly engage shades of truth here - either the books in the Bible are historically true or they are not. Since they almost ubiquitously contain material to make the scientific person skeptical, we can chance to say the same is true of the entire book: either it happened, or it didn't. Therefore, it is no less plausible to disbelieve the Jesus myth than the myth about Enoch the nine-hundred year old man or the creation myth wherein God pats the first humans out of clay. Here's a hint: humans, like all other complex organisms, reached their present condition by millions of years of natural selection through the self-preservation of certain greedy genes. We can observe this happening today; anti-biotic resistant bacteria are a good example. Plus, we've mapped the human genome - we know our ancestry, and it's simian. Even Pope John Paul II said evolution is a historical fact. People did not come from clay.

3. By definition, intellect, or "reason" is the ability to revise one's beliefs in light of better argumentation. Taking simple, empirical data from the the world around you should make it easy to determine that the physical laws of the universe DO NOT CHANGE. It therefore stands to reason that "miracles" can only possible be one of two phenomena: A, an outside agent actually interfering with the laws of the universe; or B, hyperbolized coincidences. Considering the Bible was written in a time when allegory was the most common form of journalistic reporting and most people still believed spitting on a wound was an appropriate way to cure it, it is far more reasonable to assume the latter.

*Side note: Seriously Hoss, let me clue you in on something: things that are impossible to do now - like walking on water, resuscitation after days of biological death, and wine magically turning into blood - were just as impossible 2,000 years ago. There's a much greater power in the universe than "belief." It's called "observation."

4. To believe these stories, you must create strange rationalizations that do not hold up to true intellectual scrutiny. This brings us to the issue of honesty. Without deluding yourself, can you honestly answer the following questions? Such as, why doesn't God heal amputees? He heals everyone else miraculously, right? But neither you nor I have ever seen an amputee grow back a leg. Oh wait, God has a special plan for them. But isn't he supposed to be loving and just? What's with the discrimination, man? Or how about Jonah surviving in the belly of that whale? Wouldn't he be partially digested after three days? Maybe Baby Balooga had a slow metabolism?

5. Following four, and this one is my favorite: if Jesus is the one true messiah, the only God, whom you shall hath no other gods before him, yada yada, how come so many gods DID come before him having nearly identical biographies? There are no less than two dozen god-men of the ancient Mediterranean whose birth was heralded by a bright star in the East (Sirius, for those who don't practice astronomy), who were also adored by wise men, walked on water, fed the hungry, resurrected the dead, were crucified and rose again, etc. Many even had the same birthday as Jesus - December 25th! Not coincidentally, this was the Roman Holiday of Saturnalia centuries before the clergy decided to call it Jesus' birthday. Surprise! Christians plagiarized earlier religions. I cannot spell it out any clearer than that. Knowing that, how can one believe anything Christian doctrine teaches? How do you even begin to separate what was invented from what was borrowed? You don't. The cold, hard truth is, it was an old story then, and it's an old story now. These messianic archetypes - the man that is god, the man who conquers death - existed long, long before Jesus came around. They were old news when soap was a cutting-edge technology, before written language was even invented. They are ancient fucking history. Jesus was not the antitype of these messianic figures, he was their distillation.
"

8/7/2009 1:29:24 PM

"7. Following point 6. If you are skeptical of this information (and you should be, as doubt is the seed of all knowing), investigate the matter for yourself. One hugely recurring problem I find when debating with Christians is that they either know very little about other religions or are ignorant of their existence entirely. This is counter-intuitive to me, and perhaps my own fault in failing to understand the religious mind. Shouldn't it be fairly crucial to make the most educated decision in choosing a religion, if practicing the "right" one is important to you? For example, you wouldn't want to choose a religion based on plagiarism, would you? Or one that literally absorbed every earlier belief system it encountered through endless politicizing or the diplomacy of the sword? Well, better crack those books then - there's a whole heap of gods who fit the Christ mold long before Christ. I suggest you begin by researching Mithra of Rome, Attis of Frigia, Dionysis of Greece, Krishna of India, and Horus of Egypt. The last should be of particular interest to you, as his mythology is almost an exact carbon copy of Jesus', right down to the twelve apostles and three-day rebound time after being murdered by jealous clergy. Though, I should point out that Horus was worshipped nearly 1000 years BEFORE Christianity began spreading through the Hebrew-populated Roman colonies. This should come as no surprise to you, as it's written right in the bible that the Hebrews came out of Egypt.

8. On a more serious note. Western civilization may have been "built" on Judeo-Christian values (at least the "don't kill" and "don't steal" parts), but we have become a modern society and have adopted the scientific way of thinking. While the aforementioned values have indisputable merits, maintaining the dogma in its entirety is no longer necessary, especially when we consider the violence and segregation it has caused throughout the ages. Furthermore, philosophically speaking, Christian ethics are severely outdated. Since the Enlightenment, the Western World has seen far superior ethicists to Jesus of Nazareth. Kant and Mill, for example, created life-affirming ethical systems that can be applied to a wider range of people without destroying their culture or beliefs about where the universe came from and what kind of sex they should consider perverse. Truly, there is no reason to cling to the old way any longer. We have adopted science and reason in every other aspect of our lives... yet somehow we have retained Bronze Age ethics? It makes no sense. Why should we continue to believe it is better to be tribalists than to be humanists? This mentality is not compatible with a just, egalitarian society. Besides, Jesus may tell us to love one another, but he also says we should maintain the Old Testament in its entirety - no cherry-picking - which means we technically must condone rape, incest, slavery, and genocide (!). If we can do away with these parts (and we have), why not do away with the whole thing?

9. In the grand scheme of things, it would be generally permissible for one to believe in Christian ethics if it were readily understood that Jesus was not a historical person, and the story is allegory. However, if you are a Christian, you probably do believe that Jesus was a real human being. This is a threat to both the advancement of science and the absolution of religious conflict in the world, two issues that are paramount to our survival as a species as our planet nears carrying capacity and is dangerously on the brink of overheating. It creates too slippery a slope for other theocratic nonsense to take hold; for example, tthe mindset that human beings can literally live after death (how many soldiers would we send to die if everyone believed this is the only life?); or that preserving the existence of cell clusters which bear no conceivable human traits is somehow a better aim than alleviating actual human suffering; or that sex is harmful, but killing, bigotry, and total obedience to clandestine authority are healthy practices; or that blood sacrifice is a value modern societies should endorse. But Jesus WAS a real person, you say! There's a plethora of evidence! No, not really, outside of the gospels. And those hardly count as "evidence." They are secondary sources at best. Here's why: if a historical Jesus really lived and died between 0 and 33 CE, then we know beyond a doubt that at least forty years passed before the earliest gospel - the one written by Mark - was scribed. Because the aforementioned gospel discusses the destruction of Solomon's temple, we know it was written in or sometime after 70 CE. Given the lifespan of the period, that means the author or authors were at best infants or young children when Jesus of Nazareth was supposed to have been crucified. Moreover, the gospel writers are not themselves mentioned in the gospels, and they make no claim to actually having met Jesus. None of the apostles who walked with Jesus nor anyone who even met him wrote accounts to that effect. Granted, there are certain mentions of a "Christ" in the writings of Mediterranean historians from that period (not Justin Martyr or Pontius Pilate - sorry, but those are proven forgeries). However, if are a serious Christian, these should be of little consideration to you, as you know "the Christ" is really a title that simply means "the Anointed," and was taken up by many rabbis of that time. In not ONE of these documents is a man named Jesus, or Yeshua of Nazareth mentioned.


In conclusion, the gospels which discuss the life of Jesus of Nazareth are at best hearsay, almost certainly hyperbolized, and at worst complete fabrications. What we can determine beyond a doubt is that for at least four decades after his death, everyone in the world, including his sworn followers and students, simply forgot their messiah existed. If that doesn't cast on you a serious shade of doubt, then nothing will, and perhaps I'm not "the fool". "

8/7/2009 1:29:48 PM

Quote :

"Hi. You're probably new to the Wolf Web. In fact, I'm willing to bet you're new to college in general. It's an exciting time, isn't it? I'm sure that you have been exposed to many ideas and perspectives you'd never realized existed, and you're just bursting with enthusiasm at the thought of sharing a few ideas of your own with your peers now that you find yourself in an academic environment that seems perfectly suited to such an exchange. Why don't we go a little further? Odds are you consider yourself very intelligent. In fact, you're probably so intelligent that you've figured out all the quirks and kinks of organized religion--or at least Christianity. Yeah, that's it, isn't it? You were probably raised in a Christian household and resent that upbringing for limiting your personal freedoms, so it's only natural that you'd seek to undermine Christ's teachings and save others from having such a faulty belief system for their own good. Pretty cool of you, isn't it? You've really got it together. FUCK YOU YOU STUPID FUCKING FAGGOT COLLEGE KID LET ME TELL YOU A SECRET NONE OF YOUR THOUGHTS ON RELIGION ARE RADICAL OR EVEN THOUGHT-PROVOKING IT'S NO SECRET YOU GOT THEM OFF A FUCKING WEBSITE WE'VE ALL READ THE PROSELYTIZER QUESTIONNAIRE TOO NOTHING YOU CAN SAY IS GOING TO LEND A FRESH OUTLOOK DO YOU EVEN UNDERSTAND THAT FOR SEVERAL FUCKING CENTURIES NOW SOME OF THE MOST EDUCATED PEOPLE IN THE ANNALS OF HUMAN HISTORY HAVE DEVOTED THEIR LIVES TO ANSWERING DEEPER THEOLOGICAL CONCERNS THAN YOUR PETTY BULLSHIT ABOUT THE DISCREPANCIES IN THE GENEALOGIES OF CHRIST IN THE GOSPELS? I MEAN HOLY FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU'RE THE ONLY COCKSUCKER WHO EVER NOTICED THAT OR SOMETHING?! WAKE THE FUCK UP YOU'RE STILL JUST A STUPID KID AND WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO IS SHAMEFUL INCONSIDERATE AND DISRESPECTFUL BECAUSE MAYBE YOU'RE TOO MUCH OF A PUSSY TO LIVE ACCORDING TO A STRICT MORAL CODE AND MAYBE YOU'RE TOO MUCH OF A PUSSY TO ACTUALLY TRY AND DEVELOP A STRONG, HONORABLE CHARACTER BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT FOR YOU TO ATTACK MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS OF PEOPLE NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU TRY TO PLAY THE VICTIM TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY "FORCE THEIR BELIEFS" ON YOU BY HANDING OUT A FUCKING PAMPHLET I MEAN HOLY FUCKING CHRIST WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO IS TEN TIMES WORSE GET OVER YOURSELF ALREADY THIS REBELLION AGAINST MOMMY AND DADDY ISN'T IMPRESSING ANYONE WE'VE SEEN IT BEFORE YOU ARE NOT THE FIRST YOU ARE NOT EVEN REMARKABLE STOP ARGUING WITH GARY HE IS MAKING A FOOL OF YOU I SWEAR UPON THE BODY AND BLOOD OF THE PIERCED FUCKING JEW KING THAT IF YOU PULL THIS SALISBURYBOY, SYLVERSHADOW KIND OF SHIT ON ME YOU WORTHLESS WICCAN PANTYSTAIN I WILL SPLIT THE TENDER TISSUES OF YOUR WEEPING ASSHOLE WITH A HARDCOVER EDITION OF THE NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION OF THE HOLY FUCKING BIBLE YOU THINK YOU'RE SO FUCKING SMART I'D LIKE TO SEE YOU DO THE SAME SHIT WITH ANY RELIGION BESIDES CHRISTIANITY OR JUDAISM WITH SOME BOOK BESIDES THE BIBLE OR THE TORAH YOU AIDS-FELCHING CUM FLAKE SO PUT THAT IN YOUR FUCKING PIPE YOU JUST BOUGHT FROM BUDDHA'S BELLY THE FIRST WEEKEND YOU WERE UP HERE AND SMOKE IT YOU FUCKING FAGGOT COLLEGE KID and that's my word."

8/7/2009 1:31:39 PM

I'm probably going to get a bunch of rabble rabble from this, but... what is so wrong about praying about your interviews? I prayed before my grad school interview..

8/7/2009 1:37:23 PM

Pretending a moment that god exists, and listens to prayers, it's incredibly selfish. From my early years in church, I remember that we were all taught that prayers are supposed to be for helping others or giving thanks. Basically begging for good things to happen to you is fucking retarded. Like god gives a fuck about your wants....

[Edited on August 7, 2009 at 1:41 PM. Reason : ]

8/7/2009 1:40:14 PM

Do what you want. Who gives a shit what Willy Nilly from the internet thinks about it.

Me, personally... I wouldn't pray about something that is SOLELY for my gain. I don't think I'm any more important in this world than anyone else. But if you feel empowered or more confident in yourself by doing it, then by all means go for it...

8/7/2009 1:40:24 PM

^^ that certainly gets old, don't ya think?

^ Yeah I've come to ignore a lot of what he says.

If yall must know, I was praying to have confidence in myself (strength if you will) so that I could pave my own way and be the best that I can be. Maybe some people see that as selfish but I'm not going to deny that at that moment I really felt a spiritual connection and somehow my spiritual faith helped me have faith in myself. Sorry if this isn't making much sense, just trying to put it in a way where some people may understand... I know some of yall will never understand it, and I know that some of yall are thinking I could have gained that confidence in myself without prayer, but it's just how I feel. I don't pray about myself much, and I know it's best to pray for others -- but you can't deny that sometimes you need to show love for yourself as well.

8/7/2009 1:49:34 PM

haha

It certainly is easy to bring out the scum at the bottom of the barrel from this site isnt it? Willy Nilly, Frosh, and you other shit stains are pathetic.

You chimps pretty clearly have some sad issues from your childhood or even currently that you need to work through.

I could understand the reaction if her thread was somehow antagonistic or made some absolute claims about prayer and its legitimacy. But it was pretty clear she was only soliciting participation from people who would enjoy the topic of the thread.

You have really highlighted your nature as pathetic angry little boys lashing out from behind your little keyboards.

[Edited on August 7, 2009 at 3:45 PM. Reason : rawr! i hates g0d!!]

[Edited on August 7, 2009 at 3:47 PM. Reason : fancy synonyms and adjectives dont make it any better sadly, only more pathetic :sad:]

8/7/2009 3:44:54 PM

So, you don't think it is selfish?

8/7/2009 3:51:02 PM

To pray for yourself? Not really. I guess I can see how it could be interpreted that way.

I dont do it myself, but from what I can gather from her responses in this thread, I doubt she is the only subject of her prayers.

Since the point of the thread is to post what you would like others to pray for.

8/7/2009 3:56:44 PM

Fine. I pray the OP stops praying for herself.

8/7/2009 4:00:15 PM

Really gets you going does it? Other peoples beliefs? Find other things to get worked up about; trust me it works out better.

8/7/2009 4:01:05 PM

LOKKEN IS A FAG

8/7/2009 4:02:43 PM

8/7/2009 4:03:39 PM

I'm not worked up, I just don't understand the purpose of praying to an all knowing god.

8/7/2009 4:04:03 PM

Of course it's not selfish to pray about your own stuff. If you believe in God and the bible, then the next logical step would be to follow where it specifically instructs people to pray for themselves and their needs.

8/7/2009 4:05:41 PM

Hah. The bible says a lot of things you don't do. Why bother believing in it if you are just going to pick and choose?

8/7/2009 4:09:10 PM

Good question. You could always start a thread about it and hope the bottom-feeders can hold back their pre-pubescent rage from turning it into a shit storm.

8/7/2009 4:11:12 PM

I'll do that right after I figure out how to turn water into wine.

8/7/2009 4:12:52 PM

both would take a miracle

8/7/2009 4:16:12 PM

Quote :

"I pray the OP stops praying for herself."

Quote :

"I just don't understand the purpose of praying to an all knowing god."

Exactly.
On the one hand, god is supposed to know all, and control all, and everyone's fate is already written... But on the other hand, people still for some reason, have to pray. If fate is already written, what good does asking for this or that do? Furthermore, shouldn't god already know what your prayer is before you say it?...then why say it?

...dumb fucking god followers don't even make sense.
I respect others right to believe whatever they want, but that doesn't mean I can't point out how little sense it makes.

8/7/2009 4:19:29 PM

THIS JUST IN

Religion is full of contradictions.

All of you have truly stumbled upon something amazing.

8/7/2009 4:25:21 PM

What I love is when people who don't believe in God, praying, etc, get into a dire situation (like dealing with immediate danger) then start praying like Catholic school girls.

8/7/2009 4:29:44 PM

How often have you seen that firsthand?

8/7/2009 4:30:59 PM

Airplanes

Also, my dad was never very religious at all.. He basically only went to church when his parents made him as a kid, could've cared less. Then he ended up on his death bed from leukemia (they even brought out someone to read him his last rights) and somehow pulled through. Ever since then he has become very, very religious.

[Edited on August 7, 2009 at 4:35 PM. Reason : .]

8/7/2009 4:31:55 PM

Yeah, they are funny, but they didn't really disbelieve in god, now did they?
Me? I'm a foxhole atheist. I will never pray. Ever.

8/7/2009 4:35:17 PM

Quote :

"Yeah, they are funny, but they didn't really disbelieve in god, now did they?"

How do you know they didn't completely disbelieve in Him?

8/7/2009 4:37:38 PM

Because they are praying?

So you have been on an airplane in a dire situation full of people who didn't believe in god?

8/7/2009 4:41:24 PM

Quote :

"What I love is when people who don't believe in God, praying, etc, get into a dire situation (like dealing with immediate danger) then start praying like Catholic school girls."

I like Catholic school girls, but not because they pray a lot.

8/7/2009 4:43:49 PM

Quote :

"How do you know they didn't completely disbelieve in Him?"

because They were Saying prayers.... you Know?

[Edited on August 7, 2009 at 4:46 PM. Reason : ]

8/7/2009 4:45:34 PM

^^^ heh

[Edited on August 7, 2009 at 4:46 PM. Reason : ..]

8/7/2009 4:46:02 PM

Please keep my cousin Samantha in your prayers. She was just taken of life support as is still in critical condition after a serious car accident last Thursday evening.

8/7/2009 4:52:21 PM

^4 Believe it or not, people talk on planes. I used to fly a lot to see my dad and would talk to people.. Once we were going through an extremely bad thunderstorm - the plane had crazy turbulence for a while, was dipping like crazy.. I was scared something awful was going to happen and so was everyone else :\ (not scared as in oh I'm worried, scared as in shaking, almost to tears). Anyway, the woman I had been talking to (about religion) had mentioned she was an atheist.. Low and behold she started mumbling things like "oh God", etc.

^3 I meant before what happened. You're just assuming that someone can't start believing after something traumatizing happens to them. I know it's a movie, but think of Jules from Pulp Fiction.


I would ask yall why you find that to be so shocking, etc... but at the same time, I really don't give a shit. You're still going to think it's silly to pray and not believe me, so whatev. Besides, it's time for me to go home. Peace

[Edited on August 7, 2009 at 4:57 PM. Reason : ^ that's awful.. and I will be sure to pray for her ]

8/7/2009 4:57:14 PM

Quote :

". Low and behold she started mumbling things like "oh God", etc."

I say things like "god damn" and "what the hell" all the time even though I believe in neither.

8/7/2009 4:59:42 PM

Quote :

"mumbling things like "oh God"

is not prayer.
I mean, jesus christ... god damn....
(oh shit, I must believe )

8/7/2009 4:59:57 PM

Even as an agnostic I don't think there was any reason for this thread to be gayed up like this. It would have been just as easy to do this: message_section.aspx?section=9

8/7/2009 5:30:24 PM

I pray GoldenGirl lets me put it in her butt

thank you and god bless

8/7/2009 5:55:32 PM

set 'em up

8/7/2009 6:40:07 PM