2

7/28/2009 11:25:52 PM

hahahahaha

7/29/2009 7:47:57 AM

130k stock-bottomed 5.0 with H/C/I? Been done a thousand times. Plenty of proven combos out there, just depends on what you want to do and how much you have to spend.

Are you staying EFI, or going carb?

What's your budget and goals?

7/31/2009 12:36:59 AM

does Porter still got that 250K+ mile white car, that he was sprayin

7/31/2009 10:49:51 AM

^^goal is to eventually make 500hp. will have to rebuild for it to hold that though i believe. I am starting to consider doing a budget minded stroker. Spending the big money on the rotating assembly and maybe working over some 351 heads. Add a 100 shot of nitrous.

Figure forged bottom end components approx $1600
Set of used 351 heads + significant port job = $800?
Gaskets, misc machining and other parts = $1000?
Nitrous = $600

7/31/2009 12:53:54 PM

u woulda been better off buying an already built car.

7/31/2009 2:45:37 PM

you can do that with a stock bottom end from a 90 and up. its all forged and can take the spray. decent set of heads and what not. and a 150 shot or so. ive seen it done many times

7/31/2009 3:08:30 PM

You've got a lot of big ticket items for a budget build. An 8 grand budget, lol?

7/31/2009 3:32:57 PM

i only see 4k. did i miss something?

7/31/2009 3:35:00 PM

the car, the tires, the rear end, the suspension the the the the the

7/31/2009 4:32:31 PM

Quote :

"u woulda been better off buying an already built car. "

7/31/2009 4:34:08 PM

Quote :

"^^goal is to eventually make 500hp. will have to rebuild for it to hold that though i believe. I am starting to consider doing a budget minded stroker. Spending the big money on the rotating assembly and maybe working over some 351 heads. Add a 100 shot of nitrous. Figure forged bottom end components approx $1600 Set of used 351 heads + significant port job = $800? Gaskets, misc machining and other parts = $1000? Nitrous = $600"

EFI or carb?

You're better off IMO getting a set of aftermarket aluminum heads either way. Bunch of portwork isn't neccesary, and you can get a set ready to bolt on for not much more than $800. Try AFR, Edelbrock, or Trickflow, all are decent and whatever you end up with is a matter of preference and your own research. Shits' been done and redone many many times. I'd look for a 180cc or so head, but that's just me. Don't forget to tack on an extra few hundred for a good cam and valvetrain. I've seen good results with Bennet Racing's custom grinds (Google them) or the Wolverine 1087 shelf grind.

All you need to upgrade in the shortblock (if anything) are the rods and pistons, the block is the weak point beyond 500 or so rwhp and it's pointless to put internals capable of much more than that in a stock block.

If you're staying EFI you'll need a good upper and lower intake (around $500 or so for both), plus a set of injectors and a tune. Probably cost about the same as converting to carb as you'll need an intake and good carb for that, too. Personal preference, again.

A stroker is not really neccesary to achieve 500rwhp with a power adder, IMO. If your power goals are signifcantly beyond that, you have other issues to worry about to begin with, i.e. the OEM block.

Nitrous will possible end up a bit more than $600 if you get the bottle heater, window switch and all the other odds and ends that go with doing it truly right. Just to let you know, because you'll need a bit more than a 100 shot to achieve 500rwhp, if that's what you were meaning when you say "500hp". If you're looking for 500 flywheel, then a 100 shot can get you close if you have a well-sorted and tuned H/C/I setup.

[Edited on July 31, 2009 at 6:31 PM. Reason : ccc]

7/31/2009 6:28:30 PM

Quote :

"BOOGITY MOTHERFUCKING BOLT-ON "

7/31/2009 6:35:46 PM

Planning on sticking with EFI for now. Engine is pre 1990 to someones comment above so thats a negative on the forged internals. Main reason for considering the stroker route is if I have to replace most of the bottom end to handle a good shot of nitrous, the stroker kit doesnt really cost much more. Just the added machining to create the clearance in the block.

And yes its becoming not so much of a "budget" minded vehicle but I also dont see going nuts and dumping tons and tons into it either. Alot of the guys I run with at the dragstrip have considerably more than $5000 to $10000 in their cars. Hell, they go and buy a crate engine for $10k alone.

And might have been better off buying a car already built, but what would be the fun in that?

8/1/2009 4:51:53 PM

what ems do you use once you make extensive changes to the motor?

8/1/2009 5:04:40 PM

^ lol. probly the factory shit. thats the good thing about those cars

8/1/2009 6:40:44 PM

^^the stock mass air/EEC can go impressively far. aftermarket tuning of course... plenty of DIY and professional options out there.

this car is speed density though, right? should be doable to keep it with the minimal mods planned...

8/1/2009 10:30:53 PM

^ changing it over to mass air is also in the plans.

8/1/2009 10:38:16 PM

sounds like fun. doesnt sound like you are local though .

if you need any help with anything PM me. I'm used to building japanese motors so I guess I'll just have to multiply all my tolerances by 4 .

8/2/2009 9:26:26 AM

Quote :

"Planning on sticking with EFI for now. Engine is pre 1990 to someones comment above so thats a negative on the forged internals. Main reason for considering the stroker route is if I have to replace most of the bottom end to handle a good shot of nitrous, the stroker kit doesnt really cost much more. Just the added machining to create the clearance in the block"

Well, with a goal of 500rwhp, a stroker is a totally unnecessary expense and the money would be better spent elsewhere. You'll easily spend an extra grand or more on a stroker in the real world, believe me. Unless you're building an NA setup, I think building a stock-block based stroker with one of these motors is essentially a waste of time and money, but that's just me.
If it were me, I'd do a stock rebuild with a good balance job, some budget rods and forged pistons and call it a day. Spend all of the money on the heads/cam/valvetrain/etc.

1987-1992 had forged pistons. 1988 was the last year of speed density IIRC, 1989 and later cars were MAF. 1993 cars had hyperutectic pistons and MAF, but were otherwise almost identical to the 1992 model.

8/4/2009 11:58:20 AM

One of my friends was trying to sell a set of GT40P heads for $450 recently. I think he had them reworked with new valves and everything, but I'd have to call him to get specifics. Don't know if that's a good price or not, but they're supposed to be good for about 40 HP and 40 lb. ft. of torque on the 5.0 iirc. They'd go well in my boat, but I passed just because it does fine as is. Not trying to make it suck gas any worse than it already does with the GT40s that are on there.

[Edited on August 4, 2009 at 12:40 PM. Reason : l]

8/4/2009 12:16:38 PM

yeah thats decent,

8/4/2009 12:51:17 PM

^^^good advice. a decent stroker rotating assembly is not cheap. sticking it in a stock block, unless it's a mexican block or something, doesn't make much sense either. get some good heads that you can grow with, good intake, and spray the dog shit out of it until you kill the stock bottom end. it'll go deep into the 7's all day.

8/4/2009 5:00:23 PM

Thanks for all the tips, something I will definitely have to consider. Wasnt aware it had forged pistons.

8/4/2009 6:22:34 PM

forged = more nawzzz. strap a 200 shot on and let it eat.

8/4/2009 6:26:49 PM

^on a 130k bottom end? i picture a boom in its future.

8/5/2009 6:42:08 AM

i mean, it's not going to last forever... but that's not over the edge by any means, i see no reason it shouldn't at least last until you're ready to build the bottom end. plus, you're just running the 1/8th mile, right? that's a hell of a lot easier on an engine vs. one that sees the 1/4 or lots of street action. i wouldn't recommend that much otherwise.

with a solid tune and a decent kit, i see no reason it wouldn't go 2-3 seasons at least assuming the engine is relatively solid for the age/miles. i know several guys that have run 200 and even 250 shots on 100k+ mile stock blocks and gotten by 1,2, and even 3 seasons of week in/week out abuse on the track and street.

if you're that worried about it, just do a 150 then. that should still put it as a consistent high 7 second car. chances are slim you'd hurt anything with that (assuming proper setup again, of course). nitrous is hands down the cheapest/easiest way to go fast on a budget build like this. if by some fluke you do blow it soon, big deal... you were planning to build the rest of it anyway, right? seems like a no brainer to me...

8/5/2009 6:58:19 AM

^definitely sounds like a fun option. I can only imagine the amount of puckering up that would be occuring the first time the nitrous button was hit. Big kick in the ass going from 200hp to 400hp.

Probably be best with stock heads as well, figuring if it grenades and happens to throw a rod through the top as least I wouldnt ruin an expensive set of heads.

8/5/2009 8:59:04 AM

Quote :

"get some good heads that you can grow with, good intake, and spray the dog shit out of it until you kill the stock bottom end. it'll go deep into the 7's all day."

There have been scads of people who have done this for years on high-mileage stock shortblocks without a problem. It's been done with boost also, FWIW.
Do a compression and leakdown test and you should be good to go. 130k is not the end of the road for one of these motors by any means if it's been maintained somewhat well.

Low 7's at over 95mph are not hard to do with a well set up fox with H/C/I and either a 150 shot or Vortech. Hell I've seen it done plenty of times on Nittos with a factory 5-speed and street-oriented suspension.

If you wanted to play with fire and push it harder down the road you could easily add more nitrous/fuel or boost and push it into the mid-to-high 6's at 100 or more on a short track and high-10's at nearly 130 on a long one. However, at this level it's a crap shoot how much your factory block wants to tolerate.

[Edited on August 5, 2009 at 11:35 AM. Reason : .]

8/5/2009 11:32:11 AM

get an engine kit from summit including pistons, a good cam, intake and machine worrk should run you about $1200

8/6/2009 9:10:25 PM

fuck it boost that shit till it throws a piston through the hood, then build it stronger.

8/6/2009 9:14:24 PM

twin turbo 5.0

DO IT

8/6/2009 9:27:35 PM

vid from last night

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fK4NDKd8Zg notoriously slow track FWIW. the pontiac runs almost 4 tenths quicker at mooresville.

very frustrating night, hard time getting it off the line right. either not enough throttle and lots of axle hop, too much and it spins, or very rarely it stuck. makes it worse since i dont have a line lock yet and cant properly heat the tires

8/7/2009 6:34:23 AM

^^there's a local shop (HED) that went into the 5's on a big single, STOCK bottom end. wasn't even touched up with arp hardware or anything i don't think like most "stock" bottom ends are.

8/7/2009 6:58:21 AM

oh shit a 9.xx


time for jojo to bring out the Lung for some TWW competition

8/7/2009 8:53:59 AM

do you have the original quad shocks on that thing. looks like they are wore out from being launched, causing that rear to kick out like that in the water box

8/7/2009 9:08:44 AM

^ got rid of the quad shocks when i replaced the control arms with aftermarkets. could put on some new ones if it would make a difference. the more I think about it the more likely that seems. thanks alot

[Edited on August 7, 2009 at 12:15 PM. Reason : ..]

8/7/2009 12:05:44 PM

yeah i would def do that. agx kybs are decent

8/7/2009 4:22:26 PM

^ordered them at advance this afternoon.

8/7/2009 6:59:52 PM

please give this care more power.

8/7/2009 10:37:46 PM

well, give it care and power

8/8/2009 12:47:20 AM

Quote :

"well, give it care hell and power"

8/8/2009 2:42:44 AM

headers are going on this afternoon

8/8/2009 8:34:34 AM

forced
induction


youre just beating around the bush now!

8/8/2009 11:01:49 AM

cool thing is about forced induction is that you can putt he shorties on backwards to run the turbo piping.

you got bbk right and not MAC.

8/9/2009 2:00:27 AM

^correct

8/9/2009 1:40:42 PM

Quote :

"there's a local shop (HED) that went into the 5's on a big single, STOCK bottom end. wasn't even touched up with arp hardware or anything i don't think like most "stock" bottom ends are."

Yea, I think that one was an untouched factory shortblock. However, both you and I know such cases are the exception rather than the norm. That's what makes it extraordinary - the block 'should' have split long ago. Last I heard that thing's still running though

All of you talking about turbo builds must have missed the word "budget" in the thread title. I was referring to 'boost' as a regular old-school centrifugal blower kit, which can be picked up used for well under 2 grand these days.

8/10/2009 10:50:11 AM

i was considering nitrous as forced induction.

he should turbo it though .

8/10/2009 12:18:19 PM

the new quad shocks seem to make a difference. went out for a quick test run last night and laid two nice long black marks in the community college parking lot. rear end didnt hop anywhere near as much as it was.

8/10/2009 12:21:31 PM

99 Red 5.0s

8/10/2009 12:38:18 PM