With the gold card go to GNC this week and get ON's nitrocore, 6 lbs for $27.00 of some of the best protein you can buy. Good stuff.

3/1/2009 7:58:50 PM

Add Topic To My Topics

3/2/2009 12:11:23 AM

1. What are your recommendations for protein intake for muscle growth?

Current literature suggests that it may be too simplistic to rely on recommendations of a particular amount of protein per day.

Studies suggest that for any given amount of protein, the metabolic response is dependent on other factors, including the timing of ingestion in relation to exercise and/or other nutrients, the composition of ingested amino acids and the type of protein.

However, Tarnopolsky suggests that, "protein requirements for athletes performing strength training are greater than for sedentary individuals and are above current Canadian and US recommended daily protein intake requirements for young healthy males."

2. Has anyone seen a weight gain from just increasing protein intake through diet alone, and how?

A balanced diet is your friend. You need carbohydrates, just as you require a healthy intake of fat. You will never need more protein than carbohydrates if you are as active as you claim you are. You just need to make sure you get an adequate supply of protein. I'm 99% sure that you are getting enough protein.

3. If I do decide on protein supplement, what do you recommend for protein on a budget?

Be careful, more is simply not better. A positive energy balance is required for anabolism, so a requirement for "extra" protein extremely over and above normal values is not to be a critical issue for competitive athletes--even strength-trained athletes. Presently, there is absolutely no convincing evidence to suggest that supplements are required for optimal muscle growth or strength gain.

While strength training lowers blood pH and enhances bone reforming through mechanical loading. Excess pure protein (whey powder shakes) consumption has a tendency to mobilize calcium from the bones lowering bone mineral density (BMD) and predisposing you for osteoporosis. It is not a significant risk when compared with genetics and menopause, but it's still a risk.

Bottomline.

You don't need to be paying for protein other than convenience. The rest is marketing.

They do a damned good job on preying on consumers with almost unattainable body ideals. There is significant evidence that muscle and body dysmorphia is linked to affective symptomology. We see this in individuals that have high levels of anxiety, depression, or low levels of overall self-concept and interpersonal sensitivity.

Figure out where you are on the body image continuum. Why are you trying to gain weight? Why are you so ready and willing to buy into the hype, the frenzy to buy supplements. The word supplement evokes some sort of magic as if it's almost as potent as a pharmaceutical grade drug. It's no wonder that many companies market their product as if they were! Think about it.

I guarantee any of you that you can get the results without the supplements just as effectively. Go spend that money on something more important like Left 4 Dead.

[Edited on March 2, 2009 at 2:39 AM. Reason : .]

3/2/2009 2:16:39 AM

Quote :

"I guarantee any of you that you can get the results without the supplements just as effectively"

while I do understand your stance on the issue, you are just plain wrong

3/2/2009 2:55:07 AM

I am a doctoral student in exercise science. What about supplements make them any more effective than something you can ingest from regular food?

3/2/2009 3:03:22 AM

exercise scientist != nutritionist

but I do agree supplements aren't needed, eat oatmeal and steak, lots of it

3/2/2009 7:06:39 AM

Quote :

"I am a doctoral student in exercise science. What about supplements make them any more effective than something you can ingest from regular food?"

Don't argue with broscience on tww.

Quote :

"There is a huge difference between bottom of the barrel whey protein concentrates and the more expensive isolates and hydrolysates. Your body will even let you know the difference by getting extremely bloated and gassy on the cheaper products. What good does it do you to take a protein supplement if your body doesn't even want to digest it as protein? "

Any proof on that? I am serious, I have never seen any legitimate studies (ie not funded by a product company) that suggest this. I've used cheap stuff and expensive stuff, and noticed no difference at all except it taste, which wasn't dependent on price.

[Edited on March 2, 2009 at 8:20 AM. Reason : .]

3/2/2009 8:15:07 AM

higher. quality. poop.

3/2/2009 8:38:29 AM

^Indeed.

One of the best feelings in the world when bulking is the glorious, log-jamming turds that you produce. Eat shit and you will be robbed of those magnificent dumps.

3/2/2009 7:02:47 PM

do you question why whole food proteins with a higher biological value and digestability are better than foods with a lower biological value and less digestability?

3/2/2009 9:51:22 PM

I would not speculate to say how much better. But, all else equal, I would say higher BV is better.

However, BV is limited in function. The BV of a particular protein is dependant on a wide variety of factors. Much of which is too difficult to control barring a laboratory environment.

[Edited on March 2, 2009 at 10:03 PM. Reason : .]

3/2/2009 10:02:15 PM

Quote :

"but I do agree supplements aren't needed, eat oatmeal and steak, lots of it "

so first you say he's wrong then you say he's right?


wat?


at its core you can get everything you need from food alone.

supplements are just that supplements. with them you don't have to eat a pound of spinach in order to get that vitamin level up, or a pound of steak to get the levels of protein you want.

supplements merely allow you to eat less and get the same increased levels of certain vitamins, minerals and components as a massive diet would have.

that's it. (they can also help increase your absorption of nutrients at different levels as well obviously)

Quote :

""I am a doctoral student in exercise science. What about supplements make them any more effective than something you can ingest from regular food?""

density of target nutrient/component

but i agree with you. (i don't do supplements very much)

[Edited on March 6, 2009 at 10:05 AM. Reason : s]

3/6/2009 10:03:58 AM

Does anyone here who works out use a premade program from online, if so where did you find it?

3/15/2009 4:43:29 PM

try http://animalpak.com or http://bodybuilding.com they have lots of workout programs and splits that you can download and use for your workouts depending on what you want to do and how much time you want to devote per week at the gym.

Good luck

here is a link for the animal routines http://animalpak.com/html/sections.cfm?id=32 they look very decent to me and would be a good start.

[Edited on March 15, 2009 at 11:18 PM. Reason : yea]

3/15/2009 11:17:35 PM

Look Up Joe DeFranco's West Side for Skinny Bastards III

3/16/2009 1:58:25 AM

eat some form of protein at EVERY meal. eat carbs until ~ mid-afternoon.

supplementals:

whey protein (good at breakfast and essential after working out/playing bball)
CLA (keeps you regular
multivitamin (helps you process all you are eating/keeps you healthy)

you should be eating 5 meals a day. crackers do not count as a meal.

3/16/2009 7:28:50 PM

this may be a little off topic, but it seems a good place to ask: i'm looking for a good homemade post workout shake, any recommendations?

i'm thinking
30ish g whey protein
1 cup quick oats
fruit
(all blended)
possibly some glutamine or creatine, but i wanna keep it simple for now

i'm 5-11, 165-170. i don't really want to gain weight, i just really want to lean up some. i lift about 3 times a week, and for the short term i want to build muscle just so i can burn some fat and tone up. doc did a body comp and told me i'm 14% body fat, so i have a decent frame to work off of i suppose.

i'm under the impression that protein will boost muscle gain, but will this shake put on too much weight?

[Edited on March 16, 2009 at 9:39 PM. Reason : []

3/16/2009 9:37:56 PM

I have found this site to be excellent:
http://www.gain-weight-muscle-fast.com/weight-gain-diet-plan.html

Click through all the links about diet, but it is spot on about how/when/what you should be eating for lean muscle gain.

3/16/2009 10:02:46 PM

Supplements are a waste of your money.

3/17/2009 12:00:56 PM

Unfortunately, not all of us have the time to prepare 5-6 meals a day, even in advance. I work 40+ hours a week, am a full-time graduate student and fill in my "free time" by going to the gym, playing basketball or being social...

I simply can't get enough calories (and specifically protein) everyday without at the very least a protein bar or whey shake...

I'm about 5'9" and 157 and I'd like to gain about 10-12 pounds total...

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 1:11 PM. Reason : x]

3/17/2009 1:09:29 PM

Quote :

"Supplements are a waste of your money."

How are they a waste of money? Say you get a 6lb tube of protein for $45, say ON's 100% whey, probably the best you can buy. That's a $1.71 per serving which you can substitute on one of the small meals. I just don't see how that's a waste of money...that's pretty cheap IMO, not to mention that it is healthy to do so.

What I see here is not a waste of money but a win win - one on health and one on your wallet by not having to spend money on healthy snack foods that can get quite expensive when added up.

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 1:45 PM. Reason : one tub has 77 servings]

3/17/2009 1:44:08 PM

Humans lived for hundreds of thousands of years without supplements or vitamins. Some of those motherfuckers were cock diesel.

If you eat right, you don't need them, they just may help you achieve a goal faster. Or you can sub them for a quick snack/meal.

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 6:43 PM. Reason : a]

3/17/2009 6:42:33 PM

Supplements can also be faster digesting, and more efficient for peri workout nutrition.

3/17/2009 6:45:38 PM

Quote :

"Humans lived for hundreds of thousands of years without supplements or vitamins"

we also lived that time without massive amounts of carbs...it wasn't until the agricultural revolution and more recently with slavery & refined sugar did we start eating more than 50g net carbs/day

what were carb sources pre-agri? some berries collected, tubers, random stuff our women would scrounge up while we hunted

3/17/2009 6:58:42 PM

Quote :

"Humans lived for hundreds of thousands of years without supplements or vitamins. Some of those motherfuckers were cock diesel. "

What makes you think they were cock diesel? Their skeletal remains sure don't seem to imply they were anything but smaller and weaker than our current population.

3/17/2009 10:01:31 PM

It wouldn't take much to be smaller than the US's current population...

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 10:03 PM. Reason : b]

3/17/2009 10:02:56 PM

the egyptians were believed to be fatasses with horrible tooth decay based on skeletal remains as well, so who knows.

3/17/2009 10:04:26 PM

Quote :

"It wouldn't take much to be smaller than the US's current population... "

That was well said!!!



24.7!!! Watch out Mississippi hur we cummm!

3/18/2009 1:20:34 AM

I already made my post in this thread regarding convenience, effectiveness, etc. For the majority of all those taking supplements, it is a waste of money.

Unfortunately, I say this while being sponsored by Powerbar and Red Bull. However, I don't pay for my bars, gels or sports drink. Gels and bars are effective at keeping my glycogen stores topped off when I'm training for hours. But I also acknowledge their limitations.

You miss out on micronutrients and phytochemicals that are often absent or reduced through processing.

I'll say it again, just because I think people are missing out on the big picture. The majority of the supplement industry is just marketing. They target boys and men through perceived body ideals--usually leading to some degree of muscle dysmoprhia.

Supplements are often sold resembling some pharmaceutical drug or with some juiced-up model on the box or label.

Hard work > supplements.

3/18/2009 9:32:46 PM

no one is arguing that hard work isnt greater than supplements. I think most people on here understand that you arent going to take protein and get ripped.

so sure, hard work > supplements 100%.

But hard work + supplements > hard work if you arent already getting the full amount of protein etc. that your body can utilize.

3/18/2009 9:37:38 PM

That's the thing. Most Americans are getting enough protein. Protein isn't the only factor in the formula for creating muscle hypertrophy. It is important but it's rarely the limiter.

[Edited on March 18, 2009 at 9:45 PM. Reason : .]

3/18/2009 9:45:00 PM

I understand that.. but I dont get enough protein in my diet everyday for my workout routines without my supplement.

I try and average between 100g and 125g of protein a day and I generally run between 75g and 100g with my normal diet. So I add one serving of a protein supplement to round it out.

3/18/2009 9:58:55 PM

A sound diet based MOSTLY in whole foods + hard fucking work=

3/18/2009 10:58:36 PM

3/18/2009 11:12:50 PM

have a small chocolate milk before (1 hour or so) and after (immediate if possible 1+ = ineffective) a workout.

3/20/2009 12:09:47 PM

I don't know if I'd be recommending chocolate milk to people. That contains a lot of sugar with almost no added nutritional value over the milk itself. Did you mean to say chocolate flavored protein powder instead?

I eat a can of tuna about 1.5 hours before my workout and drink grape juice mixed with water, protein powder, and occasionally creatine about 15 minutes after my workout (when I get home from the gym).

3/20/2009 1:07:36 PM

I would reserve milk for postworkout. A study by scientists at Indiana University showed that chocolate milk is very effective in recovery after hard exercise. They compared the effects of chocolate milk against a series of commercially produced recovery drinks.

The results showed that chocolate milk is a strong alternative to other commercial sports drinks in helping athletes recover from strenuous, energy-depleting exercise.

Chocolate milk contains an optimal carbohydrate to protein ratio, which is critical for helping refuel tired muscles after strenuous exercise and can enable athletes to exercise at a high intensity during subsequent workouts.

Depending on the mode of exercise and intensity, milk may not be the best choice before working out. Especially if you are doing something like a tempo run.

3/21/2009 5:47:41 AM

The studied compared Chocolate milk to a gatorade. Apples to oranges. I will keep my Surge.

3/21/2009 10:16:11 AM

Quote :

"A study by scientists at Indiana University showed that chocolate milk is very effective in recovery after hard exercise. They compared the effects of chocolate milk against a series of commercially produced recovery drinks."

That sounds like the biggest load of bullshit I've ever heard.

3/22/2009 12:26:21 AM

The study was funded in part by an organization with a vested interest in the dairy market.

It compared it against Gatorade and Endurox--not the best recovery drinks to compare. Regardless, it does at the very least aid in recovery.

As for shredder's spiteful disbelief, I can't help you there. You may hold on to your beliefs founded on propaganda and marketing.

3/22/2009 12:37:29 AM

and you could actually post a fucking link instead of just spouting off at the mouth.

3/22/2009 6:58:57 PM

Quote :

"The study was funded in part by an organization with a vested interest in the dairy market."

Quote :

"You may hold on to your beliefs founded on propaganda and marketing."

3/22/2009 7:14:00 PM

anyone use EAS 100% whey protein chocolate, seen some on sale, opinions?

3/22/2009 8:28:33 PM

Pressed for time, I bought a bag of EAS 100 percent vanilla. Mixes like shit.

ON all the way.

3/22/2009 8:33:49 PM

Stay away from milk actually, it slows digestion. You want fast acting protein post workout. However, this might just be splitting hairs, in theory it makes a difference, doubt youd ever notice

3/22/2009 8:36:37 PM

EAS products clump like crazy and taste like cardboard. Go with ON or place an order with TrueProtein.com.

3/22/2009 8:55:31 PM

MYOPLEX!!! WHERE'S THE GOD DAMN PROTEIN MA!!! MUSCLLEEEE MILLKKKK!!!

Just get fat like all other americans guys...everyone's doin it. Mcdonalds everyday FTW!

3/24/2009 2:31:13 PM

trueprotein.com is the way to go. use discount code DNT276 by the way. big 5% off your order.

I've been sourcing from them for a year and it's all good stuff.

Your best general all-around protein:
http://www.trueprotein.com/Product_Details.aspx?cid=50&pid=534

Budget:
http://www.trueprotein.com/Product_Details.aspx?cid=22&pid=6740

You can also buy 25/50lb orders of recession whey for cheap.

They just introduced beef protein isolate. I'm going to switch to it for a month once they introduce the "soup" flavors.
http://www.trueprotein.com/Product_Details.aspx?cid=22&pid=6888

I'm working my way through all of their natural premium flavors now. They're even better than the sucralose/Ace-K sweetened versions.

The other supplements are really worth a look. You can rip off any retail mix you want with their custom orders and it's about 33% of the cost.

[Edited on March 26, 2009 at 12:52 AM. Reason : a]

3/26/2009 12:52:28 AM

Quote :

"Stay away from milk actually, it slows digestion. You want fast acting protein post workout. However, this might just be splitting hairs, in theory it makes a difference, doubt youd ever notice"

considering that one small bottle of chocolate milk has 14g of protein in it, i don't think the rate will be much of an issue with regards to amino acid availability...

whole foods are still superior to supplements and such (supplements are just that, used to add something to your normal diet, not replace it)

sup·ple·ment
/n. 's?pl?m?nt; v. 's?pl??m?nt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [n. suhp-luh-muhnt; v. suhp-luh-ment] Show IPA
–noun
1. something added to complete a thing, supply a deficiency, or reinforce or extend a whole.
2. a part added to a book, document, etc., to supply additional or later information, correct errors, or the like.
3. a part, usually of special character, issued as an additional feature of a newspaper or other periodical.
4. Geometry. the quantity by which an angle or an arc falls short of 180° or a semicircle.

[Edited on April 9, 2009 at 1:12 PM. Reason : dur dur dur]

4/9/2009 1:10:57 PM

set em up

4/9/2009 2:04:55 PM