Quote :

" You do realize that forming an opinion of homeschoolers on the basis of those you run into is a dangerously narrow viewpoint. Wait, were you homeschooled? "

The person you're attacking admitted that their assessment of home schooling was limited in scope to what she had seen. They even went as far to list what regions/demographics were particularly absent from their experiences. Forming opinions and extrapolating based on experiences is called learning. There are only so many ways to form an opinion on something; if you're going to leave out first hand experience then what do you propose? Statistics are interesting and all, but experienced adults know to distrust them as much as third hand anecdotes. Sure, numbers don't lie; statisticians and interest groups aren't numbers though.

Perhaps, if you intend to attack the basis for their opinions, you would share your own motivations and information base. Are you defensive because you were home schooled and are incensed at negative perceptions of homeschooling? Wouldn't your own opinions then be based on personal experience? What value do you believe information from a group whose job is the defense of home schooling adds? If you're backing your arguments with an article from a group whose job it is to agree with your position, how can you attack someone's basis for opinion and still keep a straight face? I don't think I could post something like that and saw what you said without rolling on the floor laughing.

Quote :

"Also, did any public school students make use of Sylvan? "

Yes. My little sister did for a while and it really helped her out.

Quote :

"You accuse homeschoolers of taking a narrow viewpoint and proceed to argue by anecdote against the movement? Really?"

All of their arguments were qualified and the basis for them was made apparent and honest. The same can not be said for your weak and strangely defensive ad hominem arguments. It is clear you are attempting to expose an assumed hypocrisy. A more thorough reading of the above posts should clear up your confusion on that point.

[Edited on July 31, 2008 at 1:00 AM. Reason : ]

7/31/2008 12:59:23 AM

it's kinda funny how easy it is to pick out the TSB-regulars in this thread

7/31/2008 3:03:22 AM

Quote :

"Public school sucks, but it's the fire where Americans are forged. I wouldn't trade my shitty public school for a better education at home "

Not only that, but I find it hard to believe that homeschooling could possibly offer a better education to even an average public school beyond the elementary or MAYBE middle school level. I mean, one person is VERY unlikely to be as good at so many different subjects as teachers who focus on one or two things.

In addition, you learn and develop a lot more at school that just what's taught in the curriculum.

In my opinion, you can totally suck and make it through public schools, getting only a minimal education out of them. If you work hard and want to get the most out, though, you can get a pretty decent education (and a very, very good education in the better school systems).

With enough money, I suppose some of the limitations inherent to homeschooling could be overcome, but not completely, and it would require the financial equivalent of killing ants with a sledgehammer.

Speaking of which, I went to a private school until 3rd grade. My dad knew the principal of a very large, prestigious private school in raleigh who basically told him "Private schools are far, far more efficient with their budgets than public schools...the bang for the buck is not even comparable. However, government throws such enormous amounts of money at public schools that private schools simply can't compete with some of the opportunities, equipment, facilities, etc, available at a public school."






and yeah, not all, but most homeschoolers I've met and known did it specifically in order to isolate and shelter the kid from the horrors of public school, which everyone knows are overrun with profanity, evolution, drugs, non-abstinence sex-ed, and all sorts of other terrible influences.

[Edited on July 31, 2008 at 11:07 PM. Reason : asdfasdadsfa]

7/31/2008 11:04:55 PM

The thing is, most homeschoolers I know took their high school lab and advanced math courses (those courses where facilities make a difference) at the local community college. I can guarantee you that the facilities, teaching and equipment for my chemistry, physics and calculus classes there far outclassed anything you will find at even the best public schools in the state. It was nearly free as well (I think my parents spent like $20 for lab fees or something) as part of the dual enrollment program offered to anyone in high school in the area. I also got full college credit for those courses which definitely helped when I got to State.

My mom taught me until the courses I was taking were out of her field or experience and then I took courses at the co-op (debate, public speaking), community college (pre-calc, calc, chemistry, physics 1 and 2), and then hired a family friend to teach us spanish one and two (which I was able to place out of at state). Family vacation became incredible fieldtrips (charleston, williamsburg, etc.) and my mom did a great job at tying in locations to our lesson plans. All of those things did not require great financial resources and were very common among the homeschool community in my area.

I'd like to be able to say that my parents were just way more advanced than the other homeschoolers in this area, but my experience was pretty typical with how most of the homeschool community in my area operates.

Sure, it is possible to get a good/great education from either source if the parents and child are into it and committed and I would certainly not recommend homeschooling for every family. For those families where it is possible and the parents are motivated and prepared, I do think you will likely get a much better education (social and academic) through homeschooling than North Carolina public schools.

Quote :

"profanity, evolution, drugs, non-abstinence sex-ed, and all sorts of other terrible influences."

Aside from evolution, is there really anything here that a child should be exposed to?

[Edited on August 1, 2008 at 10:26 AM. Reason : d]

8/1/2008 10:23:41 AM

I was going to read the whole thread, but I got bored, so sue me.

I was homeschooled from the age of 9 until I was 17, when I came to NCSU. I have never attended public school, and I don't think I'm lacking anything because of it. This is an account of my experience with homeschooling. WARNING: words.

My parents decided to homeschool me and my 4 siblings for a number of reasons, but mostly because of the crappy job the private school we were attending at the time was doing. I attended a Montessori school from pre-kindergarten through the first grade. I (and my older siblings who attended as well) gained some valuable experience. One of the tenets of Montessori schools is that capable of self-directed learning, which I think enabled me to learn a whole lot more at this time than I would have otherwise.

After moving and enrolling in a more traditional private school (grade 2 for me), we ran into the problem that I and my siblings weren't learning anything. Why? Because we had already learned literally everything that was presented in their curriculum.

I can't speak for my siblings but my experience was sleeping through class most days. When I wasn't sleeping I would correct every error the teacher made and blurt out the answers to every question asked to the class. This caused them to write things like "disruptive," "lacking interest in subject material," and "uncooperative" on evaluations (and they were entirely right). They were also fully aware that I already knew everything they were trying to teach the rest of the class. However, they refused to do anything about it. I couldn't skip a grade or work with a more advanced curriculum because it might "hurt the other students' self-esteems" because they weren't doing as well as I was and the administration didn't want to seem like they were giving me preferential treatment. I imagine my siblings' experiences were much the same.

After 2 years of that, my parents decided the school was just wasting time and money and they decided on homeschooling. I honestly don't know how they came up with the idea or decided on it, but I'm glad they did. My mom spent a lot of time carefully discussing curriculum with other homeschooling parents, attending homeschooling conferences and so forth. Her style of teaching was pretty hands-off for the most part. She told us what to do and we did it (for the most part), plain and simple. By her choice of appropriate materials, we were able to teach ourselves just about anything we needed, including things like calculus, trigonometry, and physics.

In addition to my mother's curriculum, I spent a lot of time with my dad working with computers (that was his hobby), programming and networking (back in the DOS IPX/SPX days). Our parents also had us participating in extracurricular stuff like sports (swimming, basketball, baseball, track and field), 4H, and NJHA (national junior horticulture association, which I hated with a passion), where we had plenty of opportunity to socialize with "normal" people.

When I was 14 I took some time off school to attend courses at a local computer training center, to learn more about networking, picked up a professional certification (Microsoft Certified Systems Enginer, which doesn't count for much compared to a Cisco cert, but the courses for that weren't available to me at the time).

I took some CLEP exams, since most colleges won't accept homeschooling curriculum to meet prerequisites for more advanced classes. I still ended up having to retake some stuff at a community college. From the age of 16 to 17, all of my education was coming from Cape Fear Community College and UNC Wilmington except for the one summers where I took courses at NCSU. The rules for dual-enrollment say you're not allowed to take enough credits to be a full time student (ergo I could only take 11 credits at CFCC) and the rest I took at UNCW. I ended up taking a lot of stuff at the community college just for personal enrichment.

By the time I actually started at NCSU as a full-time student I had about 70 college credits (granted about 30 of them didn't transfer, and a few more couldn't be applied to my degree). But whatever, I managed to get a master's degree in 9 semesters (5 years because I took a semester off before grad school).

All I can say is that if I went to a traditional school, public or private, there's no way I could have accomplished a lot of what I did. No school is going to let you take time off to take technical training, or stop attending to take a full load at colleges.

To top it off, I don't think I'm an outlier. None of the homeschooled students I've met have been below average academically. I don't dispute that such students exist, but it's certainly not the norm. My oldest sister graduated at NCSU in 2 1/2 years, my brother in 3 1/2, I in 3 (NE curriculum is laid out such that it can't be done in less than 3), and one of my other sisters is about to finish NE in 3 years as well. I really don't know what my youngest sister is trying to accomplish, she put off going to a university to finish an Associate's degree.

In addition, the only socially stunted homeschooler I know is myself. That was my nature before I started homeschooling and I don't think the homeschooling made it worse. The rest of my siblings socialize normally.

I've heard people say so many times, that my family is just smart by nature and that's why we were all able to succeed as we did, but the reality is that the only "genius" was my mother's absolute dedication to the completeness and quality of our education.

There's plenty of research that has been done on whether homeschooled people are at a disadvantage. Instead of making blanket assumptions based on your limited experience, I'd encourage you to read some of it. Most of what I've read indicates no appreciable difference in social skills between homeschooled and traditionally educated students.

8/1/2008 6:22:51 PM

Quote :

"Charybdisjim The person you're attacking admitted that their assessment of home schooling was limited in scope to what she had seen. They even went as far to list what regions/demographics were particularly absent from their experiences. Forming opinions and extrapolating based on experiences is called learning. There are only so many ways to form an opinion on something; if you're going to leave out first hand experience then what do you propose? Statistics are interesting and all, but experienced adults know to distrust them as much as third hand anecdotes. Sure, numbers don't lie; statisticians and interest groups aren't numbers though. "

I don't know, maybe not jump to the conclusion that homeschoolers are socially disadvantaged on the basis of the handful that you have somehow run into.

I'll admit that my charge of hypocrisy was a little bit of a stretch, but no more than the conclusions offered on the basis of incredibly limited experience with homeschoolers.

It seems that for many people it is enough to meet one weirdo homeschooler and then jump to the conclusion that they are all a bunch of moonbats. This is narrowminded. That is the very charge that was made against the homeschoolers towards the beginning of the last page,

Quote :

"bottombaby It is a way of protecting children from society at large and teaching them a narrow view."

I found this quote ironic in the context of the criticism that was made of homeschooling by a variety of, well, I can only assume public school educated normal people. I don't expect you to get it. (now I'm trolling)

Quote :

"Charybdisjim Perhaps, if you intend to attack the basis for their opinions, you would share your own motivations and information base. Are you defensive because you were home schooled and are incensed at negative perceptions of homeschooling? Wouldn't your own opinions then be based on personal experience? What value do you believe information from a group whose job is the defense of home schooling adds? If you're backing your arguments with an article from a group whose job it is to agree with your position, how can you attack someone's basis for opinion and still keep a straight face? I don't think I could post something like that and saw what you said without rolling on the floor laughing."

Apparently you don't understand the meaning of the word "also", and also "^". The first part of that post was addressed to duro982 who wanted some statistics to back the success of the homeschooling movement. (which is somewhat independent from the myth of missed socialization)

Besides, good grief, the statistics are just quoted by HSLDA its not like they were created by HSLDA. And anyway,I'm not trying to support my contention that narrowmindedly criticizing homeschoolers for being narrowminded with HSLDA statistics. The posts on the first page are enough to start with.

What offends me is people rendering general opinions about a group they don't understand. I would contend these opinions are more the result of the culture of being an educator (public school teacher, or someone who has taken the courses and buys the hype). The experiences are seen through that narrowminded lense. If you read my posts more carefully you'll easily learn that I blame the culture of education not so much particular educators.

If I have been too mean in my statement of this criticism then I'm sorry.

But, I thought not being ignorantly critical of ill-understood minority groups was one of the champion ideals of the virtuous and open minded public school culture.

Quote :

"Are you defensive because you were home schooled and are incensed at negative perceptions of homeschooling?"

Its not who I am. Its what you guys say.

Were you public schooled?

Why not ask that question?

8/1/2008 8:17:46 PM

^ Because a person who was public schooled most likely wouldn't be so incensed over negative views of homeschooling.

If you were railing on homeschool kids and holding up public schools as the beacon of light then I'm sure someone would have asked you if you had gone to public schools.

8/2/2008 1:35:21 AM

Quote :

"In addition, you learn and develop a lot more at school that just what's taught in the curriculum. "

That interests me. Because I am the product of public school I can only imagine what kinds of skills this person refers to. One might postulate that those college students who were homeschooled may have an edge on time management skills. When one is public schooled there is a definite structure- you have solid due dates, same classes, same time, each day- that kind of thing. Homeschool though....I think there must be more flexibility there. That would almost force one to manage their time appropriately.

Thoughts?

Also whoever said, "Why isn't the question were you public schooled?"- cheers. That's a good question.

Very interesting indeed.

8/2/2008 11:05:28 AM

I was homeschooled from 6-12th grade.

I will be homeschooling my children.

1) Public schools around here suck! When my parents started, we were ranked 48th.

I was more prepared for college and a lot of my friends. Schools highly seek out home schooled children for their self discipline and motivation.

I graduated college in 5 semesters with a 4 year degree and a 3.74 GPA. I was involved in student government, 2 other organizations, and went to every home football game. I had a job on campus which I learned a great deal and TAed a Bit class.

In high school, I did many social projects and went to 10 formal dances. We did have religion in our classroom; however, we were not "fanatical". Thousands of people homeschool in this state, and a select few of less than 20 children is not a good sample size. Hell I would say less than 100 isn't either.

8/3/2008 11:56:14 AM

I think one thing people need to consider with homeschooling is that people who are homeschooled have money and lots of it. That's great that you could do this that and the other in college and high school. But I'm also going to guess that money was never an issue for you.

For a lot of us, our parents didn't even have the option of homeschooling due to finances. So to me it feels like homeschooling is the fancy of people with the money to do it. Thus, whether homeschooled or not, those kids are ones who would probably have done well academically no matter what the situation because of their socioeconomic background.

[Edited on August 3, 2008 at 11:25 PM. Reason : .]

8/3/2008 11:24:15 PM

It is not a MONEY thing.

It is a PARENT thing.


I know several families that homeschooled where both parents worked. I know of a few cases where a single parent homeschooled. They tended to buy or trade/barter for more packaged homeschooled grades. Sometimes a group of homeschoolers would pool money to hire a lab instructor to teach a unit.

If you cut out the lunch hour, study hall, changing classes and bus ride. How much time do you think you actually spent learning? How many times were their disruptions or did you not pay attention because you were bored? Did you cut class? Schools do not have to be M-F 8-3. Several days, I woke up at 5am and had school til 9 and did my worksheets/homework in the afternoon. I also did schooling on the weekends.

I had end of the year testing like the rest of North Carolina. I had to pass at grade level to achieve a "pass" for the year.

I will proudly say at the end of next May every one of my siblings and me will have a college degree. I worked and got about 60k in scholarship money.

My mom never got a college degree.She cared enough however, to give us what she did not have. She did strive every day to give us the best education that she could. If she had to stay up until 3am the night before teaching herself calculus, she did.

I know several people that graduated NC public schools that are barely passable for being a well-rounded articulate person. Is it his parents fault? Schools? Society? Now that he is a cancer on society, who failed him? I realize that this isn't every person that graduates; however, he isn't my only example. The US is falling way behind the world in primary and secondary education. Apparently, what the US is doing isn't working.

8/4/2008 7:36:40 AM

Futhermore, when I was in public school, I was considered a "problem child" and I would never amount to anything. I was actually put in a school for troublemakers. Why? I asked questions. "I was not socially adjusted" Why? I didn't hang out with girls. I played with the boys. "My parents should be happy if I graduated high school".

These are phrases from the parent teacher meeting. I would never have excelled in this kind of environment.

8/4/2008 7:41:10 AM

but you're in grad school now? Woah there, I thought the parent teacher meeting advice and school adviser was infallible. I mean, their track record is just so great...

8/4/2008 12:26:58 PM

My sarcasm meter just pinged.

8/4/2008 1:28:50 PM

I was homeschooled. If I had kids (which I won't EVER because I wouldn't know how to give a kid a normal childhood) they'd go to public school.

8/4/2008 8:07:45 PM

haha it all makes sense now

8/4/2008 8:09:37 PM

Quote :

"If I had kids (which I won't EVER because I wouldn't know how to give a kid a normal childhood) they'd go to public school."

8/5/2008 12:54:04 AM

I have been absent from TWW for about a week now, but I have read over what I missed out on. However, I just don't see the need to debate my clearly stated opinions on the topic.

I want to throw something out there for discussion. My husband and I believe that truly bright children are going to succeed in any educational environment. You shouldn't have to pull a child from public school in order for them to do well. The intellectual elite are self-taught and self-motivated. They will find a way to thrive whether they are educated publicly, privately, or at home.

I know that this is going to sound like trolling, but it isn't. I am really curious about other's thoughts on the topic because it sounds like some of the homeschoolers in this thread (and the others that I have encountered professionally) just could not cut it in the public school environment for one reason or another.

My husband and I only have our individual experiences to draw on. We were both bookish public school kids who excelled academically in our environment. We would have probably done just as well in any educational situation. The teachers and other students had little to no bearing on our success. Whenever we had a bad teacher or less than ideal peer group, we just pulled ourselves up by our bootstraps and did it ourselves. Sure, good teachers and classes facilitated learning, but the bad really didn't hinder us. The bad actually provided us valuable opportunities for growth.

8/5/2008 10:20:56 AM

Homeschooling is most beneficial for the students that are special needs and need more attention than the system can give them. The bright kids are held back because they don't get the chance to do the extracurriculars and other things to help them get into better schools they could have done in a public school.

8/5/2008 2:23:32 PM

Quote :

"could not cut it in the public school environment "

...perhaps the case is more that the public school environment could not accommodate the students identified in the statement above....?

I am so playing devil's advocate here....please don't take offense

8/5/2008 7:50:56 PM

Quote :

"The bright kids are held back because they don't get the chance to do the extracurriculars and other things to help them get into better schools they could have done in a public school."

Apparently you haven't read much of this thread.

Quote :

"I know that this is going to sound like trolling, but it isn't. I am really curious about other's thoughts on the topic because it sounds like some of the homeschoolers in this thread (and the others that I have encountered professionally) just could not cut it in the public school environment for one reason or another."

Where would you get that idea from the homeschoolers in this thread? I can't speak for anyone else, but I have never had a problem adjusting to social situations, I always excelled in school academically (99th percentile in testing, they wanted to move me up a grade, my mom chose to hold me back with my peer group, etc.), and in general I "cut it" in a school environment just fine. I realize giving my grade school resume is obnoxious, and I normally never bring it up, but it served to counter the idea that I (or plenty of other homeschoolers with a similar academic record) couldn't cut it.

I read back through the homeschooler's responses and I only see forkgirl mention that she was taken out for reasons other than just parental preference or academic goals.

Quote :

"My husband and I believe that truly bright children are going to succeed in any educational environment. You shouldn't have to pull a child from public school in order for them to do well. The intellectual elite are self-taught and self-motivated. They will find a way to thrive whether they are educated publicly, privately, or at home."

I would more or less agree with this. I think the real advantage with good homeschooling comes in designing an education that allows average and marginal students to excel.



[Edited on August 5, 2008 at 8:20 PM. Reason : d]

8/5/2008 8:08:54 PM

Quote :

" Apparently you haven't read much of this thread."

I was homeschooled, which makes me qualified to discuss this topic.

VERY few homeschooled students get as many opportunities for resume building extracurriculars as public school students. My mother was president of the homeschool support group for several years so I knew quite a bit about the other students and what they were doing.

8/6/2008 7:12:16 AM

I think that your support group is an isolated case. The Fayetteville support group, of which I was a part, was pretty much the opposite of what you describe. In fact, I would imagine most homeschoolers in Fayetteville actually were exposed to more extra curricular activities because they had a more fleixble schedule during the day. They certainly didn't have a problem attending any college they wanted or would normally have qualified for.

I also competed in debate with homeschool groups from Charlotte, Raleigh, Greensboro and other states. Their homeschool experience was similar to mine.

8/6/2008 8:38:11 AM

Quote :

"Futhermore, when I was in public school, I was considered a "problem child" and I would never amount to anything. I was actually put in a school for troublemakers. Why? I asked questions. "I was not socially adjusted" Why? I didn't hang out with girls. I played with the boys. "My parents should be happy if I graduated high school"."

Either you're omitting some important information or you went to an incredibly shitty public school. All of this could easily describe myself and friends I had in school and we were labeled as "bright" not "problem children."

8/6/2008 9:37:11 AM

I wish I had been homeschooled

I aced every class in elementary school and read books through all of them. They punished me for "not paying attention". If I don't need to pay attention to ace all the tests, why should I? I feel like I could have learned much more if I had been able to learn at my own pace.

8/6/2008 10:34:18 AM

One time in 1st grade I got a note sent home to my parents saying that I needed to behave because I was confusing other students - our teacher was going over numbers and said that 0 was the smallest number and I corrected her and said that there are negative numbers

8/6/2008 1:03:58 PM

Quote :

"I wish I had been homeschooled I aced every class in elementary school and read books through all of them. They punished me for "not paying attention". If I don't need to pay attention to ace all the tests, why should I? I feel like I could have learned much more if I had been able to learn at my own pace. "

You weren't challenged by public school--I bet you've done great in college...am I right?

8/6/2008 3:09:00 PM

I wasn't originally challenged much in public school (elementary, etc), but once people realized I needed higher-level math classes, they let me skip a grade and take a year further ahead in math. It worked out well.

[Edited on August 6, 2008 at 5:13 PM. Reason : After that I was in IB, so I was challenged plenty]

8/6/2008 5:12:13 PM

Quote :

"VERY few homeschooled students get as many opportunities for resume building extracurriculars as public school students. My mother was president of the homeschool support group for several years so I knew quite a bit about the other students and what they were doing."

Yeah, I think your support group must not have done much supporting, then. I know that both the Durham and Chapel Hill groups are very busy with activities, and there are quite a few things that families get together and do outside of the groups. For example, my brother's Odyssey of the Mind team won 3rd place in their problem division at the World Competition last year and got 6th place this year. Everyone on that team is homeschooled, and they absolutely trounced the regional and state teams.

8/6/2008 5:23:19 PM

Yeah, the area in general sucked where I was from. Huge amount of monies going into the public schools, students from high socioeconomic groups planning on going to college, and the best they could do was match the national average on the SAT. The issue that caused the most bitching in the support group was if they should pray at meetings. It was an area where pretty much only the religious nut jobs homeschooled.

8/6/2008 6:44:28 PM

Quote :

" I wish I had been homeschooled I aced every class in elementary school and read books through all of them. They punished me for "not paying attention". If I don't need to pay attention to ace all the tests, why should I? I feel like I could have learned much more if I had been able to learn at my own pace."

8/6/2008 8:39:26 PM

Areas like Durham and Chapel Hill are not exactly what I would call accurate representations of ANYTHING in North Carolina.

8/6/2008 11:14:17 PM

Quote :

"You weren't challenged by public school--I bet you've done great in college...am I right?"

I never really learned how to study or work hard, so it's been a mixed bag.

8/7/2008 12:40:54 AM

^

8/7/2008 12:44:46 AM

^^True dat.

^^^Well ok. I know that the homeschooling community in Charlotte is fucking huge and probably better than the Durham and Chapel Hill groups combined. But why wouldn't you take the examples of Durham and Chapel Hill seriously?

I forgot to mention this earlier, there's a website for the state homeschooling group, North Carolinians for Home Education: http://www.nche.com.

8/7/2008 7:54:56 AM

Quote :

"And no, I wasn't homeschooled. But I will be homeschooling. "

oh christ

i thought you couldn't get any worse

8/7/2008 10:27:30 AM

^ Disregarding all the Garage nonsense, it's basically ridiculous to say that public schools cause:

Quote :

"This is why there are legions of 25 year-old college graduates who may make a lot of money (or not), still play video games all day, have no meaningful, stable relationships outside of family (drinking buddies, hobbie companions, and an occasional steady girlfriend do NOT count), and refuse to take responsibility for their actions. It is also why the whole concept of "office drama" exists - our adults are nothing but big children, and it's partly because they are trained, socially, to be and stay children because they are clustered with their own, irresponsible kind 10 hours a day for 12 years."

I mean, if you're going to bust into other threads claiming there should be more personal accountability, yet dump "all the problems you've ever seen with 25-year-olds" (including a lack of personal responsibility!) onto the public school system, there's a big problem there. There are undoubtedly many students who come out of public schools having pushed themselves further than merely what was required of them, and they go on to succeed (I guess in your terms that's "not playing video games, getting married, being responsible," which is a very narrow view, in and of itself: you honestly think you need to be married by 25?). I'm sure of that just as much as I'm sure there are some homeschooled children who might be lazy and not take the best advantage of college. I don't think you can blame public schooling for something that is obviously dependent upon the individual's drive to succeed and adjust.

8/7/2008 2:19:25 PM

Quote :

"There are undoubtedly many students who come out of public schools having pushed themselves further than merely what was required of them, and they go on to succeed (I guess in your terms that's "not playing video games, getting married, being responsible," which is a very narrow view, in and of itself: you honestly think you need to be married by 25?). I'm sure of that just as much as I'm sure there are some homeschooled children who might be lazy and not take the best advantage of college."

Sure, there are many examples of public school students who go on to succeed and are well-adjusted. And sure, there are many homeschooled children who are lazy and don't take the best advantage of college, or even go.

Yet, recognizing specific counter-examples does not disprove an assertion about a general trend.

There is an important word in my post: partly, as in "and it's partly because they are trained, socially, to be and stay children because they are clustered with their own, irresponsible kind 10 hours a day for 12 years."

I didn't even say "primarily," because the public school factor is not even the primary cause. But, it is a significant one.

My view is very narrow on what constitutes "success." It is also right. No, I don't believe everyone needs to be married by 25, but each person should be mature enough at 25 to be married happily. That means that their personal relationships are very stable, not filled with drama (nor baby-mama-drama *cough*), and they have a good handle on the right priorities in life.

[Edited on August 7, 2008 at 2:52 PM. Reason : a]

8/7/2008 2:36:44 PM

Quote :

"Yet, recognizing specific counter-examples does not disprove an assertion about a general trend"

But the trend you suggest, "most people who went to public schools are irresponsible adults" is not a trend I see at all, regardless of the specific examples gave. I think people rely on the idea of peer pressure to explain too many phenomena: what happens in college to ALL these students should be what you're making your guess on about their lives at 25, not just the public school set. It might be the college environment overriding either home or public schooling that contributes the more, who knows. I still think it's up to the individual to succeed more than it is the peers in their age group.

And as far as what you believe is "success" for all people is obviously not right for everyone. Even setting an age limit on drama is ridiculous. If I get married when I'm 30, in a very mature relationship and we're happy for years and years but my husband cheats on me when I'm 40, you're staying there should be no drama? We can't all control exactly how stable our relationships will end up being, even if things are off to a great start. Maturity doesn't eliminate drama from your life.

[Edited on August 7, 2008 at 3:24 PM. Reason : .]

8/7/2008 3:23:44 PM

Quote :

"but each person should be mature enough at 25 to be married happily."

you really may well be the biggest--and possibly weirdest--dumbass on this board.

Please tell me you left your computer briefly unattended and some stupid hooker from Meredith College typed that.

^ agreed on all counts.

You know, it takes a really special person--and I mean that in the Down's Syndrome sort of way--to make me side 100% with StillFuchsia over you.

[Edited on August 7, 2008 at 7:48 PM. Reason : asdfasd]

[Edited on August 7, 2008 at 7:52 PM. Reason : asdfad]

[Edited on August 7, 2008 at 7:53 PM. Reason : jhgfvjhg]

8/7/2008 7:41:20 PM

Quote :

"but each person should be mature enough at 25 to be married happily."

Naive. Naive. Naive.

Quite frankly, I do not believe that homeschooling pushes children towards reaching maturity any faster than public schooling. In fact, I think that it is hindering. Children who are pushed out into the world to deal with adults and peer groups without the supervision of their parents are forced to be independent. Homeschooling may encourage a child to be an independent learner, but it does not push children to be independent in the real world. Honestly, how can you be independent when there is an inherent lack of freedom that is intrinsic to public schooling and everything is filtered through the parental lens.

An initial appearance of immaturity can only be expected because publicly schooled children are left to make autonomous decisions in their daily lives with minimal parental input. Mistakes are made, but these mistakes are a vital part of 'growing up' that can be lacking from an environment that is not peer directed.

8/7/2008 9:04:58 PM

Yep. I've met a few exceptions who made it through home-schooling seemingly unscathed, but most people I've met who were homeschooled are ridiculously socially maladjusted. No wonder this guy is a fan of it.

8/7/2008 10:01:37 PM

Quote :

"I've met a few exceptions who made it through home-schooling seemingly unscathed, but most people I've met who were homeschooled are ridiculously socially maladjusted."

You don't have to develop a thick skin when you're homeschooled. People don't ridicule you for being socially awkward, funny looking, etc. at home on a daily basis most likely.

8/7/2008 10:47:46 PM

true, but that's just the start of their problems.

8/7/2008 11:59:18 PM

Quote :

"My view is very narrow on what constitutes "success." It is also right. No, I don't believe everyone needs to be married by 25, but each person should be mature enough at 25 to be married happily. That means that their personal relationships are very stable, not filled with drama (nor baby-mama-drama *cough*), and they have a good handle on the right priorities in life."

Haha, you sound like my crazy religious mother. God wants you to get married and have babies and stay at home with them!

I'm 25 and do not want to get married, but my 24 year old boyfriend (who went to public schools) keeps on bugging me about it. Kind of blows up your stereotypes.

8/8/2008 10:57:02 AM

^I think the general point is that one would hope that 25-year-olds would be decently mature enough to handle most of what life throws at them, including marriage. The jury is still out on what kind of schooling provides the best maturity (is that supposed to be one of the goals of schooling?). You can find both excellent and bad examples in all kinds of schooling, there's just too many factors involved to say home > public or whatever other comparison you want to make.

It's a good choice for some people and it doesn't work for others. I guess that's my bottom line.

8/8/2008 12:04:42 PM

Quote :

"My view is very narrow on what constitutes "success." It is also right. No, I don't believe everyone needs to be married by 25, but each person should be mature enough at 25 to be married happily. That means that their personal relationships are very stable, not filled with drama (nor baby-mama-drama *cough*), and they have a good handle on the right priorities in life."

That seems like a pretty ignorant way of viewing things. Mature enough to be married happily? What does that even mean? 25 seems like an arbitrary number and I don't see where you're coming up with that.

8/8/2008 12:34:10 PM

Yeah, but maturity is cyclical. My parents forced me to have a lot while I was growing up so I'm in a do what I want don't give a shit phase now.

8/8/2008 12:57:19 PM

lol it shows

8/8/2008 1:18:34 PM

Quote :

"You know, it takes a really special person--and I mean that in the Down's Syndrome sort of way--to make me side 100% with StillFuchsia over you."

they always come around

8/8/2008 1:51:37 PM