Quote :

"no, you can but regular in it. it wont get as much performance, but it will get better gas mileage, and you wont hurt your car. unless its a damn old car, but anything in the last 10 years will know what type of gas is in it and adjust accordingly."

pretty much wrong. it will not get better gas mileage and it could hurt your car. a lot of cars that say they need premium mean it and can't adjust enough for regular..especially when you get a tank of extra shitty watered down regular.. you can't adjust compression ratios (obviously), only ignition timing... a lot of times you can adjust it enough to get rid of spark knock but it's still not the best idea

hell even in my lincoln LS it spark knocks like crazy if I try to run 87.. and I get better mileage out of 93 so it comes out the same price or cheaper

5/16/2008 7:59:20 AM

if you don't have 70-100k to blow on a sports car that is electric:



Coming 2010:

Lotus - ZAP-X

Approximate MSRP: $60,000

The fun, compact, and affordable electric vehicle.
APX Light Weight Aluminum
Architecture Design
Electronic Braking System (EBS)
Rack and Pinion Steering
Solar Glass
Lithium Batteries
(Bio-degradable Non-Explosive)
Power Windows
Power Door Locks
Power Steering
GPS
On Board Carputer with Full Entertainment System
Length: 15 4 (4697 mm)
Width: 6 8 (1852 mm)
Wheel base: 8 9 (2700 mm)
Track: Front 5 1(1554 mm)
Rear 5 1(1556 mm)

--



ZAP Alias


ALIAS EXPECTED DELIVERY IN 2009
Approximate MSRP: $32,500
General Info
Development Updates:
• CAD Walk-a-round: http://www.zapworld.com/files/news/ZAP_AliasVideo.wmv
• Prototype now being developed. See presentation here:
http://www.investorideas.com/Forums/Media/Green2/zaap/default.aspx

Performance
• 0 – 60 mph : 7.7 seconds
• Vmax: 100 mph
• EV range: 100+ miles (160.9 kilometer)
• Vehicle kerb mass: 1612.6 lbs (733 kg)

Safety
ZAP-3 Homologated as a motorcycle with Enhanced safety features
• Seatbelts
• Roll hoop

[Edited on May 16, 2008 at 9:17 AM. Reason : .]

5/16/2008 9:15:52 AM

^ That second one looks like it belongs in a comic book movie.

5/16/2008 9:29:06 AM

gas has become positively absurd. my girlfriends dad spent over 1million on gas alone last week for his company. Gas used to cost him 500/week for each delivery vehicle. now its 800/fill up.

small business owners really take it hard.

5/16/2008 10:44:42 AM

Quote :

" pretty much wrong. it will not get better gas mileage and it could hurt your car. a lot of cars that say they need premium mean it and can't adjust enough for regular..especially when you get a tank of extra shitty watered down regular.. you can't adjust compression ratios (obviously), only ignition timing... a lot of times you can adjust it enough to get rid of spark knock but it's still not the best idea hell even in my lincoln LS it spark knocks like crazy if I try to run 87.. and I get better mileage out of 93 so it comes out the same price or cheaper"

how old is your car? modern cars should be able to adjust for any knocking by adjusting how and when the spark plug fires. and adjusting the O2 and gas ratios. at least that is what I have read. the owners manual always says to use premium if the car can handle it because it will give it the most HP, and a manufacturer wouldnt want complaints about power loss because people use lesser gas.

now, if you have a very nice sports car, or if you have anything turbocharged or supercharged, I wouldnt know much about how the extra pressure could be adjusted.

5/16/2008 11:02:39 AM

^What manual is that out of, I don't think you're quoting them. Sure any modern engine can run on pretty much any octane from 87-94 but it will run BEST on the octane its designed for. So if its designed for 91 then you will not get better mileage when running 87

Quote :

"those tesla engineers have their collective head up their ass about that car they have unrealistic assembly costs you noticed that they shot for about $70k and now they are north of $100k"

They're still not in production.

5/16/2008 12:11:30 PM

I think next time I fill up I will finally pass the $50 mark

There are a bunch of ways to save gas, though, and save chunks of money
http://www.ecojoes.com/how-to-increase-your-car-mpg/
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=522498&page=1

5/16/2008 12:30:36 PM

a lot of the premium brands say they require it for prestige.

my moms drove an infiniti that said "premium only"

i drive a maxima that says "For maximum performance..."


same engine.


turbos are different though.

5/16/2008 12:47:54 PM

^Yeah they're the same engine but if you'll notice they have different hp ratings. There are minor differences between the engines in the timing, intake and exhaust that are responsible for this.

They don't do it "just b/c"

It doesn't take a genius to know how to improve your gas mileage a little bit for free.
-clean your air filter more often (of course not everyone uses reuesable filters)
-keep your tires properly inflated (or on the high end of the acceptable range for ever more savings)
-don't carry around unnecessary weight inside your car
-don't always leave your AC on.

[Edited on May 16, 2008 at 12:54 PM. Reason : tada!]

5/16/2008 12:50:38 PM

$63 got me 15.95 gallons of premium (20 gal. tank). Its not THAT hard to get it to land exactly on a whole dollar amount. Heaven forbid if you somehow manage to fuck it up AFTER you prepay But seriously, having a big v8 is fun, tho expensive

I'm going to shit my pants the day that I have to pay $100 for a tank of gas in this damn car

[Edited on May 16, 2008 at 12:54 PM. Reason : boo hoo ]

5/16/2008 12:52:10 PM

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/fueleconomy/articles/106293/article.html

5/16/2008 1:07:52 PM

Quote :

"small business owners really take it hard."

i'll give you that, but i won't blame it on gas. i really don't think any small business owner would (except those who are just in the middle of a rant)

to hell with gas... those guys pay way too much tax, especially on their property, and get stuck with some shitty labels.

5/16/2008 1:18:55 PM

It's amazing that it took this much to get people to finally come to their senses about the need to research alternative energy sources.

5/16/2008 1:20:43 PM

ha, more like it's amazing that these nuclear power people just finally looked up the price on a plant. guess froogle makes it easier.

5/16/2008 1:22:08 PM

^^^^http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/features_classic_cars/regular_or_premium_feature

I'll take C&D's word over Edmunds any day.

5/16/2008 1:43:19 PM

Quote :

"remember when gas was $1.00/gallon?"

Yup! It was $.76 or less my junior year in HS in my hometown!! Good ol' Harnett County had the cheap gas, but nothing is cheap anymore. Grrrrr!!! They are killing me, especially since I'm having to drive from Raleigh to Sanford and back every day for chiropractor appts!! RIDIC!!!


I could fill up on my Honda with $13. WHAT?!?!?!!? NOT NOW.

[Edited on May 16, 2008 at 1:51 PM. Reason : .]

5/16/2008 1:50:48 PM

these oil prices can go to hell.

fuck you saudi arabia.

5/16/2008 1:50:49 PM

^^have you considered getting a new chiropractor?

Quote :

"The biggest difference between today's gas and the gas sold 15 years ago is the removal of lead. Taking out the lead, and developing effective catalytic converters to more completely burn emissions, have radically cut pollution."

From that Edmunds article. WTF?! I'm pretty sure leaded gas wasn't sold at the pump 15 yrs agol, lol.

[Edited on May 16, 2008 at 2:04 PM. Reason : k]

5/16/2008 2:03:09 PM

What are some good scooters to get that won't break the bank?

5/16/2008 2:36:30 PM

^ I have a Yamaha C3. It's a little expensive ($1,999 new, but you can haggle it down), but you can find used scooters all over the place for <$1000. I went with the C3 b/c it has the most storage space. It looks kinda odd, but I don't always have to have a backpack.

$1000 sounds like a lot for a scooter, but I pay $4 for gas for a whole week when I would pay $50ish with my car. You cut even in less than 6 months.

[Edited on May 16, 2008 at 2:48 PM. Reason : ]

5/16/2008 2:43:20 PM

Quote :

"or if you have anything turbocharged"

wimper

^^ you're worried about breaking the bank buying a scooter? really?

[Edited on May 16, 2008 at 2:44 PM. Reason : ^]

5/16/2008 2:44:32 PM

I wouldn't mind getting a moped or scooter as long as I could drive it on the beltline and US-70

5/16/2008 2:46:22 PM

Quote :

"^What manual is that out of, I don't think you're quoting them. Sure any modern engine can run on pretty much any octane from 87-94 but it will run BEST on the octane its designed for. So if its designed for 91 then you will not get better mileage when running 87"

My mistake. Running a car on lower octane will NOT give you better mileage. You will get the same mileage and less peak HP. But premium costs more, so you will get more miles per $ with regular.

Quote :

"It doesn't take a genius to know how to improve your gas mileage a little bit for free. -clean your air filter more often (of course not everyone uses reuesable filters) -keep your tires properly inflated (or on the high end of the acceptable range for ever more savings) -don't carry around unnecessary weight inside your car -don't always leave your AC on."

Actually, some of this is incorrect. I recently read an article debunking a few of these.
Cleaning your air filter does not increase your mileage. Like increasing your type of gas, it DOES increase overall performance. But the way modern car CPUs work (forget the name of the chip, ECU? hah), it will match the O2 levels to the gas levels for the right mixture.

Keeping your tires inflated increases gas mileage. But if you inflate them very close or past max, then you are losing a lot of traction in turning, accel, and braking, which is extremely dangerous.

The weight thing is spot on. More mass = more energy.

AC takes more gas. It decreases efficiency about 1mpg with it on. This was shown to be the case regardless of the type of car you drive (SUV or compact). It isnt all that much these days since AC units have gotten very efficient. Also, AC does NOT use more gas than driving with the windows down. Especially at highway speeds, rolling down the windows increases drag exponentially the faster you go. So around town at 30-40, windows dont matter much, but at 70 or 80, it will decrease your mpg by quite a bit.

5/16/2008 2:49:25 PM

^^ there are some that will do upwards of 60-70 mph. You have to have tags and insurance, though.

[Edited on May 16, 2008 at 2:49 PM. Reason : ^s]

5/16/2008 2:49:40 PM

no way it hasnt been asked before, but here's my question:

when i started driving... well, when i first remember the prices in 8/95 or so, it was:

87 -- $0.899/gal
89 -- $0.999/gal (11.1% higher than regular)
93 -- $1.099/gal (22.2% higher than regular)

(i love using the extra decimal place like they do!) anyways, last time i filled up, 5/08, it was:

87 -- $3.599/gal
89 -- $3.699/gal (2.78% higher than regular)
93 -- $3.799/gal (5.56% higher than regular)

why have midgrade and premium stayed fixed at 10 and 20 cents per gallon higher than regular, no matter the price? seems to be another argument that the oil companies aren't the ones doing the dry rape. but i'm far from an expert, just don't have anything to do while i pump gas buit look and think.

am i doing my math wrong, am i missing something? if you look at it in the terms of the old price, it seems like people are missing a decent deal if they are buying 87 but could see improvement with a higher octane

ps somewhere on the way out west, they had like 86, 88, all sorts of strange numbers.

5/16/2008 2:51:59 PM

I think its BS that they charge more for premium gasoline, considering octane doesn't really add any cost to the fuel.

Quote :

"Keeping your tires inflated increases gas mileage. But if you inflate them very close or past max, then you are losing a lot of traction in turning, accel, and braking, which is extremely dangerous."

Well of course! I know most people in this forum are smart, but I guess I should be specific. Most OEMs recommend tire pressure around 30-32psi. Most tires maximum pressure is above 50. I'd suggest inflating them up to or close to 40psi. You will notice no difference other than a hard ride.

I dunno where you got from that article that you'll get identical fuel mileage regardless of recommended fuel, but okay.

The AC VS windows open test was done on Mythbusters, and was busted

[Edited on May 16, 2008 at 3:14 PM. Reason : k]

5/16/2008 3:13:23 PM

Quote :

"jesus, i drive a tahoe, what the hell do you drive that only gets half of a tank off of 80 dollars? an abrams tank? "

my suburban holds about 46~ gallons so he probably has something similar

my pick up truck holds about 25ish though and get's slightly better gas mileage... I tried to fill up the other day, and the machine cut off at 75 bucks, and that didn't even fill my tank all the way (i was at about 4/5 a tank)... shit's getting silly

i'd like to get a moped, but the money i would spend on that is more than the increase in the price of gas is truly affecting me. I just find myself limiting my frivolous trips

5/16/2008 3:20:46 PM

Quote :

"I dunno where you got from that article that you'll get identical fuel mileage regardless of recommended fuel, but okay. The AC VS windows open test was done on Mythbusters, and was busted"

actually it was just an article on digg's front page, so i guess it isnt exactly 100% trustworthy.

in what way was it busted? the fact that windows down on the highway is worse for mpg makes perfect sense, whether or not ac is cheaper is the real question.

5/16/2008 3:44:52 PM

^worse than windows up sure, but its not really diferent than using the AC. Thats the rumor.

They put a car on an oval test track and went through a tank at the same speed, once with windows down (no AC) and once with windows up (AC on). Windows down and no AC came out better. I don't recall the speed but I think it was around 70. Now obviously if you go faster wind resistance becomes more of an issue and can skew things.

5/16/2008 3:53:21 PM

thanks for the reply. i found a website in the last few minutes explaining that myth actually:

Quote :

"REVISITED: Running a car with air conditioning on is more fuel efficient than running with the windows down. (From episode 22) partly confirmed The fundamental flaw in the MythBusters’ test was that the point where the drag becomes powerful enough to inhibit a car’s performance with windows down was inside their 45 - 55mph margin at 50mph. Going less than 50mph it is more efficient to leave your windows down, but going greater than 50mph it is more efficient to use your A/C. "

so 50mph, which is pretty much highway/no-highway

5/16/2008 3:58:54 PM

^nice job looking it up. Yeah I don't really know anyone that goes 50 on the highway, lol.

5/16/2008 4:30:58 PM

Mythbusters is bullshit. They test a myth by converting many variables into constants so they can run one experiment, and then make a sweeping claim that the whole myth is true or false. What a joke.

5/16/2008 5:02:32 PM

i just found out that i spend less per mile when i buy premium. i ran tests of each 3 times and holy crap

in conclusion, i save money by buying the more expensive fuel.

5/16/2008 6:10:24 PM