Questions during a traffic stop are always part of a fishing expedition. He's trying to find things to pin on you. It's never just small talk. I would answer questions like where am I going, where have I been, etc. with "it's private, I'd rather not discuss it." You also don't have to answer if asked whether you've been drinking or how much you've had. All you have to answer (I think) is questions related to the accuracy of your license & registration. Be sure to advise your passengers not to answer probing questions, and to keep quiet.

Cops do need PC to search, or the owner's permission. Cops sometimes just claim they have PC by saying they smell alcohol or marijuana, which is often a lie. Or the occupant gives permission, ignorant of his rights. I'd like to hear more about exactly what happened in the Texas incident.

Sometimes cops say "I can get a warrant," which fools a lot of people into consenting, but if he had to ask for permission in the first place, that means he doesn't have probable cause, which he needs to get a warrant, so he can't get a warrant. If he had probable cause in the first place, he would be able to search without a warrant or permission.

REMEMBER: Refusing a search does not give the cop reasonable suspicion to continue to detain you beyond the original purpose for the stop. This was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in the case of U.S. v. Manuel in 1993.

If you're patted down, the cop can only reach in your clothing if he feels something that could be a weapon. He can't pull out your wallet and go through it, or search your cell phone.

Also: You have to keep asking if you're free to go. If he says no, he is required (if asked) to tell you his "reasonable articulable suspicion" for continuing to detain you. I forgot this important point the last time I was stopped, and I was there for 45 minutes. I did refuse permission to search. I wasn't hiding anything, it was a matter of principle. I don't want a stranger poking around in my car.

I'm not really sure about sobriety tests. The law is a little vague. I would take a breathalyzer, which is fairly accurate and objective, but I would refuse to participate in any other subjective roadside tests.

8/7/2008 9:37:10 AM

The friendliest thing to do would be to not pull the person over in the first place.

8/7/2008 9:38:31 AM

I forgot to mention: The North Carolina Supreme Court ruled in the case of State v. Branch that during a traffic stop, an officer must have separate reasonable suspicion that a person possesses illegal substances before he can detain the person while waiting for a K-9 unit to show up.

So unless he smells something or you or your passengers appear to be stoned, he can't make you wait for a drug sniffing dog if it's not already there. If he says he's going to call for Officer Sniffy, and he has no reason to do so, tell him you want to be on your way and ask if you're free to go. He has to tell you no and say what reasonable suspicion he has to keep you there, or let you go.

8/7/2008 9:45:54 AM

^Yeah, but that one sucks. All an officer has to say is, "Hmm, I think I smell something funny" and detain you for hours.

8/7/2008 10:13:12 AM

^ I know, and cops wonder why no one likes them. I say it over and over, if we legalized all recreational drugs, police would have far fewer opportunities to abuse citizens.

8/7/2008 10:23:30 AM

^^ I'm gonna call da cops you like weed

8/7/2008 9:31:39 PM

^Go ahead. I've never smoked it a day in my life, nor been around anyone who was. But there's no question it should be legal.

8/7/2008 9:46:52 PM

^

8/7/2008 10:20:26 PM

I go the polite route...even if i know i'm getting a ticket. He's just doing his job.

The last time I got pulled I was doing well over 80 on a country road about 1 mile from VIR...speed limit was 55 i think. And a undercover trooper had to pull a u-turn and pulled me over. I was very polite and told him I was late for a drivers meeting at VIR. He handed me back my stuff without ever going back to his car and told me to be safe.

8/8/2008 12:02:17 AM

thread is kinda scary

silence is exercising your rights, and i wish more and more people would exercise their rights so we can get rid of statements like this:

why are you hiding something?
what is it helping?

i don't trust someone i don't know, and i for sure as hell don't want to talk to someone who does not extend to me common courtesy

good job TULIPlovr

8/8/2008 12:32:00 AM

I know! Privacy isn't about having something to hide. It's about the right to be left the hell alone and not have your private affairs, property, or papers snooped around in by strangers. How would you react if you stopped for gas and a stranger approached you out of nowhere and asked you where you'd been, where you were going, whom you were meeting, how do you know them, etc.?

And how does it help you to consent to a search, or answer every question? They're looking for evidence, because most cops have the "Us vs. Them" mentality, where everyone is a suspect, and if you're not in bed by 11PM you must be up to no good. Many cops are not above planting evidence during a search, in which case you're fucked. The last time I was stopped, I noticed the cop touch the side of my car with his hand as he approached. Did he just have his hand on a bag of weed in his pocket, smearing the smell on the car in case a dog was called in? I'll never know.

8/8/2008 12:01:32 PM

cops arent there to help you, they are there to create a prosecutable case against you

8/8/2008 12:13:44 PM

If only they followed Robocop's prime laws:

Quote :

" 1. "Serve the public trust" 2. "Protect the innocent" 3. "Uphold the law" 4. (Classified) "

8/8/2008 12:59:57 PM

^^^ This happened to me once.

He was a nice guy and gave me a warning for "reckless driving," which meant I had switched lanes without a turn signal at a tricky interection while he was 20 yards back. Had he not "depressed his brake pedal, we would have collided."

Anyway,

He touched the back of my windshield (I drive an SUV), and I asked him why he had very obviously made a point to touch my car.

He told me that his thumbprint was now on my dusty window in case anything happened to him, they could find out that he had pulled me over. Or something. Very vague, seemed superstitious if anything.

[Edited on August 8, 2008 at 1:31 PM. Reason : syntax]

[Edited on August 8, 2008 at 1:31 PM. Reason : fuck]

8/8/2008 1:29:49 PM

Quote :

"The last time I was stopped, I noticed the cop touch the side of my car with his hand as he approached.Did he just have his hand on a bag of weed in his pocket, smearing the smell on the car in case a dog was called in? I'll never know."

Haha

http://www.google.com/search?q=why+cops+touch+car

Nothing so sinister (i'm not even sure that would work either).

8/8/2008 1:33:07 PM

I think it's a bit over the top trying to stay silent during a traffic stop, I've been pulled over 6 times and only twice did the officer initiate a conversation. In neither circumstance did the cop try and find incriminating evidence.

In the first instance, the cop actually gave me advice, (because I told him I had never got a ticket). He told me to call the D.A. and see if I could get it reduced or dropped, but it would probably not happen because the county was trying to fill their next defensive driving class, which was later confirmed.

The second time the cop was a jackass and pulled his gun and me and the gf at the time. There was no ticket issued in that incident.

I think the advice to be silent is more plausible during a criminal investigation and not a traffic stop. Though, I don't think that you should offer any more information than is asked.

[Edited on August 8, 2008 at 2:15 PM. Reason : []

8/8/2008 2:13:58 PM

Quote :

"In the first instance, the cop actually gave me advice, (because I told him I had never got a ticket). He told me to call the D.A. and see if I could get it reduced or dropped,"

THat's actually good advice. You can also write the DA a letter.

Quote :

"I think the advice to be silent is more plausible during a criminal investigation and not a traffic stop. Though, I don't think that you should offer any more information than is asked. "

This is true, but a traffic stop is good practice.

[Edited on August 8, 2008 at 2:30 PM. Reason : ]

8/8/2008 2:30:03 PM

I guess you have to make a quick assessment of the whole situation. If your answer to "where are you going" is work, or the grocery store, or some other mundane thing, and it's not the middle of the night, then it might not hurt to answer. If you're going to or from a party, going to a friend's house, or something that can be remotely connected to criminal activity, keep it to yourself. Going to a friend's house? That means you're going to do drugs, so you've probably got drugs in the car. A party? You're probably drunk right now! So you're from out of town/out of state? You must be a drug mule!

Factor in things like the time of day or night, where you are and where you're from, how your car looks, and how you look. If you look like a hippie, a college student, a poor person, or anything other than a pole-up-your-ass white republican, the cop is going to make assumptions. God help you if you're black, or driving a shitty car in a rich neighborhood.

The first thing the cop said when I was stopped was "Let me see your hands!" So I knew he'd already decided I was up to no good. And this was at 8:30 in the morning.

[Edited on August 8, 2008 at 2:37 PM. Reason : ::]

8/8/2008 2:34:38 PM

^ Yea in that second incident, he asked us to hold our hands out the window. I think it was because we were laughing when he was approaching the car. When my gf said that he was being unreasonable (while all 4 of our hands were out the windows) he pulled out his gun.

The reason why we were laughing:

He pulled her over for cutting into the center lane about a foot while making a left turn. He just so happened to be pulling up to the red light in that particular turning lane that she cut into. He turned his lights on and did a 180 burnout creating a cloud of smoke while we pulled into a shopping center 100 feet after the turn. We were pulled into a parking spot by the time he was pulling into the parking lot, tires squealing, sirens blazing and all. He was then way too animated with the anger getting out of the car and he literally looked like . I made the mistake of saying to her something along the lines of "is steam coming out of that dude's ears?" as he was stomping towards the car, which propmpted the laughter.

8/8/2008 3:42:15 PM

Quote :

"If an officer walked up to me and asked for my ID then walked back to his car and came back with a ticket then left without saying anything else I would consider that rude. He's not wrong in doing that, but Ive found that I get a lot further with people by killin them with kindness "

I got two speeding tickets in 2006, one in raleigh, one in henderson county. Both were exactly like this. The officer walked up to my window, informed me that he had pulled me for speeding, took my license back to his car, came back a few minutes with the ticket and sent me on my way. They basically left no opportunity for me to say anything.

8/9/2008 11:14:19 AM

probably because they hear too many bullshit stories and they just weren't in the mood for it. Now if you have a woman in labor or were seriously injured or something and were speeding to the hospital I think that would become readily apparent when they walk up to the car. Other than that and maybe a few other scenarios, there is really no need for them to hear your side of the story.

8/9/2008 11:23:33 AM

Yea there are some officers I work with like on the traffic team where all they do is write tickets all day long. they will walk up and give you the ticket and might not say anything at all. Again its not wrong its just not how I do things. And yes in basic academy they teach all law enforcement to touch the back of the car once while walking up to the car. In case something happens to the officer his fingerprint is on the car. Its more of an old school tactic before we had cameras and microphones all in the car.

Quote :

"They're looking for evidence, because most cops have the "Us vs. Them" mentality, where everyone is a suspect, and if you're not in bed by 11PM you must be up to no good. Many cops are not above planting evidence during a search, in which case you're fucked. "

Are you messing or do you actually believe this?? and yes on a traffic stop the officer can not keep you any longer then the point of the original stop. Most traffic stops are 10-15 minutes. If it goes longer then 20-30 minutes then theres normally has to be something more to keep the person detained longer. Also as far as searching a person or car, doesnt matter if I have enough to search it already or not I usually ask anyways. If the person gives me permission then theres no ifs and or butts about it.

8/9/2008 3:35:40 PM

if the person DOESNT give you permission to search, then what do you do?

8/11/2008 2:01:22 PM

You act like a passive aggressive pig and give them the biggest fine you possibly can for the speeding ticket.

8/11/2008 2:06:02 PM

Quote :

"The last time I was stopped, I noticed the cop touch the side of my car with his hand as he approached. Did he just have his hand on a bag of weed in his pocket, smearing the smell on the car in case a dog was called in? I'll never know."

Hot damn. Were you wearing your tinfoil hat when you were pulled over?

8/11/2008 3:08:41 PM

i was told if you are helpful and talk to police like they note that and the punishment is not as bad or its a lesser charge than if you are stubborn and dont help

8/11/2008 3:20:27 PM

They want you to be as talkative as possible. That way they can bust you with as many charges as they want.

8/11/2008 3:37:21 PM

I see no reason not to be forthcoming about the mundane details of my life when it has the potential to not get me a ticket.

Maybe that's not everyone's deal, but as far as I'm concerned I'd rather have the amount of money a speeding ticket costs than the pride of knowing that I didn't tell a cop that I was going to Lowes to pick up some cold cuts.

8/11/2008 3:44:46 PM

When I refused permission to search, he asked why, and I answered "it's my right under the 4th amendment to the U.S. Constitution and I take it seriously". He answered "Ok, well, I'm going to exercise my constitutional right and investigate this, because that's my job, to investigate this." This was his attempt at a witty retort.

This whole thing was because my Crown Victoria had a CB antenna, and he was trying to say my car resembled a law enforcement vehicle. I've had a CB radio in all my daily drivers since I was 18. Maybe it does look like an unmarked unit, but unmarked cars are used to blend in with traffic and look like civilian cars. Therefore, my civilian vehicle resembles a law enforcement vehicle which resembles a civilian vehicle? Anyway, I already knew that the law only prohibits a red or blue light, lettering, insignia, or coloration that resemble a cop car, which of course I didn't have. I wish this dumb Barney had actually read the law that he's employed to enforce.

8/11/2008 3:51:10 PM

Quote :

"He pulled her over for cutting into the center lane about a foot while making a left turn. He just so happened to be pulling up to the red light in that particular turning lane that she cut into. He turned his lights on and did a 180 burnout creating a cloud of smoke while we pulled into a shopping center 100 feet after the turn. We were pulled into a parking spot by the time he was pulling into the parking lot, tires squealing, sirens blazing and all. He was then way too animated with the anger getting out of the car and he literally looked like . I made the mistake of saying to her something along the lines of "is steam coming out of that dude's ears?" as he was stomping towards the car, which propmpted the laughter."

awesome, i didnt know they allowed 6 year olds to drive in tandem

what state is this?

8/11/2008 3:52:01 PM

I was driving to work one morning and doing about 65-70 on the curvy part of lake Boone trail (fun!) then realized that Lacy elementry was in and the cops where right there. I was sooooo busted!! luckily the cop only gave me 9 over 35 so it wouldn't affect my insurrance.

8/11/2008 8:27:11 PM

got pulled over friday in SC on the way to Charleston doing 86 in a 65. The officer was really nice about it. I was honest and told him I was speeding but my speedometer said I was doing some where in the neighborhood of 79-81. So he gave me the option of two different tickets...a ~$200 fine that reports the speed I was traveling or a ~$300 fine that doesn't report the speed. I chose the second...so he goes back to his car for a minute... comes back and says "happy birthday" and hands me a warning instead of an actual ticket. I have found that being polite and co-operative yields better results.

then he made me raise my right hand and swear i won't speed for the rest of the trip...

Quote :

"The last time I was stopped, I noticed the cop touch the side of my car with his hand as he approached. Did he just have his hand on a bag of weed in his pocket, smearing the smell on the car in case a dog was called in? I'll never know."

I had a cop touch my car as he approached too...I don't think there is a reason behind it other than he touched your car. I think some people are reading too much into these little things.

[Edited on August 11, 2008 at 8:44 PM. Reason : .]

8/11/2008 8:41:27 PM

nvm, misread i think

[Edited on August 11, 2008 at 8:52 PM. Reason : asdf]

8/11/2008 8:52:20 PM

"Rumor" is that they do that to leave their fingerprints on the vehicle in case they are shot and/or killed.

8/11/2008 11:23:29 PM

Quote :

"I have found that being polite and co-operative yields better results."

Most people who advocate giving them the silent treatment recognize this, if "better results" means "less likely to get a ticket," rather than "less likely to be butt-fucked by the legal system with a lot more than a speeding violation."

8/12/2008 9:41:02 AM

Like I said, assess the situation and make a judgment call. If your answers to where you're going, where you've been, are anything not mundane or routine, and not immediately supported by your direction or time of travel, keep it to yourself. Most questions are followed by additional questions anyway, which gets annoying and intrusive.

Where are you going?
Work.
Where's work?
XYZ Inc.
Where's that?
Highwoods Blvd.
You're headed to work at 11:30 at night?
I work the night shift for a 24-hour customer service line.
So why are you headed away from there?
I want to get coffee at the gas station up the road.
The gas station that got robbed 3 nights ago at 11:30PM and the robber swore he'd come back? You have anything to do with that?

You see how it can quickly turn to shit.

8/12/2008 10:22:25 AM

Quote :

"awesome, i didnt know they allowed 6 year olds to drive in tandem what state is this?"

NC... I forgot to mention that the major reason the smoke out of the ear comment prompted laughter was because from our point of view, the cloud of smoke from the cop's burnout was rising in the background around his head, with Farva like anger that was too much. The more I think about, 16 is really too young to be driving... for many people.

8/12/2008 10:27:20 AM

if you have nothing to hide then don't act like you do.

8/12/2008 11:13:23 AM

I do have things to hide - namely everything but what is on my license and registration.

If some random homeless dude stops me at a gas station and asks where I'm going and why, or if I've had anything to drink that night....my answer is ignore it and walk away, or to add a "fuck off" and walk away.

When the cop asks questions about such things, I'll treat him no differently than any other random stranger I don't feel like explaining my whole life to.

8/12/2008 11:26:03 AM

It's sad when the majority of police anecdotes are "here's how the cop was a dick" or "here's how he abused his power." In fact, I've never heard of an anecdote about a cop doing something positively remarkable.

8/12/2008 11:59:18 AM

When I've needed them to be good, they have been very, very good. Response times in the two instances I've called 911 were outstanding.

Unfortunately, the way they occupy their time between emergencies is almost always counterproductive and wrong. There are more 'normal' times than emergencies, and that's why the anecdotes are tilted the way they are.

8/12/2008 12:06:11 PM

Quote :

"If some random homeless dude stops me at a gas station and asks where I'm going and why, or if I've had anything to drink that night....my answer is ignore it and walk away, or to add a "fuck off" and walk away. When the cop asks questions about such things, I'll treat him no differently than any other random stranger I don't feel like explaining my whole life to."

These sentences contradict each other.

8/12/2008 6:25:05 PM

no they dont

8/12/2008 6:33:25 PM

Quote :

"I do have things to hide - namely everything but what is on my license and registration. If some random homeless dude stops me at a gas station and asks where I'm going and why, or if I've had anything to drink that night....my answer is ignore it and walk away, or to add a "fuck off" and walk away. When the cop asks questions about such things, I'll treat him no differently than any other random stranger I don't feel like explaining my whole life to."

lol? that is by far the dumbest thing i've read all day. You are comparing a homeless person to a police officer? If you aren't breaking any laws... then you won't get pulled over. Regardless of how 'minor' you think your actions are, you are still breaking a law. You sound like someone who has plenty to hide.

8/12/2008 8:35:09 PM

Quote :

"You are comparing a homeless person to a police officer?"

Well, I know it's a bad comparison in that homeless folks don't break the law nearly as much as the cops.

Quote :

"If you aren't breaking any laws... then you won't get pulled over."

Haha, FALSE. Let a poor black guy in a beater drive through a rich neighborhood at 3 a.m. He will be pulled whether there is a violation or not. Same with a white guy in a 'black' neighborhood at night. Or, anybody who is anywhere at any time during the last 5 days of the month. You are naive in the extreme.

Quote :

"You sound like someone who has plenty to hide."

Not at all. Never done drugs nor been around anyone who was using. I've never been to a party where there was underage drinking, nor did I drink underage. In fact, I don't even think I can actually name the name of a person I know who has done drugs, or even been drunk in years, let alone driven drunk or underage.

I have no idea what marijuana smells like. I've never stolen so much as a pen from my employer, and I bill my time accurately down to the minute, when I could easily increase my own gross pay by 30+%. I routinely piss off others on the road for religiously following the speed limit, or even driving slightly slower to save gas. I come to a full stop at every stop sign.

But I still have plenty to hide....and that is still whatever falls under the category "not on my license or registration."

8/12/2008 9:33:13 PM

Quote :

"Haha, FALSE. Let a poor black guy in a beater drive through a rich neighborhood at 3 a.m. He will be pulled whether there is a violation or not. Same with a white guy in a 'black' neighborhood at night. Or, anybody who is anywhere at any time during the last 5 days of the month. You are naive in the extreme."

another poor example. a poor black guy in a beater driving through a rich neighborhood at 3 a.m. has shady written all over it. In fact I would hold the police responsible if they didn't pull him over and see what he's up to. Not that him being black has anything to do with it. Someone that looks like he doesn't belong there and at an odd hour should be pulled over. Its for safety. If he's truly innocent then there is no harm done with him getting pulled over and questioned.

and white guy in a black neighborhood is just dumb to say. If it was a rich guy in a nice car in a really run down gang neighborhood then yes, he is also up to no good because he's probably trying to score some dope.

[Edited on August 13, 2008 at 12:09 AM. Reason : .]

8/13/2008 12:08:34 AM

I'll agree that it's common sense to be suspicious of someone who "doesn't belong" in an environment, but the reason we have civil liberties is to protect people who are innocent of any wrongdoing, and to let them travel without hindrance or harassment. We can't give law enforcement the power to stop and question people just because they "don't look right," or else everyone merely going about his lawful business could be stopped, questioned, and searched just because he went somewhere he "doesn't belong."

I'm an upper-middle-class white man who's driven through some shitty neighborhoods before, either because of being unfamiliar with the area, or because google maps directed me there, or because it's the quickest route to my destination. I wasn't looking for drugs or hookers, and I wouldn't want to be stopped and questioned.

8/13/2008 9:07:17 AM

Quote :

"another poor example. a poor black guy in a beater driving through a rich neighborhood at 3 a.m. has shady written all over it. In fact I would hold the police responsible if they didn't pull him over and see what he's up to. Not that him being black has anything to do with it. Someone that looks like he doesn't belong there and at an odd hour should be pulled over. Its for safety. If he's truly innocent then there is no harm done with him getting pulled over and questioned. and white guy in a black neighborhood is just dumb to say. If it was a rich guy in a nice car in a really run down gang neighborhood then yes, he is also up to no good because he's probably trying to score some dope."

Yet you said

Quote :

"If you aren't breaking any laws... then you won't get pulled over"

So, both of my examples involve individuals who are breaking no laws, but yet will be pulled over. In fact, you advocate pulling them over just because they are somewhere they don't belong. By the way, "not belonging" is not proper justification for a stop.

This means my examples were perfect - they showed you that your previous statement was obviously wrong, and now you probably want to retract it.

I agree further 'observation' may be in order by the police, but actually pulling a guy over must have genuine legal cause, not just to check things out. That's bullshit.

8/13/2008 9:16:03 AM

^my point still stands. don't be shady and you have nothing to worry about.

8/13/2008 9:36:48 AM

^are you trying to make yourself look like a dumbass?

8/13/2008 9:46:59 AM