do the people in here that bitch about giving hormones to chickens also have a problem with the concept of women taking birth control?

3/30/2008 10:42:10 AM

only if i have to eat the women for dinner

3/30/2008 10:47:54 AM

Have you people seen 16 year old girls now a days?


Im ALL for whatenever the hell they feed chickens now.


god bless animal hormones.

3/30/2008 10:51:45 AM

obligatory

3/30/2008 10:54:42 AM

ahaha, that's so wrong

but so right

3/30/2008 10:54:54 AM

lol, wow

3/30/2008 11:04:56 AM

^^^^

3/30/2008 11:10:20 AM

Quote :

"do the people in here that bitch about giving hormones to chickens also have a problem with the concept of women taking birth control?"

I am.

I am against powerful prescription medicines in general, except when they are absolutely needed to save life. Otherwise, if improvement, and indeed, treatment, can be had from food and exercise, that's what I do myself and strongly recommend it to friends and family members as well.

And if you think about it, the vast majority of dollars [in health care] in the world go towards heart diseases, high cholesterol, high BP, DIABEETUS, stroke, obesity, etc; ALL of which can be treated in almost all people by dietary and physical interventions.

As for birth control, yes, since condoms and various other devices/methods can achieve the same results (if used properly), I am against long-term use of birth control.

And especially because putting hormones into one's body is [generally] a very bad idea.

3/30/2008 5:08:06 PM

Thank you Witchy for making this thread.

Quote :

"I'm not going to lie, i saw this thread title and immediately got pissed off. i expected the typical tww, bleeding heart, omg all animal farmers are hitleresque devils, type thread. i want to thank you. this is, by far, the most intelligent, reasonable, rational, accurate, and any other adjectives i can think of, thread on this subject i have read. You have seen it first hand and have an informed opinion. as for processing, it isnt as bad as it appears either. its just nasty, not really cruel"

I agree completely with what Livinproof said.

Quote :

" why is it ok for other animals to eat each other, but wrong for us?? Why can a lion chase down a gazelle and rip it apart in the middle of field, but wrong for me to eat a chicken that was raised for consumption? "

I've always wondered that too. It's bullshit that humans shouldn't kill other animals for food. We have canine teeth, we should use them.

Ag Awareness Week is this month. For those that don't know, ag-related groups will be out in the brickyard with animals and explain things that most people don't understand or are confused about (thanks to PETA's crazy agenda).

3/30/2008 7:51:09 PM

i'm on whatever side loves to eat chicken, hamburgers, etc

3/30/2008 7:52:56 PM

Quote :

"And if you think about it, the vast majority of dollars [in health care] in the world go towards heart diseases, high cholesterol, high BP, DIABEETUS, stroke, obesity, etc; ALL of which can be treated in almost all people by dietary and physical interventions."

There's two types of diabetes. Type I is not preventable by diet, and Type II is sometimes not preventable by diet and isn't necessarily preventable by physical intervention. A lot of it is due to large people who are eating themselves to death, but a lot of it can't be grouped under the "oh if you just ate better and exercised twice a week this would never happen to you" category. Same with stroke, High BP, heart disease, all of those aren't caused entirely by diet and such. I know you kind of made the allotment for there to be other cases with the "in almost all people" remark, but really there were a lot of problems with this stuff before everybody in this country become fat and affluent.

Just defending the diabetics and other people with health issues so everybody isn't just dumped into a bad light. I completely agree that a better diet and exercise would reduce the incidence of health problems for many people, but many people are just vulnerable to this stuff genetically.

Oh, and on the original topic, I like that I can get meat for cheap and afford meat often. Once I have more money I'm going to buy better meat than what I eat now as I do agree there is a difference in taste sometimes. Still, I look at it like buying cheap-grade meat vs higher quality meat. One grade is good, but the other one is a hell of a lot better, haha. Some of the bullshit said in this thread about the meat industry being ridiculous and cruel, etc is pretty funny. If you've got a moral objection to it, that's cool, but at least back up some of your comments with hard facts and provide logical reasoning and a solution to the problem of "this scale and style of breeding & farming is bad in some ways" instead of just bashing people that do it and bashing people that consume it.

If you want people to stop eating chicken processed on a large scale you should start a public advocacy campaign for more natural chicken by partnering with a local group that does more of the free range organic type stuff and letting people do taste tests to compare preservative-laden high-output genetically-controlled chickens versus their own controlled diet and "more natural" breeding and processing system for their chickens. I mean, this is just if you want any credibility at all and to actually be productive. As-is the actions of "omg you're just so evil how can you support this" just makes you look like a controlling nutjob instead of somebody who's trying to change the system for the better.

3/30/2008 9:56:56 PM

Have a looksie at my column tomorrow in Technician on the same issue...you know if you have time after suduko and crossword.


puppy, thanks for the kudos....I just get sick of all the propaganda and people getting up in arms about something they haven't experienced FIRST HAND. It's fine to have a belief, it should just be substantiated, and isolated instances of cruelty by specific, busted, asshole people should not overshadow the entire industry.

3/30/2008 11:34:56 PM

Quote :

"There's two types of diabetes. Type I is not preventable by diet"

there is also Type 1.5 diabetes, which will not respond well to diet or drugs that decrease insulin resistance.

3/31/2008 7:40:16 AM

^^ read your column today. Thanks for writing it. Now just wait for all the dumbass peta people that will write in tomorrow.

3/31/2008 10:44:15 AM

Yes, I'm excited...I enjoy making people angry, well, with what I write anyway...


No comments on TechnicianOnline yet, but I know I can't get away with this one scott-free....

3/31/2008 1:15:25 PM

Quote :

"not to mention it is orders of magnitude healthier cows weren't meant to eat corn humans weren't meant to have everything in their diet come from corn"

I heard a great discussion on NPR last week about how dramatically the ratio of Omega 3's to Omega 6's have changed in many of the foods we eat (including meats.) One of the biggest differences was in eggs. Eggs are naturally high in Omega 3 fats, but by altering the diet of chickens and limiting their exercise we have created eggs with an un-natural Omega 3 deficiency. Free range chickens that are chomping on bugs and vegetables often have ten times the Omega 3 fat content of factory farm chickens.

Meat is delicious. I don't care how it gets to me...as long as it gets to me.

3/31/2008 1:55:31 PM

No one responded because no one cares. You are merely in your own words trying to make people angry. You just have your unyielding viewpoint and don't see this as a question of ethics.

3/31/2008 1:56:48 PM

the premise of the original thread creator is correct.

now where you other people come in talking all this nonsense is crazy

first

Quote :

"but I hear that is pretty uncool."

its really not as bad as you would believe or think, EVERYTHING is scrutinized and looked over pretty hard, theres really no way its worse or anything CLOSE to anyone killin' them in their backyard.

Quote :

"Many chickens are injected with so much hormone to make them grow huge that their legs are unable to support the weight and break"

incorrect, no chickens are injected, the price per pound of chicken would be outrageous not to mention hormones have been outlawed for many many years. As for the legs becoming unsupportive, its due to the genetic makeup of SOME birds not all, there seems to be certain strands that were less weight tolerant on the legs but had huge gains and were used WAY too much in the foundation breeds. but researchers are working and eliminating that.

Quote :

"I guess the entire poultry science department is going to show up in this thread"

I may send them this link so that they do, I am one of them.

Quote :

"They're fucking chickens. There are people, humans, in this world that need your help. Worry about them first before you get caught up in your self-righteous crusades about a bunch of birds."

said it quite well i must say. if you dont agree with how meat is produced and made, stop eating it. thats the simple thing to do. but dont protest about something you know nothing about without researching it first.


The Judge is an idiot. You have shown to not know ANYTHING about this subject really and shouldnt be posting in this thread. you stated they were injected, THEN you said

Quote :

"Animals don't crucify each other."

actually they do, and its called "crucifixion" in the poultry industry as well, so its odd you chose that word. they routinely peck, eat and kill each other

go read a little more into things, maybe then you can really come back and have an intelligent HONEST conversation on this subject.

and factory farming saves YOU the consumer thousands of dollars a year




EVERYONE should stop by ag awareness week and learn some things
naked and hungry

3/31/2008 3:19:40 PM

My viewpoint is not unyeilding, and I do believe it is a question of ethics. I just don't believe any ethics are being breached. My 'viewpoint' is from first hand experience....I am not making this shit up and the company sure as hell wasn't taking any pains to hide anything from me, what would be the point of that?

And my goal isn't really to make people angry, just to make them think...

3/31/2008 7:38:32 PM

Quote :

"actually they do, and its called "crucifixion" in the poultry industry as well, so its odd you chose that word. they routinely peck, eat and kill each other "

for the record, that would be persecution

3/31/2008 10:02:28 PM

hahaha yea, totally wrong with that

i admit, wow

I actually had that on the mind and thought about something totally unrelated, wow.


i DO know that though dont make me out to be the same as the judge, wow i feel dumb and dyslexic as well as ADD

3/31/2008 10:44:28 PM

Quote :

" i DO know that though dont make me out to be the same as the judge, wow i feel dumb and dyslexic as well as ADD"

i figured it was just a slip of the tongue
you've pretty much nailed everything else
growth hormones are prohibited in pork production as well
however there are some reproductive hormones in use, but they, like every other drug, have a withdrawal time, and are not used in every single animal
they are only used in reproducing animals that require them

its pretty obvious the judge is an idiot

3/31/2008 11:02:38 PM

^x5 I think Directing Poultry Science Faculty to this web site would be a very bad idea.

Will there be dyed chicks for Ag Awareness Week? <it's vegetable dye it doesn't hurt them>

3/31/2008 11:13:33 PM

yes please dont direct sam pardue to this site


his head would explode with the sheer inability to wrap his head around the concept of TWW

3/31/2008 11:35:08 PM

You guys realize you are corpse eaters dont you?

3/31/2008 11:53:56 PM

I advocate keeping faculty away from T-dub, but I appreciate the vote for support.

4/1/2008 12:30:36 AM

haha, i wasnt going to send it to them

Pardue would make his mission for the year to abolish TWW prolly

Quote :

"Will there be dyed chicks for Ag Awareness Week?"

yes, we just dyed them(the eggs, no live animals were harmed) yesterday

[Edited on April 1, 2008 at 12:58 AM. Reason : g]

4/1/2008 12:58:10 AM

haha, I schooled those crazy activists that were set up outside Harrelson, yesterday and today. Here are some "facts" they tried to tell me:

• Sheering sheep is cruel and we don't need their wool (so we should just let them overheat in 100+ degree weather, when it gets that hot in August in NC??)


• Dairy calves should be getting all their mother's milk, humans shouldn't drink milk. (Even though a dairy cow produces 10,000 lbs of milk per year, the calf should still have all of it)


• Hunting deer is clearly bad, not even considering how overpopulated they are and how many end up through people's windshields. Their solution: release wolves all over the city and county.


• Insects, which are animals, have the same rights as people, so they should never be stepped on or killed


• Here is biggest/funniest one yet: Vegetarianism can prevent hunger and Wars

4/8/2008 3:24:19 PM

I am NIT arguing for either side, but:

Quote :

"Sheering sheep is cruel and we don't need their wool (so we should just let them overheat in 100+ degree weather, when it gets that hot in August in NC??) "

So God put humans on earth to help the poor sheep? Their wool is natural, and until humans starting taking their HAIR, they were doing just fine with it, and it wasn't killing them.

Quote :

"Dairy calves should be getting all their mother's milk, humans shouldn't drink milk. (Even though a dairy cow produces 10,000 lbs of milk per year, the calf should still have all of it) "

Well, that's just simple nature. Every mammal/bird produces milk for its own offspring, not for that of other species, or even that of another individual of the same species. Cows don't produce that much milk in nature. They have been tuned to produce that much milk for humans. If humans didn't keep cows for milk, there would be no issue of "Even though a dairy cow produces 10,000 lbs of milk per year, the calf should still have all of it". Again, cows were doing just fine with all the milk they produced for their offspring (AS ARE ALL OTHER WILD MAMMALS) until humans starting tuning them to produce more milk for humans.

Quote :

"Insects, which are animals, have the same rights as people, so they should never be stepped on or killed"

Well, that statement is ambiguous. Same rights in front of who? They don't have the same rights under law. But what is wrong with saying "they should not be stepped on or killed" IF POSSIBLE? I try not to step on insects when I am walking, just like I don't harm other animals for the heck of it. Sure, I eat meat, and have even tried insects, but just like I am sure you would be against harming non-insect animals for fun/sport, in that respect, insect deserve the same rights. I hate it when people kill insects just because they happen to be in their personal space. I loathe such people. If an insect is not harming you or spreading any disease (fly, mosquito, etc), I don't see why people kill them just for the heck of it.

Quote :

"Here is biggest/funniest one yet: Vegetarianism can prevent hunger and Wars"

Well I think that it can prevent world hunger better than meat can. That's just science. All the plant material that is used to produce enough meat to feed one person can feed 10 people (or something like that). Wars? Maybe. If people didn't eat meat, their testosterone levels would drop, and that might lead to something like 10-50% reduction in the number of wars over the next several centuries.

4/8/2008 6:02:30 PM

^
I'll number them to go along with the points
1. Of course they do just find in nature, but here is the thing, they aren't naturally found in NC.
2. What are you smoking?? Birds don't give milk. Everything else though is my point, we are getting this much milk from selective breeding. They aren't going to be naturally giving it all to their calves.
3. Fair enough on the not killing if they arn't harming you, but nonetheless, insects are not on the same level as humans.
4. You do know that 1 lbs of grain produces 3 lbs of meat?

4/8/2008 7:21:21 PM

did u know it takes like 300 million gallons of water to produce like 100 million gallons of ethanol?

4/8/2008 7:23:21 PM

why not just say 3 gallons to 1 gallon, is that million really necessary?

4/8/2008 7:33:30 PM

i think they produce it in increments of a million i guess

4/8/2008 7:34:24 PM

Quote :

"1. Of course they do just find in nature, but here is the thing, they aren't naturally found in NC. 2. What are you smoking?? Birds don't give milk. Everything else though is my point, we are getting this much milk from selective breeding. They aren't going to be naturally giving it all to their calves. "

So yes, your points are moot.

I don't think PETA/vegans approve of selective breeding or moving animals from country to country.

So what they are saying is that humans shouldn't shouldn't fuck with animals, get products from them, change their habitats, etc.

If humans left animals alone, there would be no sheep in NC to begin with, and cows wouldn't be producing all this milk to begin with, so this discussion would be moot.

What you are basically saying is:

"Oh hey, we have sheep in NC, so we have to shear them."

What the vegans/PETA people are saying is:

"Sheep should be left alone in nature." i.e., THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN MOVED TO NC IN THE FIRST PLACE

So if humans fucked with nature by taking them out of their habitat, they (sheep) should be returned to their natural habitat. You can't use the argument "Oh but, they are in NC now, so we HAVE to shear them, as it is too hot for them here." Same with the cows producing too much milk argument. If humans hadn't fucked with nature, there wouldn't be any cows producing more milk than needed by their calves, so there would be no issue of "Oh but, now the cows are producing so much more milk than needed for calves, so we have to take some."

And some birds produce a milk-like fluid for their young. I don't know its biological name. And there are some mammals that lay eggs. And some birds that don't fly. And some mammals that do.

Quote :

"4. You do know that 1 lbs of grain produces 3 lbs of meat"

I thought it was more like the other way around. I have to look that up. But what you said doesn't make sense. Energy is concentrated upwards when you go in a food chain/pyramid. So X amount of grain will produce a lot less than X amount of beef. And X amount of beef will produce a lot less amount of lion meat, etc.


[Edited on April 8, 2008 at 8:15 PM. Reason : ]

4/8/2008 8:13:38 PM

^Some birds make crop milk, pigeons for one.

4/8/2008 8:47:02 PM

^^ Yeah, and so they want to turn around 8000 years of history, which is how long humans have been using dairy animals. good luck with that time machine. Oh, just noticed I had that ratio backwards, my bad.

I'm aware of crop milk its very fascinating, but its not milk, just like soy milk, rice milk and almond milk are not milk.
^ Male penguins also make this milky substance they upchuck into their young as its first source of nutrients. Very cool also.

4/8/2008 9:09:10 PM

Quote :

"I thought it was more like the other way around. I have to look that up. But what you said doesn't make sense. Energy is concentrated upwards when you go in a food chain/pyramid. So X amount of grain will produce a lot less than X amount of beef. And X amount of beef will produce a lot less amount of lion meat, etc."

You are correct. Eating lower on the food chain is more efficient. The higher you go up the less efficient it becomes. I learned all this and more (much more) from reading the omnivore's dilemma.

4/8/2008 9:26:01 PM

Quote :

"You do know that 1 lbs of grain produces 3 lbs of meat""

wow... and you're an animal science major?? have you taken ANS 230 or 250

Cattle are very inefficient at energy conversion. It takes approximately 7 pounds of grain to produce 1 pound of beef.

What cattle and all ruminants (animals with 4 compartment stomachs) are good at is converting roughages such as grasses and other legumes into energy. That is why cattle, sheep and goats are good foragers and can live off plants that wouldn't sustain other animals. Ruminants would normally eat large amounts of roughages/fiber (grasses, pasture) not necessarily concentrates = grains such as what they are fed in feedlots.

American livestock produce somewhere around 600 BILLION pounds of animal waste per year. And this waste isn't treated like our waste. It's pumped into lagoons, sprayed onto land, etc...

[Edited on April 8, 2008 at 9:30 PM. Reason : I"ll stop for now. ]

4/8/2008 9:29:31 PM

^I failed at multitasking at the time, already addressed, but I had swine in mind and they are 3lbs feed:1 lbs meat. Of which are huge contributors to those awesome lagoons.

4/8/2008 9:43:55 PM