If both anarchist and feminist sources are banned, I'm not going to have much material.

Quote :

"besides the facts are, everybody gets privilege in some places..."

In this country, at least, white people get the most.

Quote :

"'white privilege' seems to be another way of blaming white people for other peoples' misfortunes or actions in the past,"

In a way. Whites created the system, yes. However, merely having privilege isn't your fault. It's something society gives you regardless of whether you want it.

3/19/2008 8:06:12 PM

Quote :

"What's with the political commentary by preachers?"

Religion is the politics of the soul. Always has been, always will be.

Nothing else to say.

3/19/2008 8:10:28 PM

Quote :

"In this country, at least, white people get the most."

the country is also mostly white people...and like i said it depends on the situation and circumstance...does white privilege occur less in somewhere as diverse as chicago or new york? what if i live in a neighborhood thats mostly a race other than white? in public social settings i'm going to be less privileged because i'm white

like i said whites and especially white males are probably the least likely to be discriminated in something that involves money but since i judge people on how they carry themselves and present themselves and act, i get defensive when it seems to me like white privilege is supposed to invoke some sort of guilt trip for something i have no control over whatsoever

3/19/2008 8:14:24 PM

1. I can, if I wish, arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.
- People of other races can't call those of their race as well? I'm pretty sure nobody is making them stay in their homes.

2. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area that I can afford and in which I would want to live.
- What you can afford depends on the job you have, which believe it or not usually has a direct relation to the effort you put into your own education and how you present yourself, as well as your work ethic

3. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.
- I've had white neighbors that were unpleasant to me, and I'm pretty sure they weren't racist against other whites.

4. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.
- In Jackson, Miss. about 40 years ago, I would understand this one. I see plenty of people of all races shopping and moving about without anyone following them or harassing them in any way.

5. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.
- This is joke. Either that or all the news media that I see just happens to have other races, and the rest of the country watches and reads from other secret outlets.

6. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization", I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
- I'm generally told how my race built up the current civilization, which in many ways it did, and also reminded that slaves were used, which I do not approve of. There are also great innovations that came from Asian and African nations as well. I've NEVER had a history class that spoke only of whites, or entirely well of them, for that matter.

7. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.
- There is Black History Month. There is Martin Luther King, Jr. Day. There are celebrations of white leaders. Perhaps blacks should be considered privileged by Ms. McIntosh as well, and point out that there isn't a Latino month?

8. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.
- Any piece relatively well-written that talks on a controversial race issue will get published, you can count on that, regardless of validity.

9. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods that fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can deal with my hair.
A music shop catered to white people? You must be joking. My response is the same for the other points as well.

10. Whether I use checks, credit cards, or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.
- Good credit gives you the appearance of financial reliability. Take care of your money and you won't have problems. I'm sorry but they outlawed discrimination with this a while back. Being white doesn't get you free money; I have plenty of friends who can vouch for that.

11. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.
- Protection of children is the most important thing for any decent parent. Unfortunately children of any race can fall victim to violence. If you want to continue running off of stereotypes, consider the "rich privileged white kid"... seems to me that'd be a prime target.

12. I can swear, or dress in second-hand clothes or not answer letters without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race.
- Personally I view swearing as the mind's last desperate attempt to form a thought, and failing. Usually poverty has a pretty strong relation to the clothes that people wear. People that don't answer letters are generally just considered rude, including whites.

13. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.
- A random thought. Sounds more like an individual fear rather than a valid point.

14. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.
- You're right, there is no credit for being white.

15. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.
- I've had discussions about the differences between racial groups. Personally it isn't that big of a deal.

16. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color, who constitute the worlds' majority, without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.
- Aren't we all made to be blatantly aware of the customs and languages of other races on a regular basis? At least in this country I know it's not unusual to have to select a language in public, etc.

17. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.
- Last I remember over half the country hates the government, and it's talked about on a regular basis in the media and even smaller outlets; TWW for instance.

18. I can be sure that if I ask to talk to "the person in charge" I will be facing a person of my race.
- Less and less the case, but it isn't unusual. Keep in mind that "the person in charge" can be there for any number of reasons, and very unlikely because of the color of their skin.

19. If a traffic cop pulls me over, or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.
- Pulled over by a cop? I'm about 95% sure that I'd get a ticket first thing, and that I couldn't tell the court I only got pulled over because I'm white. Sounds like a great privilege to me. The IRS will audit you if your numbers don't line up. Keep it clean and you'll be fine regardless.

20. I can easily buy posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and children's magazines featuring people of my race.
-I've seen many of these items directed specifically at races other than whites.

21. I can go home from most meetings or organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in rather than isolated, out of place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance, or feared.
I guess that would make sense if I went to predominantly white meetings and organizations. However, I'm sure I'd have a few eyes on me at a Black Panthers rally or a mosque too.

22. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having coworkers on the job suspect that I got it because of race.
I'd feel uncomfortable if I had to get someone to force my employer to give me a job too. My college degree, work ethic and my presence will earn my jobs, not my color.

23. I can choose public accommodations without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.
There is no public place to my knowledge that stops anyone of any race. They simply can't do it in today's society, legally or otherwise. I've been mistreated a few times in public myself.

24. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help my race will not work against me.
Yet another stereotype with no solid base to stand on, as far as I'm concerned.

25. If my day, week, or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it has racial overtones.
You're right, I don't need to. I generally choose not to make my color the scapegoat for my problems, whether they are my fault or someone else's. I believe others should do the same.

26. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color that more or less matches my skin.
By this point, I'm pretty sure Ms. McIntosh was running out of ideas.

3/19/2008 9:00:17 PM

The list isn't perfect, but your post is a good example of how to deny white privilege.

Other privileges of course exist. This doesn't negate white privilege.

3/19/2008 10:01:30 PM

well i certainly don't agree with you. so that leaves one other stance. you wanted my response to that article and you got it, and i think you and Ms. McIntosh are full of it with this whole white privilege garbage.

i hit every point made in that article, if you've got more i'll be glad to explain them to you as well.

and for the record: no, i don't believe that everything in this country is fair. whites are going to have a few advantages, as well as other races. it will happen in different circumstances. acting like whites have it so much better than anyone else is the part that pisses me off

[Edited on March 19, 2008 at 10:36 PM. Reason : ]

3/19/2008 11:32:57 PM