i can't believe you don't see the obvious possible terrible consequences of this proposal.

2/22/2008 3:07:25 PM

No and your wonderful convincing skills has failed to convince.



You haven't offered any reason why I should be against this.

2/22/2008 3:08:26 PM

couldn't people in power execute someone while there's a public furor even if it's not the correct decision?

doesn't the idea of the government killing its own citizens also breed an inherent distrust in the government?

2/22/2008 3:14:34 PM

^ Reading comprehension.



Undeniable forensic DNA evidence and/or confession.




No it does not breed distrust. I distrust a government who will fail to put to death a man convicted of raping and murdering a 20 year old girl and making the parents of the deceased woman pay for his room, board, and food for the rest of his natural life with access to health care that not even they can get.


HOW IS IT SO HARD TO SEE THIS AS A PROBLEM?

2/22/2008 3:16:50 PM

because there have been plenty of courts that have claimed an airtight case when upon reflection, it was anything but.

maybe i don't feel a need for people to be killed so i feel a little better.

[Edited on February 22, 2008 at 3:18 PM. Reason : .]

2/22/2008 3:18:22 PM

those airtight cases were also from the 70s and 80s without forensic evidence.


Once again, read what I'm saying.


If you deny having raped and murdered a woman but your semen was found all over her, in her, her clothes, as well as your hair, etc...



Thanks for your honesty about how it makes you feel, which is perfectly legitimate... but out of curiosity, why do you feel that we should support these people are are nothing but evil?

[Edited on February 22, 2008 at 3:21 PM. Reason : .]

2/22/2008 3:18:55 PM

i am and your trust in the purity of our justice system is troubling. and the lack of health care bit is a separate problem.

Quote :

"If you deny having raped and murdered a woman but your semen was found all over her, in her, her clothes, as well as your hair, etc..."

then put me in jail

[Edited on February 22, 2008 at 3:20 PM. Reason : .]

2/22/2008 3:20:04 PM

Quote :

"But in the clear cut cases, confessions and/or HARD FORENSIC EVIDENCE, there's no reason to keep them on this earth."

obviously you're not a lawyer, and you have no comprehension how the law works (or would work in your proposal)

2/22/2008 3:20:52 PM

educate me, oh mighty lawyer, of the error of my ways since it is so obvious you know so much.



Oh wait, you just told me how wrong I was without saying anything about what makes you right...




but back to the topic.... Why should THESE people be afforded a right to live when they have denied that to their child?

[Edited on February 22, 2008 at 3:23 PM. Reason : .]

2/22/2008 3:22:20 PM

because it's guaranteed in our constitution?

or maybe that i don't think our government should have the right to kill its citizens. even the worst of its citizens.

2/22/2008 3:23:56 PM

that's where we disagree. I think our government has the responsibility to remove these evil, vile people so as to 100% guarantee that recidivism is not an option.

2/22/2008 3:26:39 PM

so you're afraid that in 30 years or whatever these people are going to have more kids and kill THEM?

your previous posts reveal at least some amount of revenge in your reasoning.

[Edited on February 22, 2008 at 3:28 PM. Reason : .]

2/22/2008 3:28:30 PM

Quote :

"educate me, oh mighty lawyer, of the error of my ways since it is so obvious you know so much. Oh wait, you just told me how wrong I was without saying anything about what makes you right..."

my point is you're spouting off "the way things should be" without any thought to how it would work.

defendants semen on the victims body=execute. check.
what else?

you're saying we should only execute the ones we are SURE are guilty...when the whole idea is if they're found guilty in a court of law, thats the court saying they're SURE the defendant is guilty.

Quote :

"The problem with that is that it creates "levels" of guilt which also doesn't work in our justice system. If someone doesn't confess or have DNA evidence, are they less guilty than someone else?"

and i'm still curious how you can profess to be a christian but fiercely support putting people to death.

2/22/2008 3:29:53 PM

^^Yes, that is what I'm saying. NOt necessarily kill another infant, but since they have proven that they will kill, strike that, torture another human being, the government must ensure that they cannot repeat.

[Edited on February 22, 2008 at 3:31 PM. Reason : ^]


Who says there's not levels of guilt... ever heard of degrees of murder, which surely is an indication of a level of guilt, or at least an arbitrary level we impose of "how bad" someone is.

Aww damn, can't you get on first degree, but I sure as hell can get you on 2nd.

[Edited on February 22, 2008 at 3:31 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on February 22, 2008 at 3:32 PM. Reason : .]

2/22/2008 3:30:16 PM

Quote :

"the government must ensure that they cannot repeat"

which is why theres this thing called life in prison.

and thats your cue to cry me a river about the impact of that on the thickness of your wallet.

Quote :

"Who says there's not levels of guilt... ever heard of degrees of murder, which surely is an indication of a level of guilt"

and thats not even remotely accurate. [insert my earlier statement about you not knowing how the law works]

2/22/2008 3:33:14 PM

does that 100% ensure they cannot repeat?



are you sure?

2/22/2008 3:34:21 PM

you still haven't addressed:

Quote :

"your previous posts reveal at least some amount of revenge in your reasoning."

2/22/2008 3:36:01 PM

because they don't.

Just because you think there might be an element of revenge doesn't mean there is.

2/22/2008 3:36:44 PM

Quote :

"does that 100% ensure they cannot repeat? are you sure? "

it keeps them away from law abiding citizens. good enough for me. the only reason its not good enough for you is your need for revenge.

2/22/2008 3:36:57 PM

It's happened before... an escaped convict killed another person.... but that death is ok by you for some reason... although we could've prevented it.

Quote :

"and thats not even remotely accurate. [insert my earlier statement about you not knowing how the law works]<]"

why don't you quote the full line?

[Edited on February 22, 2008 at 3:39 PM. Reason : .]

2/22/2008 3:38:40 PM

Whichever is cheaper for us taxpayers is what they should do. If them living for 50 years in prison is cheaper, then do that, or if it's killing them, then ok that works too. Assuming that this is a pretty "open and shut" case, and they did this shit, they don't deserve to live.

2/22/2008 3:48:58 PM

^^^^ oh really?

Quote :

"I present this case to anyone who disagrees with the death penalty. Both of these people should be summarily tied to a seat and left in a cage in a room of 80 degrees with a snow suit on... and food inches away from their grasp... They should be killed in the most gruesome way one can imagine. "

[Edited on February 22, 2008 at 3:49 PM. Reason : ^]

2/22/2008 3:49:00 PM

that's not revenge. That's justice, my friend.

2/22/2008 3:50:38 PM

maybe i'm confused about what revenge means. . .

Quote :

"Revenge (also vengeance, retribution, or vendetta amongst others) consists primarily of retaliation against a person or group in response to a perceived wrongdoing. Although many aspects of revenge resemble or echo the concept of justice, revenge usually has a more injurious than harmonious goal. The goal of revenge usually consists of forcing the perceived wrongdoer to suffer the same pain that was originally inflicted."

nope. i'm not.

2/22/2008 3:52:21 PM

The Allied States of America approves of a faster death penalty. More details Tuesday after 9:00 PM.

2/22/2008 3:53:04 PM

Can revenge sometimes not be incorrectly perceived as justice?

[Edited on February 22, 2008 at 3:53 PM. Reason : .]

2/22/2008 3:53:37 PM

i mean you're obviously not going to call it revenge. but that's by definition what it is.

Quote :

"Can revenge sometimes not be incorrectly perceived as justice?"

yes. as you have done.

[Edited on February 22, 2008 at 3:55 PM. Reason : .]

2/22/2008 3:54:17 PM

Quote :

"Can justice sometimes be incorrectly perceived as revenge?"

[Edited on February 22, 2008 at 3:57 PM. Reason : .]

2/22/2008 3:55:57 PM

yes. you have just incorrectly perceived revenge as justice. (nice edit of a quote)

[Edited on February 22, 2008 at 3:58 PM. Reason : .]

2/22/2008 3:57:55 PM

but isn't it possible that you're misconstruing justice to be revenge?

2/22/2008 3:59:24 PM

not really. seeing as your description is the textbook definition of revenge. there isn't a lot of grey area there.

2/22/2008 3:59:49 PM

which text book?

2/22/2008 4:01:19 PM

i used wikipedia first. but merriam webster works as well.

Quote :

"1 : to avenge (as oneself) usually by retaliating in kind or degree"

and no i don't want to continue this in pm's. i think this discussion is pretty silly to carry on any longer (i'm just not going to go on anymore)

[Edited on February 22, 2008 at 4:04 PM. Reason : .]

2/22/2008 4:04:02 PM

Quote :

"Whichever is cheaper for us taxpayers is what they should do. If them living for 50 years in prison is cheaper, then do that, or if it's killing them, then ok that works too."

this may come as a surprise to you

but there are issues LARGER than how thick your wallet is

2/22/2008 4:04:53 PM

That's very vengeful.

2/22/2008 4:05:04 PM

They should be neutered as punishment. People like that seem to get pregnant or impregnate people on the drop of a dime, while people that want babies can't have them.

2/22/2008 7:17:40 PM

there are some areas of the country (and i cant remember where i saw this) but they have getting a histerectomy as punsihment for women who have more than 5 kids or something who are on welfare

i remember it being really controversial, but they kept going with it

2/22/2008 7:43:26 PM

that's just horrible

2/22/2008 7:43:45 PM

Quote :

"VIII Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

Sorry, angry TWWers

2/22/2008 10:37:22 PM

Quote :

"Whichever is cheaper for us taxpayers is what they should do."

i'd like to add that killing them is prolly cheaper than letting them be in jail for 50 years imo

2/22/2008 10:43:35 PM

no, life in prison is cheaper b/c of the expensive appeals process for death row inmates

2/22/2008 10:50:01 PM

hmmm good point.....is that taking into account the time value of money concept?


finance teacher said when we are 80, sodas are gonna be like 10 bucks at a vending machine and people will be ok with that

2/22/2008 10:54:13 PM

NO WAI

2/22/2008 11:15:11 PM

this and the burning of the cat are two of the saddest things i've ever read.

being a parent makes it more so.

2/22/2008 11:53:54 PM

Why did I read this? This is one of the most depressing things I've ever read.

2/23/2008 6:36:34 PM

Quote :

"how did the first kid ever make it through - that's crazy"

Uh, he didn't.

2/23/2008 9:57:55 PM

I don't even have words to express how that article makes me feel.

As a new mother with a critically ill child, that makes me so fucking angry. How can fucking cruel excuses for people have children so easily? They're given a perfect, healthy child and then they take it for granted and do something so awful. It just makes me sick.

2/23/2008 10:08:32 PM

^^Oops, looks like I misread my quote.

2/23/2008 10:39:42 PM

Quote :

"And some people still think permits shouldn't be required for breeding ..."

too elitist but not the worst idea in the world


i like how most of this thread degenerated into a death penalty debate....

i say kill them

[Edited on February 23, 2008 at 10:45 PM. Reason : s]

2/23/2008 10:43:46 PM

I am against the death penalty, but I think that I could probably kill them with my bare hands.

2/23/2008 10:48:47 PM