^ OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 1:49 PM. Reason : 2 late]

2/19/2008 1:49:22 PM

2

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 1:49 PM. Reason : f0ck]

2/19/2008 1:49:23 PM

Quote :

"in my estimation, I lose nothing by believing in myself rather than believing in God I stand to gain all that I can achieve whereas you lose your autonomy and your rational mind by believing in God and gain a sycophantic disposition and a false sense of security in my opinion"

yes, it would have to be your opinion, although it is completely incorrect (and yes, i can say your opinion is "wrong" because i'm an example of the one you're expressing your opinion about, and i know for a fact - something you can't say, apparently - that your viewpoint is sadly misguided)

what autonomy have i lost? can i not make my own choices? my belief in god is not governed by something as silly as the bible...it's governed by a belief that you cannot understand, and that belief does not limit me...rather, it opens up possibilities that someone in your position, apparently, cannot possibly comprehend

rational mind? so you're saying that anything that YOU can't understand must not be rational? that sure is a parochial viewpoint to take...and i'm the irrational one? you're one of those silly people who think that just because we can't quantify something means that it must not be "rational"...how i pity your limited scope on life and the world around you (this comment is completely without regards to religion or belief in god, mind you)

false sense of security? that's just plain dumb...there is no such thing as security in a world where events are completely out of your control, all religion aside...i don't trust that god will protect me from every little thing that could hurt me...shoot, i don't even believe that he'll protect me from ANYTHING...the god i believe in allows us to live our lives and does not coddle us just so we can sleep well at night

i think you might be confused...you (quite obviously) hate all religion, regardless of premise or belief and i suspect something horrible happened to you as a child that has caused you to be so vehemently opposed to something that in no way affects you (an individual might affect you in some way, but religion itself does you no harm, only what free-minded people choose do in the name of their purported religion)

i, personally, would never vote for an atheistic president, because in that belief (or lack thereof), i know for a fact that there's no way they can see beyond themselves or allow for the possibility of something greater than humanity, and that is just plain pathetic and somewhat frightening...please do me the favor of not immediately turning my words around to mean that i would vote for any psycho religious nut just because he believed in something...that is, of course, not my point...and, as StillFuchsia pointed out, i'm quite capable of seeing what kinds of stupid things a president can do based on his personal religious beliefs

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 1:56 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2008 1:53:25 PM

let's play a game. which of these names doesn't belong here?


George Washington
John Adams
Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
James Monroe
John Quincy Adams
Andrew Jackson
Martin Van Buren
William H. Harrison
John Tyler
James K. Polk
Zachary Taylor
Millard Fillmore
Franklin Pierce
James Buchanan
Abraham Lincoln
Andrew Johnson
Ulysses S. Grant
Rutherford B. Hayes
James Garfield
Chester A. Arthur
Grover Cleveland
Benjamin Harrison
Grover Cleveland
William McKinley
Theodore Roosevelt
William H. Taft
Woodrow Wilson
Warren G. Harding
Calvin Coolidge
Herbert Hoover
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Harry S. Truman
Dwight D. Eisenhower
John F. Kennedy
Lyndon B. Johnson
Richard Nixon
Gerald Ford
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
George H. W. Bush
Bill Clinton
George W. Bush
Barack Hussein Obama

2/19/2008 1:54:02 PM

Aww, he was foiled in his attempts to slander his wife, so he'll go for the "BUT HE ISN'T AN OLD WHITE GUY" approach

2/19/2008 1:54:55 PM

Is it the black guy with the ethnic name?

2/19/2008 1:54:59 PM

BLACK HUSSEIN OSAMA

IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, YOU CAN GIIIIIIT OUT

USA #1

2/19/2008 1:56:09 PM

Really, what does that prove? (besides the fact that you're a racist who enjoys grabbing at straws)

2/19/2008 1:57:46 PM

lol, straw-grabber

Quote :

"i, personally, would never vote for an atheistic president, because in that belief (or lack thereof), i know for a fact that there's no way they can see beyond themselves or allow for the possibility of something greater than humanity, and that is just plain pathetic and somewhat frightening...please do me the favor of not immediately turning my words around to mean that i would vote for any psycho religious nut just because he believed in something...that is, of course, not my point...and, as StillFuchsia pointed out, i'm quite capable of seeing what kinds of stupid things a president can do based on his personal religious beliefs"

What are you talking about? How do you "know for a fact there's no way they can see beyond themselves or allow for the possibility of something greater than humanity"? That is the biggest load of shit I've ever read. Atheists CAN'T SEE BEYOND THEMSELVES? In fact, many atheists believe that the improvement of humanity should be the sole focus of their lives because of their belief in a lack of a higher power. It's ridiculous to associate atheism with being against humanity. Besides which, why should there be a "greater than humanity" requirement for the President? It's a SECULAR job. You're making the same argument that you're rallying against by saying "well I can see how religious nutcakes can be bad presidents" but simultaneously rejecting the idea that someone who isn't religious could never possibly do a good job. We're all just people. I don't see why religion needs to be brought up in the job position at all.

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 2:13 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2008 1:58:26 PM

Quote :

"RACIST STRAW GRABBING"

2/19/2008 1:59:51 PM

^^^

it proves how easy somebody want's to change something that took over 200 years to build when everything doesn't go their ways.

honestly. what are these major changes that are wanted that are going to make your lives so prosperous and great?

more taxes? a bigger government? yeah let's let a guy who has done both of those his entire life during his short inexperienced career be the guy to lead out the "SWEEPING" changes this nation so desperately needs.




[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 2:03 PM. Reason : ^^^]

2/19/2008 2:02:33 PM

Quote :

"it proves how easy somebody want's to change something that took over 200 years to build when everything doesn't go their ways."

Maybe Obama can fix the education system.

2/19/2008 2:03:42 PM

WANT'S

2/19/2008 2:05:34 PM

Quote :

"it proves how easy somebody want's to change something that took over 200 years to build when everything doesn't go their ways."

Yes, because he is proposing to sink the entire north american continent in the ocean.

Everyone runs for president saying that they want to change america.


STRAW

GRABBING

MVP

2/19/2008 2:08:34 PM

Maybe the people themselves can change it. That's the beauty of the land. We don't and NEVER will need a KING OR RULER to create these changes for us.

last time I checked, the Judicial and Legislative branches of our gov't hold 66.66666% of the power in this nation.


but the beauty even further behind it is that we can take our children out of these 'public' schools and create our own!!!

have you ever stepped out of your liberal shell long enough to realize that we don't need a King George to guide our every action???

oh wait, that's right, your the only self independant thinker who needs no God or rulers. only poor country bumpkin conservatives need that God stuff and leader preaching brainwash....

ooppss....

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 2:10 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2008 2:09:05 PM

Wtf, how did this devolve into a discussion about kings?

I don't think anyone's running for King of America.

2/19/2008 2:11:57 PM

Quote :

"Maybe Obama can fix the education system."

sounds like a dictator to me.

i think if this is ever done, he'll need the other 2/3's of the gov't in washington to help him.

oh and all 50 states gov'ts and their people as well

2/19/2008 2:13:58 PM

One of my co-workers thinks Obama is a Muslim. At first I was . Then I referred her to Snopes.com. Then I realized she would never vote for a democrat anyway so all the logic in the world is just a waste of time.

2/19/2008 2:15:13 PM

2/19/2008 2:15:52 PM

Quote :

"have you ever stepped out of your liberal shell long enough to realize that we don't need a King George to guide our every action???"

Well, I never voted for the "King George"

Quote :

"Maybe the people themselves can change it. That's the beauty of the land. We don't and NEVER will need a KING OR RULER to create these changes for us."

See, we have this thing called democracy.

Quote :

"Democracy (literally "rule by the people", from the Greek demos, "people", and kratos, "rule") is a form of government."

2/19/2008 2:16:30 PM

then why is that these "sweeping changes" you desire so much haven't been accomplished?


are you sucky citizens? the reason I ask is b/c I am happy with my life. I don't have burden issues with the current state of gov't.

you act as if you want to re-write how it's all done in america.

2/19/2008 2:21:08 PM

Quote :

"then why is that these "sweeping changes" you desire so much haven't been accomplished?"

Because Bush has been in office for 8 years? Well that's just one of the reasons.

Quote :

"you act as if you want to re-write how it's all done in america."

"How it's all done" isn't necessarily "how it should be done."

I don't mean "should" in a prescriptive sense, I just mean that the system doesn't currently support all US citizens equally or treat all US citizens fairly. I'm sorry you don't care about improving an obviously-flawed system.

Nobody's going to rewrite the Constitution. Stop being some kind of fucking paranoid nut.

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 2:30 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2008 2:28:07 PM

still furshia just cause i posted for the first time in a little while doesnt mean you have to bump my thread...your egame doesnt work anymore sry

2/19/2008 2:28:39 PM

bttt.

seriously. wtf is making people so unhappy with their lives to the point that they see the need for massive re-writes of the constitution and/or lawbooks via the president only.

2/19/2008 2:28:49 PM

ooo noes ima sucky citizen.

Quote :

"you act as if you want to re-write how it's all done in america."

We're not one who are rewriting history.

2/19/2008 2:29:23 PM

Quote :

""How it's all done" isn't necessarily "how it should be done.""

What the fuck is difference between those 2 statements? go back to third grade and learn to comprehend.


no it's more like how it could be done

2/19/2008 2:30:10 PM

^^^^^^ Nobody in this thread has really said anything about "sweeping changes." Snewf was engaging in a philosophical/hypothetical discussion about religion and the nature of democracy, without discussing any specific candidates or anything, and then you came in here flipping out about something Michelle Obama said.

^^^^ Fuck off, troutface.

2/19/2008 2:30:52 PM

Quote :

"What the fuck is difference between those 2 statements? go back to third grade and learn to comprehend"

There's a huge difference between the two. You can reread them and try again.

I don't mean "should" in a prescriptive sense, I just mean that the system doesn't currently support all US citizens equally or treat all US citizens fairly. I'm sorry you don't care about improving an obviously-flawed system.

Nobody's going to rewrite the Constitution. Stop being some kind of fucking paranoid nut.

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 2:31 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2008 2:31:06 PM

the sad thing is that i've had to correct my mom, and a group of idiots in a political discussion in the lockerroom of my gym.

2/19/2008 2:32:08 PM

Quote :

"seriously. wtf is making people so unhappy with their lives to the point that they see the need for massive re-writes of the constitution and/or lawbooks via the president only."

So now you're worried about the constitution being rewritten?

Look in the fucking mirror, PAL.

2/19/2008 2:32:24 PM

Quote :

"fucking paranoid nut."

at least one of us is getting some!!! biaaatttchh!!!



and i'm sorry you've been parnoid for the past 7 years yourself. enjoy the last 10 months!!!

2/19/2008 2:34:08 PM

I haven't been paranoid over Bush. He's proven to me that he's an incompetent leader through his actions.

You're just speculating ridiculous things based on... well, nothing.

2/19/2008 2:36:15 PM

Quote :

"What are you talking about? How do you "know for a fact there's no way they can see beyond themselves or allow for the possibility of something greater than humanity"? That is the biggest load of shit I've ever read. Atheists CAN'T SEE BEYOND THEMSELVES? In fact, many atheists believe that the improvement of humanity should be the sole focus of their lives because of their belief in a lack of a higher power. It's ridiculous to associate atheism with being against humanity. Besides which, why should there be a "greater than humanity" requirement for the President? It's a SECULAR job. You're making the same argument that you're rallying against by saying "well I can see how religious nutcakes can be bad presidents" but simultaneously rejecting the idea that someone who isn't religious could never possibly do a good job. We're all just people. I don't see why religion needs to be brought up in the job position at all."

are you really confused as to what i'm talking about? were the words not small enough for you? you even quoted my "something greater than humanity" and then you called it a load of shit and said that "many atheists believe that the improvement of humanity should be the sole focus of their lives"...what you're missing is that i'm referring to things BEYOND humanity (i thought that was obvious, but apparently you have difficulty with reading comprehension)

1.) i did not say atheists are bad people...i never once even implied it...all i did say is that i don't agree with them and in Snewf's case, i said that it was obvious can't comprehend what it's like to believe in something that is (by his own definition) unprovable

2.) i never said someone who wasn't religious would be a BAD president, or that they couldn't do the job...if you'll read carefully, you'll notice that i said i wouldn't vote for them because one of my requirements is that they see something in this universe greater than humanity itself (whether that's god or the idea that we are not the singularly most important thing in the universe, i don't care)

3.) i never said that religion should be a requirement for the position...just that i, personally require certain beliefs in certain things before i'll vote for him/her (i don't see how this is much different than voting for a president who believes in fairness of race or sex...just because it doesn't fit YOUR personal code doesn't mean i don't have the right to require it myself)

please, fuchsia, learn to read...your lack of comprehension is tiresome because it seems like you should be smarter than this, but you keep proving that you're not

2/19/2008 2:39:35 PM

^^i wish he would've proved it more by incompetantly handling the nations defense and allowing terrorist attacks in your own backyard.

so i'm sorry.... but that would've proved your ass right.

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 2:40 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2008 2:39:49 PM

Quote :

"You're just speculating ridiculous things based on... well, nothing."

That's not entirely true.

Quote :

"George Washington John Adams Thomas Jefferson James Madison James Monroe John Quincy Adams Andrew Jackson Martin Van Buren William H. Harrison John Tyler James K. Polk Zachary Taylor Millard Fillmore Franklin Pierce James Buchanan Abraham Lincoln Andrew Johnson Ulysses S. Grant Rutherford B. Hayes James Garfield Chester A. Arthur Grover Cleveland Benjamin Harrison Grover Cleveland William McKinley Theodore Roosevelt William H. Taft Woodrow Wilson Warren G. Harding Calvin Coolidge Herbert Hoover Franklin D. Roosevelt Harry S. Truman Dwight D. Eisenhower John F. Kennedy Lyndon B. Johnson Richard Nixon Gerald Ford Jimmy Carter Ronald Reagan George H. W. Bush Bill Clinton George W. Bush Barack Hussein Obama"

I must admit, Fred Thompson's name does sound A LOT more presidential.

2/19/2008 2:41:53 PM

this ain't digg.com either. so don't expect to bury my ass anytime soon!!!!

2/19/2008 2:42:26 PM

Quote :

"i wish he would've proved it more by incompetantly handling the nations defense and allowing terrorist attacks in your own backyard."

Or left a bunch of people in New Orleans without aid in the wake of Katrina. Yeah, okay.

Quote :

"are you really confused as to what i'm talking about? were the words not small enough for you? you even quoted my "something greater than humanity" and then you called it a load of shit and said that "many atheists believe that the improvement of humanity should be the sole focus of their lives"...what you're missing is that i'm referring to things BEYOND humanity (i thought that was obvious, but apparently you have difficulty with reading comprehension)"

I didn't miss anything. You said, and I quote "know for a fact there's no way they can see beyond themselves OR allow for the possibility of something greater than humanity." I agree with the second part (but don't see why it's important), NOT the first. You suggest, in that statement, that atheists can't see anything beyond themselves and would therefore have a disregard for humanity.

Quote :

"1.) i did not say atheists are bad people...i never once even implied it...all i did say is that i don't agree with them and in Snewf's case, i said that it was obvious can't comprehend what it's like to believe in something that is (by his own definition) unprovable"

On the contrary, atheism is defined by a belief that there absolutely is no god. That requires just as much faith as the reverse case.

Quote :

"2.) i never said someone who wasn't religious would be a BAD president, or that they couldn't do the job...if you'll read carefully, you'll notice that i said i wouldn't vote for them because one of my requirements is that they see something in this universe greater than humanity itself (whether that's god or the idea that we are not the singularly most important thing in the universe, i don't care)"

And my point was that those qualifications aren't necessary for electing a president. You decided to insult the whole group by calling them "pathetic" and "frightening" though. If you had just wanted to say "hey, I wouldn't vote for them," fine, but that part was uncalled for.

Quote :

"3.) i never said that religion should be a requirement for the position...just that i, personally require certain beliefs in certain things before i'll vote for him/her (i don't see how this is much different than voting for a president who believes in fairness of race or sex...just because it doesn't fit YOUR personal code doesn't mean i don't have the right to require it myself)"

True. But you thought I was arguing with the second clause of what I quoted you on, not the first. The main problem is that you said "hey, it makes total sense for people to not want to vote for an atheist" but then failed to explain why anyone, aside from yourself and your own personal beliefs, should believe that.

Quote :

"please, fuchsia, learn to read...your lack of comprehension is tiresome because it seems like you should be smarter than this, but you keep proving that you're not"

You're misreading me, not the other way around.

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 2:49 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2008 2:45:23 PM

still furshia it turns me on when you argue in my threads

2/19/2008 2:47:13 PM

fuck off, troutface

2/19/2008 2:47:54 PM

2/19/2008 2:49:50 PM

oh i get it now...kodiak...still furshia is posting a bear...i bet its a kodiak bear....eureka!!

2/19/2008 2:50:42 PM

good job, downie

2/19/2008 2:51:33 PM

^ Will this be on pay per view at some point?

2/19/2008 2:52:53 PM

I bet they'd let me watch it for free.

2/19/2008 3:15:32 PM

hey kodiak lets have a fitness competition and still furshia gets to blow the winner

2/19/2008 5:04:59 PM

Ask a deeply religious Christian if he'd rather live next to a bearded Muslim that may or may not be plotting a terror attack, or an atheist that may or may not show him how to set up a wireless network in his house. On the scale of prejudice, atheists don't seem so bad lately.

-Scott Adams

2/19/2008 5:13:49 PM

wow this thread went nuts in my absence.

2/19/2008 6:27:30 PM

couldnt even finish the first page....america makes me sick...if i were rich enough i'd live somewhere else

2/20/2008 2:49:54 AM

...hopefully somewhere with out internet access

2/20/2008 2:55:52 AM

egg em up

3/21/2008 5:56:35 PM