^^^^no, it can be avoided, but there is a cost.

I am an Asst. Project Manager for a local construction company and when we are hiring an individual, we cannot legally check his or her social security number to see if they are legal before we hire them. Then after we do hire them, we do not want to check because we have already invested time and money into them via drug screen, etc.

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 1:51 PM. Reason : ^'s]

1/9/2008 1:50:02 PM

Quote :

"^^you must be ignorant of the fact that plenty of people in this country dont know english, specifically illegal immigrants"

what the fuck does knowing english even have to do with anything. THAT is my point. look around. go to europe. visit another fucking country. look at the plethora of languages that pervade them, yet Americans feel as though everyone that comes here MUST learn our language to be a convenience to us. yes, VALID point....good job.

there are a hell of a lot of LEGAL people here that also don't speak english. so i don't really feel that it is necessary for illegal immigrants to learn english. you can't really loop that into the same category as paying taxes.

1/9/2008 1:52:26 PM

^^what about when you cut paychecks...do you take out fed, state, med, ss?

Quote :

"what the fuck does knowing english even have to do with anything"

cause this is the united states, we speak motherfucking english here

1/9/2008 1:52:47 PM

yes, but that doesn't prove the legal status.

some people go to great and expensive lengths to beat the system.

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 1:54 PM. Reason : .]

1/9/2008 1:53:22 PM

I will most likely buy an older home and renovate myself. I have known people that had to leave construction because they would not hire illegals and got tired of the subcontractors messing shit up because the illegals just wanted to do it fast.

From my experience if you want quality work you'll hire american labor. The illegals are just here to make money to send home and have no problem screwing over our economy, which is what they are doing. With American labor at least they spend the money here instead of sending it all to other countries and killing the local economy.

1/9/2008 1:53:31 PM

^^^fucking duh guy

1/9/2008 1:53:45 PM

this topic makes maximus happy.

1/9/2008 1:54:05 PM

plus i want my workers to be familiar with building codes, osha regulations, etc...not just be the cheapest possible price...quality, not cheap bullshit

1/9/2008 1:55:04 PM

This is for all the suffragettes on TWW:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ltx97TNWKUI&feature=related

1/9/2008 1:55:16 PM

Quote :

"yes, but that doesn't prove the legal status. some people go to great and expensive lengths to beat the system"

no doubt, but you're at least withholding taxes instead of just paying cash under the table...does suck you cant check il/legal status though...i thought some of the new laws in 2008 allowed more disclosure but maybe thats only if convicted of a felony, cant remember

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 1:58 PM. Reason : .]

1/9/2008 1:57:44 PM

Quote :

"cause this is the united states, we speak motherfucking english here"

that is really ignorant. history 101: hey...did you know that the united states was founded by immigrants?? and people that didn't speak english?? omg no WAY!!!!!!

people who come to this country shouldn't have to speak our language. that is just a ridiculous comment that doesn't even have any merit in this argument

1/9/2008 1:59:02 PM

Quote :

"Serious question: Would Obama really be the first "African American" president? You know, cause he ain't that black... Side question: Would Hillary be the first female president, considering her grotesquely large clitoris?"

Serious answer: Yes. Given that his father is African, it actually makes him African American probably more so than 90% of the black people in America.

Side answer:

No. James Polk already was.



She cross dressed

1/9/2008 1:59:30 PM

Quote :

"I will most likely buy an older home and renovate myself."

You are definately in the minority from that aspect.

Quote :

"From my experience if you want quality work you'll hire american labor."

Maybe, just maybe is that true in residential construction. But in commercial, industrial, and institutional construction, underground utility, concrete, and steel erection, most of the grunt work is too greuling for someone of our generation to want to do it for the prices that AMERICANS (especially taxpayers for public work) will pay to have the work done.

1/9/2008 1:59:41 PM

Yup, got to know English to read and understand building codes.

Most illegals that don't know English do at least know "no pay" so that's how you stop them if you see them massacring a project on your house FYI. Sadly it's easier for me to do work myself than try to find a company I can trust.

1/9/2008 1:59:52 PM

Quote :

"that is really ignorant. history 101: hey...did you know that the united states was founded by immigrants?? and people that didn't speak english?? omg no WAY!!!!!!"

hey, history lesson 102: hey...did you know that the united states was founded by ENGLISH immigrants?? and did you also know that we have been by-and-large speaking ENGLISH in this land since the 1600s?

1/9/2008 2:01:38 PM

in my experience, the foremen or crew leaders are the ones that have to know most of the technical knowledge of the job and to perform well, they do have to be able to read and write. At the company I work for, there are 12 crews. Of the 12, 4 of the foremen are non-white, 9 are non-hispanic.

but i am not talking about supervisors. I am talking about the people physically doing the work.

ok...back to figuring out how to spend hard-earned tax money.

peace

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 2:05 PM. Reason : .]

1/9/2008 2:04:22 PM

Quote :

"hey, history lesson 102: hey...did you know that the united states was founded by ENGLISH immigrants?? and did you also know that we have been by-and-large speaking ENGLISH in this land since the 1600s?"

good one. but it wasn't only the english that settled in the "new world" so it wasn't only the english that helped to shape the foundation of our country. also, the point was that it seems really ignorant to suggest that we force everyone who immigrates here to speak english. fine, make it a reqirement if you want to build buildings, but other than that, it is just a dumb argument. especially since the united states considers itself a "melting pot" or whatever. there isn't a lot of diversity if everyone is required to be fluent in the same language. i just think it is stupid to attach a stigma to those that don't speak english. i don't feel thats such a bizarre opinion.

1/9/2008 2:06:13 PM

^^ yes but a large influx of German immigrants made German one of the larger languages in this country at one point... particularly in the midwest

if it hadn't been for those pesky World Wars we might be speaking German right now

there is no national language

1/9/2008 2:06:45 PM

^^ because certainly you don't need english to do everyday things... like driving and reading signs

Speaking of driving, at least Jose Cuervo is understood by both languages, because they sure are causing a lot of drunk driving deaths when they shouldn't even be here.

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 2:08 PM. Reason : .]

1/9/2008 2:07:36 PM

Quote :

"there isn't a lot of diversity if everyone is required to be fluent in the same language"

theres way too much fucking diversity if people are speaking 200 different languages

hey isnt a common language (LIKE ENGLISH) a good way for diverse people from all over the world to be able to communicate? isnt that a great concept? its a melting pot, its not 50 different pots that are all different

Quote :

"the point was that it seems really ignorant to suggest that we force everyone who immigrates here to speak english"

no its not really ignorant...it makes perfect sense

i dont want to have to "force" them but if you decided to move to italy for example...wouldnt you take a little initiative and learn some italian?

1/9/2008 2:12:10 PM

you (they) still have to pass driving tests. and i know you're going to say people are driving illegally, evading the system, sneaking all their little illegal children/mothers/babies mamas/brothers/sisters etc drivers licenses blah blah blah. maybe that happens, but THAT problem doesn't stem from not having english as the national language.

^ um, they DO take initiative and learn english. people get frustrated when an illegal immigrant isn't fluent though. do you want to pay for their language lessons?

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 2:16 PM. Reason : .]

1/9/2008 2:15:04 PM

in the 1600's they hated the irish, not the mexicans. If i'm not mistaken, it was once illegal for irish to serve in the military because of them being 'prone to alcoholism' or some such shit.

1/9/2008 2:15:28 PM

Quote :

"they DO take initiative and learn english"

as they should

Quote :

"people get frustrated when an illegal immigrant isn't fluent though"

i get frustrated when they flat out dont know english...i didnt study Spanish in school for 9 years to be required to speak it in the US

Quote :

"you (they) still have to pass driving tests."

they also have to go through customs when they cross the border...they all do that too, right?

1/9/2008 2:16:01 PM

Quote :

"do you want to pay for their language lessons?"

No, they shoudl learn it if they want to take a driving test (IN ENGLISH) or become a citizen (test also IN ENGLISH)

1/9/2008 2:18:59 PM

As long as the President isn't Romney, Guliani, or Huckabee, I'll be happy.

1/9/2008 2:21:59 PM

Quote :

"I'd like to see Ron Paul win, but I'll be happy as long as it's NOT Hillary. "

I'm sure the gold standard would be great for our economy.

Also, who needs the federal reserve?

JEWS
JEWS
JEWS
JEWS
JEWS
JEWS
JEWS
JEWS
JEWS
JEWS
JEWS
JEWS
JEWS
JEWS
JEWS
JEWS
JEWS
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JEWS

1/9/2008 2:50:32 PM

Quote :

"yes all the college kids and teenagers that used to work in the fields (migrant labor anyone?). oh wait, those were SLAVES "

I am going to go ahead and call it.... khcadwal is a drunknloaded alias.

at least I hope so.

1/9/2008 3:04:51 PM

Quote :

"they also have to go through customs when they cross the border...they all do that too, right?"

excatly. and i don't think that the people crossing the border illegaly should be held 100% responsible. thats fine, tighten the border. but the people that are already here are the issue. and the problem is that people don't want to grant them citizenship, but they don't want them to benefit from living here illegally. so then, what is the answer? you can't just deport everyone who doesn't speak english or who came here illegally. they got in in part due to our inefficiencies. and i don't think a stigma should be attached to everyone who doesn't speak english. i agree, changes need to be made. i just disagree with people who simply propose shipping everyone out. and the truth is that there are racial undertones to any immigration issue.

1/9/2008 3:08:37 PM

^ You steal a candy bar from a convenience store and you would probably blame the store for not having an armed guard.

Unbelievable.

Quote :

"and the truth is that there are racial undertones to any immigration issue."

because you obviously have to be a racist to believe in the enforcement of laws.

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 3:18 PM. Reason : .]

1/9/2008 3:14:33 PM

i dont think its possible at all to deport a significant number of people, and whatever the best solution is, nobody knows it yet, or if they do they havent implemented...its simply not feasible to deport tens of millions of people

i just figure, even though english isnt technically our national language, its basically our national language...pretty much all immigrant groups over the years have learned english over a couple generations...if an illegal who doesnt speak english has a kid and they go to american schools, they'll probably learn english alright, and their kids will have an even better, and natural, grasp of the language

but knowing english is very important in this country, even with programs that cater to non english speaking people, specifically spanish speaking people...lots of industries and regulations now require bilingual posters / signs / notices but often those are based on particular areas or communities with high immigrant density populations

i just dont think its necessarily a stigma as much as a necessity...i dont feel the best way to integrate them into our society is to make special arrangements for them so they dont need to learn english, because there are definitely areas in california, texas, and florida among other states, where you dont need to know a single word of english, and perpetuation of those type instances is not the right way to go

^apparently sovereignty is inherently racist...not in other countries though, just the US

1/9/2008 3:17:45 PM

^ Right on. Every immigrant group has immigrated here and ASSIMILATED.


There seems to be a total lack of care to assimilate in some communities.

1/9/2008 3:19:36 PM

should I tell her now or later that Mexico arms their border with Guatemala in an apparent act of sovereignty, I mean racism.

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 3:21 PM. Reason : .]

1/9/2008 3:20:44 PM

^^^^^ that was sarcasm, clearly.

^ i never said arming the border was racist. i just said there are racial undertones to all immigration issues. meaning that you are always going to have people that argue a certain way simply because they don't want a certain race in the country.

you can be as condescending as you want, but it doesn't mean that i am stupid and you are completely right. i am just stating points that have already been tossed out in the immigration discussion.

1/9/2008 3:28:40 PM

actually, it's not that you're stupid, it's that you're incredibly arrogant by calling people who are pro law and order, racists.


There are going to be racists whereever you go, and I can tell you, the weakest thing you can do is play the race card.

1/9/2008 3:31:15 PM

i didn't call you racist. i said there are racial undertones to all immigration issues. that doesn't mean that that people who want a more secure border are racist. it means that in situations that involve different races, RACE will play a role whether it should or not. i feel like everyone can agree with that comment. you get people who jump on the immigration bandwagon because they want the "spics" to go back to their country. that is all i am saying....that immigration is an especially sensitive issue because it deals with race.

and you aren't arrogant by assuming that i am not pro law and pro order.

Quote :

"you can be as condescending as you want, but it doesn't mean that i am stupid and you are completely right. i am just stating points that have already been tossed out in the immigration discussion."

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 3:36 PM. Reason : .]

1/9/2008 3:35:37 PM

well i'm not voting for romney because he's a mormon
and im not voting for huckabee because he's a baptist
but im not voting for any of the other republican candidates either.... because they are republicans

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 3:42 PM. Reason : ]

1/9/2008 3:36:53 PM

only people i'm voting for are mccain or obama

1/9/2008 3:37:22 PM

Quote :

"you get people who jump on the immigration bandwagon because they want the "spics" to go back to their country"

and you get people like you, who do nothing but play the race card and try to make it a racial issue instead of a THEY BROKE THE LAW issue

1/9/2008 3:38:32 PM

ok ok treetwista, they broke the law, what do you suggest now

1/9/2008 3:39:21 PM

they must return from whence they came... and apply for a visa or greencard, like the legal ones do. Then I will perfectly welcome them into our country.

1/9/2008 3:40:26 PM

^^i honestly dont know, but it has nothing to do with race

Oeuvre is pretty much right on what to do for new immigrants but as far as the illegals who are already here, its gonna be a tough decision that should be a huge issue in the upcoming election since we can't just count on them to do the law abiding thing and go back to their country of origin

1/9/2008 3:41:15 PM

I think they should do what the European Invaders did in the 16th century and just murder everyone until the land is theirs. Seems like the "American" way.

1/9/2008 3:42:54 PM

TEST

1/9/2008 3:43:19 PM

^^ AMURIKA IS SO BAD

1/9/2008 3:43:45 PM

more like, bad-ass

1/9/2008 3:44:21 PM

wat?

1/9/2008 3:44:41 PM

Quote :

"Seems like the "American" "Entire Western Hemisphere's" way"

1/9/2008 3:45:13 PM

Quote :

"we can't just count on them to do the law abiding thing and go back to their country of origin"

haha

1/9/2008 3:46:46 PM

Quote :

"we can't just count on them to do the law abiding thing and go back to their country of origin"

I thought we actually took them there when they're deported?

If we can't deport them all, then it should definitely be the case that if an illegal breaks the law here, they should be immediately deported. I'll be damned if I'll take another country's undesirables.

1/9/2008 3:49:17 PM

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1/9/2008 3:49:45 PM