most relevant jobs first...don't start with grocery stocker

2/24/2007 2:08:30 PM

guess i'll chime in on the resume as well...

Quote :

" Objective: Seeking entry level position in the are of Software Development/Testing"

agree with others, it is too generic. i had one teacher suggest a "summary" instead. mine is something along the lines of "Computer Science graduate with strong interpersonal and problem solving skills developed from experiences in iterative development and customer service."

That lets them know what you bring to the table right up front.

Quote :

" Work Experience: Grocery Stocker 6/2005 - present Meijer, Grand Haven, Michigan -Stocking Groceries, Helping Customers Retail Store Solutions Support 8/2004 - 12/2004 IBM, Raleigh, North Carolina -JAVA Programming and maintenance of problem database CSC 116 Teaching Assistant 1/2002 - 5/2002 North Carolina State University, Raleigh, North Carolina -Teaching JAVA Programming Lab, Grading Projects and Tests "

Listing duties doesn't really do much for employers. They know what a grocery stocker or TA does. Tell them what you accomplished. Did you have some specific project or task? What skills did you learn?

Quote :

" Education 8/2001 - 6/2006 North Carolina State University, Raleigh, North Carolina -Bachelor's Degree in Computer Science -Three Dean's Lists -Experience with the following programming languages: Java, C/C++, JSP, HTML, PHP, SQL, VB. -Experience with computer networks, security, database management 3/1999 - 5/2001 Melbourne High School, Melbourne, Florida -High School degree in 2001 -Experience with Pascal, Java and C++ programming languages "

drop high school. i would drop the 2 "exp" sentences and add relevant coursework.

Quote :

" Honors -Eagle Scout"

fine i guess, perhaps just put the deans list info here instead

Quote :

" Skills -Programming -Computer Networking -Microsoft Office Excel Access PowerPoint -Microsoft Windows -Unix / Linux -SQL Database -Typing "

flesh this out more. programming, networking, etc dont really mean much to anyone. put the languages you know here and/or at least put a qualifier on how much networking you know (basic, advanced, expert knowledge...just dont overestimate or you'll have an awkward interview).

typing!?!?! get rid of that unless you type at 100wpm or something, at which point you should note that. you arent a receptionist though, so no one cares.

2/24/2007 2:15:28 PM

Definitely make your skills section look a little better. Throw in some nice formatting, get rid of high school data, and don't include work experience that is not relevant to the position you are applying for. I had a gpa less than 3.0 and got 3 job offers about 2 weeks before graduation. Also, don't get frustrated after just a few applications. I probably sent out about 30 resumes the last couple of months before I graduated.

2/24/2007 3:08:35 PM

Quote :

"(And NO PERIOD at the end of the sentence after a bullet). "

lollerz

2/24/2007 3:19:07 PM

no one hires eagle scouts

2/24/2007 3:50:07 PM

Get rid of typing as a skill! What the heck, man? If you can program, I should hope you can type.

2/24/2007 5:53:06 PM

And as for the length of time, don't sweat it. I know some bright kids I graduated with back in '05 that are still trying to land a good job.

2/24/2007 6:02:02 PM

-- OBJECTIVE : get rid of it. thats what the cover letter (or body of the email) is for. obviously if you're applying for a programming job... then the objective is redundant.

-- WORK EXPERIENCE: describe skills used/learned and projects accomplised. Stocking Groceries Inventory Control Helping Customers Customer Service. Did you organize any projects or efforts? Did you lead any work groups? Did you do anything on your own initiative? If you worked in a group of two or three, and ever gave any sort of instruction to your group, then you can say you're a "Team Leader". Fill this shit out man.

"java programming and maint of problem database"... thats too vague. talk about specific things you did, programming environments, tools used, projects worked on, etc.

-- EDUCATION: get rid of the dates. Just say "graduated 2006" ... were you involved in any extracurricular activities to any extent? talk more about the skills you learned and used. the environments, the toolsets. WHat kind of networks, security systems, databases? get rid of the high school -- big waste of space.

-- HONORS: put your Dean's list here. Say somthing like "Made Dean's List Multiple Semesters"... Eagle Scout is good, but don't just leave it hanging all alone. Briefly describe a couple of the community service projects you did during your time with BSA.

-- SKILLS: flesh that out with more specifics. use keywords so when employers do database searches your resume will pop up. the way it is now, theres really nothing there to get any "hits" on.

-- MOST IMPORTANTLY: start applying for every goddammed job you can find, all over the country. make your goal to send out 10 separate resumes a day..

I always send an email with a "cover letter" in teh body, attached with the resume. My coverletter is essentially a template, which i tweak just a little bit for each employer to make it look like a personal letter, but really i just change a few words here and there and add a custom line or two. It got to where i could easily knock out 10 submissions in an few hours. the worst ones are the jobs that want you to fill out everything on their webforms rather than sending an email.

Therefore you need at least 2 copies of your resume, maybe more. One in MS Word (.RTF is best), One in plaintext formatting. Convert all tabs to spaces. and maybe One in HTML... but i never really needed/used HTML. Just .RTF and .TXT

2/24/2007 6:21:17 PM

and finally, ERIK, dont get overwhelmed with frustration.

this shit happens to everyone. I lost my job after a year of being out of school, and it took me 6 goddamn months to find another job, and that was with a year's engineering experience. admittedly, i was trying to break into a different type of industry than my experience was in.. but still.

dont sweat the GPA thing, man. so maybe it isnt the best, and so maybe you're not going to go work at NASA. Oh well. My GPA wasnt so hot and i have a really cool job now.

you will probably need to look outside your hometown area. You probably already know that. tehre are plenty of places that hire NEW GRADS and put them through a training program. Look into John Deere and Caterpillar. they hire tech grads and move them all over the country in a huge training program for two years. Ive heard its quite fun and you learn a lot, that you always have a mentor, and youre with a lot of new grads all the time. Thats just For Instance. There are many others.


The thing is, the real key, is that you have to approach job hunting like it's a full time job in itself. I mean, find a day to really sit down and work 8 hours at getting your job stuff together and applying for 10-20 jobs.

you can do it. its just a lot of effort at the start, but it gets better. soon youll have a decent job in your field and things will be way easier. Just dont get in a rut where you sit around and feel sorry for yourself, cause that will get you nowhere.

2/24/2007 6:41:23 PM

After looking through your photo gallery, I'm sure you were expecting someone to say "IT'S BUSH'S FAULT YOU CAN'T GET A JOB BECAUSE THE ECONOMY SUCKS!"

The fact of the matter is, you have no experience and your resume is far too generic. CSC grads are getting tons of offers these days. If you had been on top of shit during school you'd probably have the "which offer do I accept?" dilemma.

How come you only had one rotation with IBM? That right there should say something. If you were any good your manager would've wanted you back. At the very least you could've gotten another rotation with some other team. Oh yeah, and you shouldn't have done a four month rotation, you should have done one that included the summer as well. Four months isn't enough time to get into a job.

And how come you don't have any professional references on your resume?

[Edited on February 24, 2007 at 6:45 PM. Reason : ...]

2/24/2007 6:44:12 PM

a lot of people dont put references on their resume. bring that shit with you to an interview. references arent necessarily the best way to determine quality hires.

2/24/2007 6:45:56 PM

Quote :

"you must have just not tried hard at all - i accepted a job offer 5-6 months before graduation my cumulative gpa was under a 3 if you have had to result to tww you are 100% not doing something right how many of the successful people on tww used it to get where they are - it is a great place to ask for help on certain subjects but to just basically say it's been 6 months and i can't get a real job with my degree means you are definitely not doing something right - especially with the way the market for CSC grads is right now "

first lets get something straight, i didn't "resort" to the the tww, it was 6:40 am, i had not sleept in over 3 days and i was BORED

second, thanx for all the tips so far

2/24/2007 6:46:17 PM

One final bit.... this is advice i got from a professional employment consultant:

When you're a new grad, going for entry-level jobs, you probably want to put your EDUCATION first... because thats more relevant to the job your applying for. unless you have a lot of specific and relevant WORK EXPERIENCE, you put that second.

in your case, i think you should put your EDUCATION (at NCSU) first on your resume. and really fill that out with some details. thats going to get you the job interview. not so much for your EXPERIENCE.

the fact is, your resume right now, the very first thing that jumps out is "Grocery Stocker". and that really isnt what you want to emphasize, you know?

2/24/2007 6:47:59 PM

You're not kidding about sending out a shitton of resumes. I did the same thing. Actually, my best luck came not from 'applying online' on a company's website, but from physically mailing someone a resume.

Working in the professional world I've learned that most companies have job listings on their website.... hell, even on Monster.... but they have no intention half of the time to hire anyone outside of their own workplace. From what I hear, by law they have to publicly advertise the job opening (Correct me if I'm wrong?). I know my company posts all kinds of job openings, but even before this is done, they already have plans of promoting someone from within.

When I was searching for jobs, I literally would get on 'Local Google' and look up every company I could find and send them a resume with ATTN: Engineering Manager or something of the sort. I actually cold called some companies and asked to speak to the engineering manager... introduced myself, asked if he would mind if I sent him a resume in case of any future openings, etc. When I mailed it, I included a cover letter saying I was the one he spoke to the other day. This at least puts the human element to a piece of paper and shows that you're actually a hard worker (I mean, you really just cold called some person you didn't know). Not sure if that's something that's frowned upon by any other posters on here... but it worked well for me. I got 2 interviews that way and actually had requests for a few more after finding a job

2/24/2007 6:51:51 PM

Quote :

"And how come you don't have any professional references on your resume?"

because only an idiot puts his personal and professional references on a resume.

dont do that. dont be the guy who posts his professional refs on a resume that gets transmitted around every goddamn employment forum for spam harvesters and email scammers to pick up.

put a tag on your resume that says

"PROFESSIONAL REFERENCES: available upon request."

and xienze dont be such a prick to the guy. he's trying to get legitimate advice. not everyone is as brilliant as you.





[Edited on February 24, 2007 at 6:53 PM. Reason : ]

2/24/2007 6:52:00 PM

Quote :

"And how come you don't have any professional references on your resume?"

I Don't include references on a resume....and it's not really bad not to

You need to keep it under 1 page, and that takes up far too much space. Have them on hand and ready to go if they ask for them (And as mentioned, always take them to an interview)

2/24/2007 6:53:55 PM

I'll also add to this:

Not sure if you've been sending cover letters when you're mailing physical resumes. Always do. When it comes to cover letters, resumes, and references....all three should have the exact same font, font size, and the same heading (Name, number, address, etc...)

When you're writing cover letters, always try to include something about his company so he knows you're not just mass mailing letters. Talk about what they do (research the company) and relate that to what you know how to do. (Not what you want to do, necessarily, either. Again, It should be about how you can help them)

[Edited on February 24, 2007 at 6:58 PM. Reason : ]

2/24/2007 6:57:14 PM

Honestly, this guy sounds a bit like a water baby, anyway. A lot of the shit in this thread is basic stuff that they even taught in college. I predict a Barnes and Noble soft landing.

2/24/2007 7:49:31 PM

Quote :

"8/2001 - 6/2006 North Carolina State University, Raleigh, North Carolina"

You shouldn't make it so obvious that it took 5 years to finish your undergrad degree.

2/24/2007 8:12:44 PM

Quote :

"you will probably need to look outside your hometown area. You probably already know that. tehre are plenty of places that hire NEW GRADS and put them through a training program. Look into John Deere and Caterpillar. they hire tech grads and move them all over the country in a huge training program for two years. Ive heard its quite fun and you learn a lot, that you always have a mentor, and youre with a lot of new grads all the time. Thats just For Instance. There are many others."

i'm in caterpillars program & it really is a blast. considering positions outside of raleigh was the golden ticket

2/24/2007 8:28:49 PM

christ, everyone has different opinions on what's right and what's wrong in resume-making
BUT I would listen to Joe_Shmoe and a couple of other people here who have taken the time to look at your resume and gave good advice on fixing it.

Don't get discouraged, it took me a long time to find a decent job after i graduated too.
PM me if you have any questions or I'd be happy to read over anything you're thinking of submitting like a cover letter or your resume

2/24/2007 8:30:10 PM

Quote :

"well i would stress b/c its hard to live with no money and working at a grocery store sux"

haha, all that money for a degree and you are stocking fucking groceries.

2/24/2007 8:46:05 PM

^ STFU cunt

2/24/2007 9:36:34 PM

^^Thanks for being of absolutely no help. We now know to ignore anything you have to say from now on.

2/24/2007 9:40:05 PM

I can't get a job either.... but my degree is in Film Studies.

2/24/2007 9:43:39 PM

Quote :

"You shouldn't make it so obvious that it took 5 years to finish your undergrad degree"

true.

and I dont' advertise that it took me 7 years to finish my undergrad. cause then Im tempted to explain how i had to take 2 years off to get involved with an alcoholic dope head chick so I could drink like the fool I always wanted to be... and job interviews always start going downhill after that

the final result is, once you get your first job and work at it successfully for a year or more, and dont fuck it up, you'll be set and no one will give a damn about your transcripts or GPA.

... you just might have to work your ass off to land that first job, though. its not going to just fall in your lap.






[Edited on February 24, 2007 at 9:52 PM. Reason : ]

2/24/2007 9:44:14 PM

I'd recommend shift+del'ing your resume, read this http://ncsu.edu/career/students/resumesletters/index.php, and create a new one. Basically, you are being judged by this one piece of paper. You need to pour over the details so that it makes a good impression.

Out of curiosity, did you have any interviews? Details and impressions are just as important in interviews.

[Edited on February 24, 2007 at 10:08 PM. Reason : ?]

2/24/2007 10:07:14 PM

I posted a damn csc job offer on here three months ago. Someone from tww actually got the job. I don't recall you submitting your resume to me. Get off your ass and try a little harder.

2/25/2007 12:52:57 AM

"Grocery Stocker" should be renamed to "Product Relocation Specialist"

When I did tech support, I listed it on my resume as "Field Services Support Technician" had an employer ask me what exactly that means and I told him tech support. We both laughed and he said "Well, at least you're not lying." p.s. I got the job.

2/25/2007 1:18:50 AM

Degree =/= Guarantee

And this might not make you feel any better:

Forbes.com: Raleigh is nation's best city for jobs

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/16723058.htm

2/25/2007 1:20:00 AM

i've been looking for a real job for around a year, don't feel too bad

2/25/2007 1:46:58 AM

Quote :

"Raleigh is nation's best city for jobs"

Im sure that, somehow, in your own special way, you think you're being helpful.

but if youd bother to RTFA before chirping in, you'd see that he is in Michigan, not Raleigh.

Besides those rankings are statistical fluff pieces designed to sell magazines. It aggregates a lot of factors including income growth, median household income, and cost of living,

it says nothing about entry level opportunities. if raleigh wasnt relatively low cost of living, it wouldnt have broken the top ten.

2/25/2007 1:57:31 AM

You inspired me to finally take time to sit down and make a resume. Thanks!

2/25/2007 2:59:51 AM

Quote :

"Make absolutely sure there are no spelling, grammatical, or punctuation errors in your resume."

and no one caught his typo in his objective? as an employer, that for me is bad esp being the first thing i see

Quote :

"Objective: Seeking entry level position in the are of Software Development/Testing""

[Edited on February 25, 2007 at 3:03 AM. Reason : k]

2/25/2007 3:02:29 AM

Several people have already mentioned that.....

2/25/2007 3:35:42 AM

^^^^ First, joe_schmuck, I don't chirp. Know it, learn it, live it. I read the guy's user info and he lists Raleigh as his hometown--so I went with that.

Second, no shit that a ranking of this type "aggregates a lot of factors," dick! That's what the ranking represents. And anyone should know to consider the cost of living in a city before accepting a job there--so I have no idea what your point is.

Third, nobody cares what you think. STFU.

PS: How's that "suspend hooksaw" thread going? "Yeah, I know right."

[Edited on February 25, 2007 at 4:20 AM. Reason : .]

2/25/2007 4:12:53 AM

PWNT

2/25/2007 4:18:04 AM

I used to have objective in my resume but usually leave it out now, seemed unnecessary and a waste of space. If I apply for a job, it should be pretty clear what my objective is...

[Edited on February 25, 2007 at 4:38 AM. Reason : .]

2/25/2007 4:35:09 AM

Let me steer the topic away from the op for a minute and get the input of the people who have jobs and/or have given interviews. Do all companies necessarily look for candidates with leadership skills and initiative? Obviously each company is looking for a little something different and every job has its own requirements, but if I were to walk into an interview and unable to demonstrate that I was the leader of some project could I pretty much assume that they won't give two shits about me? Because I don't really consider myself a leader, and I wouldn't say that I've ever taken much initiative. I don't need somebody to constantly hold my hand, but I'm perfectly content to take orders from somebody. I can work by myself, I just need somebody to give me a task to do. But I can't really say that I've ever had to tell anybody else what to do or that I've ever done something that needed to be done without being told to do it. So will this necessarily disqualify me from any job? If I don't display any leadership or initiative, should I just go work as a janitor?

[Edited on February 25, 2007 at 10:16 AM. Reason : blah]

2/25/2007 10:16:01 AM

some employers expect it as a "standard resume element." if you make it describe your experiences briefly, as i showed earlier, then it actually has some useful scan value.

2/25/2007 10:18:14 AM

Quote :

"Do all companies necessarily look for candidates with leadership skills and initiative?"

Sure seems that way to me. I don't know why they'd want everyone to be leaders, but whatever. Between being an officer in a club and naming some times where I took charge in school projects, I usually have enough to talk about.

[Edited on February 25, 2007 at 12:00 PM. Reason : ]

2/25/2007 11:59:29 AM

yeah, you dont have to be the leader of 12 clubs or a manger or anything, just show how you have been creative and taken initiative in past jobs or projects. i talked about how i offered some new ideas in clubs i was a member of or how i dealt with problem individuals in major projects and did fine.

2/25/2007 1:09:46 PM

Quote :

"the fact is, your resume right now, the very first thing that jumps out is "Grocery Stocker". and that really isnt what you want to emphasize, you know?"

what if he wants to work at harris teeter?

2/25/2007 3:29:00 PM

Quote :

"A lot of the shit in this thread is basic stuff that they even taught in college."

Nobody ever taught me how to write a resume or do an interview.

2/25/2007 3:37:14 PM

I'm pretty sure all Engineers and Scientists have to take ENG 331 or 332, which devotes a lot of time to resumes and cover letters.

Quote :

"but if I were to walk into an interview and unable to demonstrate that I was the leader of some project could I pretty much assume that they won't give two shits about me? Because I don't really consider myself a leader, and I wouldn't say that I've ever taken much initiative. I don't need somebody to constantly hold my hand, but I'm perfectly content to take orders from somebody. I can work by myself, I just need somebody to give me a task to do. But I can't really say that I've ever had to tell anybody else what to do or that I've ever done something that needed to be done without being told to do it. So will this necessarily disqualify me from any job? If I don't display any leadership or initiative, should I just go work as a janitor?"

Not at all. It makes you like most people. Obviously, some jobs are leader jobs and some jobs are team member jobs. Make sure you sell yourself to team jobs. But you should frame yourself as a member of a team. If asked a leadership, talk about it in the context of a team member, ie I saw this problem and took the initiative to do something about it or talk about how you provided guidance and leadership to less experience team members.

The real problem comes in if you aren't a leader, don't have initiative, and don't work well with others. It probably won't keep you from getting a job, but it will keep you from succeeding in one.

[Edited on February 25, 2007 at 4:37 PM. Reason : ?]

[Edited on February 25, 2007 at 4:37 PM. Reason : ENG not ECE]

2/25/2007 4:26:53 PM

They did in my technical writing class.

2/25/2007 4:27:12 PM

Quote :

"because every goddamn job description I look at asks for a minimum of 3 years of experience. At first I was shaking my head and thinking "how the fuck am I suppose to have any years of experience for you when I'm just starting out?" But I guess that it's my responsibility, not theirs."

this is just to weed people out

apply anyway

2/25/2007 4:45:27 PM

joe 3
hook 0

dude, you're so easy to troll.

2/25/2007 4:46:11 PM

Quote :

" if I were to walk into an interview and unable to demonstrate that I was the leader of some project could I pretty much assume that they won't give two shits about me? Because I don't really consider myself a leader, and I wouldn't say that I've ever taken much initiative. I don't need somebody to constantly hold my hand, but I'm perfectly content to take orders from somebody. I can work by myself, I just need somebody to give me a task to do. "

no, you dont have to necessarily be a leader. everyone cant be a chief, there still needs to be indians.

but you do have to show something thats going to set you apart from the masses. any job worth anything is going to have other people applying for it. why should they choose you over someone else? this is a competition.

so you have to show that you have some initiative. tech employers want someone who can work independently and think creatively, and will contribute to the success of the team above and beyond just coming in, punching a clock, working 8.0 hours, and leaving.

having led a project in any way will obviously help

but even if youre not a leader, just showing how you took responsibility for your part of the project, and took initiative to do it as well as possible, perhaps going above and beyond the minimum effort required, to contribute to the overall project success.

employers want real examples. you need to make yourself relevant to them. they dont want to just hire a warm body to fill an empty seat.

if you dont appear somewhat inspired and motivated, your not going to make an impression.

and people who dont make an impression generally dont get called back.






[Edited on February 25, 2007 at 5:07 PM. Reason : ]

2/25/2007 5:04:11 PM

but the fact is that going somewhere as an engineer, or generally any position that requires a 4-year university degree, you are eventually going to be expected to be something of a leader or mentor, at some level.

because most employers arent just filled with BS and MS and PhDs.. most employers have a core workforce that includes lots of people with no college education or tech with applied 2-year degrees.

Yeah, im coming from a manufacturing industry, where 75 % of our workforce are techs and skilled labor, without university degrees

my position just puts me as a salaried employee along with the supervisors and upper managment. I am, whether I like it or not, in a rather visible position. I dont normally go around directing people, but i am expected to lead by example and give instructions from time to time to some of the production supervisors. Sometimes I have to present ideas and proposals to executive management.

and eventually, once youve been in your job role for a few years, you ARE going to be expected to start leading teams at least at a technical level.

Therefore, employers are looking ahead to the long-term employment potential, to judge if you have any amount of future leadership potential.

this is a secondary concern to the primary job duties being looked to fill, but if you come off as a slacker with no motivation, they arent going to want to invest in you.

2/25/2007 5:19:11 PM