that's just it about this place...clash between balls out handling and daily driver practicality, or dd vs top speed or turbo lag or whatever

and all you people who say REAL racing involves turns...real racing involves driver vs driver on the same course at the same time, regardless of track layout, 4 left turns, straight line, road course, whatever

what a rant

4/7/2006 10:39:09 PM

Quote :

"yeah you can make them handle, but you the ride sucks after. i wouldnt want that for my dd"

an m3 with aftermarket suspension isnt comfortable either!

4/7/2006 11:33:25 PM

z28 - ~6-7k
BMW ~7k
5.0 GT ~ 3-5k
10k can do alot with a mustang...

[Edited on April 11, 2006 at 6:28 PM. Reason : .]

4/11/2006 6:27:41 PM

since when is peejay the bmw expert?

4/11/2006 6:38:48 PM

the m3 stock feels fine, and is leaps and bounds better than a mustang or camaro that they have gotten to handle well

4/11/2006 6:44:01 PM

a guy i know ran a 1:50 in a bone stock M3 w/ street tires this past weekend at VIR.

(VIR North course)

[Edited on April 11, 2006 at 7:10 PM. Reason : adff]

4/11/2006 7:10:07 PM

A guy I know ran 1:51 @Road Atlanta a few weeks ago in a bone stock M3/4 on all season tires.
Ahmet

4/11/2006 8:26:31 PM

^ I know nothing about road atlanta, or what is a good time there, but damn, everytime there is a thread about anything ahmet is up here talking about m3s or m4s, give it a break.

4/11/2006 9:04:35 PM

lol

4/11/2006 9:05:25 PM

m4s rule

4/12/2006 8:42:56 AM

hahaha...i'll take you all down w/ my M2

4/12/2006 9:08:36 AM

Quote :

"since when is peejay the bmw expert? "

i've seen dan's in pieces on the garage floor (read cabs,rtabs,power steering explosions, strut hat swap, fender roll, seat swap and refabrication of brackets)

Quote :

"the m3 stock feels fine, and is leaps and bounds better than a mustang or camaro that they have gotten to handle well"

true but buying a BMW with 100K will need new suspension, and thats the perfect opportunity to put some konis on..there goes the nice ride so dont tell me a well prepared BMW is more comfortable than a well prepared mustang

4/12/2006 11:16:26 PM

lol

4/12/2006 11:18:58 PM

A 'well prepared' Bmw is leaps and bounds more comfortable than a 'well prepared' Mustang.
Ahmet

4/13/2006 2:46:25 AM

Im well aware mustangs are not the most comfortable cars. Despite that I love my car Im not trying to argue that mustangs are superior cars above everything else, because I know damn well they are not. Im just tired of hearing about M3s and BMWs in almost EVERY thread, and how the M3 is the best car ever made blah blah blah. Its old, its not that great of a car, get over it.

4/13/2006 3:04:13 PM

if the m3 is not that great of a car - where do you rank the mustang at?

the m3 isn't the end-all-be-all car - but sitting next to a mustang it is

it's superior in just about every way

4/13/2006 3:06:08 PM

not really, sorry. Yes, it is a better car than my 94 gt, although for the money paid for one, probably not a better value. Since we are comparing high performance versions of cars, lets put it up against an 03 cobra.

lets see:
2003 M3 1/4 mile time: 2002-up= 13.85, 0-60 5.3 seconds, original MSRP 46,500 (and thats the coupe).

2003 Mustang Cobra: 1/4 time: 12.9, 0-60 4.5 seconds, original MSRP 33,460.

sorry, look at the specs and the prices. not only would the cobra waste the M3 in not only a drag race, but probably a road course as well, it costs 13,000 less.

you lose.

4/13/2006 4:50:47 PM

drag strip, yes
Road coarse, probably no.

4/13/2006 5:56:14 PM

M3s (or Bmws really) are not made for people that will look at spec sheets and compare hp outputs with price, etc. You're doing the same 911 vs. corvette thing. Dollar/performance (and in this case if you define performance as 0-60 or quarter mile) is not what Bmw is aiming at...

I've owned dozens of cars now, I've never liked one as much as I like the e36 chasis M3 as a 'compromise' car. It's not the fastest, it's not the most comfortable, etc., but as far as a one car for all purposes thing, it's REALLY hard to beat.
Ahmet

PS: Howcome even an 03 Cobra doesn't come with one touch sunroof or one touch up windows, heated power seats, etc. that my "old" m3 had? Does it have an average speed read out, or an outside temp display, how'bout a trip computer? Why not, howcome? Because Ford doesn't make the Mustang for people who care about more than just acceleration/image vs. dollar spent.

4/13/2006 6:11:33 PM

http://www.eventpersonnel.com/car%20stuff/bmw.htm

cobra vs M3


oh and i didnt want to bring this up but....

money shifting, rear shock mount failure....and if i went 328 subframe tears wtf!

[Edited on April 13, 2006 at 8:24 PM. Reason : a]

4/13/2006 8:21:33 PM

The rear subframe failure I will give you, that kind of thing's not really acceptable, and it SHOULD not happen (it's on non M cars however, as you seem to know).

The 'money shift' on the other hand is not the fault of the car, the tranny will accept 2nd gear even when you're doing 90mph, that's a GOOD transmission, and the driver who finds 2nd instead of 4th, and proceeds to let the clutch out (and not push it back in as the revs shoot up) is the 'problem'.

Rear shock mount's also under-engineered, but then again that's a very inexpensive and easy fix.

No car is perfect, the M3 or Bmws are no exception. Infact, I was one of those that said the M3 was overrated until I owned an e36 (and later an M3) and started racing an M3 (and spending more time around them)...
Ahmet

4/13/2006 8:54:59 PM

ok i didnt want to waste my time in this thread, but peejay is a fucking moron.

1. rear shock mounts? a 15 dollar part that takes less than an hour to replace 2.

2. subframe failure? usually only on cars that are tracked or have heavy suspension mods. Mostly 325, as during the 328 production this was changed at some point. I have never seen a 328 with a subframe failure, it is quite rare but does happen as it did to me. $500 fix by a professional, end of the world? no and it is stronger then it was before!

3. moneyshift? that is just DRIVER error.

now please shut the fuck up. I dont care if you seen some guys car taken apart, we dont care.

now for your article, i dont think it said anything anyone didn't know

"Over roads where the cobra is really exciting, the m3 comes across as a little boring, a little to accomplished. Push it further, the edge of the envelope, and it lives for the moment like few other cars"

So basically any ordinary joe can push the limits of the cobra on a straight road? thats just gay.

then towards the end says " The cobra still suffers from detail areas that make the m3 so effortless at covering ground at such a high speed: things like control and pedal feel, seating position, and steering feedback. It would take time, which costs money, to rectify them and turn the mustang into a car that can run with the m3. And it would probably mean a mustang with a $40,000 price"

Basically this is saying the mustang is a inferior car, and lacks all of the refinements of the m3. Basically anyone can shove a big v8 into a car and make it handle marginally better than a average car.

4/13/2006 9:08:05 PM

Quote :

"ok i didnt want to waste my time in this thread, but peejay is a fucking moron"

except you posted twice and i'm sure lurked for days

the point is to discuss strengths and weaknesses and why they are there.

see Ahmet admits the flaws and gives good comment

yet you reply by being a flaming elitest douche

if i do pick a BMW i hope i don't become a cornhole like you

4/13/2006 10:03:36 PM

you should be happy, thats the first time i spent more than 30 seconds on a post.

don't pick up a bmw, we wouldn't want to put a good car to waste. The cobra would suit you much better.

4/13/2006 10:07:24 PM

i like how scottyc quotes some of the only sentences in the entire feature that praise the BMW, while the rest tell you how the Cobra is an excellent car, and a much better value than the M3. And despite that I was comparing an 03 cobra to an 03 m3, take heart in the fact that even whatever magazine that was found the cobra better than the m3....IN 1996!

4/13/2006 11:30:17 PM

So you are saying the quotes i posted were in opposition to the rest of the article? Look at any article from the period to now, and you will see the bmw always being praised over a cobra.

03 cobra vs 03 m3. Acceleration is the only thing the cobra surpasses the bmw in.

I am not sure if you are just ignorent, or plain stupid.

4/13/2006 11:35:49 PM

acceleration only? how about 1/4mile times, and price, not to mention reliability:

http://yoy.com/yoy/auto/m3_failwhat.shtml

HMMMMMMMM

and oh shit! this from a guy who works at a BMW dealership!

"ride quality---much worse than my stang with a pro-kit drop and tockico shocks/struts. peeing blood worse--similar to a 350z

i prolly hear more crap than anyone on here does about how the M3 is blessed by god and the mustang is junk--all day every day.

just ask them how thier rod bearings are doing and mention your stang was never recalled for a major engine issue."

[Edited on April 13, 2006 at 11:43 PM. Reason : hmm]

4/13/2006 11:41:21 PM

1/4 mile times? what do you do in the 1/4 mile? ACCELERATE

obviously you don't know about early cobra failures. These have been fixed and bmw graciously extended the warranty to 10 years/100k, ask ford to do that!

Maybe there is a reason BMW has a huge following? maybe because it is a better car.

My challenge still stands, put my 93 200k+ bmw against your car any day. We can do auto-x, 1/4 mile, you name it.

Quote :

"acceleration only? how about 1/4mile times, and price, not to mention reliability: http://yoy.com/yoy/auto/m3_failwhat.shtml HMMMMMMMM and oh shit! this from a guy who works at a BMW dealership! "ride quality---much worse than my stang with a pro-kit drop and tockico shocks/struts. peeing blood worse--similar to a 350z i prolly hear more crap than anyone on here does about how the M3 is blessed by god and the mustang is junk--all day every day. just ask them how thier rod bearings are doing and mention your stang was never recalled for a major engine issue." "

[Edited on April 13, 2006 at 11:52 PM. Reason : aww did you talk to darren]

4/13/2006 11:45:14 PM

what early cobra failures might these be? I know someone with a cobra from every era since 1993 up to the 04s. The only problems I have heard of with cobras are the 1999s that were not up to the advertised power level, and every one of those was fixed with an exhaust upgrade, or something simple like that, much different from a rod bearing.

4/13/2006 11:52:20 PM

2001.

believe it or not i owned a cobra, for almost a week.

4/14/2006 12:00:56 AM

a search of the web shows no recalls on engines for 2001 cobras, the only recalls is the lack of power in the 99s, which I mentioned.

4/14/2006 12:11:00 AM

this is a stupid thread, has the buyer driven both cars? they're pretty fucking different & if you can't figure out what you want after a few test drives you are completely devoid of decision making skills.

4/14/2006 12:15:13 AM

2001 had problems? hence no 2002.

[Edited on April 14, 2006 at 12:28 AM. Reason : look into it more]

4/14/2006 12:28:32 AM

what has the world come to when we start comparing mustangs to bmws??? I drive a 99 cobra, i love it, but its still a mustang. and as far as which one rides better, handles better, is faster, etc... its all about how much money you can throw at it. the more money you got the better the car will be. so just go test drive each car in stock form and pick which suites you best. if you cant decide after a test drive then you shouldnt be buying the car in the first place.

and 2001 didnt have problems, they skipped a year in america because of the "new" cobra coming out in 2003. all 2002 cobras were sold in australia.
99s were the only major recall, they replaced the catback, reprogrammed the computer, and acid dipped the upper intake for better flow. some of the eariler recalls got new extrude honed intakes but the later ones got acid dipped.

[Edited on April 14, 2006 at 12:37 AM. Reason : recalls]

4/14/2006 12:32:54 AM

wrong again, the 2002 was not built because all resources were put into development and builiding of the 03 cobra program, similar to how no 2005 or 2006 cobras were built, because all resources are going into the 07 GT 500.

4/14/2006 12:34:22 AM

2002 cobra, notice the extra headlights and steering wheel on the wrong side, ugly if you ask me.


[Edited on April 14, 2006 at 12:39 AM. Reason : .]

4/14/2006 12:39:27 AM

australia only on the 02s

4/14/2006 12:41:42 AM

indeed, as i indicated in my eariler post

4/14/2006 12:45:02 AM

oh sorry, i didnt see it

4/14/2006 12:46:32 AM

99 then, i dont remember.

I did search and there were refrences to problems with 2001.

4/14/2006 10:08:47 AM

its ford, they have problems every year, 99 was just the BIG problem, lucky me

4/14/2006 12:18:36 PM

real quick

why would you autocross a mustang again? My friend with a Cobra wheelhops viciously...

4/16/2006 1:28:50 AM

^he wheelhops 'cause he doesn't know how to drive. autocrossin' ain't about shitloads of power. it's not a dragrace. it's about being smooth and quick with agility.

4/16/2006 10:40:20 AM

believe it or not there are several camarobirds/mustangs. more miatas ofcourse tho.

underPSI....when are you bringing out the m3?

4/16/2006 10:51:35 AM

i do not own a M3.

better ask sparky.

4/16/2006 10:55:05 AM

I bought some parts from a guy in wake forest that has a 1995 cobra with a 347 stroker, but, he put a bunch of suspension parts on for autocross, and i dont know what parts they are, because i dont know shit about suspensions, but he showed me a video of it and he tore up some bmws, and corvettes.

4/16/2006 1:40:10 PM

^great post

4/16/2006 2:03:20 PM

^ damn, once again, you gotta make some smart ass comments because someone can actually make a mustang handle, and drive better than a fucking bmw, probably the car plus all the stuff he has done to it cost less than the bmw too.

4/16/2006 2:16:29 PM

Hearing second hand from ben94gt has now made me believe mustangs handle better than BMW. I mean the intelligence radiating from this guy is incredible. ALL HAIL ben94gt!!!!!!

4/16/2006 2:41:31 PM

you are just like the ignorant motherfuckers from my hometown that their parents bought them brand new STi's and just because they put some different mufflers on it, and maybe a short throw shifter or new blow-off valve, which was bought with their parents money as well, that they could beat my friend's cousin, who was a stock broker, and bought a 2000 vette, then upgraded the intake manifold and put a blower on it, put down over 475 at the wheels. These fags with the STis claimed that they would whoop this corvette up and down, but yet they would never race him, they would wuss out but keep talking their shit.

moral of the story, you are a giant douche and you think you know so god damn much about cars and shit, but in fact you are a moron that has his lips planted all over a BMW's ass. Just because a car is not an overpriced bullshit BMW does not mean it cannot achieve greatness. So quit being a toolbag and go back to jerking off to pictures of M3s.

4/16/2006 2:59:49 PM