^^^ I agree that's probably the best option, but i'm also not the most ethically upstanding person
\
Why should someone else have to compromise their ethics in order to just "get by." If everyone were like that, things would suck badly. This one guy made a choice to take on all of this, and there was a "better" solution, but his solution was the "right" one i think. And even if it causes him a lot of trouble, and even if he ultimately loses, we are all still better off in the long run. If he wins, we are all better off AND he is better off.

But, like TGD is saying, we're really only getting one side of the story, and we can't know for sure if his is completely accurately. He seems to admit that there were many better applicants than him for the grad program, and only cites a few classes that he seems to have done very well in, but the general tone of the letters and steps that the guy took also represent a bit of determination. So, it could go either way for him. in any case, he's in pretty deep as it is already.

[Edited on March 17, 2006 at 11:46 PM. Reason : ]

3/17/2006 11:46:18 PM

if the flyers' main point was about campus police...then its misleading

its not so much about campus police, but the University administration

3/18/2006 1:27:59 AM

^I don't think the flyer was misleading. It was organized and bulleted, but I think I recall "TOP COP CORRUPTION" being the main attention grabber.

I believe the flyers emphasized the police issue because he did actually win a case in court that addressed the capricious and arbitrary behavior of parts of campus police.

I'm not sure the flyers were posted or sanctioned by Mr. Boren, himself. ?

3/18/2006 1:55:21 AM

Well, the debate about his initial complaint is one I won't delve into, but the actions taken by the faculty and administration are chilling.

3/18/2006 2:15:18 AM

Given this guy's tenacity, is it really hard to believe that a few people in poe might be afraid of him? i mean, if this dude kept coming into the building demanding these documents, i might feel a little intimidated as well. I'm not saying a trespass order was justified, but that I understand how one could be brought up. I don't feel as though it is some cover up or conspiracy by the university to thwart him.

3/18/2006 3:48:11 AM

this guy obviously takes himself very seriously, probably too seriously, and should have contact lawyers and had this taken care of outside of their arena... ie, in a courtroom, not the classroom.

3/18/2006 6:26:37 AM

Quote :

"i mean, if this dude kept coming into the building demanding these documents, i might feel a little intimidated as well."

I know right, If I had engaged in a conspiracy to falsify a student's grades out of revenge, I would probably feel threatened when someone came around snooping for that information also.

I CAN TOTALLY IDENTIFY WITH THE TRUE VICTIM HERE

3/18/2006 9:42:26 AM

Quote :

"is it really hard to believe that a few people in poe might be afraid of him?"

probably not. but if they really were afraid of the guy, why were they not named and why did they not come forward to support the university's position against the guy when this issue was brought up before the judge?

[Edited on March 18, 2006 at 10:14 AM. Reason : *]

3/18/2006 10:14:28 AM

^^
on the assumption his grades were "falsified"...as opposed to the more likely option that some data-entry monkey just put everything in wrong

---

Quote :

"30thAnnZ: why were they not named and why did they not come forward to support the university's position against the guy when this issue was brought up before the judge?"

Probably differences of legal opinion. Sounds from the papers that the Attorney General's office felt that information was confidential (as it can be under certain circumstances with state employees). The judge clearly disagreed -- so rather than acquiesce, they preferred to just lose the case on the trespass issue.

---

Quote :

"AxlBonBach: this guy obviously takes himself very seriously, probably too seriously, and should have contact lawyers and had this taken care of outside of their arena... ie, in a courtroom, not the classroom."

That's the thing about people who take themselves "too seriously" though, they think they understand everything well enough to do it all themselves. Hence the "professional pro se" people you see down at the Wake County Courthouse -- some of whom have been banned for their litigiousness.

And Bridget, the phrase "arbitrary and capricious" in that document is just the legalese way of saying "The University has not prevented sufficient evidence in court to justify the trespass order." It's not equivalent to "OMG NCSU is out to get j00!!1"


[Edited on March 18, 2006 at 10:18 AM. Reason : ---]

3/18/2006 10:16:22 AM

Quote :

""The University has not presented sufficient any evidence in court to justify the trespass order." "

that sounds pretty bad too. and it still sounds like they're shitbags.

this shit reminds me of West Raleigh 3

3/18/2006 10:24:58 AM

Campus police trespass people at the drop of a hat. They've trespassed people just for sitting in their cars on campus. More commonly they trespass bums all the time. Basically if the situation looks sketchy they just premptively trespass and be done with it.

3/18/2006 10:25:03 AM

Quote :

"as opposed to the more likely option that some data-entry monkey just put everything in wrong"

3 different times, on 3 different forms with the exact same number?

3/18/2006 10:38:03 AM

Quote :

"I genuinely think that, for a person in this person's situation who is uncomfortable with the question, the best option is to just bullshit."

What you and the rest of the people reading this seem to have missed is that he completed the assignment. He had concerns with the assignment, brought them to the attention of the teacher and completed the assignment. That assignment in and of itself was not what caused him to file a grievance. It was his suseqequent treatment by the professor in question. Assuming this account is accurate he is entirely in the right. From my own experiences with dealing with NC State I can easily see this happening as described and so I have a slight inclination to believe him. Unfortunately the university does not seem to be interested in clearing the matter at all. He certainly should get in touch with a lawer or with FIRE if he really wants anything from this.

As far as the person who said he should have waited for the hearing because it's the only fair thing to do I don't quite buy that. The university has an amazing ability to set hearings for things and in the notice to you it always states that if you do not attend then the case will be considered without you. If I had a problem with something at the university I would certainly want it handled sooner rather than later, especialy since it seems that was entirely possible given Fox's letter to that effect.

3/18/2006 11:29:56 AM

Quote :

"30thAnnZ: 3 different times, on 3 different forms with the exact same number?"

Asking your question a different way, do you really think a professor with a Ph.D. and years of experience in "the system" would falsify grades in such an obvious way, instead of figuring out how to change grades and escape detection?

3/18/2006 11:32:27 AM

^ If my years in the system would lead me to see that the university would respond to such with a non response, why not? It wasn't like he was going to see the papers originaly.

3/18/2006 11:48:40 AM

^^ Read the university's response on page 1 of part 6:

Quote :

"I have computed the averages and will take the necessary action to correct them in the University admission databases"

That indicates to me that the GPA had been tampered with pretty heavily. Not only that, but they were going to destroy the records.... The possibility that this shit was accidental seems pretty slim.



I like how he cc'ed that last letter to the N&O.

[Edited on March 18, 2006 at 12:13 PM. Reason : ]

3/18/2006 12:09:01 PM

Quote :

"30thAnnZ: 3 different times, on 3 different forms with the exact same number?"

Quote :

"TGD: Asking your question a different way, do you really think a professor with a Ph.D. and years of experience in "the system" would falsify grades in such an obvious way, instead of figuring out how to change grades and escape detection?"

Yes, I do!!! But, anyway, how do you know Dr. Robinson has a Ph.D.? Why do you assume that she's the only one who could have changed the documents?

TGD, 30thAnnZ asked you a question. What you came back with didn't even address what he was concerned with: 3 different times, on 3 different forms with the exact same numbers???

[Edited on March 18, 2006 at 12:24 PM. Reason : sss]

3/18/2006 12:23:41 PM

^
I answered his question, just not the way you wanted. The assumption that any professor would jeopardize their six figure salaries to get access to databases restricted to other staff just to fake the GPA of some random wholly-insignificant kid from the hundreds of others they deal with on a daily basis -- much less in such an "obvious" manner that said wholly-insignificant kid would notice -- is not only silly but profoundly arrogant to think you're that important or such a "threat" to this University.

---

Quote :

"BridgetSPK: Why do you assume that she's the only one who could have changed the documents?"

I'm not assuming she's "the only one" -- I'm assuming she's the catalyst, primarily because the guy you're defending without any evidence to support his argument says as much.

---

Quote :

"SaabTurbo: That indicates to me that the GPA had been tampered with pretty heavily."

howtf does that passage indicate they were "tampered with", much less "pretty heavily"??? It says they were wrong and would be corrected. Some work study student could have slacked off and punched in some numbers, and the Dean says "You have a point, I'll fix it."

---

Quote :

"SaabTurbo: Not only that, but they were going to destroy the records...."

As required under records retention provisions of the North Carolina General Statutes, not NCSU policy.

I'm amazed by this thread. I guess I should have just stuck with...




[Edited on March 18, 2006 at 12:44 PM. Reason : ---]

3/18/2006 12:41:14 PM

This is interesting, I'll have to read more of it later...

3/18/2006 12:46:13 PM

See, TGD, you keep coming back with, "This isn't believable." And that's cool, I guess. You don't have to buy it. I'm skeptical too. When I read it, I was concerned with the fact that, according to him, he admittedly decided to file his first grievance RIGHT AFTER he was not accepted into the graduate program. The timing raises some flags with me.

But, if you buy the "three times on three different forms with the same numbers" part, I don't see how you can possibly claim that's an "error." That is "falsification." Furthermore, I'm shocked that you aren't concerned with the Univerity's unwillingness to investigate the falsification. He has letters (may be tampered with?) where they basically say, "You would not have been admitted into the graduate program so the grade errors are a moot point now." THAT IS ABSURD.

3/18/2006 12:55:30 PM

^^^ Haha, no, they're coming to get him.

3/18/2006 1:48:53 PM

I don't believe the University was totally out to get him.

But I believe the University is an institution that rarely questions itself or its procedures and integral members of the University stand behind themselves 100%, right or wrong. If they question themselves or their rules, then they're not as strong or credible as they're supposed to be. They also believe they're protected from a lot of things so its easy for them to shirk responsibility to different powers in the University (University lawyers, the Chancellor, Campus Police) to get things to go away instead of actually fixing problems.

I think he's a victim of the system more than a victim of some professor and her cohorts.

And computer data errors happen all the time...I don't believe it was intentional...but at the same time it was wrong.

[Edited on March 18, 2006 at 2:06 PM. Reason : Big Brother is watching....]

3/18/2006 2:01:55 PM

Quote :

"The assumption that any professor would jeopardize their six figure salaries to get access to databases restricted to other staff just to fake the GPA of some random wholly-insignificant kid from the hundreds of others they deal with on a daily basis -- much less in such an "obvious" manner that said wholly-insignificant kid would notice -- is not only silly but profoundly arrogant to think you're that important or such a "threat" to this University."

Why do you assume that a 6-figure PhD wouldn't stoop so low? Look at Martha Stewart. The money involved there was pocket change for her. Or Claude Allen. He's presumably intelligent--certainly well educated, well paid and well connected--yet he gets caught stealing shit from Target.

The fact that someone has a degree doesn't neccessarily mean that they're above lying, cheating, or petty retaliation. In fact, depending on the type of person she was, she may very well have been incited by the questioning of a mere undergrad: "I'm a PhD teaching an education class! How dare you question my assignment."

3/18/2006 2:36:04 PM

the grade issue raises SIGNIFICANT questions about the grad school application process. the chances that all three of those numbers would be alike are rediculously low and should have raised a flag somewhere in the system that something wasn't right. how many other applications are denied because the grades weren't entered correctly (if that was the case)? transparency is required in the process for the process to gain any respectability.

3/18/2006 4:14:50 PM

Quote :

"rediculously"

3/18/2006 7:31:02 PM

so?

3/18/2006 7:49:38 PM

Quote :

"BridgetSPK: But, if you buy the "three times on three different forms with the same numbers" part, I don't see how you can possibly claim that's an "error." That is "falsification.""

Fine, I'll agree it's "falsification" -- in the same way fake voter forms submitted by kids working for NC PIRG were "falsification." But I'm not going to follow everyone else and go "OMF University conspiracy!!1" without actual evidence.

---

Quote :

"A Tanzarian: The fact that someone has a degree doesn't neccessarily mean that they're above lying, cheating, or petty retaliation. In fact, depending on the type of person she was, she may very well have been incited by the questioning of a mere undergrad: "I'm a PhD teaching an education class! How dare you question my assignment.""

And the explanation for doing it in such an obvious manner prone to easy discovery?

---

Quote :

"HaLo: the chances that all three of those numbers would be alike are rediculously low and should have raised a flag somewhere in the system that something wasn't right."

Agreed.

[Edited on March 18, 2006 at 9:14 PM. Reason : ---]

3/18/2006 9:12:46 PM

I'm not saying that she did or didn't do it--though I think that there's some definite shadiness on the University's part. But your assertion that she would not do anything this obvious/blatant because she's a 6-figure PhD and he's a nobody is just as tenuous as those who say she is guilty because of the grade 'mistakes' and the resulting 'cover up'.

3/18/2006 9:26:15 PM

Quote :

"ohnHGuth and Kodiak, you didn't even get into it. If you read it all the way through, you would not call this kid a tool or assume he's bitching about a grade."

i read it all before i posted, and i really want my hour back

3/18/2006 10:29:44 PM

i agree, i want my hour back. i dont know how you all can get so worked up about this when all you hear is one side of the story. you've all seen "that guy" in your class that is a total asshole, and would do this sort of thing. it's possible that everything he says is true, but i doubt it.

1) it sounds like a lot of this is his fault. he didn't go through the process correctly; he didn't give it a chance and then complain. he immediately assumed bias.

2) he should have contacted a lawyer earlier in the process, the fact that he didn't indicates to me that he really doesn't have a good case.

3) the idea that it's "falsified" on three different forms really doesn't mean anything. what if it the incorrect GPA was accidentally entered on one form, then copied onto another? why does everyone assume three distinct cases of malice?

4) the dude had a ~2.7 GPA, if i read correctly. how exactly does this qualify you for grad school again?

5) finally, reading this whinefest is such a pain when the included dialogue is selective and always followed by some sort of backhanded comment towards the administration.

sure, it sounds a little fucked on both sides. but you shouldn't just hop on this guy's bandwagon right away.

3/18/2006 10:48:08 PM

When due process doesn't work, there are always dark alleys and lynch mobs.

3/18/2006 11:00:54 PM

wow i just read the whole thing.


...wow.

3/18/2006 11:49:55 PM

wow

way to go NC State

I knew there was some dark shit going on there

3/20/2006 11:20:49 AM

I'm surprised jackleg and FroshKiller haven't come to this thread

maybe they know better though

3/20/2006 11:23:46 AM

Know better? Younce is the jerk who withheld my copy of the affidavit to their search warrant. I've got nothing to contribute to this thread until I've had my day in court (COMING UP ON YEAR TWO SINCE INITIALLY BEING CHARGED BTW), except to say that I hope I don't get some of you dumb motherfuckers on my jury.

[Edited on March 20, 2006 at 12:29 PM. Reason : ...]

3/20/2006 12:28:58 PM

i thought this thread was gonna be about Alberto Gonzales

3/20/2006 3:13:08 PM

ah, bunch of politics and loopholes.

i feel sorry for this boren guy. looks like he put years of effort into this whole ordeal, and really got nothing out of it but a website that documents the details of it all.

i wonder how much boren is gonna pay for the hit on robinson.

3/23/2006 9:56:11 PM

Quote :

"Whatever. I would recommend getting that sandy vagina of yours looked at."

lol i use that expresion a lot too. hehe @ sandy vagina!

3/24/2006 7:31:41 PM

1. Your letter was too elementry and just blame pointing
2. please improve your handwritting before entering the working world




3. that is all

4/24/2006 10:41:13 AM

Well now that i think about it, I have a story

I sent in a complaint about how ugly the official NCSU website was about 4 years ago.

I got a reply e-mail from an NCSU employee threatening to force a "re-evaluation" of my qualifications of enrollment
She sent the e-mail to my webmail account
I sent the original letter from my hotmail account
I made no mention of even being a student in my letter

That means she had to do some work to find out my name (it was not listed on my account, and I didn't even sign the letter), run a check on current students to see if I was one, then send me the requisite flame/threat to my new webmail account so i would know she knew exactly who i was and that she was pissed enough to fuck with my future about expressing my distaste with the website layout

"Please do something about this ugly portal to our beloved university" was what my e-mail consisted of. Nothing more. Nothing less.

It does appear to be a running theme here: The whole University seems to be completely saturated with the joy of blackmailing the people who pay them so much money and rely on them. And most often over nothing more than "being mad"

4/28/2006 7:39:01 AM

Has Technician covered this thing yet? I don't read it every day...

4/28/2006 11:10:17 AM