^
Well, he might exaggerate a little but one shouldn't go into a graduate degree blind to market realities. The academic job market is tough and even the most die hard lover of Hume or Kant might question ten years of post-secondary education when making 25K as an adjunct.

3/9/2006 8:19:09 PM

Quote :

" Honestly, it seems to me your gpa is a bit on the low side for admission into a humanities grad program."

Possibly, but I didn’t know what my gpa would when applying when I decided to aim for grad school. I guess I’ll know more after talking to the schools that turned me down.

Quote :

" Unless you don’t mind teaching at a community college, this was a blessing in disguise."

I actually wouldn’t mind doing that for a couple of years until I had a resume with experience to apply at a better place. Even long term teaching there would still be teaching.

Quote :

"one shouldn't go into a graduate degree blind"

Quote :

" even the most die hard lover of Hume or Kant might question ten years of post-secondary education when making 25K as an adjunct. "

Its not like I went into this totally blind... but aiming at grad school is a gamble, and something I had to decide on whether to aim for a couple of years ago. I tried hard, and missed the cut. It’s easy for people to say afterwards that I shouldn't have taken that gamble, but I'm looking for serious advice on job options, especially ones that would leave another try at grad school open down the road.

3/9/2006 8:53:17 PM

http://hr.unc.edu/jobseekers/tht/?folderView=collapsed

3/9/2006 9:41:26 PM

^interesting prospect

ill need to start worrying about health insurance though... not a sure a temp job is the way to go for that

3/9/2006 10:39:17 PM

Quote :

"Keynes, I love youi but you need to come off your high horse sometimes- and I can say that because I ride horses. We have plenty of PhDs from Carolina teaching here and we have plenty of our own PhD students working and teaching at quality institutions."

can you name an NCSU humanities PhD that is tenured at an Ivy League institution?

I mean, I'm sure it's possible there are a few, but can you name one?

3/9/2006 10:40:51 PM

part of the fun of applying to schools is always applying to one way out of your league school... and Princeton officially turned me down today. (Princeton’s a nice school for anything, but they are really top of the line for philosophy)

It was so out of my league that I didn’t bother mentioning it in this thread before now.

But now all I have left is my back up school.

3/10/2006 3:14:54 PM

^^ the point you make is not the point of either this thread or what Keynes was talking about. Keynes did not mention the Ivys. Keynes said that UNC Phds teach at App State and that NC State PhDs teach at Wake Tech. He basically was making the point that UNC PhDs were not capable of teaching at strong, research 1 institutions and that NC State PhDs could not even teach at the 4 year college level. UNC and NC State PhDs teach at many good schools. I have no idea if they are on the faculty of the Ivys, but I would be surprised if they were not. (I know a close family friend, a PhD from Carolina, did teach at Princeton when I was young) In any event, Ivys are not the only schools in the country that are worth a darn. If you think they are, then you might want to transfer. I am sure that there are UNC and NC State PhDs teaching at many competitive academic schools around the country.

And, I do know that there are faculty teaching here at State who have their PhDs from Harvard, Berkeley, Princeton, Chicago, MIT, UNC and more. If they don't find NC State below them or their expertise, then why should you?

And, as for Supplanter, for whom this thread really is about, I am glad you applied. I think the only thing really against you is your age. You are young. They probably think you have more time, and you do. Let's get the scoop on what UNC, UVA thought of your application. Talk to RiCHLANDSWOL in the Career Center, check out job opportunities related to higher level thinking and teaching, I will be glad to brain storm with you (PM and let me know when you can meet) and check job listings at UNC, here and UVA. Let's get you some work experience you will enjoy and that will put you in a better position to do this PhD thing in the future.

Now everyone get a life and go watch so basketball- and pray hard while you're out it. We're stinkin' up the floor.

3/10/2006 4:04:46 PM

Supplanter, try http://jobs.ncsu.edu , https://apprefp.hr.duke.edu/JP/ , http://hr.unc.edu/jobseekers/search.htm if you want to work at a nearby university. One nice benefit of working at a univeristy is the tuition waiver (i.e. never pay anything) aspect. Get accepted into a grad program w/o financial aid, take a course or two a semester, get your masters in 3 years. I know you are looking for a PhD, but its a starting point. For a non-university job, most employers offer tuition reimbursements (i.e. pay now, we pay you back later) ... downside is being away from campus/commuting to campus to take courses ... not as much flexibility if a course is scheduled at 10am or so.

Supp, my advice ... start planning out your finances a bit. See how much your monthly bills will be when you finish your undergraduate. Do this for a couple different scenarios ... as a fully funded PhD student, as a partially funded graduate student, as a normal 40hr/wk working person, etc. This helped me quite a bit when I was job-hunting ... realizing how long I could "float" and remain unemployed before bills and payments started to haunt me.

Also, with your degree, the academia track is the major road to go. Try looking down a couple of other roads, some directly related to your degree, some not directly related, and see if you find a career path other than academia you think you would like. Seems like your options aren't THAT limited ... just haven't explored them enough yet.

[Edited on March 11, 2006 at 7:46 AM. Reason : stupid crazycode parsing...]

3/11/2006 7:44:49 AM

Quote :

"Let's get you some work experience you will enjoy and that will put you in a better position to do this PhD thing in the future. "

She wouldn't steer you wrong- I think she has a good idea here.

Something else to remember too- every single year these schools get different pools of applicants. It might be that THIS year your application wasn't as competitive as some of the others. It could be that NEXT year you could apply using the same credentials and get it. You never know. Requirements change, faculty change (different research interests brought to univ), quality of applicants change........who knows.

3/11/2006 1:41:07 PM

Quote :

" One nice benefit of working at a univeristy is the tuition waiver"

^^Thanks for the info. It looks like I’m atleast qualified for receptionist/secretary type job and that UNC has plenty of them. If such a job qualifies me for a tuition waiver then a couple classes at UNC would be able to boost my application I believe.

I took one of the free career evaluation test things from the career center website. It seemed like it basically asked me what jobs am I interested in, and then responded by telling me well those are the jobs you are interested in.

Once OSU (my back up school) gets back to me, so that I can be sure whether or not I’m actually moving to Chapel Hill then I’ll start meeting with people and looking at my options more. So it seems like I have a plan now. But still any additional advice on grad schools, work, or scoops on jobs I might be qualified for in Chapel Hill is appreciated.

3/11/2006 2:05:15 PM

Yay - congrats on having a plan! You sound so much more optimistic - keep us all updated.

3/13/2006 5:29:34 PM

The best of luck for you man...

3/17/2006 10:21:26 AM

^^Its nice to have a plan, but I have a slightly harder time having confidence in plans working out after this. But I think things will work out. I’m touring apartments in chapel hill tomorrow. I’m starting to get excited about moving, even though I can’t commit to anything or fully prepare until I hear back from OSU. Waiting on them is leaving everything in a state of limbo. I’d almost rather get a rejection now, than get accepted a month or two from now just so the future will be more solid.

^thanks for the well wishes

It is kind of sad that after a college degree that I worked & took out student loans to get I am, according to the job descriptions, under qualified to be a receptionist making $20,000 a year. But maybe once OSU gets back to me, if I don’t get in or decide not to go, then I can find more options meeting with wolfeee, the career center, and talking to the schools that rejected me.

[Edited on March 17, 2006 at 10:51 AM. Reason : .]

3/17/2006 10:49:01 AM

How do you be under qualified to be a receptionist?

3/17/2006 10:59:23 AM

don't have enough actual work experience in the field, which is rated more highly than having only a college degree. but i figure they can't really mean it that much, i mean you have to start somewhere right?

3/17/2006 11:03:48 AM

jobs, for now. but if you want to go to grad school for philosophy you can do it. get some more applications and reapply. PhD programs in philosophy in north carolina are going to be extraordinarily competitive because there are only two of them and they're at really good schools. i don't know your GRE, but with that GPA you should be a very competitive candidate at florida state, south carolina, tennessee, georgia (higher competition but you should still have a shot), and kentucky.

Quote :

"can you name an NCSU humanities PhD that is tenured at an Ivy League institution?"

NCSU has what, one doctoral program in humanities. a brand new communication of science one. that may not be the exact language, but it's something like that. and maybe there's one in english too. but not more than that. (psychology, public administration, and sociology aren't humanities). three of those ivy league PhDs wolfeee mentioned work in the philosophy department.

3/17/2006 1:04:25 PM

Supplanter, I'm facing a situation a lot like yours, though in BME... had a REALLY bad Tuesday with 2 big rejections... Got a couple of hopes yet but I'm starting to get worried...

I'm playing the job search game now... I'm looking to either stay here, family support is a good thing, or move out to the Denver/Boulder area of Colorado (bf is in grad school at Colorado). I'm getting a bit frustrated with how just about every position seems to require "3-5 years of experience". I'm really wondering where that's supposed to come from (aside form Co-ops I suppose)!

3/17/2006 1:55:26 PM

The tool Supplanter probably used on the career site may have been Sigi plus. I was a tester for Sigi Plus when it we being made- I felt much the same way. There is a tool that costs just a wee bit of money that is much better (I think) and that is the Strong Interest Inventory. Its less than $30.00 and the info for it should be on the same page where you found the free items. It is given by someone in the counseling center certified in giving the exam and reviewing your information with you. The read out is much better and clearer- and even if it does not seem clear to you (it usually reads pretty well to a career counselor or an adviser). Going over the results with folk may help jump start your job search if you decide to take that route.

3/18/2006 9:17:09 AM

OSU rejected me today... that completes the full rejection from grad school now that my back up school said no. It looks like I'm moving to chapel hill. Right now I really don't care much why I wasn't accepted, and don't want really want to try again.

I'll try for an intro level staff position at UNC somewhere... atleast that way I can be serving the same cause (education) even if it isn't directly.

I'll going to set up a meeting with the career center for next week I think since I have either a test or quiz everyday this week. I'm not sure about paying to take a test though... money is going to get really tight, and I spent a couple of hundred on grad school applications already and those turned out to be a bad investment... and knowing what kind of work I'm interested in wont really change what kind of jobs are actually available. Aiming towards something interesting rather than something practical was my pitfall thus far, it would seem folly to fall into the same trap twice.

I know college isn't just about being vocational training, that its supposed to help improve your character and make you more knowledgable. But whats the point if you're going to have to keep living on a college student budget with loans for years to come? Perhaps I should have stayed in engineering, atleast then I could have done something I didn't enjoy for a higher salary.

[Edited on March 20, 2006 at 2:19 PM. Reason : .]

3/20/2006 2:17:38 PM

assuming there are 90 million college graduates in this country, probably about half have some useless degree. You are in a club with 45 million adults.

So what?

An undergrad major is like 10-15 classes. It's meaningless in the scope of things. If you don't like it, take classes part-time at UNC or engineeringonline.ncsu.edu until you can get into grad school in a vocational field. That's exactly what I did.

You might even be able to defer your loans if you are going half-time.

3/20/2006 4:53:36 PM

^^ Okay, you are bummed out now, but it is no reason to give up on your dreams or future. RH Macy failed in business 13 times before he was successful with the store that ended up being the biggest department store in the world (don't know if it still has that title, but it did well through the 80s).

Just eat the elephant one piece at a time. You have future. Career center will help. If you want to take the Strong, I will pay for it. when you are ready, not now, but by mid summer, next Fall at the latest, it would be good to call the schools and find out why you were turned down. And once you know WHY, you will know what to do about turning things around for future applications. In the meantime, Chapel Hill is not a bad idea. Come see me, see the career center, and let's get this party rollin'. Seriously, you have sooo many opportunities and things ahead of you.

3/20/2006 6:47:47 PM

^^^Look at it this way: Yes, your applications weren't successful this year. I don't think that "no" to things in life means "no, never", it usually means "no, not right now". Things didn't work out now but that doesn't mean that it will just work out better in the future. I was rejected at the last minute from an internship that was "a lock" three years ago. I wound up spending that summer in the lab I still work in, and got the internship the next summer. Had things happened the way I originally wanted them to, my life would be way different, and I definatley wouldn't have gotten into the caliber of grad school I got in to. Listen to wolfee, take some time to breathe, eventually find out what to do to help turn the apps around, and you'll get going again better than ever and you'll someday get into a school that *isn't* your backup school but is much better for you. Hang in there. We're young, we're resillient, and who ever said you had to be sure what you were going to do when you grow up the day of graduation?

3/20/2006 9:37:54 PM

^DAMN Good Advice. Listen to her.

3/21/2006 6:18:48 AM

thats good to know..

considering I didn't get into UT Austin or UNCC for Architecture grad school...

wolfeee, you saw my portfolio.... i wish u were on the committee

3/21/2006 10:48:26 AM

Quote :

"Overall, it was felt that your dossier was simply not competitive--ranking in the bottom 10% of those we received this year."

I decided to try to find out more about why I was rejected. That quote was from my back up school. Maybe I'm not that bright, I had to look up dossier to find out it meant my file.

3/21/2006 7:35:24 PM

So what that means is the competition was stiff, or that it was just a snotty answer. Next time you get something like that, ask them what the top 10% looked like in terms of the dossier's.

If you feel nervous about calling the UVA person, let me know. I will call for you.

3/21/2006 7:57:47 PM

Oh, and ARCBOYEE ("Suzy" ) if grad school falls through, you need to let me know. While I know you want Architecture, I may have some graphic design work for you. Did you apply to UVA and here?

3/21/2006 7:59:29 PM

" them what the top 10% looked like in terms of the dossier's."

I'll ask that way next time. I'm also looking into lateral entry high school teachers. I know some history could have over lap with my ancient and medieval interests. And I had an english class in highschool that went into greek mythology, and I had atleast heard of Plato a little bit back then. I might be able to find a way to make high school teaching work with my interests.

3/21/2006 8:20:43 PM

Quote :

""Overall, it was felt that your dossier was simply not competitive--ranking in the bottom 10% of those we received this year.""

ouch

well at least they are honest

time to move on - don't look back

3/22/2006 4:45:02 PM

threads like these really depress me

3/22/2006 5:12:47 PM

actually, having done grad school admissions, I think it was a pretty crappy comment. All it did was make him feel small and bad, and it did not provide any really useful information. So, if you get a comment like that, let it blow over your shoulder and ask the person what a strong application looked like. Press on and make them give you something and ignore the snobbiness.

3/22/2006 7:25:58 PM

i applied

uncc
ut austin
ncsu

still havent heard from ncsu

3/23/2006 12:43:58 AM

a snobby response from UVA?

get out of town!

3/23/2006 12:58:23 AM

dear tww,

It's thurs 23 march

I want to come back here next week and say I got in to NCSU for grad school.

kkthxunccandutaDIEkkthx

i really do.

that is all /anxious

3/23/2006 2:29:18 AM

Can you still apply to other less prestigious programs? Does NCSU have a program for you?

3/23/2006 1:39:03 PM

nah, all deadlines have passed, and most don't allow spring entry

just gotta bite the bullet

3/24/2006 12:05:32 PM

"That quote was from my back up school"

My back up, as previously mentioned was OSU.

^^^^UVA's rejection of me was actually as pleasant as someone turning you away from education can be.

NCSU doesn't have a PhD or even MA in philosophy. Although MA's in philosophy are fairly unheard of as terminal degrees. Within my time at state they have added what they call a graduate level minor... but its focused on bioethics or something very specific thats not targeted at students of philosophy.

3/24/2006 12:12:41 PM

http://jobsearch.monster.com/jobsearch.asp?q=philosopher

3/24/2006 1:13:57 PM

Ouch, you landed in the bottom 10 of your back-up school?

Seems like either you or the schools seriously misjudged your qualifications. Are you sure everything was sent in right?

3/24/2006 1:41:27 PM

UNC & UVA both lost stuff, but after sending things 3 or 4 times I was eventually confident that they had everything. They were my middle tier schools. OSU was my back up school which had no means of checking if they had everything, and they required way more paperwork than any other school. My one top tier school Princeton, which I applied to mostly for kicks (even though I had an alum of theirs who is my advisor and has had me for several classes & a one on one substantive paper class), was the only one that both allowed you to check up on things and managed not to lose anything even once.

I think the professor that I had class with who also worked with me on my research grant for philosophy was getting a little frustrated by the time she submitted her letter of recommendation 2 or 3 times to UVA and then had to fax it to them. At the time that schools were losing my stuff, it struck me as negligent for schools to take all that money from applying students, and then lose their stuff and not give them full consideration unless the student went the extra mile to check up once a week to make sure they hadn’t lost the stuff yet. But so goes bureaucracies.

3/24/2006 2:27:55 PM

yeah, on a similar note - NCSU and UNCC both lost my portfolios, and some references had to send in letters more than once

unorganized grad schools

3/24/2006 4:10:27 PM

^^^^ the top of the list was "CFO Chief Financial Officer - @ Surgical Information Systems Hospital I.T." Doesn't really sound like the kind of thing they hire ppl with philosophy degrees for.

3/24/2006 4:28:26 PM

sorry that one actually wants...

Quote :

"A doer with a strong work ethic, not a philosopher"

the others are right up your alley:

Quote :

"We want an architect who is also a carpenter, a philosopher who can also fish"

Quote :

"a philosopher or something of that nature is something that we look for"

provided you can fish I think it's in the bag

3/24/2006 5:23:56 PM

join the military

3/25/2006 1:30:53 AM

they don't let my kind join

3/26/2006 12:11:10 AM

any updates?

5/3/2006 1:30:24 PM

I had an unofficial rejection from one school, i'm glad I pestered them until they told me, b/c they only sent the official rejection last week. I tried our career center, they were very nice, but pointed me only to a fraction of the sites & jobs that I had already been looking into.

Right now i'm applying for secretary/receptionist type jobs at UNC & other jobs in chapel hill, if I can get a full time job with unc then maybe they'll offer me some tuition breaks so I can take an occasional class until I can get my resume stronger & try again at grad school. If those fall through then i'll start looking for retail & fast food jobs I guess.

I'm also on file with orange county & chapel hill city schools incase they have an opening for a lateral entry teacher. I went to a career fair for teachers & was basically told they theres very little chance of me getting a job anywhere in that county without going back to school... but if they need a teacher on short notice they might contact me in august. I've also done the epack & some other job sites. It'll be another month or so before i hear back on the first round of like 20 or so jobs i applied to; I’ll have a more substantial update then.

[Edited on May 3, 2006 at 2:09 PM. Reason : .]

5/3/2006 2:07:45 PM