Quote :

"^ Not a big starbucks fan personally, but, dude, if the shuttle inn is the same stuff as in EB2- it aint all that good.0"

which is why i mix it with the hot chocolate from the "cappucino" machine

10/29/2005 4:19:38 PM

i've had much better coffee for less than a buck. some of the gas stations around here actually have pretty decent coffee, there's one in garner that has really fancy roasts... it's 79 cents for a mug refill but the cinnamon flavor was delightful. i can't wait to try their chocolate/macadamia roast.

10/29/2005 4:34:57 PM

hey, you guys are great, look!

Quote :

"green LA girl's choice: Dirty Greek In addition to taking a couple challenges himself, Dirty Greek fielded questions (insults?) not only about the Challenge but also about fair trade in general from less-than-knowlegeable people on The Wolf Web. Dirty Greek got a lil help from J_Gatsby, who in frustration ended up calling naysayers "plebian fucks." Tee hee! ward: A 2 lb bag of Monkey & Son Velvet Hammer fair trade organic coffee."

http://greenlagirl.blogspot.com/2005/10/starbucks-challenge-awards.html

10/31/2005 7:02:58 AM

imagine that.

another dirty hippy agress with you.

who would have guessed.

10/31/2005 8:10:06 AM

I PREFER COFFEE THAT DOESN'T COME FROM CORPORATIONS THAT FORCE FARMERS INTO CO-OPS




IF YOU THINK THIS IS SUCH A LARGE ISSUE PERHAPS YOU SHOULD LOOK INTO COMPANIES THAT BUY COFFEE FROM SUSTAINABLE PLANTATIONS




BUT WHAT WOULD I KNOW ABOUT THIS

10/31/2005 9:57:41 AM

^ well nick, as I said earlier, I never go to starbucks. I found that this was a worthy challenge to take, however, since starbucks is so prevalent. I typically don't buy coffee at all, and when I do, I try to get shade grown or organic or fair trade or... well, you get my point. This was simply something I found interesting because it was such a huge company who was (hopefully) trying to do some good, so I checked it out.

10/31/2005 10:05:48 AM

i dont drink coffee btw, I just sell it



and no i dont work at a coffeeshop, I work for a wholesaler




but really FT coffees are so over hyped its not even funny, yeah, it's nice that the farmers get paid a fair price, but a more admirable approach is to buy from a estate that not only sustains the workers, but the local economy and infrastructure

[Edited on October 31, 2005 at 10:21 AM. Reason : plus starbucks is ass]

10/31/2005 10:19:56 AM

There was a thread in the soap box on this that sort of went off topic:

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=264344

But the quote from Cafe Hayek basically hits the nail on the head as far as this thread:

Quote :

"I know of no comprehensive empirical study of the welfare effects of the "fair trade" movement – that is, the voluntary efforts of retailers, such as Starbucks, to offer coffee and other goods with labels affirming that these goods were produced "fairly" rather than necessarily by the most economically efficient means. (Perhaps such a study, or studies, have been done; I’m just unaware of them.) Now I have nothing against any voluntary retailing efforts. If retailers (non-fraudulently) identify and label certain goods as being produced "fairly," and if consumers voluntarily choose to buy these goods, so be it. Nevertheless, if "fair trade" in fact harms rather than helps workers in developing countries (as I think likely -- see here), then the success of the "fair trade" movement in the U.S. and other developed countries might be an instance of market failure. That is, if enough well-intentioned consumers refuse to buy coffee produced by growers paying low market-clearing wages in places such as Guatemala and Ethiopia, then many people in these places who would otherwise secure employment paying them more than their next-best alternative will be denied these employment opportunities. So, the good intentions of American consumers that lead them to pay higher prices for "fair trade" goods might well harm the very people these consumers aim to help . The reason for this unfortunate unintended consequence is that these American consumers lack sufficient information and economic understanding. This paucity of information creates a market failure – where voluntary actions within the market generate a negative result that all involved would regret if they knew of it."

http://cafehayek.typepad.com/hayek/2004/11/fair_trade_as_m.html

10/31/2005 10:38:30 AM

Quote :

"it's 79 cents for a mug refill but the cinnamon flavor was delightful. i can't wait to try their chocolate/macadamia roast."

so instead of pure coffee, you prefer artifically flavored? how is that "fancy"?

i emailed starbucks about their fair trade practices.

(FROM CONCENTRATE)

most of their coffee could be fair trade certified. most of them are near organic status, but the farms either lack the funds necessary or don't have the time to get certified (takes about a year, maybe more).

they don't provide the funding, but they do provide advisors. the advisors are there almost every step of the way. showing them how to make more money for themselves.

they use a rather detailed checklist and the more points you have, the more money you make.

such as,

- no pesticide
- proper irrigation systems in place
- use of land management techniques
etc...

Quote :

"but really FT coffees are so over hyped its not even funny, yeah, it's nice that the farmers get paid a fair price, but a more admirable approach is to buy from a estate that not only sustains the workers, but the local economy and infrastructure"

i agree. there are so many estates that sell coffee and do a better job at it.

10/31/2005 10:45:34 AM

Quote :

"but really FT coffees are so over hyped its not even funny, yeah, it's nice that the farmers get paid a fair price, but a more admirable approach is to buy from a estate that not only sustains the workers, but the local economy and infrastructure"

absolutely agreed. This whole thing was actually the first time I've really researched free trade coffee, as I don't know much about coffee in general. as I said in my last statement, I would typically not go to starbucks, even though it's the closest coffee shop to my house (the next one being several miles away), but I thought this was a worthy cause to work on.

10/31/2005 10:55:59 AM

The big question is...

Where can I find my own farmer who will sell me coffee at $1.26 a lb? I hate knowing that I'd have to pay anywhere from $5 - $30 dollars for a lb of good coffee.

10/31/2005 11:29:36 AM

^ Fairy Fantasy Land.



Population: You.





and just to elaborate on Won's point, the farms/estates/whatever have to meet the qualifications for organic or FT, and maintain those standards for at least 3 years

[Edited on October 31, 2005 at 11:38 AM. Reason : it aint cheap or easy]

10/31/2005 11:34:24 AM

10/31/2005 1:34:41 PM

^Yeah, I always find Economic research by ROCK STARS to be absolutely irrefutable. Maybe he will tell me who to vote for and everything.

10/31/2005 4:12:29 PM

I wanted to piss someone off by posting that

and it worked

10/31/2005 4:16:59 PM