It's failed for some people.

5/1/2005 4:47:06 PM

Quote :

"^ Maybe, if Bush didn't rely so heavily on hiring mercenaries, the money would not have gone missing [stolen]. Mercenaries is how Bush is managing to avoid proposing a draft. "

1. I never said that I thought all of the money went towards hiring mercenaries. I kinda doubt that's a big part of it. I don't even see how we'd gain from it. Furthermore, the entire premise of what I said is that it very well might not even be missing or stolen--it could just be diverted from deliberately overfunded budgets into clandestine projects.

Furthermore, there is no danger of a draft. I don't know why in the hell you seem to hold onto that notion. If, in fact, we WERE hurting for manpower THAT badly, we wouldn't be able to hire enough mercenaries to do the job, especially without word getting out. Finally, it would be a shit ton cheaper to just offer reenlistment bonuses and stuff to existing troops.

5/1/2005 4:57:33 PM

Quote :

"Estimates of the number of private international security personnel range from 15,000 to 20,000. That is as much as 15 percent of the total US presence of about 130,000 soldiers. These private contractors -- who most often work for corporations, diplomats, or journalists -- have no accountability to the US military. These private security contractors can earn up to $1,000 a day."

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/mercenary.htm

5/2/2005 12:33:52 AM

And how many of those are private security teams for the various private companies operating in Iraq?

5/2/2005 12:43:45 AM

Quote :

"Peter W. Singer, a fellow at the Brookings Institution and author of "Corporate Warriors," estimates that there are 20,000 to 30,000 civilians in Iraq performing traditional military functions, from maintaining weapons systems to guarding supply convoys. If you add foreigners involved in reconstruction and oil work, the total soars to 50,000 to 75,000. To put this into perspective: All of Washington's allies combined account for 23,000 troops in Iraq. In the latest issue of Foreign Affairs, Singer quips that "President George W. Bush's 'coalition of the willing' might thus be more aptly described as the 'coalition of the billing.' " "

http://www.sunherald.com/mld/thesunherald/news/editorial/11312326.htm

BTW, Blackwater Security is based in North Carolina.

5/2/2005 12:51:44 AM

Quote :

""According to some estimates we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions," Rumsfeld admitted. $2.3 trillion — that's $8,000 for every man, woman and child in America. To understand how the Pentagon can lose track of trillions, consider the case of one military accountant who tried to find out what happened to a mere $300 million. "

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/29/eveningnews/main325985.shtml

5/5/2005 6:55:07 PM

I wonder how the investigation is going to find the missing funds.

5/18/2005 10:56:20 AM

No you don't. You just wanted this thread at the top again.

5/18/2005 10:57:56 AM

Quote :

"U.S. was big spender in days before Iraq handover By Sue Pleming Tue Jun 21, 6:32 PM ET WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States handed out nearly $20 billion of Iraq's funds, with a rush to spend billions in the final days before transferring power to the Iraqis nearly a year ago, a report said on Tuesday. A report by Democratic Rep. Henry Waxman (news, bio, voting record) of California, said in the week before the hand-over on June 28, 2004, the U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority ordered the urgent delivery of more than $4 billion in Iraqi funds from the U.S. Federal Reserve in New York. One single shipment amounted to $2.4 billion -- the largest movement of cash in the bank's history, said Waxman. Most of these funds came from frozen and seized assets and from the Development Fund for Iraq, which succeeded the U.N.'s oil-for-food program. After the U.S. invasion, the U.N. directed this money should be used by the CPA for the benefit of the Iraqi people. Cash was loaded onto giant pallets for shipment by plane to Iraq, and paid out to contractors who carried it away in duffel bags. The report, released at a House of Representatives committee hearing, said despite the huge amount of money, there was little U.S. scrutiny in how these assets were managed. "The disbursement of these funds was characterized by significant waste, fraud and abuse," said Waxman. An audit by the U.S. Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction said U.S. auditors could not account for nearly $8.8 billion in Iraqi funds and the United States had not provided adequate controls for this money. "The CPA's management of Iraqi money was an important responsibility that, in my view, required more diligent accountability, pursuant to its assigned mandate, than we found," said chief inspector Stuart Bowen in testimony. CASES OF ABUSE Auditors found problems safeguarding funds including one instance where a CPA comptroller did not have access to a field safe as the key was located in an unsecured backpack. Bowen's office has referred three criminal cases to the U.S. Attorney's Office in the past two weeks for misuse of funds. Bowen declined to provide details at the hearing. In one e-mail released in Waxman's report with the subject line "Pocket Change," a CPA official stressed the need to get money flowing fast before the handover. Rep. Stephen Lynch (news, bio, voting record) of Massachusetts, a Democrat, questioned why so much money had to be transferred so fast. Senior defense official Joseph Benkert said an infusion of funds was needed to address a wide variety of needs before the new Iraqi government took over. Part of the challenge in tracking how money was spent was the cash environment and lack of electronic transfers. Contractors were told to turn up with big duffel bags to pick up their payments and some were paid from the back of pick-up trucks. One picture shows grinning CPA officials standing in front of a pile of cash said to be worth $2 million to be paid to a security contractor. Rep. Christopher Shays (news, bio, voting record) of Connecticut, a Republican, said the photograph disturbed him. "It looks a little loose to me," he said, of the smiling officials. "I share your concern," said Bowen. Citing documents from the U.S. Federal Reserve Bank in New York, Waxman said the United States flew in nearly $12 billion overall in U.S. currency to Iraq from the United States between May 2003 and June 2004. This money was used to pay for Iraqi salaries, fund Iraqi ministries and also to pay some U.S. contractors. In total, more than 281 million individual bills, including more than 107 million $100 bills, were shipped to Iraq on giant pallets loaded onto C-130 planes, the report said. "

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050621/ts_nm/iraq_cash_dc

6/22/2005 1:42:27 AM

Quote :

"nimitz class carriers run about 6 billion a piece ship only"

we have ships named after admiral nimitz? Operation Paperclip anyone?

6/22/2005 2:13:00 AM

Funny how everyone can get their panties in a wad, with the oil for food scandal of the U.N., but no one cares when billions of our own money goes missing.

[Edited on June 22, 2005 at 11:57 AM. Reason : ]

6/22/2005 11:57:36 AM

^^ How was Nimitz involved in Paperclip?

6/22/2005 12:03:40 PM

Ripoff artists.

7/18/2005 11:07:46 PM

you mean like that $500 haircut that stopped all airtraffic at a major airport?

7/18/2005 11:11:42 PM

Still living in the past, I see.

Yeah. Clinton's haircut is comparable to almost 9 billion dollars disappearing.

7/18/2005 11:15:29 PM

nope. just goes to show that waste happens everywhere. don't be shocked by it now when you defended it before

7/18/2005 11:40:26 PM

Quote :

"According to a July 1, 1993, St. Louis Post-Dispatch article: The story was that planes were kept circling as President Bill Clinton had his hair clipped on Air Force One at Los Angeles International Airport last month. The runway haircut by Beverly Hills stylist Cristophe became such a metaphor for perceived White House arrogance that the president himself felt compelled to apologize for the reported flight delays. But the reports were wrong. According to Federal Aviation Administration records obtained through the Freedom of Information Act, the haircut May 18 caused no significant delays of regularly scheduled passenger flights -- no circling planes, no traffic jams on the runways. Commuter airlines that fly routes reportedly affected by the president's haircut confirmed that they had no record of delays that day. The FAA records show that an unscheduled air taxi flight had the only delay attributed to the closure of two runways for an hour in anticipation of Air Force One's departure. The air taxi took off 17 minutes after leaving the gate - two minutes late, by FAA accounting. "If you understand the air traffic system, you'd find that statement (that planes were circling) ludicrous," said Fred O'Donnell, an FAA spokesman at the agency's Western-Pacific regional office. The office responded to Newsday's May 21 request under the Freedom of Information law. O'Donnell said that although two runways were closed, traffic was light that afternoon and arriving flights were simply diverted to the two other runways. "It did not cause any problems," he said."

http://mediamatters.org/items/200506230001

Too bad our soldiers don't have proper body armor. Maybe the missing 9 billion could have helped. Where is the oversight on any of the missing money?

8/18/2005 2:23:52 PM

the problem isnt that they dont have proper body armor because of a supply issue.

its a technological evolution and procurement ability issue, not sensitive to time or money but reactiveness, or rather, a de-evolution on the insurgency's part offensively

[Edited on August 18, 2005 at 2:27 PM. Reason : .]

8/18/2005 2:27:05 PM

Quote :

"the problem isnt that they dont have proper body armor because of a supply issue."

That is such bullshit. The military had the same problem a year ago! Rumsfeld is incompetent and should be fucking fired!

8/18/2005 2:45:29 PM

Last I heard, the companies selling HumV armor to the army have refused to increase production any further until the government helps them find places to stash the pile of money they have been paid so far.

8/18/2005 4:04:11 PM

Rumsfeld actually makes all of the armor himself under his carport, he's just too lazy to make more of it.

8/18/2005 4:08:28 PM

Incompetence, corruption and mismanagement define this administration and Congress from top to bottom.

8/18/2005 7:18:29 PM

“Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of a corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all.”
—Michael Rivero

8/18/2005 10:46:24 PM

Quote :

"The tree of Liberty needs to be watered from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

---Thomas Jefferson

[Edited on August 18, 2005 at 10:50 PM. Reason : /]

8/18/2005 10:50:37 PM

this one is simple.

the 9 bill probably ended up as secret aid to israel.

8/18/2005 10:52:04 PM

You guys should realize by now that money in the government is ficticious in nature. It can just be created on a whim by adding or deleting numbers.

It should be that way w/ my bank account

8/19/2005 12:31:40 AM

“Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.”
—Mark Twain

8/19/2005 10:18:21 AM

what is your pragmatic solution pryderi

you seem to have all the angles figured out

8/19/2005 10:25:24 AM

they always have all the angles figured out

8/19/2005 10:30:23 AM

Quote :

"what is your pragmatic solution pryderi"

Hold people responsible for their incompetence and replace them would be a good start.

8/19/2005 1:34:19 PM

thats not pragmatic considering the constant evolution of the insurgency

8/19/2005 1:40:27 PM

What the fuck does the "constant evolution of the insurgency" have to do with supplying body armor?

8/19/2005 2:04:23 PM

Sure could use that money now...

9/1/2005 7:24:48 PM

yes, because clearly that 8 billion dollars wouldn't be missed where it was likely allocated: black ops projects...

9/1/2005 7:35:29 PM

umm.... if you liberals had your way you would have already sunk the 8 billion into some pork barrel welfare-queen black hole so stop acting as though this money would have just been sitting around waiting to be used

9/1/2005 7:38:36 PM

Quote :

"umm.... if you liberals had your way you would have already sunk the 8 billion into some pork barrel welfare-queen black hole so stop acting as though this money would have just been sitting around waiting to be used"

Quote :

"INTRODUCTION In his March 8, 1997 memorandum, President Clinton reiterated his commitment to providing employment opportunities to welfare recipients and directed the heads of the federal government's executive departments and agencies to lead by example and move people off the welfare rolls into federal jobs using available hiring authorities. The President asked Vice President Gore to oversee this effort."

http://www.opm.gov/wtw/#intro



[Edited on September 2, 2005 at 9:20 AM. Reason : eat it.]

9/2/2005 9:19:55 AM

You guys get all bent out of shape when someone misspends $2,000, but you don't give a fuck when almost 9 billion dollars go missing.

9/23/2005 8:53:17 PM

We do, trust me. It's just that we don't say anything because we know its just killing you.

9/24/2005 12:53:56 AM

9/25/2005 3:12:10 PM

^

Thus plainly showing that the author of that comic doesn't know shit about what socialism is.

Interventionism =/= socialism. I don't think Bush has suggested the government take over the means of economic production, lately.

9/25/2005 3:17:20 PM

BTW, if it isn't socialism, what is it when the means of production are privately owned and operated however all goods are purchased/sold to/from the government? A form of system where private actors bid for government contracts to supply the nation with what it needs?

For Example, let us assume the government decides the nation needs more gasoline refining capacity, so it publicly requests bids from all eligible companies. One wins, negotiating with the government the price which it will purchase crude from other state organized companies and sell gasoline at the price negotiated with the state only to customers the government deems eligible.
There was a high degree of autonomy because if you didn't like the terms offered by the state you could refuse. Also, if you managed to produce more than the contracted requirements you could use the surplus however you wished, such as selling it on the open market.

I think the Nazi's called it National Socialism, but they could have been wrong.

9/25/2005 3:35:37 PM

^

Socialism is when the government owns the means of production. What you are describing is NOT socialism, no matter how many times you use the word "Nazi."

What you're describing is mere interventionism, which is a basic practice of all governments, everywhere. The government is by definition an intervening entity.

You can disagree with the extent of George W. Bush's intervention, but calling him a socialist is wrong, disingenuous, and frankly, stupid.

9/25/2005 3:58:56 PM

^ Wow wow wow, slow down there betsy. I was honestly curious, I would never akin the US government to a socialist entity, much less GWB. You drew inferences where none were made.

Besides, I thought there was a more fancy word that just interventionalism... National Socialism is what the Nazi leadership called your "interventionalism."

9/25/2005 5:15:34 PM

^

I was talking about the cartoonist, who showed Tom DeLay reading a book entitled "embracing your inner socialist." Quite obviously he was making a symbolic point about the Republican party.

9/25/2005 5:18:21 PM

Well, tom delay to be more precise.
That said, they are moving in that direction. I realize they are no where near it, but federalizing disaster response is obviously not a states-rights form of response.

And expanding medicaid was a crime. They should have shrunk the roles in order to cover the added coverage. I realize it is silly to pay for emergency room service but not the medication which would have prevented the emergency, but it is equally silly to pay for emergency room service for a multi-millionare just because they are old.

9/25/2005 8:44:11 PM

Quote :

"Money for Nothing Billions of dollars have disappeared, gone to bribe Iraqis and line contractors’ pockets. by Philip Giraldi The United States invaded Iraq with a high-minded mission: destroy dangerous weapons, bring democracy, and trigger a wave of reform across the Middle East. None of these have happened. When the final page is written on America’s catastrophic imperial venture, one word will dominate the explanation of U.S. failure—corruption. Large-scale and pervasive corruption meant that available resources could not be used to stabilize and secure Iraq in the early days of the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA), when it was still possible to do so. Continuing corruption meant that the reconstruction of infrastructure never got underway, giving the Iraqi people little incentive to co-operate with the occupation. Ongoing corruption in arms procurement and defense spending means that Baghdad will never control a viable army while the Shi’ite and Kurdish militias will grow stronger and produce a divided Iraq in which constitutional guarantees will be irrelevant. The American-dominated Coalition Provisional Authority could well prove to be the most corrupt administration in history, almost certainly surpassing the widespread fraud of the much-maligned UN Oil for Food Program. At least $20 billion that belonged to the Iraqi people has been wasted, together with hundreds of millions of U.S. taxpayer dollars. Exactly how many billions of additional dollars were squandered, stolen, given away, or simply lost will never be known because the deliberate decision by the CPA not to meter oil exports means that no one will ever know how much revenue was generated during 2003 and 2004. "

http://www.amconmag.com/2005/2005_10_24/cover.html

10/18/2005 6:41:54 AM

well I guess we should throw in the towel

10/18/2005 10:24:29 PM

it doesn't matter what you guys say, because we (all the people living in america) will pay for it later.

10/19/2005 9:40:42 PM

Quote :

"...collaborating with NC State Department of Tranportation..."

[Edited on October 20, 2005 at 9:27 PM. Reason : ]

10/20/2005 9:26:52 PM

Quote :

" Money also disappeared in truckloads and by helicopter. The CPA reportedly distributed funds to contractors in bags off the back of a truck. In one notorious incident in April 2004, $1.5 billion in cash that had just been delivered by three Blackhawk helicopters was handed over to a courier in Erbil, in the Kurdish region, never to be seen again. Afterwards, no one was able to recall the courier’s name or provide a good description of him. Paul Bremer, meanwhile, had a slush fund in cash of more than $600 million in his office for which there was no paperwork. One U.S. contractor received $2 million in a duffel bag. Three-quarters of a million dollars was stolen from an office safe, and a U.S. official was given $7 million in cash in the waning days of the CPA and told to spend it “before the Iraqis take over.” Nearly $5 billion was shipped from New York in the last month of the CPA. Sources suggest that a deliberate attempt was being made to run down the balance and spend the money while the CPA still had authority and before an Iraqi government could be formed. "

http://www.amconmag.com/2005/2005_10_24/cover.html

10/24/2005 9:25:51 PM