Server Info for Page 19: 69.162.71.207

11/11/2010 7:38:34 AM

Dammit, you got my hopes up thinking it was up.

11/11/2010 8:05:24 AM

I want to get it up ASAP, but not until I can avoid most of the headaches involved. Some fixes are trickling out now, and more bugs keep popping up. There are a few that can actually corrupt the world files, so yeah. -_-

11/11/2010 8:34:00 AM

Apparently notch is working on fixing the worst of the minecart related bugs now. I've found workarounds for a few of them too. Maybe we can get that working today. Still have the huge performance hit to deal with, but at least it's something.

11/11/2010 9:04:40 AM

Is it possible to just disable minecarts and boats completely in the meantime? (Not sure if thats even a configurable option or not).

11/11/2010 9:55:35 AM

Looks like hey0 put out an unofficial version that fixes a lot of stuff:

http://hey0.net/Minecraft_mod.zip

Not sure if that is the one we use or not. I have a new skin for my dude too....

11/11/2010 3:32:50 PM

BOOBS

[Edited on November 11, 2010 at 3:33 PM. Reason : .]

11/11/2010 3:32:50 PM

11/11/2010 6:30:26 PM

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

11/11/2010 7:01:51 PM

There should really be cavewomen in minecraft. You could go out and club one and bring back to your cave, but she'd leave if she didn't like the way your pad was decorated.

11/11/2010 7:18:00 PM

Still not up?

11/11/2010 8:01:15 PM

No

11/11/2010 8:15:49 PM

Server will be up soon. Disabling minecarts/boats/a few other things.

Also it will be laggy. Also when you mine things the blocks will probably randomly reappear; this will happen a lot. Also you should all type \ in chat. Also you will probably freeze up/crash your client randomly. Also the server will probably crash/be really unstable. Also there may be some corruption/loss of work on the map between now and the next update (I am making a backup before it goes up). Also you may experience other frustrating bugs.

...or maybe it will work fine. Either way, I'm putting it up so you can enjoy yourselves. If I hear complaints about any of the bugs/lag/known issues due to this glorious update I'll ban you until the next update that hopefully fixes these problems, because I'm a dick like that.

All hail Notch, dev of devs: look on his code, ye Mighty, and despair.















Shit.

11/11/2010 8:21:09 PM

Can I get white-listed, please kind sir: thx1138

^edited to say "hang in there"... alpha's are a bitch, and I'm sure notch and the dev crew are figuring out how to work together, etc... Thanks for all the hard work on the server!

[Edited on November 11, 2010 at 8:29 PM. Reason : thanks]

11/11/2010 8:27:13 PM

^ I will update the whitelist before I launch the server.


I need no positive reinforcement, but thanks I guess?
I'm just expressing the general community consensus that Notch is currently breaking more than he's fixing.




That and I like banning people.


Going to pick up food, because I'm a fatty. Then I'll get the server up.

[Edited on November 11, 2010 at 8:33 PM. Reason : nom nom nom]

11/11/2010 8:32:44 PM

I mean what should we really expect?

The dude wrote a game in JAVA, then created a MMO out of it, again, in JAVA.

11/11/2010 8:37:47 PM

^ I agree. I've never seen server software coded in java that was worth a shit. The limited scalability and extreme resource usage is caused by that fact (memory leaks like crazy).

That being said most of the actual gameplay bugs don't have anything to do with the language; they're just sloppy coding. Notch is a "hacker/cowboy coder/other generic term." He gets shit done, but it has no coherence at all. Hopefully the new coders he hired will help with that some.

Java is a shitty platform for... a lot of things. But shitty code is shitty code regardless.

11/11/2010 9:05:46 PM

I was in the software dev biz for a long time... just saying a one-man dev crew trying to transition into a "real software company" is a a fantastically fucking hard process. Way harder than it was for one man to write what Minecraft is today. Hopefully they pull it off. And yes, LOL @ java... honestly I can't believe minecraft works at all.

11/11/2010 9:25:59 PM

^^I mostly agree, except that Java (and PHP, and VB) tend to attract programmers who lack the knowledge of deeper software development theory (aka memory management, processor management, network management) that interpreted languages hide away from the developer.

It doesn't mean good developers don't use these languages, just that there's a ton of shit to wade through to find the diamonds.

The reverse problem tends to happen in unmanaged languages (C, assembly, et al). Code tends to be brilliantly efficient, but a fucking nightmare to comprehend and manage in the long term.

11/11/2010 9:36:33 PM

I still have a lot of faith that once his team is up and running at capacity in their new headquarters purchased with all his blood diamond money that we'll start to see something pretty awesome.

...and he'll make bank any way you put it.

11/11/2010 9:44:26 PM

I just hope they rewrite the game. They can license a graphics and physics engine, and just focus on the gameplay. Porting this thing to the Unreal engine would take a weekend.

11/11/2010 9:46:21 PM

To be honest I don't see a huge need to rewrite the client. They could just port the server to something more stable and be fine.

11/11/2010 10:04:58 PM

Servers up.

11/11/2010 10:58:17 PM

dur, I gave u the wrong username for whitelist- it's: jmbrantl

sorry about that

11/11/2010 11:29:56 PM

Quote :

"It doesn't mean good developers don't use these languages, just that there's a ton of shit to wade through to find the diamonds. "

literally a ton of shit to wade through to find the diamonds. hehe.

11/12/2010 9:35:37 AM

nothing wrong with writing stuff in java. it works great and is easily scalable. Notch's problem is he made some retarded architecture decisions. Porting it to another language wouldn't change anything.

11/12/2010 10:06:06 AM

^Java is great for some things.



Show me a stable game server coded in Java and I'll agree that there's nothing wrong with it. FPS, RPG, etc. Something that requires a little power behind it.

11/12/2010 10:24:41 AM

Show me a game server in any language thats stable.

The only things I can think of are written by or based off something written by Carmack so they dont count.

[Edited on November 12, 2010 at 10:29 AM. Reason : f]

11/12/2010 10:29:37 AM

Leaked MMO Official clients, HLDS, UT Engine, id games(right about that), DICE games (servers are stable even if the games are buggy as shit)


From my experience most SERVER code done in C based languages are stable as shit. Every Java based server I've seen either has severe memory/resource issues, or terrible netcode. I've sort of gotten the feeling that Java just doesn't work well with networking related applications. It may just be shitty code, but if that's the case then there are a LOT of shitty coders making server packages in Java.

11/12/2010 11:02:34 AM

probably the latter

11/12/2010 11:21:06 AM

DICE servers are horrible shit piles and the netcode is the worst next to EVE (lol python).

WoW has about the only stable mmo servers and thats because they've gone through many years of dealing with stability problems. And even after that if the new expac doesnt crash the servers it would be amazing. Also its blizzard and they have more money than god to throw at the problem.

UT may have been good but modern unreal engine servers have huge memory and cpu requirements.

Half life (original) was quake engine. Source was buggy for a long time (and is probably hugely influenced by quake).

So basically if you're a big company with lots of resources (blizzard or valve) or you're carmack you can probably eventually produce a working engine regardless of language. If you're someone else its probably gonna be crap regardless of language.

Java works well and is very easily ported from platform to platform and very easily scalable, as long as you conform to certain java standards.

But you're right that because Java is a much easier language to get started with and to maintain, its much more popular for newer coders. Newer coders who are much more likely to make mistakes in picking data structures or memory/connection leaks. If they went with C they'd either make the same mistakes or just give up on the language.

[Edited on November 12, 2010 at 11:50 AM. Reason : e]

11/12/2010 11:47:07 AM

Quote :

"Newer coders who are much more likely to make mistakes in picking data structures or memory/connection leaks. If they went with C they'd either make the same mistakes or just give up on the language. "

This.

11/12/2010 6:47:59 PM

I put some cobblestone tools in the Welcome Center's "Free Tools" chest for anyone just getting started.

11/13/2010 11:15:02 AM

let's update the global "google" map and set up a system of doing it periodically

11/13/2010 1:10:00 PM

i finally was able to get on the server last night, just sort of walked around to see what was what and came across a giant forrest fire.

11/13/2010 2:50:32 PM

^^ I'm planning on doing this, probably going to have it update hourly. I've got to regenerate the whole map with the new textures (gray grass makes me sad), and set up the incremental scripts.

This will be done soon, but not tonight. Tonight; I drink.

11/13/2010 4:41:26 PM

Game is trash. Notch is just polishing a turd at this point. He'd better cash those checks while he can. There are lots of good clone projects in development that don't lag and leak memory.

[Edited on November 13, 2010 at 11:59 PM. Reason : lol java]

11/13/2010 11:59:06 PM

^Cubelands!

11/14/2010 12:21:58 AM

^Dammit, why doesn't Minecraft look like that game instead of something that came out in 1995?

11/14/2010 12:53:02 AM

hey saturnine. game has been screwy as hell the last half day or so for me. I think its because i made a boat. game bugged out then, and I never could destroy the thing. Any chance you can look to see if there are any boats around the map and kill them off?


thx

11/14/2010 6:56:35 AM

Just to confirm. We had decided to put the subway directly beneath the road? So the road lightblocks light the subway as well? Also so the subway can be above and below ground depending on where the road is?

11/14/2010 12:23:41 PM

If you dig down 10 blocks from "road level" that will be equal to the depth of the Subway Station.

11/14/2010 3:09:18 PM

Or you guys can just go to spawn where we already have the subway station and the size marked off and start from there.


Ugh, and Noen you weren't supposed to be making boats. The game being sucky lately is not from boats on our server though (you're probably the only one to even use on right now), read some of what we've talked about in this thread with the new update.

11/14/2010 3:24:39 PM

oh ive been reading all over the place. at this point I think maybe my problems are a shitty netgear router

11/14/2010 3:41:24 PM

fuck it. I'll try again next time notch updates.

After 4 hours of trying to figure out what the fuck is going on, I am 100% sure it's a server problem. I can login twice from the same pc, see myself moving around, and yet each client disconnects for different reasons at completely different points.

Different network cards, different computers, different connection types, same result. I'll try at work maybe, just to triple check.

11/14/2010 6:54:03 PM

We can't start from the spawn area because of the no-build restrictions.

11/14/2010 6:58:48 PM

i followed the steps in this post and it solved all my socket connection errors. don't know if it will work for other NICs.

http://forums.redstonewire.com/viewtopic.php?f=1013&t=34648&sid=eb3f1b579482f1a95db42b51e3d2bb5b&start=90#p623804

11/14/2010 7:29:36 PM

^^Yeah. So we have a couple options:

1. start at the level of the subway station near the spawn and be however many blocks below the road that is or

2. go directly beneath the road so the light-rocks can light the subway and the subway will be above ground rail across the bridges etc.

11/14/2010 8:55:35 PM

^^^ Not saying that it isn't the server, but I'm skeptical. I would think that everyone would be having the same issue if it was the server. It COULD be bad routing to the server, but I don't think there are any configuration issues with the server itself. If you want to work with me to verify that we can.

^^Socket connection errors might be the least of your issues on this server if some of what I've heard is true.

^Go with option #2, just limit the above ground sections to high over water bridges and valleys. Anywhere where boxing under the road down to the ground looks fine we will probably stick with that model. That way we end up with a cool variety: subway, bridges, above-ground tunnels, and underwater glass tunnels, depending.


One more note: hoffmaster; that road is getting extended at some point, so you may want to move your entryway.

11/15/2010 1:42:34 AM

There sure is a lot of hate for Java in this thread

and not a lot of "hey, lets ACTUALLY rewrite it on the Unreal engine, so we, too, can be millionaires overnight"

11/15/2010 1:52:03 AM