Gun nuts will try to make it a thing, but its not a big deal.

12/25/2012 8:06:54 PM

^what do you mean not a big deal? if you are anti-gun then you should think he should be fired and arrested right?



http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/12/25/D-C-Police-Investigating-NBC-s-Gregory-For-Violations-of-Gun-Banning-Laws#disqus_thread

12/25/2012 8:14:28 PM

Someone call the cops

12/25/2012 9:10:58 PM

I look forward to Friday's NRA press conference where they say that firefighters all need to wear body armor and have someone literally riding shotgun

[Edited on December 25, 2012 at 9:22 PM. Reason : ,.]

12/25/2012 9:21:52 PM

Quote :

"Making murder and arson illegal seems to be pointless as well."

Making these illegal makes sense. No matter what TOOL you use to commit the crime, it's the same crime.

Guns are just a tool.

12/25/2012 9:22:36 PM

Does apply for non-crimes as well?

If cops can observe us by driving around in cars, or using unmanned drones, does the TOOL matter?

12/25/2012 10:31:29 PM

Quote :

"^what do you mean not a big deal? if you are anti-gun then you should think he should be fired and arrested right? http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/12/25/D-C-Police-Investigating-NBC-s-Gregory-For-Violations-of-Gun-Banning-Laws#disqus_thread"

God, the planet that Breitbart posters live on must be one hell of a place.

12/25/2012 11:37:24 PM

^^ i'd say no, it does not matter. as long as that unmanned drone isn't looking INSIDE my private property, it's no different than a cop sitting out in the street parked in a car staring at my house, which is perfectly legal.

12/25/2012 11:54:32 PM

Should anything be banned if its just the tool to a crime?

12/25/2012 11:59:16 PM

i don't see how banning "tools" solves any problems. from what i understand, all research in fact points to the contrary, most relevant to this discussion being gun laws.

12/26/2012 12:16:47 AM

So then there are no weapons that should be banned because anything bad you could do with them is already illegal? And I guess no drugs should be banned? Drug paraphernalia is definitely okay. Since murder is already illegal that also pretty much kills our war on terror, and any kind of preemptive action for anything really.

12/26/2012 7:05:28 AM

Can someone repost the link to the study that showed mental health issues occurring at a lower rate per capita in the UK and Japan. I wanted to show my dad yesterday but couldn't find it.

12/26/2012 8:10:20 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G6tcDRMjTo

this guy's a teacher... just listen...

12/26/2012 8:28:10 AM

ZOMG! Ban cars!

http://www.sfgate.com/news/world/article/Chinese-man-drives-car-into-students-injuring-13-4144574.php

12/26/2012 8:39:48 AM

Quote :

"Wake up, it's the whole world man. It's not the 1800s anymore, you don't really need a gun, that's why most civilized countries don't allow that much of them."

lol do i need one in day to day life as an engineer... nope... do some people... farmers etc.... yep... unless they want to call animal control every time a coyote, wolf etc. gets on the farm
or maybe they just haven't upgraded to pneumatics to kill their animals because obviously lethal injection doesn't work when you plan on eating the meat.

Quote :

"We're not talking about just spree killings, limiting firearms to breech loading rifles and shotguns, it could have a much larger impact than just that. And car accidents happen at twice the rate of any kind of death due to violence, so not really a fair comparison."

ok, last year 10,800 people died in JUST dwi related car accidents.... 11,493 were shot... TOTAL. And most of those could have been shot with a single shot weapon or stabbed... or poisoned or blown up or shot during another crime... I really think by banning "assault rifles" you'll legitimately reduce that number by less than 1%.

& ohh shit... so you're going to outlaw muzzle loaders? cause last i checked my semi auto guns breech load too... just on their own.

See, you're so incompetent when it comes to guns you don't even know what you're saying really... ALL but one of my guns Breech load... the one that doesn't looks like this.



Just admit that you are afraid of guns and don't want other people to have them because
1. you feel like you might do something to get yourself shot someday.
2. you do not trust yourself with them so do not believe anyone else should have them.
3. you don't know anything about them at all and are just making un-informed jibber-jabber on the interwebs.


[Edited on December 26, 2012 at 9:15 AM. Reason : .]

12/26/2012 9:07:34 AM

Why would I want other people to have things that can kill me?

12/26/2012 10:00:03 AM

Do you live in a bunker? There there are millions of opportunities every day for you to die. A lot of those are from other people.

12/26/2012 10:12:10 AM

Quote :

"That's a good question."

Then answer it.

Quote :

"Insanity traditionally has to do with societal mores. So by the definition of their times, since the slaves were not considered human, I would have to say no."

Doesn't that same arguement apply to the people of the middle east, who have different mores, or people in war, etc? Isn't this the very point I've been trying to prove.

Quote :

"I would argue the opposite, that very few murders are committed by sane people."

It's clear that the american legal system doesn't agree considering that most murderers are found sane. I don't know why you're even making this arguement, it's silly. Most murders are committed by people who know exactly what they are doing, live entirely within reality, and understand the consequence of their actions, they are sane.

Quote :

"The problem is, the crimes that make the nation stop are statistically insignificant compared to all the other crimes, that's why they make us stop."

Well whether you like it or not, those are the crimes that will bring about the change. They force the conversation upon us.

Quote :

"Finally, do you suspect that governments today are inherently more trustworthy with a monopoly on force than governments of old?"

They are forced to be. They can't get away with as much. Knowledge truly is power, and it holds governments in check way more than a few nuts with some handguns.

Quote :

"So other than the fact that your government (who by the way is no stranger to killing) says you don't need guns (even as they themselves continue to arm) why do you think you don't at the very least have a legitimate right to them?"

I own a shotgun. I use it for shooting skeets. I also recognize that I need it about as much as I need my golf clubs. All these problems you bring up have not been issues for the rest of the civilized world, which has had reasonable gun control for over 30 years.

Quote :

"Guns are just a tool."

So are nuclear weapons.

Quote :

"cause last i checked my semi auto guns breech load too... just on their own"

It seems you were are the only one in this thread stupid enough to not know what I was talking about.

Quote :

"Just admit that you are afraid of guns and don't want other people to have them because 1. you feel like you might do something to get yourself shot someday. 2. you do not trust yourself with them so do not believe anyone else should have them. 3. you don't know anything about them at all and are just making un-informed jibber-jabber on the interwebs."

I own a shotgun. It's an old Mossberg 500.

Why don't you admit that you think that you know everything on the subject and that your pretentiousness prevents you from allowing anyone who has a different opinion than you to have any knowledge on the subject.

[Edited on December 26, 2012 at 10:23 AM. Reason : ]

12/26/2012 10:21:39 AM

not pretentious at all congrats on your mossberg 500...



DEATH DEALER!! lol .....


Dude i'm not pretentious at all i just think your opinion is completely worthless and un informed... i don't think it has anything to do with the current political or social climate.

And if you ever look in the gun thread i don't know shit about a lot of guns... i've been fucking around for about 6 months trying to get either an FAL derivative or a M1a and now... good luck with that.. (that's why i'm a little pissed) And i don't know SHIT about shotguns.... the only reason i've considered getting one is for 3 gun competitions. I like precision shooting so blasting a cloud of 8 to 600 projectiles in the air just isn't really my thing and i don't know anything about any model shotgun... except they all load from the breech. (rimmed cartridges have a difficult time going down the muzzle) From siaga 12s to your mossberg pump or a berretta double barrel.

12/26/2012 10:35:06 AM

not pretentious at all congrats on your mossberg 500...



DEATH DEALER!! lol .....


Dude i'm not pretentious at all i just think your opinion is completely worthless and un informed... i don't think it has anything to do with the current political or social climate.

And if you ever look in the gun thread i don't know shit about a lot of guns... i've been fucking around for about 6 months trying to get either an FAL derivative or a M1a and now... good luck with that.. (that's why i'm a little pissed) And i don't know SHIT about shotguns.... the only reason i've considered getting one is for 3 gun competitions. I like precision shooting so blasting a cloud of 8 to 600 projectiles in the air just isn't really my thing and i don't know anything about any model shotgun... except they all load from the breech. (rimmed cartridges have a difficult time going down the muzzle) From siaga 12s to your mossberg pump or a berretta double barrel.

12/26/2012 10:35:06 AM

Quote :

"Dude i'm not pretentious at all i just think your opinion is completely worthless and un informed..."

Sure you are, you think you know everything about firearms because you look at them on the internet any of the time your not loading snap caps through the ones you have. This of course precludes me from having any reasonable opinion that is different from yours.

12/26/2012 10:47:24 AM

lol nope...


look at cars most of the time....

and i doooooo know more about them then most people...

but then i do have 5 and do most of my own maintenance

12/26/2012 11:42:47 AM

Quote :

"William Spengler, 62, used a Bushmaster semiautomatic rifle, the same kind of weapon used in the assault on Sandy Hook Elementary School, Webster Police Chief Gerald Pickering said."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/25/us/new-york-firefighter-shooting/index.html?hpt=us_c2

Don't know if this has been posted. (EVERY POST IN SB = TLDR)

12/26/2012 12:23:44 PM

http://m.gawker.com/5971218/newspaper-publishes-names-addresses-of-local-gun-permit-holders-some-people-have-a-problem-with-this

12/26/2012 2:01:06 PM

Quote :

"Can someone repost the link to the study that showed mental health issues occurring at a lower rate per capita in the UK and Japan. I wanted to show my dad yesterday but couldn't find it."

12/26/2012 5:25:53 PM

^^ i think that's wrong for the paper to do, but these types of comments are hilarious to me:

Quote :

" "Do you fools realize that you also made a map for criminals to use to find homes to rob that have no guns in them to protect themselves?" asked another. "

What if the criminals want to steal the guns, since that's how all criminals apparently get their weapons?? Seems like now they have a map of homes TO rob.

It's amusing the fantasy these people have that their guns will be their salvation.

12/26/2012 6:04:54 PM

Well now they just know which homes they have to ensure are empty before entering

12/26/2012 6:31:55 PM

BJ everyone leaves off the part that he was a convicted felon and by our current laws was not supposed to own a gun at all let alone an assault rifle.... which shows you how much good banning the sale of them would do.

again, people blaming a gun for being a good gun....

its like blaming a ferrari (or any supercar) for driving too fast and causing a fatal accident....

nope it was the careless reckless jackass behind the wheel/trigger that should be blamed.

[Edited on December 26, 2012 at 9:18 PM. Reason : .]

12/26/2012 9:17:27 PM

Gun control is like the war on drugs, EPIC FAILURE.

After the last few weeks I can say that the bushmaster is one hell of a gun, does exactly what it was designed to do. Now the assholes that own them are the problem. A gun ban will do nothing about the millions of guns already owned in America.

12/26/2012 10:53:13 PM

So AR-15 owners are "assholes" now?

12/26/2012 10:59:40 PM

I think he just means the ones that flip out and murder people.

12/26/2012 11:34:11 PM

Quote :

" Can someone repost the link to the study that showed mental health issues occurring at a lower rate per capita in the UK and Japan. I wanted to show my dad yesterday but couldn't find it."

12/27/2012 9:22:34 AM

Quote :

"BJ everyone leaves off the part that he was a convicted felon and by our current laws was not supposed to own a gun at all let alone an assault rifle.... which shows you how much good banning the sale of them would do."

Did he get the gun from someone who obtained it legally?

Tell me, how many Class 3 Destructive Devices have been used for mass murders in the US?

[Edited on December 27, 2012 at 9:37 AM. Reason : .]

12/27/2012 9:35:52 AM

not nearly as many as stolen guns with serials removed...


so you're going to stock pile the 10million + ar-15 and destroy them?
LOL not gonna happen... not without writing people about 10-20 billion dollars in checks.

[Edited on December 27, 2012 at 9:54 AM. Reason : .]

12/27/2012 9:49:40 AM

You're right. Because we can't do it overnight we shouldn't even get started.

12/27/2012 9:59:48 AM

Just to make sure that we're all clear, Bushmaster is a lower-end brand (not junk, but let's say it's like the Chevrolet of AR-15s). The only thing special about Bushmaster is that it is on the lower end of the price scale, but still a "name brand", so in the world of AR-15s, a significant chunk of them are made by Bushmaster...and a significant chunk of the pricer ARs are owned by gun-nut hobbyists, not criminals.

If we had an ongoing problem of people periodically running over crowds of people with their cars, singling out Bushmaster would be analogous to singling out Chevrolet.

(and singling out whatever we define as "assault weapons" would be kind of analogous to singling out 2-door sports cars that can accelerate through the 1/4 mile in the 13-second range or quicker). You'd just make those cars more expensive, and even if you succeeded in making them prohibitively expensive, people would just start running over crowds with F-350s instead.

12/27/2012 10:06:54 AM

"If I was to go people hunting, this would be my choice. Saiga 12 with a drum."

Gotta say if or the FBI will pop up

12/27/2012 10:18:17 AM

lol yeah


they're nasty i have a buddy with a similar setup... sans rails and gothic muzzle piece.

12/27/2012 10:22:47 AM

What annoys me about this discussion is people harping over the fact that the constitution is really old and the world has changed, and thus it is no longer relevant.

Yes, the bill of rights is old. And yes, the world is different now. Luckily the people who wrote the constitution anticipated such changes and built in a method to change the constitution if necessary.

So if people don't like the second ammendment they can change it, but you can't just ignore it.

12/27/2012 10:26:37 AM

^^

like this one?

12/27/2012 10:32:47 AM

Quote :

"So AR-15 owners are "assholes" now?"

I will say this
yes, anyone who owns an AR-15 or AK variant is an asshole.

(it has nothing to do with if those guns should be banned, just that they are assholes in the same way that anyone who wears an affliction shirt or deep-v t shirt is an asshole)

[Edited on December 27, 2012 at 10:44 AM. Reason : they're all bro's]

12/27/2012 10:43:55 AM

haha, no they aren't. 15 years ago, they were all hardcore gun nuts and/or tin-foil hat types, but the AR in particular has gone very mainstream now, in my view largely due to the '94 AWB.

(and I no longer own any variants of either platform, although I'm looking to buy a few AR lower receivers)

[Edited on December 27, 2012 at 10:52 AM. Reason : maybe 20 years ago]

12/27/2012 10:51:47 AM

Who could have predicted a gun control thread turning into a gun owner circlejerk where they showcase their knowledge and/or expertise of their fancy boomsticks that have never once been used for anything aside from play and fetishistic worship.

edit: Please, tell me us more about the AWB is misguided without offering a more well-guided alternative that doesn't include arming kindergarten teachers with M-1 Carbines.

[Edited on December 27, 2012 at 11:01 AM. Reason : .]

12/27/2012 10:54:51 AM

Is pretending to be Rambo "play" or "worship"? Because that's what I figure they're used the most for.

12/27/2012 10:59:21 AM

Bit of both. Rambo is the modern Mars, he allows men to indulge in homosexual fantasy by ostensibly negating affection into violence.

His insecurity in his own power makes him afraid of love-making, as it signifies an emotional submission, so instead he opts for dominance-play in the form of rape. His insecurity in his body is mitigated with the aid of the engorged, carbon-gray, artificial penis.

The shirtless man penetrates the other men with bullets instead of semen, but his feelings of power remain decidedly sexual in nature.

[Edited on December 27, 2012 at 11:08 AM. Reason : .]

12/27/2012 11:05:52 AM

Walmart sells a machete for $6. I bet a grown man can wack a entire kindergarden class with it.

12/27/2012 11:19:30 AM

^^^^ I bought my Saiga 12 very specifically as a home defense weapon. There was a rash of very brazen burglaries in the vicinity of a previous residence of mine. You are correct; I shot it very minimally, mostly just to break it in, confirm its reliability, and make sure I was familiar with its operation.


I posted 3 links previously that discuss the '94 AWB. A person capable of critical thought who is familiar with that piece of legislation shouldn't even need it explained why it was misguided, but if you want it explained, those 3 articles do so, and I don't feel like re-hashing it all again. Understand that the DoJ, CDC, and NRC all concluded that the '94 was completely ineffectual (and again, I credit it for making the AR mainstream, and increasing the number of them in circulation many times over).

As far as my solutions? There isn't a whole hell of a lot we can really do. It's not a matter of me being opposed to it; it's a matter of there just not being anything that would work. We could maybe require FFL transfer for all firearms transactions, but only if done in such a way that would not create the possibility for any sort of de facto gun registry. We could strengthen requirements for reporting things to the federal NICS system...things like mental illness, etc (although much of this is already done). I guess if you're going to ban further production of any physical item in particular, there is at least a modicum of logic behind banning further production of high-capacity magazines, although I really don't think that would do much good (you could just carry more mags, more guns, or pay $50 or whatever for pre-ban magazines instead of $14 for new ones like now).

I also think that we should liberalize conceal carry restrictions, to include allowing carry in schools, universities, and military bases. "Arming" of teachers in a compulsory or active sense is a bizarrely insane idea, but only the craziest of crazies are advocating that. Allowing CC in schools might be a distasteful idea, but all of the numbers are on my side on that one; if you want to argue against it, it will be an emotional argument in the face of fact. I totally agree that it wouldn't be anything approaching a magic bullet, but there aren't any of those, anyway. I think all of the numbers bear that it would be an incremental net increase in security. On the other side of this equation, I think that concealed carry permit training is woefully lacking. The numbers show a distinct lack of a problem here, but I'd feel a lot more comfortable if the legal, marksmanship, and weapons handling training for CCP was more stringent (particularly the latter 2).

Maybe there could be a gun owner's license of some sort, that would be needed for any purchase, private seller or not, but would not allow for any sort of firearms registry. It would show that you were entitled to own guns, but not whether you did or how many.





I think that a national gun confiscation would help. It would obviously put a significant dent in (though not eradicate) gun violence, and probably fatalities due to violence (though I suspect the overall rate of violent crime would remain the same or increase). The problem here, aside that it is very clearly unconstitutional and not even remotely politically viable, is that it would be absolutely impossible even if the Constitution were amended to make this law. They would never, ever find all 300-something million guns, and there would be widespread violent resistance. It is completely a moot point, and banning of any particular subset of guns will have little or no effect.

[Edited on December 27, 2012 at 11:34 AM. Reason : ^^ oh jesus fuck, give it a fucking rest]

[Edited on December 27, 2012 at 11:35 AM. Reason : plus, assault weapons aren't the problem. that's not what shitloads of people are killed by.]

12/27/2012 11:19:37 AM

Quote :

"I think that a national gun confiscation would help. It would obviously put a significant dent in (though not eradicate) gun violence, and probably fatalities due to violence (though I suspect the overall rate of violent crime would remain the same or increase). The problem here, aside that it is very clearly unconstitutional and not even remotely politically viable, is that it would be absolutely impossible even if the Constitution were amended to make this law. They would never, ever find all 300-something million guns, and there would be widespread violent resistance. It is completely a moot point, and banning of any particular subset of guns will have little or no effect."

which is why you do a massive voluntary buy-back instead

[Edited on December 27, 2012 at 12:13 PM. Reason : voluntary]

12/27/2012 12:12:41 PM

lol at the new proposed bill requiring all assault weapons be registered as NFA weapons. The ATF can't even handle the current demand, forget having to register all the ones out there. Let's also not forget how utterly worthless that would be, I am sure registration would prevent so many crimes like Sandy Hook

12/27/2012 12:22:18 PM

Quote :

"If we had an ongoing problem of people periodically running over crowds of people with their cars, singling out Bushmaster would be analogous to singling out Chevrolet."

Except for the obvious difference: Cars are not designed to efficiently kill. Guns are explicitly designed to kill. You can make the argument that any tool can be used to kill, but let's be honest, one item is specifically intended for slaughter (and frequently used for that cause), and the other is not.

The thing about any form of advanced weaponry is that it allows for the user to kill efficiently and with minimal effort. People make the knife argument, but it takes a committed person to kill someone with a knife. The truth is that guns allow for otherwise sane people to commit murder, while the act of stabbing someone requires a someone in a prolonged and distressed mental state. If you stab a man in the dead of winter, steam will rise up from the wounds. Indians believed it was his soul escaping from his body. I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: Why do they come to me to die?

Why do they come to me to die?

12/27/2012 12:45:27 PM