I've ridden in the back of a -4, and I've flown a -6.

The -7 and -8 cost too much more for not (in my opinion) enough more airplane.

I also prefer tandem...it's slightly faster, but mainly I like sitting on centerline, and most of all, most side-by-side setups (most -6 and -7) have a central throttle quadrant. Unless you prefer left-hand on the stick, I think that would suck. If I was going side-by-side, I think I'd consider saving some money and just getting a Sonex (less airplane for sure, but a good bit less money).


At any rate, if the Pitts thing works out, no RV will remotely hold a candle to that for aerobatics...and no RV is better than a Cub for inexpensively cruising the beach with the clamshells open or slipping it in low over the trees into a little grass field, or better than an Arrow for going places with friends.


I don't want an airplane for cost efficiency--I wouldn't fly enough to really justify that. I want one because it's very tough to rent cool shit. If an arrangement fell into place for renting a different airplane for ideally suited for all of my wants, that would be better than spending more money to have an 85% solution for everything.

RVs are awesome...but having a 260 hp Pitts, a Legend Cub, and an Arrow available would be a pretty uniquely great situation.
[Edited on October 26, 2016 at 11:30 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on October 26, 2016 at 11:31 PM. Reason : ]

10/26/2016 11:23:10 PM

Been flying a Super Decathlon a bunch and hoping to try out a Pitts soon. A guy at one of the airfields I frequent has a S1T and an S2B.

Going to look at a Mooney tomorrow after arguing about what to buy for 2 years I think my wife and I are on the same page. The only rational thing to do is get both a Pitts and a Mooney, so you don't skimp on the mission for aerobatics or going places.

We actually had that conversation. Having both people into flying means you make a lot of questionable decisions.

[Edited on July 19, 2017 at 2:03 AM. Reason : A]

7/19/2017 2:01:19 AM

there was a Super D for rent at my local airport, but it got smashed up a couple of weeks ago. Might be a total loss. The Legend Cub isn't repaired from when it was smashed up, either. The other Legend Cub was totaled when it got smashed up the 2nd time.



Luckily I found a Champ for rent close by.


My dream setup (for the attainable, foreseeable future) is shared ownership in something aerobatic, and shared ownership in something like a Cherokee Six.

7/20/2017 10:59:53 PM

Got some river sand bar landings in this weekend and a bad ass flight down Denali a glacier.

One of the rivers I got to fly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z6fKtAuUhU&feature=youtu.be

Haven't seen a Cherokee 6. Is that the model name?

This looks fun if you need a place to live: https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/1433087/1951-grumman-hu-16b

[Edited on August 9, 2017 at 1:09 AM. Reason : a]

8/9/2017 1:08:25 AM

Cherokee Six is the model name. It's a fixed gear Piper PA-32.

I see some 35-series Bonanzas have an optional 5th seat...that might be cool, too.



Also, I'm up in VA Beach for USMC Reserve duty...I went and got checked out in a 7KCAB Citabria today so I'll have something to fly (and do some aerobatics in) when I'm in town here.

8/9/2017 10:44:26 PM

I start training in the MQ-4C soon! I got a tour of the facility today. It's pretty interesting. As a pilot I'm so used to having everything onboard the airplane that when they told that there's a telephone in the room so I can call ATC if I lose link or UHF comms I was blown away.
It's also weird having to manage what box is talking to the airplane, and what the airplane will do if there isn't a box talking to it. Total mind warp, at 1g straight and level....

8/11/2017 5:50:15 PM

I don't know if I mentioned this on here, but I quit my engineering job and took a contractor position as a simulator operator/"pilot", teaching WSOs.

There has been some chatter about me applying to the Reserve unit attached to the squadron that we support. I'd still be in the simulator most of the time as a Reservist, but that would also get me back into a jet cockpit some.

8/12/2017 10:46:51 AM

The guys I know that do that in Corpus LOVE IT. Not only do you fly, but you get to stay current as a sim instructor as what exactly you're teaching the studs and what the squadrons want to see. Best of both worlds!
Who has your contract? L-3?

8/17/2017 5:57:08 PM

PM sent

8/21/2017 2:42:24 PM

Anyone have any good opportunities for new commercial pilots other CFI? Banner tow or fly jumpers?

Why'd you quit engineering?

Finally going to be an owner after looking for five years. Going to pick up my Mooney this week:

Took me making an offer on 4 of them before one stuck. Couple of sellers backed out after sending us contracts to sign and agreeing on a price.

8/21/2017 9:21:35 PM

short version: engineering gig was really far away. flight sim job is half the distance, and only part-time, but between the sim job and the Reserves, plus not paying AL state tax or the costs of commuting, it ought to be roughly financially a wash...but with me only working, say, 3.5 days per week. Plus the work is more fun (although the engineering job was pretty cool at times).

PM sent with a little more info.

[Edited on August 22, 2017 at 8:59 PM. Reason : about the same income, much less work & commute, more fun]

8/22/2017 8:51:20 PM

Flew a 1947 Aeronca Champ today.

Owner is gonna let me rent it for $70/hour (wet)! I just have to buy time in 15 hour blocks.

Hand-prop, no transponder, and only 65 hp. It makes a Legend Cub feel like a sports car, and a Citabria feel like a really serious sports car, haha. Fun to cruise around low and slow with the sliding window open, though.

[Edited on September 8, 2017 at 9:22 PM. Reason : ]

9/8/2017 9:20:29 PM

Any flying machine where the airspeed indicator is pegged low on final is too slow for me!! I got scared in a C152 a few years ago doing 65kts on final, and my buddy saying I was fast!

9/9/2017 1:20:26 PM

I fly the Champ 60 kts on final, then flare to a three point pitch attitude. Citabria and Legend Cub are the same, but about 65 kts. Any of these could be backed off probably 5 kts pretty comfortably into a really short field if need, I think, but I find it unnecessary. I also like wheel landings at 70 kts in the Legend Cub or occasionally Citabria. I've only done 2 wheelies in the Champ and don't care for it as much (doesn't have enough control authority, particularly with the elevator. I like to keep the tail flying until I'm REALLY slow, then plant it. That transition can get a little squirrelly, and I like for it to happen with really minimal energy on the airplane.)

9/12/2017 2:17:52 PM

Just got to fly a CAP-10B. Just a few laps around the pattern.

9/14/2017 7:56:56 PM

Had the Mooney for 2 months, def don't regret it yet. Brought it to it's new home in Santa Monica from TX in August. Some pics:






Dat fuel burn doe.




[Edited on October 12, 2017 at 1:24 PM. Reason : a]

10/12/2017 1:17:57 PM

What about the fuel burn? What does it have, a 360? What have you been flying primarily before the Mooney?


What are you estimating for your fixed and variable costs?

10/12/2017 6:45:19 PM

It has a IO360-a3b6, fuel burn is about 9.5 - 10.5 gph in cruise. We got 9.5 gph on the way back from TX and 160kts the whole way.

I flew nothing consistently in the last 100 hours: C172, C182RG, Super Decathlon, Citabria, Piper Arrow, Piper Cherokee, Piper Pacer (with Floats), Piper Pacer (with Bush tires). Probably 35 hours of the last 100 are tailwheel.

In my research, I have a large spreadsheet with a bunch of planes and numbers. It seems like you'd spend $9000 (RV6) - $20000 (Mooney Bravo or better) in fixed cost per year. I looked at RV6, RV7, C182, and Mooney M20K, M20J, and M20Ms seriously. For the money I settled on the M20J: Great fuel burn, fast enough to go half way across the country if you want to, decently low fixed costs ($12000). When my wife got into flying she all the sudden decided we were not getting an experimental

One thing that made buying a better option for me was my wife also flies. We'd spent about 1/3 the cost of the plane in flying costs in a few months earlier in the year. Both of us wanted our IFR and Commercial ratings so that was going to be enough to justify buying. For variable costs INCLUDING fixed it's probably $27K/200hrs and like $39K/350 hrs in a year. We've done about 50 hours already in the plane, so it's "saved" a lot in rentals. Also gave us an opportunity to transport our instructor around and in turn he gives us free instruction.



[Edited on October 12, 2017 at 8:16 PM. Reason : a]

10/12/2017 8:13:51 PM

I'd be interested in seeing your spreadsheet. How'd you source the information? That fuel flow should be very similar to a 172/Super Decathlon/etc...is it just that you're flying the Mooney for more hours and racking up huge fuel bills?

I'm getting fairly interested in buying an RV-4. Really, I'd be most interested in buying a share in an RV-4 (one partner, or multiple...whatever).

I had a series of financial disasters over the last 3 years, otherwise I would have already done it. I got out of the Marines and was unemployed for 4.5 months, living on savings and the leave I sold back when I got out...

Then, as soon as I got a job, my ex sued me again to squeeze me for more money. I took a scorched earth, cost-be-damned approach because I have fucking had it with her, so while she did get $5000 from me, I probably cost her double that to fight me and take it from me. I also got the child support amount reduced by over $3k/year going forward, haha. The downside is that I spent $11,000+ on my own lawyer for this round, and probably deliberately avoided $20,000 in overtime pay that I could have made if I hadn't religiously taken comp time every pay period to avoid making any more than my base salary.

Just as I was wrapping up the legal stuff, I got hired at an awesome new job back in May, only for a problem with the jets to cause my hours to be pretty sparse since the beginning of July, haha. There was even a 2 month stretch through Aug-Sep where I worked a total of 4 hours. Four. Hours...in 2 months.

I avoided debt, never had to tap any long-term savings, and continued to fund my retirement accounts fully, so that's a win, but all that (plus a frame-off restoration of an old pickup truck) utterly wiped out my beer money. Even if co-owning an airplane was break-even or advantageous from a cashflow perspective, there's no way I would feel comfortable owning something that could generate huge repair bills unexpectedly until I fatten my wallet back up and get a feel for what "normalcy" at this new job looks like, workload and income-wise.

It looks like a nice RV-4 can be had for about $40-45k. I'd most likely get one with a 160-hp 320 and a fixed prop. I'm figuring about $1000-1500/year for annual, $1000-1500/year for insurance. I think hangars are about $200-250/month here, and tie-downs are about $50. Fuel is $3.50/gal for 100LL here, so I figure roughly $50/hour operating costs, accounting for an engine reserve and a few bucks for a maintenance reserve.

Work has picked back up, and should remain busy for the foreseeable future to catch up from last spring/summer's near-standstill. Buying an airplane is still intimidating, though, you know? I'm about as cold and rational as they come, but even after crunching the numbers and knowing it should be within reach (and well-within reach in a shared-ownership arrangement), it's still, you know...buying a fuckin' airplane. I know in my head that's not really crazier than buying a boat, and plenty of pretty regular people do that, but it just feels like a bigger plunge!

10/13/2017 12:40:10 AM

On one hand, I have been waiting forfuckingever to buy an airplane, and for various reasons, it just has never made sense, and/or life has gotten in the way. I really, really want to do it now.

On the other, there's a 7AC Champ hangared 10 minutes from my house that I can rent for $70/hour (wet!), a Decathlon about 50 minutes away that I can rent for $200 (but dual only ), an Arrow 15 minutes away that I need to get checked out in, but should be about $120-125/hour. There's also a place near my Reserve job in VA where, a few times per year when I'm up there, I can solo rent a 7KCAB Citabria or a Great Lakes (with parachutes, for either!) for $139 or ~$180, respectively, and a pair of dual-only Extra 300s (unknown $. Expensive.). There's also a CAP-10B that's about to be dual-only in VA (~$180, and nice, late-model Super Decathlon that might be dual-only again for ~$230 here locally if the FBO decides to keep it once it's repaired from my buddy flipping it on its back.

That allows me to fly for dirt cheap, conveniently, and stay tailwheel proficient (Champ), travel moderate distances for not TOO expensive (Arrow), and fly some aerobatics once every few months both in FL and VA (Citabria, Decathon, Great Lakes).

I don't think that will ever stifle my want to buy my own bird, but they're good options that make it so that I feel less hurried. I am fortunate and have some neat stuff available to fly; it's not like I'm relegated just to 172s and Cherokees in the local rental fleet.








My daughter and I made a Bojangle's run to Enterprise, AL the other day.

2nd pic is her flying. I have to handle the rudder pedals, though...she can't really comfortably reach them.

[Edited on October 13, 2017 at 1:04 AM. Reason : ]

10/13/2017 1:00:03 AM

I have some good memories of flying with my dad when he would let me take the controls of the Baron or King Air. I also could not comfortably reach the pedals. Good stuff.

10/13/2017 7:38:47 AM

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11XCgqOd23r7-ITtiMCpaFnNfe3_PTochw_lVgyYL6-I/edit?usp=sharing

Our Super D is about the same cost--I think we pay $220. Rentals on everything else for us were way more, in the $180/hr range even for Cherokee's or a C172.

RV4 is the best way to go for cost. A friend got a non-IFR one for about $25K. He's put 400 hours in it in 5-6 years. Another way to go if you like just Aerobatics would be a single seater Pitts. I've seen a couple around online for $20k.

An Extra costs about $2 mil in net worth. A guy on our field just took second in the national comp. He's got an amazing hangar and fleet and trained every day for 2 years.

10/13/2017 8:54:44 AM

Yeah single-seat Pitts would be cool, but it’s a one-trick pony. I want the versatility of something like an RV, plus 2 seats. I also don’t want anything as high-strung and ornery as a Pitts.

25k is silly cheap for a -4! I see very basic and/or high time ones in the low-mid 30s...I’m figuring on abkut 40k for a decently nice one. Maybe I’ll get lucky and beat that.

___

That’s exactly the thing—I have some relatively cool stuff available for pretty reasonable rates. It makes the case for buying a little less immediately compelling.

10/13/2017 11:06:24 AM

An acquaintance (USAF B-52 pilot and T-6 instructor) just sold his Pitts S-2C. He can't fly hard aerobatics anymore due to his screwed up back. He replaced it with a 7AC Aeronca Champ, just to cruise around low and slow with the window open, fly into little grass strips, etc.

To make a long story short, once he gets a couple of post-purchase repairs made, I think he's gonna put me on his insurance and let me fly it for the cost of gas (which is almost nothing--4 gph), provided I split his hangar rent and maybe a few insurance bucks. He's probably about to move in a few months, and wants someone to keep his bird flying regularly until his name comes up on the waitlist at the airport near his new place.

[Edited on November 8, 2017 at 9:59 PM. Reason : So...prob on order of ~$175-200/month (my share) and $15-20/hour for fuel, haha.]

11/8/2017 9:57:46 PM

Passed my NATOPS Check this week in[?] this machine!

11/9/2017 6:52:16 PM

Just got a G5 installed and had them look at the seat, which had been coming loose when doing my pedal checks. Turns out I need some parts for the seat, then the pitot static check for the G5 revealed I need a VSI overhaul.

11/14/2017 4:59:11 PM

11/17/2017 9:07:06 PM

Dammit Duke, I told you to knock that shit off last week...drawing dicks in the sky n shit

11/17/2017 11:37:13 PM

Is it likely that this dude was drawing a dick on his moving map display and didn't realize his exhaust was staying around as sky writing? I keep wanting to think so, but that seems kinda hard to believe given the altitude and aspect involved.

11/19/2017 5:29:08 PM

11/23/2017 5:41:26 PM

That's gorgeous!

11/25/2017 8:19:30 AM

Here's another good one:

12/2/2017 3:28:18 PM

I am fucking sick of instrument flying. May not just burn my foggles, but all the instruments in the plane after this is over.

1/10/2018 7:08:27 PM

you getting an instrument rating or what?

I want to get mine. I mean, I know instrument flying; hell, I teach it (among other things) at my new job. I just need to go get the rating.

and yeah, using it to penetrate a layer is one thing. Flying for extended periods in the goo? No thanks. I don't really foresee myself using it for that.

1/10/2018 11:51:04 PM

Yeah, my wife got hers last week. Our checkrides were scheduled early December and we got the oral over then but the fires and wind stopped the actual ride. Now I'm a bit rusty so I'm having to freshen up before I take it. Currently tomorrow morning.

1/11/2018 9:14:57 AM

As much as it sucks, getting good at instrument flying really does make you a better pilot. I'm convinced it speeds up your scan and teaches you to trim really minute corrections. Just my $.02

But, yea... flying sustained time in the goo sucks!

[Edited on January 11, 2018 at 7:24 PM. Reason : an =/ at]

1/11/2018 7:24:13 PM

I passed. Almost fucked up the hold because I got a bunch of traffic alerts and an altitude change as I was turning inbound. All in all not too bad. Pretty glad it's over.

Anyone got commercial and/or cfi and ATP?

1/12/2018 3:29:56 PM

Congrats man! Welcome to the world of GPS direct!

1/12/2018 10:21:28 PM

1/14/2018 10:42:23 PM

Just flew a co-worker’s 35-series Bonanza. Man, what a sweet ride.

He wants to sell his 1/3 share. I think I could probably get it for $10k. (!!!) it would be close to $300/month in fixed costs, $90/hr into the LLC, plus fuel, though. That’s why he’s selling-partners decided to up the rate from $60 to $90.

3/31/2018 2:28:22 PM

Def do that, seems like a sweet deal. If I could afford the operating and maintenance with two people I'd do that. I joke that you can carry a Mooney in the back seat of that plane.

3/31/2018 2:34:41 PM

Man, it's a hell of a deal if you want a nice Bonanza and will use it, and don't have other good alternatives. It has a fairly low-time 285 hp IO-520, small EFIS, nice engine management, Garmin 430 with WAAS for precision RNAV approaches and the nice Garmin radio hardware tied into the 430...another King radio, ILS, VOR, etc.

On the other hand, while it's a sweet ride, it isn't as much fun for just flying around as an RV-4, and it's not really faster, and is much more expensive--it would total up to about $175/hour, plus nearly $300/month fixed.

If I want to fly with more than 1 passenger and/or carry stuff, there's an Arrow II here that I can rent for ~$130/hr, wet. That's a great deal, and it has no fixed costs, no initial buy-in, and no being on the hook for maintenance, etc. There's another one at a different FBO for $165/wet, too. I haven't flown an Arrow, but I assume it's like a faster Cherokee, which is to say, it sucks compared to a Bonanza...but as sweet of a ride as the Bo is, and as screaming of a deal as that 1/3 share is, I think that owning an RV-4 and renting the Arrow is a better plan.

I might give some thought to buying the 1/3 share of the Bonanza if it's still for sale in a few months when I sell my racecar, if I can get it for $10k from my co-worker, and if he doesn't want to go in halves on an RV with me. Then I could just fly it for 6 months or something, building hi-perf/complex time and taking a few trips, then sell my share for a profit.

4/1/2018 10:43:38 PM

Got checked out in that Arrow today.

Flew the Champ over my daughter's school playground while she was at recess the other day. haha

4/13/2018 10:24:18 PM

Does that make you a helicopter dad?

4/14/2018 1:31:44 AM

haha, i don't think so.

i made one pass overhead, wrapped it up hard in a turn and came back over the opposite direction to make sure she saw me, then left.

4/14/2018 9:23:48 AM

I have made 14 flights in the last 30 days, all in either a 7AC Champ or a Legend Cub. It would have been 1-2 more, but the Arrow is down for an engine overhaul and annual.

6/19/2018 12:52:25 AM

We had a sudden oil pressure loss on a flight to Half Moon Bay, the pressure was dropping noticeably on the flight then as we began our descent it went from ok to critical in a matter of minutes.

Happened at the best possible time: over mountains with no outs. Looks like we are going to need two new cylinders. Better than a full overhaul I guess.

6/19/2018 7:15:42 AM

Or funerals.

6/20/2018 1:54:42 AM

Starting to talk semi-seriously about buying an RV with a dude from work. He's a retired USMC LtCol, with about 5500 hours (mostly Huey and T-34C). He's in the middle of getting his tailwheel endorsement and in the process of selling his share in a Bonanza.

I'm thinking RV-4, although I'd entertain the idea of a 6, 7, or 8...although I'd probably insist on a 3rd partner for a 7 or 8, just to keep the expense down.

7/5/2018 1:41:15 AM

Couple of flights in the 7AC Champ this morning, to a breakfash/lunch at another local airport...then drove to another field and got my first 2 glider lessons in a Grob 103.

Also talking with the glider club (which I joined) about getting checked out in their Pawnee (has 260 and CS prop...oughta really pull). They sound like they're all about it. I won't get paid, but I can fly on their dime. Might even get some free glider tows out of the deal...I'm gonna look into that.



down low skirting the edge of the bay this morning in the Champ.

7/7/2018 11:48:02 PM