We were an 8 seed. Id hardly say that we pissed away a great shot at the final 4. We had a chance. But UL is pretty good. Our season's body of work kinda speaks for itself in that we were an up and down team, and while we're talented I don't think it's fair to say that we were loaded or some kinda shoe-in for the final 4. The door was open, but UL is talented and was consistently better than us most the season.

3/28/2015 11:14:25 AM

We weren't a shoe-in for a FF by any means but damn, the path to the FF (or at least E8) couldn't have been easier for us. It was a draw that doesn't happen often. That's why it was a missed opportunity.

3/28/2015 11:30:26 AM

Sure it was a missed opportunity. But I guess I was just trying to put it in perspective...that we had a better than expected season and went deeper than most reasonable people expected in the NCAAT.

3/28/2015 11:41:50 AM

Quote :

"that we had a better than expected season and went deeper than most reasonable people expected in the NCAAT."

Yup. It's just a matter if people wish to focus on that positive reality instead of some sort of concocted negative.

3/28/2015 11:50:58 AM

concocted negative?

it's totally reasonable to be both appreciative and critical at the same time

Kenny Smith absolutely nailed it during halftime last night. we have both the talent and the right pieces that fit, which makes the WTF moments that much harder to take.

I'm damn proud of where this team ended up, I just wish they wouldn't make their road so tough at times. I don't think that's too much to ask.

3/28/2015 12:09:04 PM

Quote :

" which makes the WTF moments that much harder to take. "

Since the subject at hand is last night, I think we can all agree that last night was not a WTF moment.

Quote :

"it's totally reasonable to be both appreciative and critical at the same time"

For sure, but that's not the type of post I was responding to, or referring to.

Quote :

"the path to the FF (or at least E8) couldn't have been easier for us."

"Couldn't be easier" = having to go through Rick Pitino and Tom Izzo??

3/28/2015 12:14:33 PM

for page 142

Quote :

"skokiaan is an idiot"

3/28/2015 12:16:43 PM

We let them shoot 50% which had to be their season high. We let a scrub go off. That was a wtf defensive game.

3/28/2015 12:20:41 PM

^^^ Couldn't be easier in the sense that our path included a team we beat on the road and a team other than Virginia, yeah.

[Edited on March 28, 2015 at 12:29 PM. Reason : ...]

3/28/2015 12:28:52 PM

Quote :

"Since the subject at hand is last night, I think we can all agree that last night was not a WTF moment."

that was a game that we absolutely should have won

they did to us what we did to Villanova

3/28/2015 12:32:58 PM

Couldn't be easier in that .... we were going to have to go through 2 coaches that are a combinded 28-2 in the sweet sixteen ................................................................





we played decent to well, they played better. It's in no way a game we -should- win... just like if we played Duke again it wouldn't be a game we -should- win because we beat them earlier in the season. We we -could- win the game definitely, but should is ridiculous.

Anton gill scored 7 points and took 3 shots ... I'm not sure where this "a nobody went off" thing came from ... he took ... THREE shots. Kyle Washington scored 4 more points in 2 less minutes, I don't hear the media taking about how he had Louisville by the balls.

He's not a nobody either, he plays basketball for Louisville he's obviously not a starter for the Pennsylvania school for the blind junior varsity team. Their starters are just good.

3/28/2015 12:33:39 PM

Always nice to see the sensible people knew that it was Final Four or bust this season

3/28/2015 12:34:47 PM

^^ By all means, tell me which bracket would've been easier for us. Yes we had Pitino and Izzo but that was by far the easiest path we will see in a loooong time.

[Edited on March 28, 2015 at 12:40 PM. Reason : ...]

3/28/2015 12:38:15 PM

rozier and cat are equal in talent. remember louisville was going after cat hard for a while.

we dont have a harrell but they dont have a lacey. the rest of their roster is trash. they have no one who can shoot. we absolutely had equal talent. but one game isn't a referendum. if we fuck up next year like we fucked up 2013 then it's time to melt down.

3/28/2015 12:40:48 PM

Thats not a very good argUment. It was only easy after we knocked the #2team in the country out of it.

3/28/2015 12:41:16 PM

NCAAT is a cluster with all the match ups and anything could happen. I just want a consistent, ranked-in-the-top-25-throughout regular season.

3/28/2015 12:44:10 PM

We knocked out the weakest 1 seed by far. Again highlighting why this was such a missed opportunity for us.

3/28/2015 12:44:38 PM

even if nova was 4th. Typically, if you can get a decent seed and beat a team that good, you will have an even easier path to the final 4. Its silly to say our path was easy after we did the heavy lifting to make it easy.

3/28/2015 12:49:27 PM

sadly I agree with E man ....

3/28/2015 12:51:15 PM

once you get a good opportunity it's important to capitalize on it. ask TOB how losing to maryland with an acc championship game on the line went for him.

[Edited on March 28, 2015 at 12:55 PM. Reason : game not the chip]

3/28/2015 12:55:07 PM

Quote :

"rozier and cat are equal in talent. "

Rozier is a better defender, better ball-handler, better athlete, and just better decision-maker overall. He's one of the few players in the country who can match Cat's speed and quickness. They both shoot it about the same.

I love Cat, but they're not equal in terms of talent -- at least not at this point in their careers. That's why one is projected to be a lottery pick and the other a 2nd rounder (next year). And FWIW, Rozier was ranked higher coming out of high school



[Edited on March 28, 2015 at 1:02 PM. Reason : plus, you know, cat was sick and all]

3/28/2015 12:58:49 PM

Easy to stay quiet when we're doing well, then run y'alls mouths when we lose.

We weren't 100% healthy. Cat is our catalyst and he was the one that wasn't healthy. He also isn't as effective when up against a zone defense.

How do you beat a zone defense? Hitting perimeter shots. We weren't hitting them. Our shot selection is a little suspect sometimes, but it always has been.

We should have drove the lane, created contact, drew fouls.
Seemed like you had to be mugged to draw a foul last night, on both sides. If they're not going to blow the whistle on the contact, then it's silly to keep trying this strategy.

We should have moved more on offense
Don't disagree there, and neither did Gott. He even said it at halftime that the guys weren't moving. Just because they may not be listening in the heat of the moment doesn't mean he's not trying to coach. Certainly the Sweet 16 is not the time to pull players and provide "teachable moments" to try and make a point.

Why didn't we play Washington more?
As good as he is on offense, he's just as much a liability on defense. Going tit-for-tat doesn't win games. You actually need stops while scoring buckets.

But what about our defense, what happened against a team that can't shoot?
For the most part, their guys stepped up. Snider played a better game than Barber. Rozier was everywhere. Harrell was a beast. They even got bench support from Gill.

They shot a great percentage because nearly every shot was from inside eight feet
I'll admit I would have tightened up our zone and dared them to make wide open jumpers consistently for a 3-5 minute stretch because we were getting manhandled on the interior. Credit to Harrell. You look at the box score, they shot 50% because Harrell was 9/12 and Gill was 3/3. Rozier shot 6/15, Snider was 5/13, Blackshear was 3/9. Harrell was playing out of his mind and none of our bigs could contain. Double-teams weren't helping because he could muscle through them anyway. Dude is going to be a 1st Rd pick and he showed why.

Coach Gott has a staff that can recruit and a system that has been proven to work against the best teams in the country. His teams have chemistry. He knows how to gameplan and he doesn't act like a taskmaster and lets the kids play and make their own mistakes. We'll start next season in the Top 25, make the dance again, and be seeded higher than 8th. We're not strapped to a rocket that'll take us straight to the top but we're still making positive progress. We haven't plateaued or peaked yet, and for that, he's credible.

3/28/2015 1:16:23 PM

Quote :

"we played decent to well, they played better. It's in no way a game we -should- win... just like if we played Duke again it wouldn't be a game we -should- win because we beat them earlier in the season. We we -could- win the game definitely, but should is ridiculous. "

we led at halftime and were up 8 in the 2nd half

not ridiculous to think that a team should win a game in which both of those things happened

3/28/2015 1:18:13 PM

We Gave them wide open jumpers AND deep position inside AND let them drive at will. We gave them everything and we still fouled them at a high rate. That game was a defensive failure on bc levels. I never want to see a 2 3 zone again. Why dont we let our bigs foul out instead of playing soft defense?

3/28/2015 1:35:14 PM

Honestly, with our athletes and length, we shouldn't be so terrible at running a zone or forcing turnovers. That's one place Gott and his staff have to improve. Our man-to-man was pretty good this year once Freeman started getting more minutes. But our zones were always average to awful.

As much as I didn't like Herb, the guy could coach a match-up zone defense. Never gonna happen, but I'd welcome him back on the staff just to implement a decent zone.

3/28/2015 1:41:58 PM

Quote :

"^^ By all means, tell me which bracket would've been easier for us. Yes we had Pitino and Izzo but that was by far the easiest path we will see in a loooong time."

Sure the opportunity was there for a deeper run. But i think we need to step back and realize that we're talking about an 8 seed making the FF. Aside from the LSU game we would have been underdogs in every single game up to the FF. It was an uphill climb to make the sweet 16, let alone FF. This team was inconsistent throughout the year. We hadn't proven that we could string together 4 consecutive games of elite level basketball to advance to the FF. So while the opportunity was the there, and the path was clearer than most would have predicted, I think it's misleading to say that we blew a chance at making the FF when a month or so ago we were firmly on the bubble and had to play our way into the tourney.

We can be critical of coaching, execution, whatever. But I don't think we should lose sight of the fact that we were a bubble team with only a couple weeks left in the year. We had some really bad losses and were inconsistent throughout the season. The run was fun while it lasted and we obviously had a legit shot to go further with how the game was looking with 6 mins left. But im pretty pleased with a sweet 16 appearance after losing the POY and barely making the NCAAT the year before

3/28/2015 2:02:41 PM

Quote :

"Rozier is a better defender, better ball-handler, better athlete, and just better decision-maker overall. He's one of the few players in the country who can match Cat's speed and quickness. They both shoot it about the same. I love Cat, but they're not equal in terms of talent -- at least not at this point in their careers. That's why one is projected to be a lottery pick and the other a 2nd rounder (next year). And FWIW, Rozier was ranked higher coming out of high school"

you think Rozier is a better defender because he plays for Rick Pitino and Cat plays for Gottfried.

ball handler? rozier doesnt turn the ball over but he doesnt get assists either so cat is a better passer if youre playing that game. i think cat has better handles tbh

better athlete, ok this one is fair. cat has good athleticism and great speed. rozier has great athleticism and length. FWIW, i think rozier is shorter than his listed height and that's going to hurt him in the nba.

shooting? cat is at 38% this year and rozier 31. over their career the numbers are pretty similar but usually you want the guy who is trending up. also cat is a way better finisher at the basket in traffic which is why i dont like rozier's nba potential. you dont get free lay ups from pressing in the league

where the hell are you seeing that rozier is a lottery pick? as far as high school goes, cat was RSCI 24 and rozier 76. it looks like scout jumped him to 15 after a post grad year but either way, that's not a huge difference

remember this guy is playing in the same system that made russ smith look like the best player in college basketball for 2 years

[Edited on March 28, 2015 at 2:16 PM. Reason : a]

3/28/2015 2:14:24 PM

Quote :

"I think it's misleading to say that we blew a chance at making the FF when a month or so ago we were firmly on the bubble and had to play our way into the tourney. "

3/28/2015 2:45:35 PM

but we were, in fact, in the tournament, with a very good shot at playing for a spot in the Final Four

3/28/2015 2:54:50 PM

We aren't talking about 'deserving' to be a final four team based on performance. Making the FF doesn't say you are a top 4 team. It just means you win 4 games. We are talking about winning the matchups that actually unfolded in the tourney.

We played low top-20 teams, a team we already beat, a soft #1 where we had superior talent, and a coach who is even inferior to ours.

Unless we get a #1 seed, it will never get easier than that. This nonsense about how we didn't deserve to win 4 games is some puritan self-hating rationalization bullshit.

3/28/2015 3:03:17 PM

Had we shown all year that we could string together 4 consecutive high level games? I mean, the opportunity was there. No argument from me on that. Us doing so would've been accomplishing a feat we hadn't done all year. It wouldve been a tall order. i understand your point. But we were the worst remaining team in the region. I guess we're just looking at it from different perspectives

3/28/2015 3:14:28 PM

well we wouldnt have need to string together 4 high level games because louisville also played like ass they just got a ton of open harrell dunks thanks to anya. also we played like shit against lsu

3/28/2015 3:31:23 PM

Is someone in this thread really trying to argue that Cat and Rozier equal??

3/28/2015 3:33:39 PM

We took that 8 point lead at the start of the second but then let Louisville right back in it, without pitino even having to call a timeout.

If we'd maintained that lead just like we did against Villanova, we could have got the W. Ugh, what ifs.

3/28/2015 3:35:18 PM

Somebody called it in the game thread

Quote :

""If we lose this place will be absolutely unbearable for months on end. (Not that it's that great now). RAWR RAWR GOTT BLEW A LEGIT SHOT AT A FINAL FOUR THAT COMES ONCE IN A LIFETIME RAWR RAWR WOE IS ME #NCSTATESHIT etc.""

3/28/2015 3:37:16 PM

The whole point of having a big money basketball program is to string together high-level wins.

By definition that means stringing together 6 in the tourney and most likely stringing together more than that in the regular season.

If it's some incredible feat for our team to string together 3+ wins, then we are far from where we need to be.

3/28/2015 3:44:53 PM

you guys are delusional to think a team that just got wiped out by bc and duke a few weeks ago was final 4 material. Losing to duke was ok in principal but not the way we did in a tournament game. You cant just base our potential off of our best games. We follow up great games with shit games all the time and even if we beat louisville the odds of being blown out by msu would have been even higher. Its who we are.

People tend to look at our good games and say wow we beat duke so we have the potential to play at a level higher than anyone but its a fallacy because those same people somehow disregard the same number of games where we give up 80 points and 20 point deficits to awful teams.

We have just as much potential to get blown out by shitty teams as we do to beat great teams. Thats not how you make the final 4.

3/28/2015 4:39:47 PM

Also let me be clear that gott is doing a good job. Winning a championship or making the final 4 are not job requirements. Some great coaches arent even doing that. His requirement is to make us relevant and put us in position to compete for those things which is what hes doing. Im fine with his overall results but lets not sugarcoat it. he aint winning no ships

3/28/2015 4:43:35 PM

Unlike years past I don't feel like this team fell short or failed to live up to it's potential. Yeah, they missed out on a realistic opportunity to reach the F4, but upsetting a #1 seed (still the only one to go down) on the way to the Sweet 16 is an accomplishment all by itself. Next year the stakes will be higher I think, especially if the only losses are graduates. The ACC overall will be weaker, but we should be better and should aim for a top 4 finish in the league.

As for the game yesterday, he got out coached to a certain degree, but we were leading before some dude who averaged 2.6ppg came in and ate our lunch. Our bigs couldn't handle Harrell and I thought we should have doubled him more aggressively to prevent him from posting up since their shooters mostly suck. Gotta hand it to Pitino, he went right at KW after he hit those shots and took him out of the game with 2 fouls. That was probably the biggest move of the game. Dude is for real, I think if he coached Duke/UNC caliber talent on a yearly basis he'd have more championships than any active coach.

3/28/2015 5:05:56 PM

Where are you guys getting the idea of a weak acc next year? There must be some sportswriter putting that idea out there, because it seems to be all over the message boards. Even on pack pride I see people like "next year is our chance to win the acc in a down year". Thats just so far from true. The ACC will be an absolute blender next year since the bad teams are starting to become good.

Does anyone remember marquette of the old big east? yeah, thats Virginia tech now...

3/28/2015 5:25:43 PM

there will never be a down year in the acc

3/28/2015 5:35:34 PM

2 Sweet 16s in his first 4 years. 2 seasons beating both Duke and UNC. We're relevant like we haven't been in awhile. We're not a cellar dweller or easy win for any team. We're not perfect but neither is Kentucky. Fact is, we're competitive again, and not only does that help our on-the-court success, but it helps my sanity living in an area with plenty of UNC and Duke fans. Anybody clamoring for a new young hotshot coach or other option because we should've beaten Louisville has no perspective on the recent history of this program. And anyone making definitive predictions about next year in March of this year probably didn't think we'd make the S16 this season.

+1

[Edited on March 29, 2015 at 12:29 AM. Reason : .]

3/29/2015 12:29:21 AM

^

3/29/2015 12:46:54 AM

^^

[Edited on March 29, 2015 at 12:51 AM. Reason : lol CARROTS]

3/29/2015 12:50:35 AM

^^^

3/29/2015 8:43:54 AM

^^^^

3/29/2015 9:09:41 AM

3/29/2015 9:12:04 AM

People also keep forgetting that expectations were low after TJ Warren declared for the draft. He accounted for a significant portion of the scoring last season and many people thought we had no shot at making the big dance let alone the sweet 16. Gott is a better coach than what he gets credit for. His coaching performances @Lousiville, @UNC, and against Villonova sealed the deal for me that he's a good coach. Don't get me started with Villanova, before they played us they were a legit final four threat, and then afterwards they suddenly the weakest 1 seed in the tournament and yadda yadda. Yeah, they missed some shots, but we also had a good game plan and executed it well.

3/29/2015 1:53:18 PM

He's exactly the coach he gets credit for. He would be mediocre if he never won big games. He's average because he can win a few. He's not great because he can't consistently string wins together.

He can't win consistently because his in-game adjustments and play calling are suspect. Hell, it took him most of the season to start Freeman. You can't consistently win if your coach is being out-schemed just as much as players are being out-played.

3/29/2015 3:21:52 PM

freeman started at the beginning of the year but his ass got benched when he was shooting 40% getting his shots blocked by 6'4 white PFs. cant blame gott for being slow to put him back in after that

as far as expectations go, everyone expects Gott teams to not play defense so when our entire offense went to the NBA you don't have to guess what the media was going to do. something tells me when louisville loses their entire offense this offseason the media isn't going to pick Pitino finish 10th, though

3/29/2015 3:30:01 PM