Quote :

"If this is the response she shared with other liberals"

Wait, are you calling yourself a liberal?

10/4/2018 6:56:34 PM

Quote :

"Moron, I disagree. I do so because I do not necessarily believe less money in my pocket or a billionaire’s pocket puts that same amount in another orcseveral other’s pockets. "

You’re misunderstanding what I’m saying I think.

Rich people hate nothing more than paying taxes. If the top marginal tax rate is very high, they’re not going to pay someone a higher wage who’s already making a ton of money, If there’s a better way to spend the money.

That means employees below the threshold for the top marginal rate get more money, or companies invest more in R&D which gives more opportunity to entrepreneurs.

So a top marginal rate does directly mean other people get more money. The clear evidence of this is US history. When the USA had a 90% top marginal rate, government tax receipts weren’t higher but inequality was much better.

[Edited on October 4, 2018 at 8:41 PM. Reason : ]

10/4/2018 8:40:21 PM

I wish Bridget could me less sarcastic with her posts.

When you said "both" earlier I assumed you included me with Gepetto. You wanted to know more about our situation?

I'm 38, my wife is 35. We have a five year old child and one due in early November (we spaced them apart due mainly to the cost of having two in daycare at the same time). We have a house that cost just over 200k. Two vehicles, a Silverado (snickers, of course the conservative drives a truck) on which we make payments and another vehicle that is pretty old and paid for. I'm working on paying off about 23k in student load debt. My wife was able to go through college without having to take out loans. We make a combined income of 140k before taxes. Any extra income right now is going to pay off some credit card debt we have and saving up for new hvac systems on our house that's fairly old. We don't have any kind of recreational vehicles or expensive hobbies. Oh and our kid attends public school. I've also got a somewhat large medical bill I'm working on paying off, thanks to a high deductible and a blocked intestine. Our med. insurance payments per month are probably about $600, and I have about 3k/year going to a med. spending account to try and offset the deductible some.

My dad was an elementary school teacher and my mom worked in textiles in Gaston Co. I remember them always kinda struggling with money when I was old enough to know what that meant. So no, I don't stand to inherit millions and I didn't come from money. My wife's father was an electrical engineer and her mother was a stay-at-home mom for a while then was a secretary.

So we are doing pretty well, but we're certainly no 1 percenters, and neither one of us came from money.

I hope that helps Bridget

10/4/2018 8:40:48 PM

^You’re about in the top 15% of people your age

[Edited on October 4, 2018 at 8:49 PM. Reason : ]

10/4/2018 8:49:21 PM

I got a dog a year ago and that’s caused enough of a financial impact for me to never have children.

10/4/2018 8:52:11 PM

Oh crap, I forgot we rescued two beagles. How could I forget about them??? I guess there is our expensive hobby.

^^I find it hard to believe that I'm in the top 15% of my age group. You did see where I said it was a combined income, right? I mean or neighborhood is full of people in our same situation and same age group. Extrapolating just the people in our neighborhood in our situation, seems like it would be more than 15%. Again our neighborhood is nothing fancy.

10/4/2018 8:56:36 PM

The median household income in NYC 50k.

If you’re making $140k in NC you’re towards the top.

10/4/2018 9:04:45 PM

For NC households it looks like it's around the top 10%

For Raleigh area obviously it's not that high.

10/4/2018 9:23:54 PM

^^^
You’re dramatically underestimating how difficult life is for most Americans

10/4/2018 9:31:20 PM

Aside from my dad I'm the only other person in my family with a degree....actually besides my dad and mom, maybe the only one with a HS diploma. So no, I see how difficult life is through my family.

10/4/2018 9:44:24 PM

I’ll take your word, but if you were surprised you were in the top 10-15% of people I’m skeptical you actually understand... I know about your parents picking cotton and stuff

10/4/2018 9:56:05 PM

RJ sounds like you should be supportive of free/cheap/no debt college and Medicare for all

Loan company and Health insurance ceos making millions by jacking up your interest and premiums

10/4/2018 10:03:09 PM

^^Picking cotton? I hope that's more sarcasm. My mom was a machine fixer making about $13/hr.

10/4/2018 10:08:24 PM

^
Ha I thought for sure it was you who told a story that your mom grew up picking cotton ... my mistake

Wonder who I’m thinking about...

Also this makes me now think you definitely don’t understand how difficult life is for most Americans

[Edited on October 4, 2018 at 10:27 PM. Reason : ]

10/4/2018 10:25:17 PM

^^^Yeah, I'm very confused. Maybe because he's already incurred those debts and expenses, he doesn't want other people to be able to escape them? He's a good Christian, I'm sure.

^They're bringing in 140k/year, and he's whining about a blocked intestine and having to pay for his own children. Sharing any of that story with us is ridiculous.

[Edited on October 4, 2018 at 10:29 PM. Reason : ridiculous]

10/4/2018 10:27:48 PM

Where did I complain about the intestine? I was just explaining some more debt that I have.

I consider myself Christian but I'm not a good one.

You ask me to explain my situation, then attack me for sharing it.

Of all the vitriolic spewing folks around here, you're becoming the worst.

[Edited on October 4, 2018 at 10:53 PM. Reason : worst]

10/4/2018 10:53:14 PM

https://www.brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=649725&page=1#16477536

It was you, but it was your in law that was a cotton picker

10/4/2018 10:55:29 PM

Glad to see you're being so resourceful.

Yes, my mother-in-law picked cotton as a child in the NC Piedmont. Now of course I don't have any primary sources that can prove it, I'm just taking her word for it.

10/4/2018 10:59:12 PM

It was also good to take a little break from the reality that is Trump.

10/4/2018 11:02:43 PM

Why are you dipshits just attacking this dude constantly? He's admitted he doesn't know much about left wing politics, but is obviously willing to learn. You should be going after HCH and Geppetto.

10/4/2018 11:02:56 PM

Quote :

"Ha I thought for sure it was you who told a story that your mom grew up picking cotton ... my mistake Wonder who I’m thinking about..."

maybe me? my dad grew up priming tobacco...and my maternal grandmother picked some cotton around their farm growing up.

10/4/2018 11:13:28 PM

I’m not attacking him

But you have to wonder if rjrufml didn’t realize how high in the food chain he is, sort of makes sense why other conservatives think leftists are just being dramatic when they harp on the plight of the American middle class

People really don’t get how poor our middle class actuall us, let alone our poor people

^ that makes sense, i think I’m conflating all your stories

[Edited on October 4, 2018 at 11:17 PM. Reason : ]

10/4/2018 11:15:51 PM

Holy shit, guys. All of our relatives worked tobacco and/or picked cotton.


^^^^^^^I was genuinely just spewing vitriol, not asking for your background.

At no point did I sincerely think you were a secret billionaire or standing to inherit oodles of money.

I didn't even know or care that you classified yourself as "conservative."

And I think the Silverados are pretty fucking sweet. I've been a fan of various trucks for many years, and the comfy ones that people don't actually use for work are obviously the most luxurious luxury vehicles on the road today.

10/4/2018 11:21:06 PM

We’ve all become snowflakes in our old age

2005 era tww would be embarrassed by this discussion (but we’re still more decent than Kavanaugh was)

10/4/2018 11:26:46 PM

Quote :

"Holy shit, guys. All of our relatives worked tobacco and/or picked cotton"

yeah, i mean...that doesn't narrow it down all that much in NC.

10/5/2018 12:16:27 AM

Quote :

"Holy shit, guys. All of our relatives worked tobacco and/or picked cotton."

yep

and still talk about how great tobacco smells while drying, even though it was hard, hard work

[Edited on October 5, 2018 at 12:24 AM. Reason : and half of them swear they never even touched a cigarette ]

10/5/2018 12:19:29 AM

Quote :

"I consider myself Christian but I'm not a good one."

Jesus Christ agrees.

LMAO @ actually posting your income and debts. You're not poor or oppressed and scraping by to have bare bone basics; you're just cheap, entitled, and a pretty vocal whiner. I hope that pricy daycare you're bitching about is teaching your kids more empathy than you've shown on TWW.

Quote :

"Of all the vitriolic spewing folks around here, you're becoming the worst."

Warts (hopefully not genital ) and all, she's actually kinda the best at calling a spade a spade. I admire her DGAF attitude, even though it can be shrill at times because she's a woman.

Quote :

"Why are you dipshits just attacking this dude constantly? He's admitted he doesn't know much about left wing politics, but is obviously willing to learn. You should be going after HCH and Geppetto."

Those fools are beyond help, but you're right. As tone deaf and ignorant (can't forget entitled and misguided) rjr can be at times, at least he's authentic and kind of vulnerable, showing flashes of intellectual curiosity from time to time. If he actually wants to "learn", he's gotta suck it up. Also, he brings it on himself and this is TWW, so the white knighting is a bit weird.



[Edited on October 5, 2018 at 2:45 AM. Reason : .]

10/5/2018 2:28:35 AM

toiletpaper.gif

10/5/2018 7:40:51 AM

Aside from the normal white privilege that I've taken advantage of, how do I act entitled?

To me, feeling like I shouldn't have to pay for college, or health care, is more of acting entitled than anything I've said.

10/5/2018 9:23:43 AM

thinking that someone who qualifies for childcare subsidy has an easy life is pretty entitled (and you haven't explained how you know they receive a subsidy, so it's also maybe creepy)

10/5/2018 9:32:51 AM

Rjr credibility watch

10/5/2018 9:45:08 AM

Don't let their liberal guilt get to you, RJR. You should be proud of whatever income class you have achieved, and continue working to better your own situation.

[Edited on October 5, 2018 at 10:20 AM. Reason : I would be careful of giving out too much personal information. You know how libs like to dox people]

10/5/2018 10:17:10 AM

10/5/2018 10:26:38 AM

So about that Trump...

10/5/2018 11:10:42 AM

Quote :

"I admire her DGAF attitude, even though it can be shrill at times because she's a woman."

10/5/2018 11:18:33 AM

^I think the "shrill" part of that comment was satire.

And dtownral, there wasn't much creepy to me finding out what people in the smartstart program pay. I noticed that people were paying at the front desk with a card, so I attempted to pay with a card, you know, to get all those CC rewards, and they told me I couldn't pay with plastic. So naturally I pointed out that the other family just paid with a card, and the person at the front desk went on to tell me that the card belonged to an assistance program. Of course she didn't know anything about my income so she told me a little about it and how to see if we qualified.

So I went out and researched the program for NC, and found out about it.

Look, I feel extremely grateful for where I am. I'm happy with it, and very thankful for it. Just a few years ago (now maybe more like 7 or 8) my wife and I qualified for the USDA loan program, which has an income cap that is below the national average. At the time I think it was like 42k? Not sure. But between job moves, promotions, and that white privilege, we've been able to do well. I need to mention though at that time my wife was unemployed, so I guess we were considered a single income household?

It is really hard for me to shake some deep rooted ideals I have about government assistance. That is mostly shaped by my surroundings growing up, and seeing how a majority of my family has turned out. They could suck the social safety net teat dry and still come begging for more. You all have paid for two births, one of which as born addicted to heroin. Multiple surgeries. Multiple incarcerations. My dad spent months....months after my grandmother died trying to find his brother a home. His brother doesn't work due to a "back injury" and his psuedo wife (divorced? estranged? I can't keep up) is on disability I guess for mental issues. Their income is like 1000/month, and dad found a really nice trailer that they could get with their portion of the sale of his mother's small home. ~11k, and a small monthly payment. What did they do with their money? Fucking lottery tickets. His batshit wife was sure they could win with that kind of "investment."

So you see why I become disillusioned with government assistance. Sure all of this is anecdotal. But I see more negative anecdotes than I do positive ones. I would love to see examples of the safety net actually helping people that need it and don't take advantage. Maybe that can change my mind more than anything.

But it hasn't been Fox news or conservative media that has shaped my opinion. It's been family. Oh and they all vote Republican, believe it or not.

10/5/2018 11:46:09 AM

Quote :

"I think the "shrill" part of that comment was satire."

Clearly, on multiple levels.

10/5/2018 12:46:35 PM

It's a strange take to say that poor people being bad at being not poor = taking advantage of the system.

10/5/2018 2:17:26 PM

You seem to be doing what I get accused of doing - taking my anecdotal evidence and applying it (or at least how I think about it) to everyone in that same category. These people that I talk about (family)...they're poor because they're irresponsible. They're not poor because they're bad at being poor, they're poor because they act stupidly.

10/5/2018 2:24:32 PM

So, is it your assumption that all poor people are irresponsible? It seems that your perspective is that no people should receive government assistance in order to ensure that no irresponsible people will receive government assistance.

[Edited on October 5, 2018 at 2:45 PM. Reason : ]

10/5/2018 2:45:22 PM

How are the irresponsible? I missed that part.

10/5/2018 3:01:22 PM

Quote :

"It is really hard for me to shake some deep rooted ideals I have about government assistance. That is mostly shaped by my surroundings growing up, and seeing how a majority of my family has turned out. They could suck the social safety net teat dry and still come begging for more. You all have paid for two births, one of which as born addicted to heroin. Multiple surgeries. Multiple incarcerations. My dad spent months....months after my grandmother died trying to find his brother a home. His brother doesn't work due to a "back injury" and his psuedo wife (divorced? estranged? I can't keep up) is on disability I guess for mental issues. Their income is like 1000/month, and dad found a really nice trailer that they could get with their portion of the sale of his mother's small home. ~11k, and a small monthly payment. What did they do with their money? Fucking lottery tickets. His batshit wife was sure they could win with that kind of "investment.""

You're talking about a family with a history of medical problems, addiction, and apparently poor education, expecting them to make excellent choices. There is your problem. It's extremely easy for someone to be in that situation and think "I'll never get out of this, my family is poor so I'll always be poor", especially when you lack the support network to push you toward good decisions. And here's the other issue, when you are poor, there's always more than one thing you should be spending money on that you can't afford. You pick between dental care and healthy food, or between getting your back fixed and paying your car insurance on time, and so on. And as much as conservatives don't want to admit it, entertainment is a necessity. What's the point of life if you can't enjoy it? The 11k your family spent on lottery tickets is a pretty bad situation, but it's easy to see how someone might spend money on their immediate happiness, or a gambling addiction, rather than one of the multitude of long term issues they're faced with.

Liberals will throw money at the problem via welfare, but they aren't actually interested in a permanent solution because they are, above all, capitalists, and capitalism depends on an impoverished working class. Socialists believe in welfare for the underprivileged, but also in liberating the working class from their ills. Society needs to be radically altered to look at the working class as meaningful contributors rather than expendable labor-robots. As the working class becomes more educated and less alienated from the fruits of their labor, the problems you are describing will naturally decrease.

Quote :

"But I see more negative anecdotes than I do positive one"

Because you consume too much right-wing media.

10/5/2018 3:06:39 PM

Quote :

"How are the irresponsible? I missed that part."

By spending thousands of dollars on lottery tickets? Heroin? My cousin has free child care and doesn't work. Had a car given to them and they've destroyed it. I could go on and on.

Quote :

"apparently poor education"

Pretty much all of them chose to drop out of school

Quote :

"especially when you lack the support network to push you toward good decisions."

My father gave them plenty of support, like I said he spent months working with them to secure a way to get housing, and they just threw it away.

[Edited on October 5, 2018 at 3:41 PM. Reason : sad]

10/5/2018 3:38:41 PM

Poor education includes family life which is often handed down across generations.

http://www.uwaystan.org/blog-entry/09-03-2013/3-reasons-students-dropout-high-school

[Edited on October 5, 2018 at 3:42 PM. Reason : .]

10/5/2018 3:41:06 PM

And rjrumfel doesn't want those kids going to pre-k to start their education so they can be stuck in the same situation.

10/5/2018 4:41:25 PM

Quote :

" I would love to see examples of the safety net actually helping people that need it and don't take advantage."

Have you looked in the mirror?

Quote :

"my wife and I qualified for the USDA loan program, which has an income cap that is below the national average"

The disability and assistance your shitty relatives get picks up a lot of slack so that you--the responsible one--don't have to.

10/5/2018 4:54:03 PM

^^
already made in-roads there

Quote :

"Hey, I'm all for making preschool public and a requirement. Let it be the new Kindergarten."

[Edited on October 5, 2018 at 5:04 PM. Reason : .]

10/5/2018 5:03:33 PM

Yeah but he doesn't think they should be allowed to afford it


He can get government help buying a house though, that's cool with him

10/5/2018 5:48:33 PM

A government-backed home that will increase in value, which he can sell or leave to his children.

So that many years from now, his kids can sit around baffled why the poors are just so poor.

10/5/2018 6:35:56 PM

Quote :

""But I see more negative anecdotes than I do positive one""

Obama’s mom used food stamps

Trump’s dad used federal loan programs to build his wealth

My friend knocked up a woman while he was a grad student in nuclear engineering and they used WIC to buy food

My other good friend was raised comfortably by his single mom because they lived on farmland they inherited and qualified for thousands of dollars a year in farm aide (although they never farmed a day in their life) (also he went to college on a full need based scholarship as a white male)

My cousins who are both engineers now got free and reduced lunch in grade school

I actually don’t personally know of anyone that abuses any welfare program...

10/5/2018 11:13:20 PM