i need ideas on outdoor targets.

metal ones that spin when you shoot.
or whatever.

3/14/2008 11:51:49 PM

can you use any bullets with those or cast lead?

3/15/2008 4:03:42 PM

hmm.. well i figured if you use fmj and thicker than 1/8inch steel it should be ok. i may take some scrap metal out and experiment

3/15/2008 6:28:41 PM

You'll need at least 3/8" plate for targets. I tore some 1/8" up with nothing but .22 LR rounds. For FMJ rifle rounds, you'll need 1/2" plate for longevity.

3/15/2008 8:30:09 PM

so no chance of ricochet?

3/15/2008 11:29:01 PM

thats one of my concerns. im trying to get it thin enough to where it may cause a little dent and kind of just fall to the ground.

of course it depends on how far one shoots from.

3/16/2008 12:18:54 AM

yea, i was thinking the same thing.

3/16/2008 12:37:47 AM

I have made some spinning targets in the past, but about the best deal going is:
http://tinyurl.com/2wof24

stands up to .44

3/16/2008 11:47:00 AM

thats pretty cool

3/16/2008 5:07:07 PM

sweet. now if only my neighbors wouldn't call the police on me.

3/16/2008 5:10:42 PM

Like Nitrocloud said, you'd need at least 3/8" for any handguns and small centerfire rifles.
3/8 won't hold up to regular shooting with medium and larger centerfire rifles...and 1/2" might not either depending on the alloy/heat treat, how big the rifles are, and how the plate is supported.

If the plates are lightly supported with small feet or propped up some something like a stick then they'll last longer.
If they're rigidly attached to a swinging arm then you'll tear them up faster because they have to absorb more energy.
A friend has some steel plates with small feet welded on and some swinging plates made of the same stuff, but welded onto pipes attached to cross members so they swing. A FMJ 308 will put a crater halfway through the swinging target but barely puts a dent in the free standing targets.
On the swinging targets 12ga slugs rip the plates off the rods where they're welded together

You always run the risk of riccochet unless the plate is thin/soft enough to deform a lot...but then why build a steel target if you're going to destroy it?
If you're concerned with ricochet then shoot soft lead bullets or just get some scrap wood to shoot at.
Scrap wood is cheap

[Edited on March 17, 2008 at 12:50 AM. Reason : ]

3/17/2008 12:49:14 AM

i was thinking about some sort of enclosed area to trap the bullets. kid of like the range.

but who knows. not trying to spend/work a lot

3/17/2008 8:32:55 AM

used mossberg 500a tactical for $195, a good deal?

3/17/2008 8:51:58 AM

^^A shelter over the targets would definately help reduce riccochet.

^Depends on the condition and accessories, but it sounds like a reasonably good deal.

3/17/2008 12:20:05 PM

^^^a piece of steel behind the target, angled to deflect bullets downward...like you put a piece of steel flat on the ground...then grab the front edge closest to you and pull it up so the ground-steel angle is roughly 45 degrees

3/17/2008 12:25:10 PM

^yah, thats exactly what i was planning. ive see them online for sale..

but i have access to scrap metal and welding. i may just rig one up myself.

maybe something like 3 feet wide and 2 feet tall. nothing too big. could get heavy. unless i just use metal plating for the bottom and the angle piece and some tubing for the "frame".

i may rig some targets that kind of spring backwards when they are shot. and just pop back into place.

ive first got to see how much material i have to use.

3/17/2008 1:05:08 PM

Do you have any other backstop like a dirt berm?
I don't think you'd need a big piece of steel to direct bullets down as long as you had a good berm.

I'd be more concerned about what happend to the bullets that hit the steel targets...

You may want to hang the targets with heavy steel chain instead. If the targets are allowed to swing back from the base then it could redirect bullets upward. Upward and right back at you might not be a good thing.

3/17/2008 2:44:57 PM

back, and to the left.

3/17/2008 2:48:02 PM

^^yeah, some sort of device that will put the target back in place. a chain seems like it would work.
where we shoot, the back stop is millions of trees, of course we are shooting downwards, so its really the grass, and anything higher, then millions of trees.

3/17/2008 2:50:40 PM

shooting steel at Range 1, I never had any trouble with ricochets, even when the targets didn't fall.

3/17/2008 2:52:59 PM

whats the law behind being a citizen and stopping a crime.

say you see someone shoot someone and run off, could you fire at them in an attempt to stop them?

i guess only if they are a direct threat to you right? considering you're legal to carry and stuff.

3/17/2008 8:49:43 PM

Quote :

"say you see someone shoot someone and run off, could you fire at them in an attempt to stop them? "

Don't think so. You can only shoot in defense of yourself, or in defense of another if that individual would be legally allowed to shoot in self defense.

3/17/2008 9:02:00 PM

yeah, i figured self defense is a big key in this.

so i could defend someone else also? from what ^ is saying?

[Edited on March 17, 2008 at 9:04 PM. Reason : ]

3/17/2008 9:04:34 PM

You can use deadly force to stop an attacker if you or anyone else is in danger of being killed of having great bodily harm done to them.
If someone shot someone else and drives away then you no longer have the legal ability to use deadly force because no one is currently being threatened.

The only other time you can use deadly force is when someone is forcing entry into your place of residence. Basically you can shoot them as they're busting down your door/window.
Once they're in you have to be in danger to legally shoot them.

[Edited on March 17, 2008 at 9:27 PM. Reason : ]

3/17/2008 9:24:24 PM

^werd. thanks for the clarification.

check out the protest thread at the top of the lounge. similar question has been asked

3/17/2008 9:29:56 PM

Have you heard about Texas' latest gun law?
There's a state law that allows anyone to shoot burglars, even if they're not on your property.

There was some dude who saw some mexicans stealing TVs and junk from his neighbor's house.
The guy called the cops and the dispatcher told him it'd be a while before they got there.
So...the dude went and got his shotgun and told the dispatcher that he understands the new law and he'd shoot them before they got away.
He ended up shooting and killing both intruders.
They won't be stealing again...

That's a little too out there.
I hate bad people, but I also value life.
Killing a bad guy to preserve your own or another's life is great, but over $1500 worth of entertainment equipment?

3/17/2008 9:41:45 PM

yeah i heard about that. didnt the dispatcher tell him not to go out there with the guns.

3/17/2008 9:45:18 PM

Yeah.

3/17/2008 9:47:27 PM

whatever happened.. didnt he get convicted? i mean im down for what he did (not killing the guys), but he should have at least tried to scare them off

3/17/2008 9:48:40 PM

He didn't have to, they were about to leave.

Last I read he wasn't charged with anything.

3/17/2008 9:53:18 PM

dude was like 65 years old and there were two young robbers, who knows if they were about to leave or not

3/17/2008 10:58:06 PM

Quote :

"Have you heard about Texas' latest gun law? There's a state law that allows anyone to shoot burglars, even if they're not on your property. There was some dude who saw some mexicans stealing TVs and junk from his neighbor's house. The guy called the cops and the dispatcher told him it'd be a while before they got there. So...the dude went and got his shotgun and told the dispatcher that he understands the new law and he'd shoot them before they got away. He ended up shooting and killing both intruders. They won't be stealing again... That's a little too out there. I hate bad people, but I also value life. Killing a bad guy to preserve your own or another's life is great, but over $1500 worth of entertainment equipment?"

If there were laws like that everywhere, our society would be a lot more honest. I hate a damn thief with a passion.

3/18/2008 11:22:24 AM

Live audio from the SCOTUS hearing in DC v Heller on CNN.com right now.

3/18/2008 11:37:47 AM

The gunsmith at PDHSC is pretty cool. I took a look at a bunch of his work. He had a custom Rem 870 with a ported match grade barrel, tritium vial installed on a front sight, recoil reducing adjustable stock with cheek weld. Some other crap I can't remember. Good stuff.

His AR-15 was well built as well. Stag lower, Wilson Combat upper, Aim point sight, those easy to load magazines, etc... I want two of everything in his safe.

I typically don't prefer glocks, but the ones he had on display were decently modified for better functionality.

[Edited on March 19, 2008 at 6:16 AM. Reason : d]

3/19/2008 6:15:21 AM

Also unless someone can reduce the trigger pull of the HK p30, it's off my list. It's just too damn long. I prefer the pull of my sig.

It just fits in my hand soooo well. Stupid HK.

3/19/2008 8:36:03 AM

Is the trigger reach too far or is the trigger travel real long?
If the reach is too far then someone might offer an aftermarket "short" trigger. Sigs have those.
Gunsmiths can also modify many triggers to give you shorter reach.

If the trigger travel is too long...well most of the time that can't be fixed.
Sone really good gunsmiths can fix some trigger travel problems such as reset length.

About the shotgun...you'd be surprised what you can put on yourself and get basically the same thing.
Match grade barrel on a shotgun? I don't know what's considered match grade on a shotgun considering shotguns aren't made to shoot tiny groups. Maybe that barrel's had some forcing cone work and has had the bore polished, but to call it match grade is kinda silly.

3/19/2008 9:40:47 AM

The trigger travel is absurdly long. Unacceptable.

I def. like to get something similar. I don't know if it's b/c of the porting or recoil reducing stock, but his shotgun had a lot less recoil than anything I've ever shot. Using slugs too.

About calling the barrel on the 870 "match grade" - dunno, he called it that and said only 100 had been produced. The barrel was markedly thicker than usual.

BTW what do you call the sling that (if you are right handed) goes over your left shoulder and neck and hangs down - it was on an ar-15, and allows you a free right hand to grab your pistol? I've seen some solider and competition people use it.

[Edited on March 19, 2008 at 10:01 AM. Reason : g]

3/19/2008 10:00:35 AM

Quote :

"Also unless someone can reduce the trigger pull of the HK p30, it's off my list. It's just too damn long. I prefer the pull of my sig. It just fits in my hand soooo well. Stupid HK. "

Quote :

"In a world of compromises, some people put the bullets in the magazine backwards…But it doesn’t matter, because our gun is on the cover of the Rainbow Six video games. Look how cool that SEAL coming out of the water looks… If you buy a $2,000 SOCOM, you will be that cool of an operator too. And chicks will dig you. At HK, we stuck a piston on an AR15, just like a bunch of other companies have done, dating back to about 1969. However ours is better, because we refuse to sell it to civilians. Because you suck, and we hate you. Our XM8 is the greatest rifle ever developed. It may melt, and it doesn’t fit any accessories known to man, but that is your fault. If you were a real operator, you would love it. Once again, look at Rainbow Six, that G36 sure is cool isn’t it? Yeah, you know you want one.And by the way, check out our new HK45. We decided that humans don’t need to release the magazine with their thumbs. If you were a really manly teutonic operator, you would be able to reach the controls. Plus we’ve fired 100,000,000 rounds through one with zero malfunctions, and that was while it was buried in a lake of molten lava, on the moon. If you don’t believe us, it is because you aren’t a real operator. By the way, our cheap, mass-produced, stamped sheet metal guns like the G3 and MP5 are the bestest things ever, and totally worth asinine scalpers prices, but note that cheap, mass-produced, stamped sheet metal guns from other countries are commie garbage. Not that it matters, because you’re civilians, so we won’t sell them to you anyway. Because you suck, and we hate you, but we know you’ll be back. We can beat you down like a trailer park wife, but you’ll come back, you always do. Buy our stuff. Sincerely HK Marketing Department. HK. Because you suck. And we hate you. "

3/19/2008 11:58:30 AM

Quote :

"I def. like to get something similar. I don't know if it's b/c of the porting or recoil reducing stock, but his shotgun had a lot less recoil than anything I've ever shot. Using slugs too."

It's probably a Knoxx recoil reducing stock.
Ports generally don't reduce recoil, but they do keep the muzzle from rising during recoil.

Quote :

"BTW what do you call the sling that (if you are right handed) goes over your left shoulder and neck and hangs down - it was on an ar-15, and allows you a free right hand to grab your pistol? I've seen some solider and competition people use it. "

3 point sling

You can make your own.
All you need is a sewing needle, some nylon thread, some webbing & other hardware from REI, and sling swivels from Walmart.

3/19/2008 12:23:42 PM

Quote :

"Also unless someone can reduce the trigger pull of the HK p30"

the HK P2000 is even longer...you shoot 4 or 5 mags through it and your finger feels like its about to fall off

3/19/2008 1:02:14 PM

Quote :

"BTW what do you call the sling that (if you are right handed) goes over your left shoulder and neck and hangs down - it was on an ar-15, and allows you a free right hand to grab your pistol? I've seen some solider and competition people use it."

You can also can get away with a two point sling as long as your mount the sling to the side of the stock. For ARs at least, you can get a space that replaces the stock spacer between the stock and the lower that has a loop for attachment, and you can get attachments for the forend rail or, the front sight post. Then, just sling it over your right, under you left, allow enough slack for movement, and rock on with your bad self.

3/19/2008 1:07:23 PM

Don't know if you guys have seen this or if it has been posted before, but some fellas at ar15.com pointed me in the direction of http://www.rangemaster.com/ for some pretty slick dry-fire drills you can do with your monitor.

click on Dry Fire Drills in the column to the left.

[Edited on March 19, 2008 at 1:38 PM. Reason : directions]

3/19/2008 1:37:37 PM

Quote :

"Ports generally don't reduce recoil, but they do keep the muzzle from rising during recoil."

yay me for being a moron. after you mentioned that, his exact words came back to me.

now i'm all interested in building an ar-15 and a shotgun. a FAL rifle would be nice too.

[Edited on March 19, 2008 at 10:44 PM. Reason : eh]

3/19/2008 10:40:48 PM

nah, you're not a moron.
Many people confuse porting, compensators, muzzle brakes, and flash hiders all the time.

I never really understood what ports do til I bought a gun that had them.

I plan on building an AR sometime in the next year or two.
It's gonna be a fairly plain 16" midlength.
You can save a bit of money putting it together yourself.

3/19/2008 11:32:13 PM

i'd go ahead and buy yourself a good upper and lower before this next election

3/20/2008 11:23:35 AM

ive got this gun (not the one pictured, mine is actually two tone, someone called it reverse stainless) my slide is dark grey

those ports are the ones above the little springfield armory badge. its cool to shoot at night, or in a dark place because you can see it breathe fire. guy at personal defense said these are "fire breathers" or something like that.

[Edited on March 20, 2008 at 11:47 AM. Reason : ]

3/20/2008 11:46:25 AM

^that's a nice pistol btw.

One of the guys at PDHSC showed me a few of his pistols. A glock that had a lightened trigger and a 1911 with a hair trigger. I don't understand why you would carry those around? I need a bit of resistance to know that I'm pulling the trigger, otherwise what's the point?

I'd like to get a ported pistol one of these days, but what's the deal with it killing your night vision more than a nonported one would? Is that bunk? If it is, I'd def. like my 40s&w with less muzzle rise and faster target acquisition.

Quote :

"You can save a bit of money putting it together yourself."

I'm def interested in putting it together. It doesn't look that hard, considering that there is a little girl that can strip and reassemble one in 50 seconds.

3/20/2008 3:13:29 PM

Quote :

"A glock that had a lightened trigger and a 1911 with a hair trigger. I don't understand why you would carry those around? I need a bit of resistance to know that I'm pulling the trigger, otherwise what's the point?"

When it comes to a personal defense weapon, I couldn't agree more. I don't understand the guys who brag about a 2 lbs trigger on their carry 1911 (or Glock in this case).

Quote :

"I'd like to get a ported pistol one of these days, but what's the deal with it killing your night vision more than a nonported one would? Is that bunk?"

I haven't shot a ported pistol in low light but I'd imagine they are less than optional for no other reason than you'd have to worry about where the gasses went if you got in a struggle at point blank range. With a non-ported pistol, at least you've only got to point the gun at your target.

I've also found that ammunition selection plays a BIG role in night vision. Some types of ammunition simply have more flash / bang than others.

3/20/2008 3:18:32 PM

Quote :

""A glock that had a lightened trigger and a 1911 with a hair trigger. I don't understand why you would carry those around? I need a bit of resistance to know that I'm pulling the trigger, otherwise what's the point?""

I don't think it matters, personally. Finger shouldn't be on the trigger unless you're ready to do some shooting, in which case, who cares what the pull is.

3/20/2008 5:13:38 PM

^ A two pound trigger is damn easy to accidentally fire. It's light enough that in a crunch, you'll bump-fire the ENTIRE magazine and be empty before you were ready to fire the first shot. I've seen it done before on a 1911, one without a memory bump on the grip safety.

3/20/2008 6:19:15 PM