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5/29/2006 3:14:13 AM

Quote :

"^enron was mostly accounting fraud, not insider trading so what are you talking about? "

Yes, but it is still a manipulation of the system and the psychology of the system directly realted to stock price. Were incentives not tied to stock price, or rather, if incentives aren't in the form of stock to those that have a real and powerful influence on the stock, things like this, when going bad take out the lives of many unfotunate folks, it's a flawed system.

[Edited on May 29, 2006 at 4:31 AM. Reason : ^ there is really no need to do this shit in the lounge, save the stupid padding for shit chat]

5/29/2006 4:30:48 AM

^i can agree with that, but I don't think the problem is with the market system. As you've said I think it's a great idea/tool, and is responsible for a lot of legitimate companies and products.

If you want an entity to blame, then blame human psychology and/or greed, not the market system. I think the fact that anyone can buy a piece of a public company and sell it to another person more or less whenever they want is fantastic.

tradeking.com anyone?

5/29/2006 12:59:09 PM

tradeking looks legit i guess, i wouldn't switch out of Scottrade for it, but if i was just starting up, i'd give it a considering

start with a little bit and see how you like it

5/29/2006 2:32:06 PM

Is there a way to find publicly traded companies that offer services that you could specify. For instance I think it would be a good idea to invest in some companies now that offer HD conversions (for film to digital format) like R!OT does for HBO.

Also does anyone use E*TRADE?

5/30/2006 9:28:57 AM

^ i'm not sure which industry it falls under, but here's some industry breakdowns.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ic/ind_index.html

http://tinyurl.com/rolqk

5/30/2006 9:38:32 AM

Quote :

"but I don't think the problem is with the market system"

When a system can be routinely and systematically manipulated, then there is something wrong with the system.

5/30/2006 9:56:40 AM

Ticker: INNO

5/30/2006 9:57:23 AM

^^ um, that would pretty much be any system ever devised by man.

^ I swear i saw that in one of those pump and dump spams.

5/30/2006 9:59:58 AM

Ticker: KLUCQ

5/30/2006 10:37:43 AM

interesting days

5/30/2006 5:30:42 PM

can't help but think that tomorrow or soon thereafter we will either see a spike up, or a further correction of 8-12% on the overall market

5/30/2006 5:52:54 PM

Fundamentally, I think most of the bad news is out that is going to come out. The housing bubble is not priced in, and that does concern me.

5/31/2006 9:01:30 AM

well, i understand how it'll be bad when that bubble bursts in terms of companies that directly benefit from the housing bubble (construction, materials, tools/equipment, etc), and in terms of general economic slowdown...

but wouldn't it be largely mitigated by investors leaning back towards the stock market instead of real estate?

5/31/2006 9:27:40 AM

There's quite a bit more to it than that, another big factor being the interest rate hikes. With the huge increase in ARMs a couple of years ago, the recent hikes have spiked mortgage payments, as well as foreclosures. It will affect consumer spending in the 2nd half of the year, so there'll be a ripple effect that transcends multiple sectors.

Depending on whether more hikes are coming up, it would be a soft landing, or a nasty crash. Sadly, a lot of people have jumped on the 50 year mortgage and negative amortization bandwagons, and they will be fucked.

5/31/2006 9:58:36 AM

man look at PEIX drop...really makes me wanna jump on board

5/31/2006 10:08:14 AM

Dear Rambus:
Please stop going down.

Thanks.

5/31/2006 11:57:32 AM

^ ouch

you guys should really take a closer look at ETFs

5/31/2006 1:00:19 PM

I'm not that familiar with ETF's, care to explain?

5/31/2006 1:37:35 PM

similar to mutual funds, but better, you can trade them like stocks.

http://finance.yahoo.com/etf/education

5/31/2006 1:39:53 PM

"Exchange Traded Funds" ( i have misnomered "exchange" with "electronic" in the past )

they're pretty much mutual funds, except they can be traded like a stock--enter ticker, set limit, etc. each ETF share is worth the net asset value of all the stocks it holds. i like them because they offer instant diversification, instant liquidity, and allow you to play industries, sectors, and even regions that are hot, while avoiding company specific risk. for example i own a Brazil fund EWZ, and a Latin AMerica fund ILF. also, EWJ--Japan, EWO--Austria, etc.

i also own IIB--a biotech fund and IGV--a software fund. ETFs are good for biotechs because there are a lot of companies whose valuations hinge on binary events. if the therapeutic falters/is delayed in clinical trials, the stock gets punished. i usually know which biotechs to buy because i'm in the business, but even then i've been dramatically wrong on some ideas.

there are also ETFs that are directly correlated to the net asset value of held commodities. for example, IAU is worth the amount of gold they hold, and SLV is worth the amount of silver they hold.

there are some ETFs that require you to buy in blocks of atleast 100. i don't own any of those.

because they're essentially funds, the reward maybe less than individual stocks, but so is the risk.

there are also closed end funds, which are a bit different. closed end funds trade at a premium or discount to the net asset value of the fund's holdings. one closed end fund i hold is IFN. the amount of premium or discount varies with the sector and the fund's structure. i'm not as familiar with how the pricing works on closed end funds. i bought IFN because i think there is a lot of value yet to be realised in India, especially since the Rupee is ridiculously undervalued.

in recent pages of this thread i've listed the portfolio i built with mostly ETFs and afew closed ends.

here is the list:
http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/partsub/funds/etfperformancetracker.aspx

some articles to get you started:
http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/research/etfwelcome.asp?ETF=true

5/31/2006 2:03:03 PM

IFN sounds intriguing

I don't see India's growth slowing anytime soon.

5/31/2006 2:09:20 PM

from one of the yahoo links posted ^^^

Quote :

"Both types of funds in the table have modest distributions, certainly in comparison to actively managed mutual funds. And the more turnover from trying to pick stocks, the more an active fund will force investors to pay the IRS. It's an ugly and little discussed fact that active mutual fund investors can end up paying other investors' tax bills, especially in a bear market. That's because investors who sell out before the day of record for that distribution will not receive the tax bill, while loyal investors who stay in will pay it for the entire amount!... ...ETFs are considered to be created by trading equivalent certificates (the ETF for the many stocks that make up the basket) in what is called an in-kind trade. This exchange of essentially identical items does not trigger capital gains, according to the IRS. Traditional mutual funds must go into the open market and exchange cash for stocks and vice versa, which trigger realization of gains. It's a subtle difference, admittedly, but which results in an advantage for the ETF investor."

that plus the fact that the liquidity offers price efficiency is why noone needs mutual funds now that ETFs exist. the only mutuals i have are in my 401k.



[Edited on May 31, 2006 at 2:14 PM. Reason : ^^^]

5/31/2006 2:13:20 PM

yeah, I am infatuated with IFN, but its one of the riskier funds.

also, overall markets are 10-20% off their highs, and i think atleast 2/3 of the correction has already occured. i figured now would be a good time to build a broad ETF portfolio and let it sit.

5/31/2006 2:18:36 PM

i said it once. and ill say it again. KLUCQ

[Edited on May 31, 2006 at 3:26 PM. Reason : e]

5/31/2006 3:25:49 PM

Might be too late to get into KLUCQ...

5/31/2006 3:39:21 PM

itll hit .35

5/31/2006 3:41:43 PM

here we go...

http://tinyurl.com/oa6w6

6/1/2006 12:30:45 AM

NLST has had a great day for all of you who bought and held

6/1/2006 2:00:26 PM

wish i had a way to buy some, it dipped to .27 last week.

6/1/2006 2:20:51 PM

I'm going to say ACI on more time.

SHLD is also going steadily. They're my two picks for the summer right now.

6/1/2006 2:41:08 PM

couple of things:

(1) any of you sell any NLST yet? if so, how long did it take, and did you get your limit price that you entered? i want in, but i am concerned about exiting with these penny stocks.

(2) i picked up some BIDU in the high 70s. i keep seeing stuff like this about it.
http://tinyurl.com/m8j2r
it think it has the potential to move, but with these inflated-valuation stocks, when the bottom falls out, it can make you bleed. i'm from the late 90s--i just can't help but be attracted to it.

(3) i hear way too many crickets when the market is down. i'm giving you guys the benefit of the doubt and thinking when the market dips, that you're too busy trying to not puke all over your monitor to type any responses. i hope this thread hasn't turned into just a forum for boasting about good calls...although some of you have made some damn good calls. we should be using lows to enter, and highs to exit. i just hope new investors reading this aren't buying at highs and expecting to go higher, while panicking when the stocks drop.

6/1/2006 4:44:32 PM

I sold off some I had bought at .19 but I still have plenty left

the orders dont fill as quick as normal stocks, but they do fill

6/1/2006 4:46:44 PM

Yay, I think RMBS heard me.

6/1/2006 6:47:14 PM

my holdings increased 6.5% today

6/1/2006 7:36:55 PM

Edit: 6.7%
...stupid windows calculator doing what I tell it to, not what I meant. grr..

[Edited on June 1, 2006 at 8:24 PM. Reason : ]

6/1/2006 8:01:25 PM

nlst sold in about 15 minutes on a limit order for me

6/1/2006 10:22:01 PM

buy INNO now!

6/2/2006 12:57:06 PM

good god why?


my gamble on ENCY paid off today

6/2/2006 5:40:51 PM

Damn, the last 2 days, I've shot the hell up.

Although I dropped pretty significantly over the last 2 weeks...

6/2/2006 5:41:36 PM

get ready for the market this week

anyone make any DINERO from shorting stocks the last 2-3 weeks?

6/4/2006 7:28:17 PM

i've switched over to a much more conservative investing strategy for the summer.

while i'm still making some bank by shorting stocks, more of my portfolio is devoted to etf's, value stocks, and stable high dividend stocks.

6/4/2006 8:17:41 PM

do you guys really think it's smart to be trading penny stocks like this?

6/4/2006 8:20:19 PM

it's not the backbone of their investments

just a little white collar gambling on the side

6/4/2006 9:06:30 PM

How much are you guys trading with and how much are you making? Lot of big talking in this thread, time to back it up.

6/5/2006 9:06:42 AM

Actually, I would argue that there's been very little big talking in this thread, just folks discussing investment strategies, company fundamentals, and other investment related topics.

6/5/2006 9:49:39 AM

Quote :

"How much are you guys trading with and how much are you making? Lot of big talking in this thread, time to back it up."

he's right we need someone to develop the scottrade/ameritrade/etrade confirmation parser and the website to manage that info

6/5/2006 9:54:40 AM

how much?

Quote :

"about half of my non retirement money is in the markets. the other half is in cash, with the intention of saving up for a home and expenses for other life events. of the bit that is in the markets, a 1/4 is very high risk stocks, and the other 3/4 is at market risk."

6/5/2006 10:03:35 AM

I agree, not alot of big talking. And don't expect me to lay out my personal financial information on a college message board.

6/5/2006 10:05:29 AM

btw, for the year i'm up about 10-12% overall, with the high risk portion down about 15-20%

6/5/2006 10:22:28 AM