But he was going to hire the best people, right? Right?

9/6/2018 11:01:24 AM

Quote :

"They're undermining a sitting president, no matter how batshit crazy he is."

jesus

9/6/2018 11:11:18 AM

it's a valid point, there is a constitutional process for when the president is crazy, undermining the president is not it. what the op-ed described is essentially a civilian junta which should be particularly scary when you consider that republicans currently have complete control of both houses of congress.

9/6/2018 11:23:41 AM

^^Tell me what is wrong with my comment?

Are you promoting treasonous behavior here simply because you don't like the president?

Again - this civilian was not elected. We don't even know who he is. What if this were someone who had ill intent toward some other country, who maybe wanted to war with said country, and manipulated the president into signing some BS document that somehow eventually led to war?

There is no way you can paint what this person is as good.

I can only hope that it is a complete fabrication on the part of the NYT.

9/6/2018 11:36:46 AM

with every other president, I 100% agree

but not with this asshole. undermine away.

9/6/2018 11:37:23 AM

It’s tough because in almost every other circumstance I’d agree that op-ed is disgusting and if you have those suspicions and they are valid there are constitutional means to remove a president. It’s patently obvious he has no business being in office.

The problem is we don’t have a functioning Congress anymore and without that the Consitution is simple broken.

I don’t have a good solution except to pray that somehow we get some checks and balances elected come November.

9/6/2018 11:42:37 AM

Quote :

"but not with this asshole. undermine away."

"undermine" in the current context means implementing everything trump wants, but is too incompetent to handle himself.

there is no functional difference between trump and whoever wrote the op-ed. it's all aesthetics.

[Edited on September 6, 2018 at 11:44 AM. Reason : .]

9/6/2018 11:43:54 AM

^^^You just can't pick and choose. It is a slippery slope that we don't want to slide down.

9/6/2018 11:47:42 AM

of course it’s all aesthetics. I’m just not miffed at it being published like others are.

Quote :

"The problem is we don’t have a functioning Congress anymore and without that the Consitution is simple broken. I don’t have a good solution except to pray that somehow we get some checks and balances elected come November."

exactly

9/6/2018 11:48:59 AM

What if it doesn't happen? What if this blue wave doesn't come and wash over the country, and we're stuck in the same situation.

Are you going to openly advocate for treason?

9/6/2018 11:53:22 AM

treason is good

9/6/2018 11:56:25 AM

[Edited on September 6, 2018 at 11:58 AM. Reason : i think i misunderstood yhe discussion?]

9/6/2018 11:57:10 AM

So does Omarosa have any more tapes or not?

9/6/2018 11:59:34 AM

basically all the op-ed said is "we wish we could keep doing these things without anyone drawing so much attention to us and being embarrassing on twitter." the author deserves no respect

but that doesn't mean that it's not a constitutional crisis that we have a president who's senior officials agree is unfit for office and who are working against him instead of taking constitutional actions to remove him. if they actually gave a shit and this op-ed was serious, they would be running to congress to testify or getting together with the VP and other cabinet leaders to draft a declaration that trump is unable to discharge his duties.

it's terrifying that any liberal would be okay with unelected republicans effectively taking over control of the executive branch, especially when we have a rubber stamping republican majority legislative branch who is currently pushing through another conservative judge (with troubled positions on the powers of the executive branch) to the judicial branch

[Edited on September 6, 2018 at 12:05 PM. Reason : .]

9/6/2018 12:03:04 PM

Writing an op-ed is basically treason?

Does anyone, anywhere and on any side know what treason is?

I’m going to get the marshal of the Supreme Court in here if people don’t shape up.

9/6/2018 12:05:37 PM

I DECLARE TREASON

9/6/2018 12:14:24 PM

^^ i think only rjrumfel thinks this has anything to do with treason

9/6/2018 12:19:14 PM

How hard do you think it would be to convince trump that the OpEd writer and friends are all Koch plants and plan on invoking the 25th the moment Kavenaugh is confirmed and get him to repeal nomination?

9/6/2018 12:24:17 PM

no need, i think trump is just going to seek political asylum in NK

Quote :

"Donald J. Trump ? Verified account @realDonaldTrump Kim Jong Un of North Korea proclaims “unwavering faith in President Trump.” Thank you to Chairman Kim. We will get it done together!"

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1037656324010663937

9/6/2018 12:35:36 PM

I don't think invocation of the 25th amendment would be a crisis. It's a legal and precise procedure for removing a retarded president. It would either work or it wouldn't and then the entire cabinet would be fired. Then we would be looking at impeachment, another legal a d precise process. Referencing this as a coup of any sort is dramatic in my opinion. If impeachment doesn't happen then the voters can vote in new representatives who will impeach.

[Edited on September 6, 2018 at 1:01 PM. Reason : A]

9/6/2018 12:58:48 PM

The responses here (to Melania's 'response' to the op-ed) are golden!

https://twitter.com/KateBennett_DC/status/1037738628351512581

9/6/2018 1:32:17 PM

^^ it wouldn’t be a legal crisis, but I can see it being a societal crisis.

9/6/2018 3:41:38 PM

I can agree with that for sure

9/6/2018 6:03:11 PM

Quote :

"with every other president, I 100% agree but not with this asshole. undermine away."

it's a precedent, though. like many norms shattered by this administration, it'll be tough to put it back in the box.

it may be the least bad option, but i wouldn't minimize the gravity of what's happening.

Quote :

"This is nothing more than a message to the non-crazy midterm voters to vote Republican and not worry about trump because they're still moving the agenda forward and there are senior members in his administration to control him, nothing more. It's not a resistance or any of that bullshit. The author knows that Trump is unfit and is complicit in keeping him in office. "

yeah i thought about that, too. maybe.

on the other hand, saying "Even we--HIS OWN PEOPLE--are saying that it's even worse than you thought"--is hardly a case for standing by your man.

9/6/2018 7:58:05 PM

Guiliani sayinG trump won’t even answer the written questions Mueller has for him

Trump at a rally tonight telling his supporters if he gets impeached it’s THEIR fault for not voting. Wow.

9/6/2018 10:00:39 PM

LOL @ him trying to blame voters if he gets impeached

9/6/2018 10:56:37 PM

Anomynous
https://twitter.com/LeviGibian/status/1037886447037112321

9/7/2018 9:20:59 AM

^^,^^^

Translating I get:

If you don't get out and vote the Democrats may win elections and if they win they will make up things to get me impeached.

It's psychological projection, just about the only thing Trump excels at. All he knows is that there are bad things happening around him and that they can't possibly be the results of any actions he's taken, he's perfect. So it becomes the evil Democrats and their witch hunt, the liberal media, the voters. At the core of it all it's only him trying to protect his ego.

But he's a cult leader now. His followers eat it up.

9/8/2018 9:15:26 AM

Quote :

"“This man has fought—in more ways than one—for your state,” President Trump said about Montana’s Republican U.S. Rep. Greg Gianforte in a speech there Thursday. “He is a fighter and a winner.” This was an unmistakable reference to Gianforte body-slamming reporter Ben Jacobs of the Guardian the day before the Montana special election last year. “Gianforte grabbed Jacobs by the neck with both hands and slammed him into the ground behind him,” according to a Fox News reporter who witnessed it. "

https://slate.trib.al/GTg37QW

9/8/2018 9:45:12 AM

Quote :

"t's a valid point, there is a constitutional process for when the president is crazy, undermining the president is not it. what the op-ed described is essentially a civilian junta"

This is true, and it's unconstitutional. The question is whether or not it is actually bad.

Well, OK, obviously's it's bad in the sense that we would rather have a sane normal president with a human brain running the government. But what we have is a shaved overfed orangutan hurling feces. Given the choice, I believe I am just about willing to take the "cabal of un-elected bureaucrats."

It is possible to view the Trump problem in a way that is largely divorced from ideology, and perhaps that is the approach to take here. From this perspective, the greatest threat he poses is an existential one to the country itself. Left entirely to his own devices, Trump seems willing to cut America off from alliances and international trade, trigger constitutional crises, and undermine all the pillars of civil society. The catastrophic results of these and other behaviors could leave us so weakened and divided that we are unable to recover even after he exits the stage. In the best case, we would be rebuilding for years, and such niceties as Constitutional order might again take a back seat to the exigencies of economic crisis. In the worst case, we could be ripe pickings for civil war or foreign domination, if not, perhaps, outright conquest.

If we take that view, then perhaps this civilian junta is the best defense of the Constitution and rule of law in the long run: we sacrifice them to the junta now so that they might be restored in two years, as opposed to sacrificing them Trump now and instability and decline thereafter.

Because I do not believe, for example, this:

Quote :

"if they actually gave a shit and this op-ed was serious, they would be running to congress to testify or getting together with the VP and other cabinet leaders to draft a declaration that trump is unable to discharge his duties. "

Testifying to Congress will accomplish nothing. The party in power is spineless and impotent. There is nothing that Trump could do that would turn them against him; the only thing that can embolden to do so would be for the Republican electorate to do so first. The electorate will not turn against him until Fox News (inter alia) abandons him. And Fox News stands to gain too much by nurturing their symbiotic relationship with the executive.

The Op-Ed seems to suggest that the author was party to discussions about the 25th, and that they didn't go anywhere. That's a pity - or maybe it isn't. Invoking 25 would ultimately require Congress to get involved - Trump is hardly going to go quietly. It's possible that this opening would stiffen the resolve of saner Republican legislators, but I'm not convinced of it. Meanwhile, his supporters would absolutely be rioting in the streets. And if Congress decided against him, I have no faith that Trump would consider their decision valid. He would refuse to leave. And there is your Constitutional crisis - if not, God forbid, your civil war.

9/9/2018 11:23:51 AM

lol, there isn't going to be a civil war if trump's cabinet decides he's unfit for office, how can anyone take you seriously if you even consider that as an option?

9/9/2018 12:59:35 PM

Most Republicans held their noses and voted for Trump, sure there are plenty of diehard Trump supporters but most Republicans wouldn’t care as long as another R was running the show. Considering all Democrats hate Trump and I’d wager that a majority of Republicans wouldn’t care if he was swapped out for Pence the idea of a civil war over Trump being thrown out of office is asinine. Sure you’d probably get some neck beard basement dwelling incels doing things like going into pizza parlors with a rifle but nothing on the scale of a civil war would come close to happening.

9/9/2018 2:07:00 PM

Quote :

"how can anyone take you seriously if you even consider that as an option?"

I think it is a fringe option, as I made clear to even the meanest human understanding - but of course, I am on the internet, and should set my sights lower.

We've never come close to the 25th Amendment being invoked in this way. We've never asked the military to accept the replacement of a commander in chief by Congress, still less the cabinet. The situation is completely without precedent, and it centers on a man with demonstrated lack of regard for the rule of law or decisions that go against him. You'd be removing a president over his wishes and those of a sizable minority of Americans who voted for him.

I think it's childish not to at least entertain the possibility that mixing all of these combustible elements together could have explosive results.

It's true, too, that "civil war" doesn't have to mean four years of state-on-state fighting as recounted by Ken Burns. Such a name could be applied to a much briefer, more contained, even much less violent conflict.

But, more importantly, even if the process of removal went quite peacefully and smoothly, you'd have a significant percentage of the electorate who felt that their duly counted votes had been overruled by un-elected cabinet members and "the deep state," who will no longer have any respect for this government or the Constitution. And that is a problem.

Meanwhile, the whole 25th amendment case seems to be based on the fact that Trump is stupid and impulsive. So are most of the people who voted for him. Why would they find it to be grounds for removal?

There's a lot wrong with the 25th being employed here, as much as I want to cling to any legal means that removes Donald Trump from office. It doesn't fly. The grounds are shaky, the odds of it working effectively nil, and the consequences would be bad - up to and including, yes, actual fighting.

[Edited on September 9, 2018 at 3:37 PM. Reason : odds also close to nil]

9/9/2018 3:35:59 PM

Quote :

"Sure you’d probably get some neck beard basement dwelling incels doing things like going into pizza parlors with a rifle but nothing on the scale of a civil war would come close to happening."

You'll see attacks that put the Oklahoma City bombing to shame if Trump gets pushed out by establishment politicians on either side. Don't delude yourself into thinking that just because you want him gone that everyone does.

9/9/2018 9:41:03 PM

Quote :

"You'll see attacks that put the Oklahoma City bombing to shame if Trump gets pushed out"

Awesome fear mongering!!!!!!!!

Quote :

". Don't delude yourself into thinking that just because you want him gone that everyone does"

Great strawman too!

9/9/2018 10:04:32 PM

https://youtu.be/k8TwRmX6zs4

Kinda surreal to look back on this video

9/10/2018 12:29:23 AM

#neverforget that trump bragged that his building was the tallest in manhattan after the twin towers collapsed

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/09/11/listen_to_trump_brag_on_9_11_that_his_building_was_now_the_tallest.html

trump did 9/11

9/11/2018 7:56:46 AM

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-bizarre-quotes-911-attacks-tallest-building-higher-ratings-muslims-cheering-george-w-a8530571.html (not nearly an exhaustive list)

9/11/2018 12:14:29 PM

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/mbwj54/this-is-the-president-on-911-vgtrn






[Edited on September 11, 2018 at 3:22 PM. Reason : ]

9/11/2018 3:20:26 PM

Steve Holt!

9/11/2018 10:14:13 PM

Started reading Fear today. Nothing any more earth-shattering than the excerpts that had already been leaked, so far...but I'm only 2 work commutes into it on Audible (about 1-1.5 hours).

Basically, it pretty much confirms a similar picture of a wildly incompetent, impulsive, mercurial fuckstick, as painted in Fire & Fury and every other account.

9/11/2018 10:17:31 PM

Have you read any of his other books? I start my copy tomorrow on the train in.

9/12/2018 12:34:58 AM

fucking asshole said today that puerto rico rescue/help during the hurricanes last year was the best job ever done in that regard.

fuck the 3,000 dead people and the fact that they had no running water nor electricity for 6 months.

oh wait, maybe the barbarian was referring to the paper towel rolls he was cruelly throwing at survivors when he went there... yeah, those paper towels are what made it the best rescue job ever in history.

Quote :

"President Trump says federal gov’t is "ready" for Hurricane Florence, and reflects on what he describes as "incredibly successful" response to Puerto Rico hurricane disasters in 2017 – “one of the best jobs that’s ever been done.”"

https://www.facebook.com/msnbc/videos/2104432652922485

9/12/2018 1:50:41 PM

If you're gonna post something like that ^ make it funny:

http://www.breakingburgh.com/nation-says-goodbye-carolinas-trump-says-disaster-response-will-successful-puerto-rico/

9/12/2018 2:09:36 PM

Inject the coming Trump tweet about Reddit removing the QAnon subreddit in to my veins nowww!

9/12/2018 3:10:53 PM

t_d gets violates the same rules, ban them too

9/12/2018 3:47:25 PM

he really does sound like he's got dementia/Alzheimer's at this point. The dentures sticking to his mouth, along with his haggard and disheveled appearance make him look like some sad, pathetic geriatric at a nursing home nobody comes to visit anymore because he's an abusive dickhead.

he has aged HORRIBLY in the last 18 months

9/12/2018 8:31:54 PM

What even is going on?

9/13/2018 8:52:53 AM

well apparently the deaths in PR from Maria were a false flag by democrats to make the president look bad

9/13/2018 9:09:26 AM

And he raised and donated BILLIONS!

9/13/2018 9:43:55 AM