Quote :

"^^while that's really apples and oranges, how many women do you think will be okay with former men using using the same bathrooms and locker rooms? I'd be willing to bet that a decent percentage would be pretty uncomfortable with it. Are you speaking for the majority of women when you say that people shouldn't worry about the bathroom situation?"

just like how people were uncomfortable with black people using white restrooms? why should they be uncomfortable? rape? there are a fuckton more lesbians than trans people.

6/10/2015 2:18:26 PM

no, it's not really the same thing at all.

and i'm not saying whether women should or shouldn't be uncomfortable with it, i'm just betting that a good percentage of women would be uncomfortable with it, and who are you to tell them they shouldn't be?

[Edited on June 10, 2015 at 2:21 PM. Reason : ]

6/10/2015 2:20:22 PM

^^
I'm not saying having a transgender person in a bathroom would make me uncomforrtable, but...

the whole point of having male/female bathrooms is to segregate by GENDER, not race. so when you allow people of a different gender in the other's gender's bathroom, you're violating the whole principle of bathroom segregation.

race isn't remotely the same. we have male/female bathrooms because men and women have different private parts, and it's considered improper for them to use those parts in the present of strangers of the oppose gender.

6/10/2015 2:22:50 PM

Quote :

"that's not what I said...I haven't expressed any stance, and I really don't care if they go in female bathrooms, provided they have vaginas or at least are outwardly indistinguishable from women"

There are tons of biological women out there who look like men. Who will be the judge?

6/10/2015 2:23:39 PM

please explain to me why its improper for a trans women to use a stall in a women's bathroom, and why it should make any woman uncomfortable for reasons outside of bigotry or unfamiliarity with trans people

6/10/2015 2:25:32 PM

Quote :

"you obviously know nothing about me, most conservatives on here would call me a "liberal""

I just made a cynical remark about you hanging out with some sports radio gossip loser. Also my profile says I'm 5.

^This.

[Edited on June 10, 2015 at 2:34 PM. Reason : l]

6/10/2015 2:27:02 PM

^^^
it's awfully rare that I run into a biological woman that I genuinely can't identify as a woman

transgenders should do their part...if you're gonna go into the women's bathroom, then be courteous and look like a woman.

and no, there's no hard-and-fast way of judging it. but so what? just don't be a dick about it, do your part. that's how lots of things work.

6/10/2015 2:28:01 PM

if someone acts inappropriate in a bathroom, you call the cops on them for doing so

that's always been the case, regardless of gender

inappropriate is inappropriate

6/10/2015 2:28:36 PM

^^^^i'm just betting a good percentage of women would be uncomfortable with it. and betting an even higher percentage would be uncomfortable sharing a locker room with a person who used to be a man. and i don't think you, as a straight guy, are any any position to tell them they shouldn't be (i'd really have no problem sharing a bathroom with someone who used to be a woman, but that's just me)

^^^dude, go away, you're not funny or clever.

[Edited on June 10, 2015 at 2:30 PM. Reason : ]

6/10/2015 2:29:26 PM

Yea Bullet calls me out all the time for my shit.

6/10/2015 2:30:00 PM

Quote :

"^^^^i'm just betting a good percentage of somen would be uncomfortable with it. and betting an even higher percentage would be uncomfortable sharing a locker room with a person who used to be a man. and i don't think you, as a straight guy, are any any position to tell them they shouldn't be."

You didn't answer my question. Also: what were the reasons for racial segregation? Answer both questions and you might understand where I'm coming from.

6/10/2015 2:32:53 PM

^
dude, sometimes things are just aesthetically creepy

like fucking your sister, for example. can you explain why you don't want to do that? same idea. it's not just empty bigotry, it's a lifetime of conditioning and very likely genes as well.

6/10/2015 2:34:54 PM

Quote :

"then be courteous and look like a woman."

Hahahahahaha.

6/10/2015 2:36:25 PM

^^^i didn't answer your question because i'm not going to speak for women. I, myself, as a straight guy, wouldn't have an issue with it, but bet more women would have an issue with it than men would.

the reason for racial segregation was racists who didn't want to be near sub-human blacks. it's not the same thing as having separate restrooms for men and women. are you suggesting that bathrooms and locker rooms shouldn't be genderly segregated?

[Edited on June 10, 2015 at 2:39 PM. Reason : ]

6/10/2015 2:38:23 PM

So glad I got the hell out of Raleigh and away from this Buffalo Wild Wing, douchey Charlotte-reject crowd...

[Edited on June 10, 2015 at 2:41 PM. Reason : k]

6/10/2015 2:40:24 PM

^^^^
lol that's exactly what empty bigotry is. Its in our nature to distrust groups of people we aren't familiar with.

^^
Your first point is laughable. You refuse to answer the question because you don't have a good answer. Empty bigotry.

Second point: segregation happened partly because of sexual fears, partly because black people were seen as subhuman...do you still not see the similarities? What is your fear?

[Edited on June 10, 2015 at 2:48 PM. Reason : .]

6/10/2015 2:43:52 PM

^^sweet name-calling bro, it really shows how much smarter and superior you are.

Quote :

"Your first point is a laughable"

cool, care to explain why?

and i'm not sure how to be any clearer., but you can check my posts from the beginning of this thread: i don't have any fears about this.

V tww is actually pretty liberal. check wral if you want to see some actually terrifying points of view.

[Edited on June 10, 2015 at 2:47 PM. Reason : ]

6/10/2015 2:44:03 PM

sometimes I worry that living in liberal mecca commie land, aka the Bay Area, has led to me being out of touch with mainstream America. good thing for TWW. it's a pretty solid reminder of how the rest of America thinks, and it's pretty terrifying.

[Edited on June 10, 2015 at 2:45 PM. Reason : .]

6/10/2015 2:44:57 PM

^^
But you're speaking for women and saying they have fears. So what are they? Do you think these women are incapable of rationalizing through those fears?

6/10/2015 2:47:16 PM

race issues are different.

reality = I'm black, but I should be allowed to use the white's only bathroom
non-reality = I feel like a woman, so I should be allowed to use the women's bathroom

the racial equivalent would be "I feel like a white person, so I should be allowed to use the white's only bathroom" which is just crazy talk!

one exists in a single person's head, while another exists as physical truth

while we're at it, let's just allow other mental illnesses to just "pass". That person is not ADHD, that's just how he or she is wired! That kid isn't autistic, he or she is just naturally non-verbal and violent!

also, let's eliminate gender based pronouns because who is to say what makes a he or she anymore? rewrite all of the books! "he or she" is no longer adequate to describe the gender spectrum!

6/10/2015 2:48:10 PM

Quote :

"lol that's exactly what empty bigotry is. Its in our nature to distrust groups of people we aren't familiar with. "

hey, serious question...if your sister says "Fuck me," and you say "Gross, I'm not going to fuck you, you're my sister," what's your rationale? Isn't that just a prejudice against incest, because it's unfamiliar and frowned upon by society?

6/10/2015 2:48:39 PM

Quote :

"But you're speaking for women and saying they have fears. So what are they? "

the same fears they would have if a man was in the locker room with them? i'm just guessing. do you disagree? do you think most women wouldn't care?

[Edited on June 10, 2015 at 2:51 PM. Reason : ]

6/10/2015 2:50:37 PM

Quote :

"sometimes I worry that living in liberal mecca commie land, aka the Bay Area, has led to me being out of touch with mainstream America. good thing for TWW. it's a pretty solid reminder of how the rest of America thinks, and it's pretty terrifying."

You have to remember that the majority of Americans either don't take time/have time to think about this stuff until it's thrown in their face, or just don't have the capacity to understand it. I believe there's a nice blend of both with the opposition in here, but you're right. It's eye-opening for sure.

6/10/2015 2:53:36 PM

I mean, TWW has gotten slightly better over the years. I'd like to think it's just because people have grown up and matured or faced the times. I would argue that it's more presence of a newer millennial user base, but that's just absurd

6/10/2015 2:55:29 PM

afripino:
Mental illnesses are physical realities.

And if you consider trans people to be mentally ill (I consider it a trait, just like being gay), what is your proposed alternative? Confine them to a mental hospital? There is no way to force someone to conform to a gender role, which is why we provide them with avenues for fitting into society.

jeffrey:
Incest is well known to cause birth defects. Outside of that, I have no problem if people want to fuck their siblings. I don't have a sister.

Bullet:
New York and California have had laws that anyone can use any bathroom for years now. Where is the outrage?

6/10/2015 2:56:12 PM

Quote :

"one exists in a single person's head, while another exists as physical truth"

Exactly. It is awful that someone is born with a disorder that makes them identify as a different sex, but surgery and hormone pills change nothing. The sex change surgery is a CHOICE. Handicap people don't self-identify as cripples and choose to use a wheel chair.

6/10/2015 2:56:24 PM

Being gay is not a choice. Marrying the same sex is a choice.

6/10/2015 2:58:22 PM

Being handicapped is not a choice. Wearing a prosthetic is a choice.

6/10/2015 2:59:07 PM

Quote :

"(I consider it a trait, just like being gay)"

I consider disorders/illnesses undesirable traits.

[Edited on June 10, 2015 at 3:00 PM. Reason : .]

6/10/2015 3:00:01 PM

Quote :

"Where is the outrage?"

I don't know, should I be outraged? Because I'm not. Again, you (and clifton and ujustwait and others) seem to want to generalize anybody that has questions about this as fanatical inbred assholes who want to heckle and beat transgender people and deny them their civil rights, when that is simply is not the case.

6/10/2015 3:00:16 PM

and wearing a prosthetic doesn't make them not handicapped just like having surgery doesn't make someone not a man / woman

6/10/2015 3:00:38 PM

Quote :

"Outside of that, I have no problem if people want to fuck their siblings. I don't have a sister."

cool. because your position seems to be that any objection to someone's behavior that's purely aesthetic, that can't be justified on the basis of the behavior's causing harm, is invalid. so don't complain about anybody's doing anything , as long as it's not hurting anyone.

if that's your view, I happen to disagree with you (I think it's justifiable to protest against certain behavior from a purely aesthetic standpoint) but at least you're consistent.

6/10/2015 3:01:26 PM

Quote :

"I don't know, should I be outraged? Because I'm not. Again, you (and clifton and ujustwait and others) seem to want to generalize anybody that has questions about this as fanatical inbred assholes who want to heckle and beat transgender people and deny them their civil rights, when that is simply is not the case."

Because your questions have been answered. And still, you're repeating the same vague lines about protecting women that you were before. Which makes you a bigot, albeit a minor one.

^fair enough, but that makes you a bigot as well, and you must realize that its the same as being racist because you don't like how black people look

[Edited on June 10, 2015 at 3:06 PM. Reason : .]

6/10/2015 3:03:58 PM

hey, there's a difference between viewing somebody as inferior (bigotry) and not wanting them around when you're taking a shit (which is how I happen to feel about women, incidentally).

is that bigotry? that I don't want a biological woman in the stall next to me while I'm taking a shit? because it'd make me uncomfortable, sorry.

btw I mean a normal woman who looks like a woman, not a woman-to-man trans


[Edited on June 10, 2015 at 3:06 PM. Reason : ereh]

6/10/2015 3:06:01 PM

Can we get back to just what exactly the fuck this means?

Quote :

"then be courteous and look like a woman."

6/10/2015 3:09:28 PM

Well fuck dude, it makes me uncomfortable when old dudes at my work take massive loud shits next to me. But I deal.

6/10/2015 3:09:44 PM

is it bigotry, though?

also, there's such a thing as laws designed to prevent people from making other people uncomfortable.

for examples, laws against walking around naked in public.

admittedly, that's different though

[Edited on June 10, 2015 at 3:11 PM. Reason : erge]

6/10/2015 3:11:02 PM

Tell me how you expect women to look.

6/10/2015 3:12:09 PM

Also those laws are ridiculous and don't exist in more socially advanced countries.

6/10/2015 3:12:10 PM

^^
I'm not responding to you because you're rude, and I don't like you.

6/10/2015 3:12:41 PM

Quote :

"Well fuck dude, it makes me uncomfortable when old dudes at my work take massive loud shits next to me. But I deal."

Do they self-identify as old though? You're such an ageist.

6/10/2015 3:12:42 PM

Quote :

"is it bigotry, though?"

its not bigotry that it makes you uncomfortable. You can't help that. Its bigotry because you want them to suffer because of your discomfort, which you will get over after exposure.

6/10/2015 3:14:09 PM

I'm not the poster who I quoted as having an expectation of how a woman looks. You're not responding to me because you know what you said was absolutely ridiculous and serves as a nice expose of shit you truly believe. From the 1950s...

6/10/2015 3:14:22 PM

Quote :

"Also those laws are ridiculous and don't exist in more socially advanced countries."

wait, though...most socially advanced countries DO have laws (or at least well-nigh-universal conventions) that segregate men and women in bathrooms.

and laws against walking around naked in public (which, after all, doesn't hurt anyone. except maybe children, I guess you could base your objection to this around childen. but other than that, what's the objection?)

6/10/2015 3:14:54 PM

what about pedophilia, you people cool with that too, while we're accepting people for how they feel they should live their lives?

[Edited on June 10, 2015 at 3:17 PM. Reason : I expect women to look like Caitlyn Jenner because that's apparently what passes as woman these days]

6/10/2015 3:15:48 PM

Quote :

"And still, you're repeating the same vague lines about protecting women that you were before. "

there you go again. I'm not trying to "protect women". I personally don't have a problem with it. I'm simply discussing a social issue on a message board, and by discussing it, and pondering that some women may have an issue with peeing or showering beside former men, you leap to the conclusion that you think I'm against transgender people because i'm trying to protect women, and therefore i'm a bigot? Jeez dude, you're something else.

[Edited on June 10, 2015 at 3:20 PM. Reason : ]

6/10/2015 3:16:25 PM

Quote :

"I don't know, should I be outraged? Because I'm not. Again, you (and clifton and ujustwait and others) seem to want to generalize anybody that has questions about this as fanatical inbred assholes who want to heckle and beat transgender people and deny them their civil rights, when that is simply is not the case. "

that's not it at all, actually. we keep bringing up facts/science and you want us to be more understanding of yours and others' personal feelings as if they trump the people who actually have to deal with being uncomfortable on an almost 24/7 basis. oh noes! somebody is uncomfortable!!1 it's the total lack of empathy for the person with the hard life that irritates me. it's fine if you don't completely understand it. nobody says you have to. but you should at least TRY...

it makes me uncomfortable to see bums/homeless everywhere i look in SF. that doesn't trump their right to exist though. it's a sad situation and i feel bad for them, but i move on and try to remember that however annoying it is to have to side-step piles of human shit or to hold my breath because of the stench of urine, they're people too. i have to remind myself that empathy and compassion are probably the only things that might have the potential to help them, if they're even capable of being helped at all. shaming them and telling them to get a job, or voicing my discomfort isn't going to do jack shit.

[Edited on June 10, 2015 at 3:24 PM. Reason : .]

6/10/2015 3:20:13 PM

LETS COMPARE CHILD PREDATORS TO CONSENTING ADULTS

goes up there with the "what's next, marrying dogs?" thing.

Wait, how has the Bible not been mentioned yet in here?

6/10/2015 3:20:56 PM

^^holy fuck, i've never said i was uncomfortable with it, i've said the opposite. for such an enlightened individual, your reading comprehension sucks.

[Edited on June 10, 2015 at 3:21 PM. Reason : ]

6/10/2015 3:21:15 PM

^^^^Because it's a fucking stupid thing to go on and on about when you have no legitimate points, and detracts from the issue. And from mine and others' views, it makes you look like you have an underlying prejudice.

[Edited on June 10, 2015 at 3:21 PM. Reason : .]

6/10/2015 3:21:26 PM