Quote :

"So we think he’s going after USAID due to their involvement with the end of Aparthied…"

This guy outlines the attacks on Trump that USAID facilitated. Trump has an ax to grind about it:

https://x.com/MikeBenzCyber/status/1886312537995501909

Also this:
https://www.marshall.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sen-marshall-leads-effort-demanding-usaid-ceases-ecohealth-alliance-funding/

[Edited on February 3, 2025 at 1:51 PM. Reason : A]

2/3/2025 1:44:15 PM

^ the first link doesn’t make sense because trump already controls the state dept and embassy responsible for that.

The second reason is just dumb

The net effect still though is a weaker American footprint across the globe. More opportunities for China and Russia…. Maybe this is trumps negotiating strategy? Preemptively concede spheres of influence to end the Ukraine war ?

The simplest explanation is Elon musk is a madman and this is part of his Quixotic quest

2/3/2025 2:22:39 PM

Quote :

"^ the first link doesn’t make sense because trump already controls the state dept and embassy responsible for that."

Then why did it go after his ass with the burning rage of a thousand suns the first term?

[Edited on February 3, 2025 at 3:52 PM. Reason : A]

2/3/2025 3:35:06 PM

Thats the inherent problem with trump

He’s a rapist and felon that should be in jail

We shouldn’t be dealing with him destroying government as vengeance and to shield from future accountability

2/3/2025 8:15:25 PM

"mainstream media" is finally reporting on this

https://www.npr.org/2025/02/03/nx-s1-5285539/doge-musk-usaid-trump

2/4/2025 1:47:33 PM

Quote :

"@raskin.house.gov: "This is a coup, which is a seizure of state power by unelected actors... In addition to everything that Trump is doing to dismantle every part of gov’t that doesn't profit him personally, we have this additional problem of Elon Musk trying to consolidate state power under him.""

2/4/2025 9:09:26 PM

https://defector.com/billionaire-dipshit-and-his-strike-team-of-greasy-beavises-are-stripping-the-wires-from-the-federal-government?giftLink=2c3150ce2759e1b7b7a666aa548b9675

2/5/2025 3:41:20 PM

https://newrepublic.com/article/191141/musk-government-takeover-supreme-court

2/5/2025 7:49:04 PM

How much longer til this guy flies too close to the sun. And then like him and trump are enemies etc

2/5/2025 9:19:33 PM

People in comments on social media were remarking he had his human shield with him in the oval office press conference in reference to his son.

I thought they meant he is trying to soften his image by having his son there and pretending he is a good father.

But then I really understood what they meant when some other comments said he was trying to prevent being "Luigi'd".

Wow.

I don't know if that's his intention or not, but it does make sense. However, what I thought they meant is definitely true. He brought his son to use as eye candy, to not be seen as the horrible genocide-supporting denizen of hell he is.

2/12/2025 9:33:46 AM

I guess that would prevent him from being hit in the knee-caps.

2/12/2025 10:38:13 AM

https://twitter.com/SwipeWright/status/1889731684956041539

2/12/2025 7:13:27 PM

Oh, so they struggle trying to break through cult-like thought processes?

2/12/2025 7:57:06 PM

Not technically a Nazi, just an American style white supremacist

2/12/2025 8:59:55 PM

i still don't think that's an accurate assessment.

[Edited on February 12, 2025 at 10:18 PM. Reason : cult-like thought processes is more of a red maga thing.]

[Edited on February 12, 2025 at 10:19 PM. Reason : blue maga has no cult leader, it's mostly anxiety and fear based conspiracy thinking.]

[Edited on February 12, 2025 at 10:19 PM. Reason : which ironically and tragically is also usually more of a red team thing.]

[Edited on February 12, 2025 at 10:20 PM. Reason : guess we're all only human after all]

2/12/2025 10:18:03 PM

What criteria would you need to see?

Is the doge employee who said he’s an immigration eugenicist who wants to normalize Indian hate, who would kill himself before dating outside his race, a white supremacist?

2/12/2025 11:31:13 PM

I think people are focusing on the word "nazi" too much. Both the people using it and the people criticizing them for using it. Semantics.

Quote :

"The fact that Democrats are fighting the first real effort to root out waste, fraud, and abuse from our government is a very bad look, from which one can only draw a negative inference. "

And this is just repeating the admin's disengenous attack... most dems (and the judges) aren't against rooting out waste, fraud and abuse. It's the way it's being done (and who's doing it).

[Edited on February 13, 2025 at 10:59 AM. Reason : ]

2/13/2025 10:44:07 AM

dems should have tried harder to right the ship when they had the chance

2/13/2025 11:07:25 AM

^^
Doctor: You have cancer. You need surgery to remove it
Patient: OK, let's go. Wait... hold up. Why do you have a chainsaw?
Doctor: Don't you want to get rid of your cancer?

2/13/2025 12:38:47 PM

^ similar analogy to Hama putting rocket launchers in Gaza. They put all these good things interspersed with fraud and waste so they can point to the good stuff when the bad is threatened.

It's already metastisized. Hopefully in the analogy it's several patients and not the whole government and only a few of them die by chainsaw.

2/13/2025 12:57:18 PM

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/mark-rylance-elon-musk-dont-look-up-b2012928.html

I think this kind of sums up his mindset

Outside of all this, I do like Elon Musk's 'collection'. Tesla, SpaceX, Starlink, and X. all fits within the same sort of vision

2/13/2025 1:15:34 PM

Quote :

"similar analogy to Hama putting rocket launchers in Gaza. They put all these good things interspersed with fraud and waste so they can point to the good stuff when the bad is threatened."

yup. the discourse these days leans so heavily on buzzwords to do the heavy lifting and just ends up being emotional reactions to words. people end up just adopting lazy and unnuanced analyses of these important issues.

2/13/2025 1:34:51 PM

https://www.wral.com/story/tressie-mcmillan-cottom-look-past-elon-musk-s-chaos-there-s-something-more-sinister-at-work/21857741/

2/13/2025 2:25:57 PM

that article is a perfect example of

Quote :

"the discourse these days leans so heavily on buzzwords to do the heavy lifting and just ends up being emotional reactions to words. people end up just adopting lazy and unnuanced analyses of these important issues."

chaos
sinister
questionably legal
extragovernmental
dismantle
demoralize
captured
operatives
infiltrated
gained access
locked workers out
strong-armed
halting humanitarian work
slash essential research budgets
Consumer Financial Protection
in their sights
chaotic
a brutal week for democracy
takeover
unprecedented overreach of power
etc

there are real and important issues here, but because the #Resistance insists on (over)reacting with buzzwords, there's no room left for nuance.

[Edited on February 13, 2025 at 2:38 PM. Reason : 90% vibes, 10% substance.]

2/13/2025 2:32:36 PM

^ LLM analysis of same article:

Quote :

"This article employs several political tactics and rhetorical strategies, including framing, unbalanced positioning, vague or misleading arguments, and narrative techniques. Here’s a breakdown: 1. Political Tactics Used Framing: The article positions Elon Musk as a key enabler of an authoritarian takeover by Donald Trump. It consistently refers to his actions as chaotic, manipulative, and destructive, setting the stage for a negative perception. Emotional Appeal: The author frequently uses emotionally charged language, such as "sinister," "chaos," "wrecking machine," and "gamified smash-and-grab antics," to provoke fear and urgency in the reader. Demonization: Musk and Trump are portrayed as a duo working together to dismantle democracy. Their actions are compared to criminal enterprises, which places them in a morally evil light. Call to Action: The article argues that Democrats must stop merely pointing out hypocrisy and instead take direct action, reinforcing political mobilization. Straw Man Argument: The idea that Musk is "storming" bureaucratic offices as if they were Waterloo is an exaggerated metaphor that misrepresents the complexity of governance shifts. 2. Unbalanced Position Lack of Counterpoints: The article does not present any counterarguments or perspectives from the Republican side, Musk, or those who support his actions. Assumption of Malice: Every action taken by Musk and Trump is assumed to have the sole purpose of dismantling the government. There’s no discussion of alternative motivations, such as deregulation efforts or administrative restructuring. Partisan Language: While criticizing Trump's alleged content-driven politics, the article also subtly praises Democratic figures like Schumer and Warren, reinforcing a one-sided perspective. 3. Vague or Misleading Arguments Ambiguous Claims: The article asserts that Musk's operatives "infiltrated" government agencies and "locked workers out," but it does not provide clear sources or evidence beyond "reportedly." Overgeneralization: The statement that Musk is turning "governmental soap opera" into content suggests a level of orchestration that may not be fully substantiated. Exaggeration: The claim that Musk is waging a "strategic takeover of national interests" makes it sound like he has unchecked control over federal agencies, which is a strong assertion without clear documentation. 4. Narrative: Icon of Current Political Chaos Metaphor and Storytelling: The article compares Musk’s political maneuvers to a "video game side quest," framing them as entertainment for his followers while obscuring real power moves. Symbolism: The mention of Musk carrying a sink into Twitter headquarters is used as an example of how he plays into internet culture and memes to maintain influence. Characterization: Trump and Musk are positioned as villains using social media and chaos as a weapon, whereas Democratic leaders are framed as rational actors trying to restore order. Conclusion This article is an example of partisan framing with strong rhetorical techniques. It presents Musk as an agent of chaos working on behalf of Trump while pushing the Democratic Party to engage in more aggressive opposition. However, it lacks balance by omitting counterpoints or alternative explanations and relies on emotional and exaggerated language to make its case. "

2/13/2025 2:42:33 PM

I get it, but I think you care a little too much about silly semantics

[Edited on February 13, 2025 at 3:02 PM. Reason : ]

2/13/2025 3:01:48 PM

i care about it because i see far too many people reacting and not thinking. and then they see all their friends and their echo chamber buddies reacting the same way and that reinforces their belief that they are correct to be reacting the way they are.

if you see an issue discussed primarily using buzzwords that you've already seen 100 times before, your intellectual immune response system should immediately kick in and reject the virus. talk about important things without using buzzwords and then we can make some progress.

[Edited on February 13, 2025 at 3:10 PM. Reason : eg zionist genocide ethnic cleansing apartheid open air prison satanyahu nazi white supremacist]

2/13/2025 3:05:55 PM

I desire...

2/13/2025 3:15:13 PM

Make Fox The Only News That Does This Bullshit Again!

2/13/2025 3:16:07 PM

(it's an opinion piece)

2/13/2025 3:45:07 PM

yeah, that's what opinion pieces do

2/13/2025 4:24:06 PM

hahahahaha

2/13/2025 4:32:06 PM

Quote :

"What criteria would you need to see? Is the doge employee who said he’s an immigration eugenicist who wants to normalize Indian hate, who would kill himself before dating outside his race, a white supremacist?"

I think that's a good example of the difference between actual racism and the accusations against elon.

if the doge dude hates indians just for being ethnically indian (which itself is a stupid place to find yourself at considering the vast ethnic diversity within india), then yeah that's racist. doesn't necessarily mean he's a white supremacist. maybe he admires some races/cultures including whites but not limited to whites. maybe he doesn't like/respect some aspects of indian culture and honestly I think that's fine. i think it's still important to by default treat individuals with respect regardless of what ethnicity they are or what culture they're from, yet still be able to criticize individuals for behaviors they may have (which might be to some degree a product of their culture). I do the same thing with Americans all the time.

so let's look at elon. at the "nazi salute" speech, I would expect a nazi or white supremacist to make a speech about grievances about "the other" if this was the moment for his nazi plans to come to fruition, why would he just dog whistle it? he would just come straight out and say it. instead, this is what he wanted to talk about

Quote :

"This is what victory feels like. This was no ordinary victory. This was a fork in the road of human civilization. There are elections that come and go. Some elections are important, some are not. But this one really mattered. I just want to say thank you for making it happen. Thank you. My heart goes out to you. It is thanks to you that the future of civilization is assured. Thanks to you. We're going to have safe cities, finally. Safe cities, secure borders, sensible spending, basic stuff. We're going to take Doge to Mars. Can you imagine how awesome it will be to have American astronauts plant the flag on another planet for the first time? How inspiring would that be? There's always problems in life. There's this problem, solve that problem, solve that problem. But there need to be things that inspire you. There need to be things that make you glad to wake up in the morning and say, I'm looking forward to the future. I love you guys. Let me tell you, I'm going to work my ass off for you guys. I really will. I really will. But I'm super fired up for the future. It's going to be very exciting. As the president said, we're going to have a golden age. It's going to be fantastic. One of the fundamental things, one of the most American values that I love is optimism. This feeling like we're going to make the future good. We're going to make it good. So, man, I can't wait. This is going to be fantastic. So thank you. Thank you again. Yeah, I'm just so excited about the future. Thank you guys. Thank you."

nothing about white supremacy. also, i don't think too many nazis would say things like

Quote :

"Racism in any form is abhorrent and those who push it should be shunned."

[Edited on February 13, 2025 at 5:18 PM. Reason : hahahahaha]

2/13/2025 5:17:40 PM

Quote :

"why would he just dog whistle it?"

because you have to turn the heat up slowly to boil the frog.

2/14/2025 11:54:59 AM

it's been a decade of trumpism. they just won the presidency, both chambers of congress and have a majority on the supreme court. they come right out and say we want to be in control of greenland, we want to annex canada, we're going to take charge of gaza, we're going to cut the federal bureaucracy however we want. they're not dog whistling or slow boiling any more. they're just doing the things. we don't have to connect dots that don't exist but we fear might, there are plenty of actual dots to pay attention to.

Quote :

"Racism in any form is abhorrent and those who push it should be shunned"

can't we just take this at face value. it's probably true that elon cares a bit more (but not exclusively) about racism when it's happening to white people (see his comments on south africa, which is an actually real issue), but honestly that's true for most people and groups. it's probably also true to say for example that most black people in the US will care about racism or injustice in general against black people more than they do against white people or asians or latinos or indians or ukrainians or kurds or armenians or palestinians or copts or eritreans or uyghurs or tibetans or taiwanese. it doesn't mean they're black supremacists, it's just normal human behavior to care more when injustices happen to a group that you're a part of. our goal should be to expand the "group" that people feel the highest affinity toward to the level of all humanity, and focus less on race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, national origin etc.

2/14/2025 12:34:54 PM

^^^
It seems like you’re stripping out a lot of context there. Musk was in the middle of trying to boost the AfD. Musk is also a repeated booster of great replacement theory which is nearly identical to the doge guy’s racism. And musk’s “Hitler was right” affirmation was in reply to the exact same racist sentiments. I feel like a lot of the techno broligarchy engages in a fallacy of using too small of a context window when trying to analyze issues. Plus the fork in the road musk is talking about is making America a white ethnostate. He believes multiracial inclusive democracy is what will doom humanity.

And a racist with political power is a white supremacist.

^ I think youre case in point on why they continue to dogwhistle. Youre a decent, educated, intelligent person, and you are unwilling to see them as white supremacists yet until you actually hear the words “my name is Elon musk and I’m a racist who wants to use government for racism, this is not sarcasm. ” I bet if you took an embedding of musks comments and compared them to the comments of known neonazis they’d have very high cosine similarities.

[Edited on February 14, 2025 at 12:53 PM. Reason : ]

2/14/2025 12:45:57 PM

he’s a bigot who surrounds himself with bigots

he has no issue interacting with people who are blatantly racist

the dude deserves zero benefit of the doubt and it’s fucking weird that people are tripping over themselves to give it to him

2/14/2025 12:53:30 PM

It feels like this could be expert witness qntmfred at a future Elon Musk trial (if we still have a functioning judicial system by then):



[Edited on February 14, 2025 at 1:03 PM. Reason : Not guilty by reason of he made "Thriller"]

2/14/2025 1:02:40 PM

Quote :

"Musk was in the middle of trying to boost the AfD"

i've spoken to his support for AfD before.

Quote :

"I think it's important to understand where this support comes from. I hate that people end up feeling this way, but I do at least understand it. if liberal governments across the liberal world would at least acknowledge the problems in (especially european) society that leads to the current wave of anti-immigrant or at immigrant-skeptic sentiment, it would be a good start. they don't want to talk about it though so AfD ends up being the only game in town"

Again, if folks on "our side" would at least acknowledge the real, legitimate issues (related to immigration in particular) that led to the rise in support for groups like AfD or MAGA, we would be a lot better off. but instead, pretty much everybody just denounces the entire thing as racist and far-right and ignores the problem instead. and since AfD/maga ends up being the only one willing to talk about the problem (as it festers and gets worse), then yeah their support grows.

so it seems to me that the "left" (by which I mostly mean and put the blame on the moderate/establishment dems who actually end up getting elected but won't stand up to the loudmouth leftists who see every single thing as injustice) are the ones stripping out a lot of context. heads in the sand because they don't want to face head on real problems that their citizens care (rightly or wrongly) about.

Quote :

"Musk is also a repeated booster of great replacement theory"

i have seen him express concern about birth rates. as a global issue, not limited to whites. I personally don't see a moral difference between there existing on this planet 100M humans, 1B humans, 10B humans or 100B humans, but it does seem like humanity can accomplish even more greater things when more humans exist to do the accomplishing, so yeah in that sense I would also like to see higher fertility rates.

my sense for musk is he is opposed to illegal immigration, and that's being conflated as support for great replacement theory. and he's angry at the Dems for ignoring the border issue for so long. i think his claims that the Dems were intentionally letting in illegal immigrants because they assumed that the immigrants would be more likely to vote Democrat were stupid, and turned out to be wrong as well. so that's 100% a -1 credibility. whether he actually believed/suspected it or was just using it as political rhetoric i don't know, but it's -1 either way.

He's stated many times he's not opposed to immigration per se. He just wants it done legally, and to prioritize immigration for those who are most likely to contribute to American society.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1867081253817557301
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1859420066284028183
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1842023147719295450
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1837916131346071625

I'm ok with a merit-based immigration system, but I also think he's wrong to not see the value in immigration for ANYBODY who wants to come build a life in the US. and this goes back to what I said earlier

Quote :

"we shouldn't throw out a program that will positively benefit 98% of society just because 2% of the population might squander it."

immigration is a clear net good, not just economically but morally. the more people across the world who get to experience American-style freedom (and yes we have our faults but on the whole, we're pretty awesome. that's why so many millions are willing to take a chance traveling thousands of miles and breaking the law to get here), the better. it's foolish to not admit as many wannabe-Americans as possible (and there is a practical limit, it's not a hey let's let in a billion people from all over the world all at once)

https://twitter.com/kenwarner/status/1707832890321486300
https://twitter.com/kenwarner/status/1839538532148281708
https://twitter.com/kenwarner/status/1702289835807986030
https://twitter.com/kenwarner/status/1872076237356868036
https://twitter.com/kenwarner/status/1816216213602587100
https://twitter.com/kenwarner/status/1803892714079162509

the concept of legal vs illegal immigration has definitely been used as a political cudgel. moreso on the right, of course, but the left is guilty too, as I mentioned earlier, by ignoring the problem in the first place and then attacking anybody who brings up concerns about immigration as racist.

Quote :

"And musk’s “Hitler was right” affirmation was in reply to the exact same racist sentiments"

I think i've addressed those comments elsewhere too. Elon is dumb for not being more precise in his reply to that tweet, and he apologized for it after. And he wasn't saying "hitler was right" he was making a separate point (which i'll explain if i have to but i suspect it'll fall on deaf ears).

Quote :

"he has no issue interacting with people who are blatantly racist"

this i 100% agree with. and it's a criticism of trump that I see as legitimate too. the ease with which he shrugs off bad behavior from his supporters or people in his orbit who WILL straight up say "hitler was right" or even the anti-indian doge guy for example, are big credibility negative points for me. real leaders can make their points while also being able to push back on bad behavior among their allies.

Quote :

"the fork in the road musk is talking about is making America a white ethnostate. He believes multiracial inclusive democracy is what will doom humanity"

citation needed.

Quote :

"Youre a decent, educated, intelligent person"

citation needed. hey thanks

Quote :

"you are unwilling to see them as white supremacists yet until you actually hear the words “my name is Elon musk and I’m a racist who wants to use government for racism, this is not sarcasm. ”"

i mean, yeah maybe i do give more benefit of the doubt than he deserves, but I just don't see the racism accusation as likely being true. there's plenty else to criticize him for (and i desperately wish you people would focus on that instead), but it seems like somebody who says "Racism in any form is abhorrent" is probably not a racist and we are squandering our limited time and attention talking about racism instead of real issues.

[Edited on February 14, 2025 at 2:24 PM. Reason : .]

2/14/2025 2:13:51 PM

would you agree that he is also a bigot?

2/14/2025 4:49:34 PM

bigot being

Quote :

"a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group."

sure, i could go along with that, on the basis that he has strong (and perhaps unreasonably so) opinions and is antagonistic (and maybe even prejudiced but moreso in the strict definition of the world and not the colloquial sense) to those who do not agree.

but i'd also put you and i both into the same category of having strong (and perhaps unreasonably so) opinions and sometimes antagonistic to those who do not agree, so I'm not sure that assigning the label 'bigot' to anybody is helping with the discourse all that much. because the word carries emotional weight (again, the colloquial usage), it is too often used to delegitimize the points of views of others (dehumanize if you like) rather than addressing their points of views directly.

i'm just saying let's focus on actually analyzing the issues at hand rather than trying to let name-calling do all the work.

2/14/2025 4:58:59 PM

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/25/elon-musks-transgender-daughter-in-first-interview-says-he-berated-her-for-being-queer-as-a-child.html

these are the actions of a bigot

2/14/2025 5:03:25 PM

Quote :

"the same category of having strong (and perhaps unreasonably so) opinions and sometimes antagonistic to those who do not agree"

[Edited on February 14, 2025 at 5:12 PM. Reason : i personally do not think you are qualified to make any conclusions on that situation.]

2/14/2025 5:10:45 PM

it is bigoted to antagonize your trans child over being trans

2/14/2025 5:21:29 PM

^^Got 'em!

2/14/2025 5:28:08 PM

I don’t believe that he did

2/14/2025 5:36:39 PM

I would be quite surprised if you did.

2/14/2025 5:40:35 PM

dude quoted the actual definition and then quoted his own variation to fit others under the same umbrella

it is bigoted to be anti-trans

it’s as simple as that

2/14/2025 5:46:28 PM

I know we've clashed on this before, and I really don't want to get into it again, and in fact I cannot.

I agree that being "anti-trans" is bigoted, but I don't think it's necessary anti-trans nor bigoted to have some nuance on positions or to feel like occasionally there are unreasonable and / or unrealistic expectations for accommodation for a minority condition that most people find difficult even understand. This is not specific to Elon Musk's reported behavior. I don't defend him.

You have made abundantly clear numerous times that you are an absolutist on this stuff, so there's really no reason to attempt to discuss with you ever.

You're very good at wearing people down such that there's not much vocal opposition to whatever you post, but it doesn't follow that there's broad agreement even among this self-selected libtard audience (in which I include myself).

2/14/2025 6:00:17 PM

I’m an absolutist in the sense that people need to mind their own business and leave people the fuck alone

2/14/2025 6:06:37 PM