Quote :

"painter never played the post... he played 15 foot jumpers... and committed the dumbest fucking and 1 fouls ever. i saw times he let rebounds go through his hands and hit him in the face like a 3rd grader picked last in gym class the worst thing though that always sparked me doing the traditional "im laughing it off but im pissed as shit" was his back being turned dozens of times when he was the 'help defense' in that situation... this guy was dumb as shit is the bottom line. he just looked black, athletic, tall/big and hit a couple jump shots so people think he's worth a solid 6th man role at nc state. OK guys. OK"

so painter didnt guard centers? I'd much rather have him as an experienced backup than a random freshman who would be nothing but what you described in your post

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 10:29 PM. Reason : v]

4/11/2012 10:28:21 PM

i believe that post was sarcasm..

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 10:31 PM. Reason : maybe not? ]

4/11/2012 10:31:12 PM

it wasnt

4/11/2012 10:32:42 PM

jeez, some of our fans are as stupid as some of the stupid fans of other teams

4/11/2012 10:38:25 PM

Quote :

"painter never played the post"

4/11/2012 10:42:31 PM

how does face feel about all of this?

4/11/2012 10:42:55 PM

just tell me points that he did do then...

all people are telling me and painter-haters is that we are wrong... not why they are right and why he was good

"painter played LEGIT minutes" or "painter = SOLID 6th man" really doesn't show why our side should listen

i gave specific RECURRING points of shitty play because the guy has no bball IQ. you can't teach a natural bball IQ... you can make our current and incoming freshmen bigger and stronger to match his physique and play them just as much to match his court time experience (which i say doesnt even matter cause he was worthless out there)

come on... say something intelligent, about basketball

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 10:46 PM. Reason : match]

4/11/2012 10:46:17 PM

I'll put it this way: losing Painter means a small drop-off in the quality of our depth in the post. We still have plenty of depth in the post, but Painter's size and experience will be missed at times when Howell and Leslie get in foul trouble.

That said, it'll be a good thing for the following season. Guys like Harris, TDT and Vandy, who we will be relying on in 2013-14, will have more experience. We need these guys to be ready to jump into the action in 2013-14. I know that in the "win now!" atmosphere of college basketball, it's crazy talk to think more than a year ahead, but this will really be a good thing in the long run.

4/11/2012 10:48:03 PM

Quote :

"come on... say something intelligent, about basketball"

this isn't the fucking nba dude. you can't just go replace a guy you don't like b/c you think better basketball players exist somewhere.

he was our best option, and now we don't have him. even if you think he sucks, he was an option that we now don't have. it's a mathematical fact, actually: you cannot add a constraint and get a better solution, only an equivalent or worse solution. unless you think that we somehow need the scholarship, which we don't.

i'll say that even simpler for you: before we could either play painter or not play painter. now we can only not play painter. we gain absolutely nothing by this, and lose something. and i promise you when a 7' aussie that shoots the same percentage from 3' that painter shoots from 13' is in the game, you'll understand.

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 10:58 PM. Reason : how you don't understand it now, i don't know. but you will.]

4/11/2012 10:55:42 PM

Losing Painter is a pretty big loss. One of our strengths was having a third post player who can score, rebound, and block shots. Also, Painter was a good help defender in rotations and took charges. His main weakness was that he couldn't rotate out to guard shooters so he did give up the occasional three. He helped spread the offense some by having range, and he was effective at getting to the line and making FT's.

Having a ~100 o-rating guy as your 3rd post player who can play PF & C and is a senior and holds his own on the glass and defensively is an advantage over nearly every team in CBK.

Now we're forced to go with Vandy who can really only play Center and has never shown any rebounding ability, very limited scoring (dunking) ability, and is a turnover/illegal screen setting demon. That's a large downgrade.

We were hoping to offset the loss with a developing Harris who might also be leaving now. We certainly can't offset it with Boils, he was unplayable last year and he is the one we wish would transfer as he has no chance of being productive in the ACC.

Jefferson in the long term is an upgrade but he definitely isn't as good as Painter yet and he can't play Center and looks like he'd be a bad option at PF this year.

TJ Warren I think can definitely play some PF if we go small but it's not ideal not to have any true size off the bench.

Young in all likelihood kinda sucks, but he may be able to replace SOME of Painter's production.

Anyway, the hope is that Howell doesn't pick up as many stupid fouls next year and that Leslie doesn't either. And that Leslie re-commits. Otherwise, we're probably not a top 25 team anymore next year.

So yeah basically, this news sucks.

Raymond leaving is a good thing. While we have all this momentum we need to lock down as many recruits as possible. He slightly weakens our depth but with 3 good ball handlers I'm not worried about it. Our momentum could be gone just as quickly as it came. We want as many scholarships as possible so we can offer everyone and not have to be strategic with who we offer. We want State to be known as a school that it's cool if they are recruiting you. The second the buzz goes away we go right back to being a bubble team every year.

The 2013 and 2014 classes are going to be huge for whether this program gets back on track or not.


In the meantime we need Oriakhi BAD now so that we can compete for the title next year. Can't afford to go with what we currently have for sure. We need Leslie and at least one of Big O, or Emilio. I'll take Young over nothing but we need someone better really I think.

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 11:09 PM. Reason : a]

4/11/2012 11:02:12 PM

so what did painter do that harris, tbdv, and TDT and potential Amile can't do? I have said stuff that I have seen at least 2 of them do so far. one didn't play b/c of redshirt and one was a timid freshman that i know won't be like that coming back with a year under him (if he happens to now come back with this speculation) <--- thats why those 2 weren't ALREADY getting the minutes

this is where the disconnect is. no one has stated a point yet, one about BASKETBALL.

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 11:04 PM. Reason : k]

4/11/2012 11:03:30 PM

^^ i completely agree

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 11:05 PM. Reason : J]

4/11/2012 11:04:59 PM

i'm pretty sure vandy redshirted b/c he wasn't getting minutes, not the other way around.

4/11/2012 11:08:22 PM

What did Painter do that those guys can't do??

This is easy.

He didn't suck nearly as bad as they do.

All 3 of the guys listed were terrible offensively last year, limited rebounders, and weak defenders (except Harris).

4/11/2012 11:11:19 PM

^thanks face... with that. i mean ... ok

good job

4/11/2012 11:13:35 PM

i mean honest question dude: why do you think painter saw the floor last year if he's so inferior to other players on the team?

4/11/2012 11:17:32 PM

Late but one statement does not a dick make. Corch seemed pretty friendly at the elite 8 game in St. Louis after we lost.



He definitely was not doing this in front of Kendall Marshall's dad:





[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 11:24 PM. Reason : ]

4/11/2012 11:18:00 PM

what did he do?

4/11/2012 11:18:38 PM

^^already stated that in my above posts

4/11/2012 11:18:45 PM

Quote :

"Now we're forced to go with Vandy who can really only play Center and has never shown any rebounding ability, very limited scoring (dunking) ability, and is a turnover/illegal screen setting demon. That's a large downgrade."

Quote :

"We certainly can't offset it with Boils, he was unplayable last year and he is the one we wish would transfer as he has no chance of being productive in the ACC."

Quote :

"Young in all likelihood kinda sucks, but he may be able to replace SOME of Painter's production."

Face has decent analysis, but it's important to factor in his considerable racism and bias against big, slow white guys.

Based on what I've seen and read, Young would be an upgrade over Painter.

4/11/2012 11:20:20 PM

again, anyone who doesn't understand that it sucks to lose painter is either a troll or retarded.
let's leave it at that.

hopefully vandenburg, tdt, harris and warren can fill the void. jefferson and/or young would definitely help, big-time.

4/11/2012 11:21:31 PM

Quote :

"^^already stated that in my above posts"

oh i was looking for BASKETBALL reasons. not b/c one had a phantom redshirt and one was a "timid freshman".

4/11/2012 11:21:52 PM

Player A: O-rating 99.7, Oreb 9.2%, Dreb 14.8%, Ast 3.2%, TO 14.5%, 3.0% Blk, 0.6% Stl, TS 47.9%

Player B: O-rating 98.3, Oreb 9.5%, Dreb 15.2%, Ast 2.8%, TO 18.7%, 6.4% Blk, 0.3% Stl, TS 51.1%

Player C: O-rating 101.0, Oreb 9.2%, Dreb 15.6%, Ast 3.1%, TO 13.4%, 2.1% Blk, 3.0% Stl, TS 47.8%


Here we have Painter, Oriakhi, and James Michael McAdoo. One of these guys we are supposed to be excited to lose, one we are praying we get as an incoming transfer, and one guy we were pissed when UNC paid him enough to forego being a lottery pick.


Please explain your inconsistent opinions below. Thanks.

4/11/2012 11:22:28 PM

Vandy's redshirt was medical, not from sitting out the whole year. He played in a few of the early games before the shoulder injury. Since he played in less than the 30% of games played rule, he got the medical redshirt

4/11/2012 11:22:58 PM

^^^^^fixed it. jesus my wolfweb photo embedding skills suck ass

4/11/2012 11:24:40 PM

Quote :

"again, anyone who doesn't understand that it sucks to lose painter is either a troll or retarded. "

more great analysis. keep it up FACE and friends

4/11/2012 11:25:15 PM

fuck this is terrible news I love Painter

4/11/2012 11:27:55 PM

I guess I was the only one who didn't mind McAdoo coming back. We dominated him when he was in the game.

4/11/2012 11:29:47 PM

the analysis is a fact. unless we get 2 big-men who are able to immediately contribute next year, losing a senior painter sucks.

we already had warren and two open scholarships this late in the game, three scholarships doesn't help us, at all.

4/11/2012 11:31:00 PM

^^^^ all the analysis you need is in my last post. It's a bad loss.

Not a death blow we're still a tournament team but it certainly makes us a big longshot for the Final Four. And ACC champs ain't looking as likely as it did 24 hours ago that's for sure.

JMM was terrible for the first 25 games but he hit his stride at the end of the season. He'll be big time next year for sure. He'll force shots but his athleticism is elite. All those steals and breakaway dunks are huge plays.

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 11:32 PM. Reason : a]

4/11/2012 11:31:08 PM

if people think we can replace painter they have ridiculous expectations for back up big men

most big men suck. almost all freshmen big men suck. painter isn't great or anything but he doesnt suck. we will be extremely lucky if some combo of vandenberg/harris/warren can replace his production from LAST year, nevermind what he'd do as a senior

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 11:39 PM. Reason : mcadoo shot like 20% if you dont count breakway dunks. remember this next yr when tjw plays]

4/11/2012 11:35:59 PM

guys guys...

alright now... what i know and can agree is that we all want what is best for the wolfpack, and I love that.

i will rephrase my issue. (even though I know it doesn't change how people disagree with me and other painter-haters)

I am just saying it is not going to hurt us he gone. But I strongly think, and have stated with facts based on actual on court performance, that he is beyond replaceable. For me to say we are better WITHOUT him is definitely me just expressing my hatred towards his several, SEVERAL times of stupidity on the court. (like no help defense, ill advised jumpers, and 1 fouls, and more)

In an emotionless world, having his extra body on the team, even though I would think it should be demoted by next year to 10th man, of course does not hurt.

This is where I am coming from. Not saying we are simply better off that he's off the roster, but personally happy he is because as far as basketball, I saw him as brainless. Not my style of player to enjoy watching and I don't think can contribute at an elite level. I see guys like Tyler Harris (great defense, smart court presence, but 'lacked size and confidence') and TBDV (knows his role a.k.a. doesn't take stupid shots, is a great defensive presence) but didn't play for the medical redshirt reason and lack of confidence due to inexperience and lack of size. Both of those gone by next year.

So when I could simply just say "look guys, don't worry Painter is gone" my extreme dislike for his game really makes me happy he jumped ship and I'm expressing that.

4/11/2012 11:40:15 PM

cool, but i think you're wrong.
losing a senior painter, our only known reliable back-up big man, sucks.
it gives us an opening, but we already had two available scholies this late in the recruiting game.
no matter how you look at it, it's a loss.
but i'm confident that we shall overcome.

4/11/2012 11:46:04 PM

Quote :

"But I strongly think, and have stated with facts based on actual on court performance, that he is beyond replaceable."

this is why you are wrong. he is very nearly irreplaceable. no one currently on the team will perform better than him next year. know how i know? b/c no one currently on the team performed better than him this year, and to strongly think that someone is going to leapfrog the progress that painter would have made over the summer is wishful strong thinking.

maybe we can bring in someone who'll do a good job taking the minutes, but there's basically three possibilities out there right now, and only one of them is remotely likely.

thinking that vandy will do a better job than him is a joke.
likewise for tdt.
harris is the only one that's even remotely possible.

it won't be easy dude, no matter how you feel about that baseline jumper that he has clearly been instructed to take when open.

4/11/2012 11:50:09 PM

after reading his response a few times, i'm realizing that PackGuitar is worse (and much wordier) than me when trying to drive-home a point.

4/12/2012 12:00:12 AM

Leslie, Howell, Tracy Smith, Horner, McCauley, Costner, and Evtimov are all big men who as freshmen would be better than Painter this year or next.

Vandy, TDT, and Harris may be long shots to replace Painter, but Warren and any other recruits certainly aren't. I don't know why you are discounting Gott's recruiting ability.

In any case, no Leslie means we are fucked regardless.

4/12/2012 12:01:06 AM

this skokiaan guy must really know his shit!

4/12/2012 12:02:55 AM

Quote :

"Vandy, TDT, and Harris may be long shots to replace Painter, but Warren and any other recruits certainly aren't. I don't know why you are discounting Gott's recruiting ability."

warren is currently our only recruit listed taller than 6'4", and only having 3 post players last year was a huge problem, if you recall. replacing a senior with a freshman gives us the same depth problems, no matter how good warren turns out to be.

4/12/2012 12:03:52 AM

There's no point in arguing with someone who says that Horner as a freshman was better than Painter would be as a senior.

4/12/2012 12:14:12 AM

well to be fair, horner as a freshman was better than horner as a senior too.

4/12/2012 12:15:42 AM

skoiakan come on man i know you like to hate on Painter but you're being absurd.

You can not honestly be trying to say that those guys were better as freshman than Painter was this year.

Leslie sucked his freshman year, he was definitely NOT better than Painter. Orating 95

Howell had his moments (amazing rebounder) his freshman year but he did nothing the first half of the year and faded in and out of consciousness. His orating was 92.8 that year.

Tracy was good his freshman year on offense but he couldnt see the court because he couldnt guard ANYBODY.

Costner and Horner WERE better than Painter their freshman year but their Sophomore year they were far worse than Painter. Far worse.

McCauley barely saw the court his freshman year so this would be a tough one to argue either way, but while he showed a lot of potential he usually rimmed out the layups he got. He was certainly FAR worse than Painter during his junior year (the Hickson year).


And Evtimov??? The guy was alright offensively because he could shoot and pass (except his 3% FG shooting on those baby hooks he always bricked), but we're talking about a guy who is the ACC career leader in taking the ball out of the net and inbounding it after his man scored on him or took the rebound from him and scored on him. Remember the Seton Hall game where he gave up something like 4 consecutive offensive rebound dunks? Plus he was the worst karaoke singer ever. His g/f was hot but that is no excuse for singing "Summer Lovin' from Grease with her. Just awful.

4/12/2012 12:16:20 AM

You don't really need more than 7 players in the rotation. Most top teams only play 6-7 players a lot.

We were hurting with 7 because painter sucked balls, not because we needed more bodies.

So yes, if Warren is much better than Painter, our team will also be much better without any added depth.

You don't even have to take my word for it:

http://www.teamrankings.com/blog/ncaa-basketball/what's-depth-got-to-do-with-it-many-thin-benches-among-2012-ncaa-tournament-favorites-stat-geek-idol

^The differences are not huge, and then you have you account for the fact that we are talking about freshmen who weren't even required to practice almost being as good or better than Painter

[Edited on April 12, 2012 at 12:25 AM. Reason : .]

4/12/2012 12:18:42 AM

i like how people assume warren can defend opposing pf''s and centers....as a fucking freshman

4/12/2012 12:20:56 AM

I think Vandy will be able to play defense and hopefully dunk once or twice

4/12/2012 12:24:53 AM

i'd be fine with that ...

4/12/2012 12:25:38 AM

Howell and Leslie had legitimate foul problems.

Now, in some ways it might help us if we don't have a viable backup big man because Gottfried might not stupidly bench our players because they're in "foul trouble". Realistically though, he'll probably continue to bench them anyway because it's ingrained in coaches even though its terrible strategy.

But what about when "foul trouble" becomes guys actually fouling out. At that point it's nice to have the least amount of drop off possible. And that would be Painter. Not these other options.

Also, conditioning and cramping have been issues for Howell and Leslie. Also, Painter represents a typical ACC/NCAA starting big man. That is good preparation for Howell/Leslie in practice. Now we are going to be throwing total stiffs at them in practice everyday.

Losing a productive player who is already familiar with the system is terrible. This year is supposed to be our year to make noise. So far, the noise is starting with a whisper.

4/12/2012 12:28:21 AM

We're basically down to hoping Warren is really fucking good and doesn't bitch about playing the 4 next year.

Either than or Young being some crazy diamond in the rough when he's more likely to be slightly better than Berend Weijs

4/12/2012 12:34:09 AM

Where have I seen a recruiting class similar to our incoming freshmen before??? Oh, I know. Two years ago.

Lewis = Harrow. Not ready to be effective in the ACC. May offer some quality minutes from time to time, but not an impact player as a freshman.

Purvis = Brown. A solid player as a freshman but not a game changer. Makes more good plays than bad, but not an ALL ACC caliber player.

Warren = Leslie. A lanky wing who is a "scorer". Takes time to figure out what he can do at this level and how he can get baskets. Scores some but not efficiently. Leaves a lot to be desired defensively.


The great thing about this class is that they are projected to have small small roles (except for Purvis he needs to be ~10ppg as a starter immediately). If we have to rely on them to replace Painter's production we are in trouble.

Harris is like a call option. He sucked this year, but he showed potential. He's far out of the money now, but he's worth hanging onto in case he becomes any good. If he sucks we don't have to play him and he has defensive positional versatility.

Vandenburg has a chance to become a 4ppg/3reb/1.5 blk in 15 minutes kind of guy but we need him as AN option off the bench against the right matchups. Not as THE option off the bench.

TDT is a lost cause I'm afraid. Guy just doesn't have it. Against Wake he was the worst player on the court, and that's saying something. He's not ACC caliber.

[Edited on April 12, 2012 at 12:40 AM. Reason : a]

4/12/2012 12:37:43 AM

Warren lanky?

4/12/2012 1:05:38 AM

Maybe not the right word choice but he's not a post player. More of a tweener face the basket similar to cjl but a better shooter with less athleticism

4/12/2012 1:22:31 AM