Definitely not looking for crystal clear cider or anything, I was just curious mostly if anyone had just bottled straight out of primary and regretted it for whatever reason. I am going to try it. I started fermentation about a week and a half ago on a five-gallon batch, so we shall see. I think I'm going to bottle some still and carbonate some and see which I like better.

I am debating using xylitol to sweeten because it seems like the sweetness from the apple juice concentrate would dissipate if the yeast goes to work on the sugar in it, but maybe not. I have mostly seen the concentrate recommended to up the apple-ness of ciders. I may not even sweeten it, though.

Oh and I added brown sugar pre-fermentation so it should be extra potent.

10/26/2010 4:30:20 PM

from some of the things i've read and heard in podcasts cider even benefits more from staying in the primary for an extended period. Give it more time and the yeast will settle and you can siphon off the top not disturbing the yeast cake and you should be fine and as clear as you can get.

i think you will still want to carbonate though.


perhaps you'd be interested in making Apfelwein
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f25/man-i-love-apfelwein-14860/

10/26/2010 5:19:25 PM

it's pretty straight forward, ^apfelwein uses juice to get it clear like i just mentioned, or siphon off the top like ^Jeep said, if it's cider.

apple cider/juice doesn't need much, no matter what yeast you use it's almost always going to finish dry unless you post-sweeten it, brown sugar might help too. i have heard of that doing well.

i usually add the concentrate if i'm serving the entire gallon at a party or something (and if you do add it, yes the yeast will work on it) but it will remain sweet for about another 2 weeks or so. adding concentrate isn't really intended to sweeten 5 gallons. for larger batches, yea, i'd recommend dextrose and bottling, you could add some apple juice concentrate after primary, before secondary if you wanted to.

i've bottled straight out of primary and no issues whatsoever. so long as it's perfectly sealed you won't get the soap flavor from sitting on the trub until the 6 week mark or so. (but could be less if it's a lighter ale or cider)... the key is, if it's stop fermenting, get it off the trub and into secondary. it can usually sit in secondary for months.

[Edited on October 26, 2010 at 6:11 PM. Reason : gotta break up the longest run-on sentence ever.]

[Edited on October 26, 2010 at 6:27 PM. Reason : bottling]

10/26/2010 6:08:38 PM

Quote :

"I am debating using xylitol to sweeten because it seems like the sweetness from the apple juice concentrate would dissipate if the yeast goes to work on the sugar in it, but maybe not."

it's fairly common to add some sort of preservative (eg potassium sorbate) to kill yeast activity prior to sweetening - never done it personally, but lots of people do - but then, of course, it'd have to be a still cider as you wouldn't be able to bottle condition

[Edited on October 26, 2010 at 6:57 PM. Reason : k]

10/26/2010 6:55:13 PM

I'm not really interested in using preservatives because 1) I want to carbonate most of it and 2) I generally just don't like them. I think what I'm going to do is taste it after fermentation has been stopped for a while, add some apple juice concentrate if it isn't appley enough, sweeten with xylitol and bottle without doing a secondary, and just let it bottle condition for a month or two before I drink it. Thanks all.

10/27/2010 9:16:00 AM

i'm actually starting my apfelwein at lunch (since it requires almost no effort)

not sure i want to wait the 6+ months, though...i'm thinking about leaving it for 6 weeks and then carbing in wine bottles for 2 weeks before popping a cork to try it out

not sure it will be enough time...i want some for new years

10/27/2010 9:56:59 AM

- 5.5 gallons of 100% apple juice (pasteurized, only preservative is ascorbic acid)
- 1 5g packet red star montrachet dry wine yeast
- 4.5c (about 1.6lb) brown sugar
- 1tbsp ground cinnamon
- 1tsp ground ginger
- 1tsp nutmeg
- 6 whole cloves

mixed it all in a 6-gallon carboy, popped the airlock on there, and stuck it in the spare bathroom...we'll see

[Edited on October 27, 2010 at 12:48 PM. Reason : juice was only $17 since mott's was on sale]

10/27/2010 12:45:55 PM

Popped open my first Pumpkin beer last night.

WOW. Awesome beer.

10/27/2010 4:17:47 PM

i put my christmas ale into secondary and added the vanilla bean vodka/extract i made. It was still quite vodka-y, but also very vanilla-y so it should be fine. My FG dropped to a nice 1.008 so i should have a nice ~6% ABV ale. The tasting this week was a lot better than the one i lamented about on the previous page. I am much less worried now. I'll probably go ahead and bottle this weekend, which will be 1 full week in secondary, and get these guys bottle aging for a almost a full six weeks before the holiday season.

10/27/2010 4:56:55 PM

^i was just looking at your recipe, any reason why you didn't use any bittering hops? 35-min seems late and 3/4oz. doesn't seem like enough to add IBU's to balance out the malts/sugars? usually late boil additions you need to boost the hops to get the same bitterness but with less harshness. also seems pretty high on cinnamon. just curious where you got the recipe or if you just altered one. i calculated 12SRM & 12IBU, that's pretty much a light amber spiced ale you just made. i think american lager & lambics are the only two beers i know of with IBUs that low.

^^can you post your hefe & pumpkin recipes?

[Edited on October 27, 2010 at 5:48 PM. Reason : .]

10/27/2010 5:20:45 PM

i'll grab the recipe page tonight and take a look at it. when i plug it into the recipator i get 12 SRM and 13 IBU so you may be right. But i'll pull it out and copy it verbatim.

I had a recipe in my hand going in but my LHBS packages their own in house and had one that was nearly identical so i just went with it. Live and Learn.

10/27/2010 6:25:07 PM

i'm sure it will still taste good, i just was curious because you had mentioned the first taste wasn't what you were expecting.

this may be just me, but i like a little bitterness mixed with hoppy aroma in my seasonal. in theory the recipe does sound good. i would have added a bit more caramel malts (maybe another 1lbs of Crystal 40L) to darken it and maybe 0.5-1.0oz of Cascade at 60min. to just up the bitterness a tad, and possibly add a bit to the aroma hops and would be a nice malty, hoppy aroma, spiced ale without a lot of bitterness, but enough to balance the honey.

i just brewed my brown, but now all this talk has me anxious to brew a Christmas ale

[Edited on October 27, 2010 at 7:03 PM. Reason : .]

10/27/2010 7:02:03 PM

have you guys found it to be cheaper to buy your extract recipes a la carte or as a kit? I think i'm going to move away from kits and start using some other published recipes and doing full boils before i make the move to all grain next year.


and does anyone have any experience with BeerSmith software?

10/28/2010 10:59:25 AM

I only used a kit for my very first brew, the rest have all been a la carte.

The home brew store though I go to is partnered with Dry Dock Brewery (small brewery of the year last year) and I typically go in with a recipe I found online or found in a book, and they sometimes give suggestions or help if I have questions in altering the recipe.

BeerSmith is def. the most popular. I've only converted two AG recipes to extract before, so haven't really needed the software. I use the tools on brewersfriend a lot.

And a couple rules of thumb:
1lb. of pale malt converts to ~0.75lbs of LME or ~0.6lbs. of DME
Then just tweak it to match SRM & IBU's called for in recipe

SRM (color) - http://www.brewersfriend.com/srm-calculator/
      Color Chart for Style: http://s3.amazonaws.com/com.brewersfriend.images/chart_srm.gif
IBU (bitterness) - http://www.brewersfriend.com/ibu-calculator/
      IBU Chart for Style: http://s3.amazonaws.com/com.brewersfriend.images/chart_ibu.gif
ABV (alcohol content) - http://www.brewersfriend.com/abv-calculator/

Hops Acid Table - http://www.brewersfriend.com/2008/09/14/hops-alpha-acid-table/
(also on the bags of hops you get, but this is helpful when calculating the recipe beforehand)

Extract Recipe Template - http://s3.amazonaws.com/com.brewersfriend.images/brewersfriend_extractsheet.pdf
Brew Day Checklist - http://s3.amazonaws.com/com.brewersfriend.images/brewersfriend_checklist_extract.pdf

Periodic Table of Beer Styles (color): http://www.gunaxin.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/1FMnG.png
Periodic Table of Beer Styles (b&w): http://daphne.palomar.edu/mlane/BEER/BeerPeriodicTable.jpg

Chart of Hops: http://zekeshore.com/hops_v1.12.png

[Edited on October 28, 2010 at 1:27 PM. Reason : .]

10/28/2010 1:17:30 PM

Another chart on gravity/hops ratio:
http://hopchewer.com/brew/hopsgraph.jpg

And a good table on malt characteristics:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Malts_Chart

10/28/2010 1:31:56 PM

Looks like I'll be brewing again on Saturday, this time a coffee/espresso stout.

And bottling the brown as it hasn't bubbled all week and no head. (It was already within .002 of FG when I put in secondary, so I assume it's ready)

10/29/2010 1:51:54 PM

Here's the stout 24 hours after pitching... recipe to follow.



[Edited on November 1, 2010 at 12:34 AM. Reason : .]

11/1/2010 12:34:13 AM

is that a 6 or 6.5 gal carboy?

11/1/2010 11:38:26 AM

6gal. our efficiency was a little low on our boil, lol.

bottled the brown on Sat. too, FG was 1.018

[Edited on November 1, 2010 at 1:01 PM. Reason : .]

11/1/2010 12:36:04 PM

Coffee & Cream Stout
--------------------------------------------------------------------
4.5lbs. Light LME (replaced 6.0lbs. of ESB Malt for AG)
1.0 lbs. Gambrinus ESB Malt
0.25 lbs. Honey Malt
0.75 lbs. Crystal 80L
0.25 lbs. Roasted Barley
6 oz. (at little over 1/3 lbs.) Midnight Wheat by Breiss
0.75lb. Lactose

1.00 oz. Goldings (5.5% AA) Whole Hops (60 minute boil)
.25 oz. Fuggle (4.0% AA) Whole Hops (60 minutes boil)

WLP002 English Ale Yeast

Add 1/2 cup of Coffee or Espresso 1-day before racking to secondary.

1.040 OG
Anticipated 20 IBUs
36 SRM

11/2/2010 6:02:26 PM

bottled the cheer beer. smells good. should be light enough for holiday guests to enjoy. Now it's time to think about the next batch

11/2/2010 8:33:14 PM

man i hope i get a brewkit for christmas. this could be my favorite thread on TWW hands down. my girlfriend's step dad makes his own wine on his farm, and i got to pick his brain on it over the weekend. needless to say, i've got the bug BAD to start brewing

11/3/2010 11:18:30 AM

yea, if you love beer, there's no better hobby, making it fresh and being able to cater recipes to taste is just awesome.

11/3/2010 1:18:06 PM

it's a great hobby and you can go as cheap and DIY to as professional as you want. There are people with 1000 dollar setups that still get out performed in homebrew competitions by guys with a rubbermade cooler, brewpot, and a carboy. You can make great beer with the basics and if it tastes good to you then that's all that matters.

11/3/2010 1:31:26 PM

So I've been looking at AG setups and I think the cooler setup is probably the best not just because of cost but also keeping temps. And that way I can use my natural gas stove to heat the water in my house instead of using a propane burner outside all the time. But my only concern is with saccharification rests... as there's no option to use a burner to increase temps and can be cumbersome to have to do multiple steps in a cooler.

With multiple steps then you're looking at using WAY too much water. I've heard the only way around this is to use 1qt per 1lb of grain for the steep and then use boiling water (using BeerSmith to calculate volume) to get the temp up without going over on water. Ending up at no more than 1.6-2qt per 1lb of grain.

Does this sound about right?

Oh, and definitely going 10-gallon.

[Edited on November 3, 2010 at 3:35 PM. Reason : .]

11/3/2010 3:32:59 PM

from everything i have read regarding all-grain if you batch sparge then there is really no need to do a rest. But if you want to fly sparge i suppose you'd probably need another large HLT cooler to keep your sparge water as hot as possible

11/4/2010 8:08:42 AM

Anyone going to the NC Brewers Guild panel this saturday?

I'm thinking about hitting up the brew day at American Brewmaster from 9a-3p and then heading to the Brewers Guild panel at 4:30p.

11/4/2010 1:58:45 PM

My girlfriend just got me a mr. beer 2 gallon home brew kit. I'm brewing the extract it came with right now. When it's done I really want to create a nice Christmas beer that tastes like ginger bread . Is it possible to do in the Mr. Beer kit, or do I really need to get the car boys? Also any tips on recipes? Everything I can find is for the 5 gallon kits. I'd really like to do a half dry half extract beer.

11/8/2010 11:38:54 AM

the Mr. Beer kit is nothing more than a fermenting vessel. I've read plenty of posts by long time home brewers who buy use old Mr. Beer fermenting vessels to make small test batches of beer.

You will have to use some software to convert a recipe from a 5 gallon batch to a 2 gallon size but that's not hard. Or some good googling may reveal an already converted recipe you desire.

11/8/2010 12:56:49 PM

New show called "Brew Masters" on Discovery Channel is going to follow the founder of Dogfish Head around the world in search of ingredients and new ideas. Looks pretty cool from the trailers

http://www.dogfish.com/community/news/press-releases/brew-masters-tv-show-to-begin-airing-in-november.htm

11/8/2010 4:29:57 PM

Quote :

"I'd really like to do a half dry half extract beer."

clarify this a little - there are two kinds of extract, both dry and liquid, and splitting a batch between the two won't change a whole lot (though I assume this isn't exactly what you meant)

right now you really need to look after your fermentation temperature, as it's easy to overlook when starting out but a huge determinant of quality...really depends on the style you're brewing but you probably want it somewhere below 70 F

You can certainly keep brewing 2 gallon batches until you feel you've outgrown them, but I'd stay away from the Mr. Beer ingredient kits in the future. You'll learn more and probably make better beer by developing your own extract recipes. If you're doing full boils (boiling the full 2 gallons of wort volume, that is) then most recipes should be a simple conversion from 5 gallons to 2 (assuming the recipe was calculated based on a 5 gallon boil, rather than a partial boil), but double check numbers in a trial version of ProMash software or something. Variances in wort concentration when scaling down a recipe will affect hop utilization, so you want to keep that constant.

[Edited on November 8, 2010 at 6:09 PM. Reason : ^^^]

11/8/2010 5:59:14 PM

yea, extract is extract, they both have their pros/cons, but essentially the same thing, using both would just complicate the calculations.

Quote :

"Christmas beer that tastes like ginger bread"

try this, the key here is combination of ginger and cinnamon:

Gingerbread Beer
----------------------------------
2 gallon batch, 2.5 gallon boil

3.3 lbs. Pale LME
0.4 lbs. Brown Sugar
3.2 oz. Honey Malt
3.2 oz. Belgian Special B
3.2 oz. Crystal 60L
3.2 oz. Brown Malt
3.2 oz. Crystal 120L

0.4oz. Cluster at 60-min
0.4oz. Kent at 10-min

Nottingham Ale Dry Yeast (5 grams, not full packet)

Boil 1/2 tsp ground ginger and 1/2 tsp ground cinnamon in 2 cups of water for 10 mins. Then cool and add to secondary.

26-29 IBU
22-24 SRM
1.079 OG
1.019 FG

[Edited on November 8, 2010 at 6:20 PM. Reason : .]

11/8/2010 6:03:19 PM

Reading online, I heard there was all extract recipes. Some half extract, half dry recipes, meaning actual dry hops etc., then full dry recipes. Full dry being the hardest.

11/8/2010 6:13:38 PM

seems like you've got some terms confused

extract: all your malt fermentables are derived from extract (dry or liquid), sometimes steeping specialty grains for added color/flavor

partial mash: deriving most of your malt fermentables from extract, but actually mashing (converting grain starch to sugar by steeping grain at around 152 F for an hour) a portion of your malt bill

full mash: all your malt fermentables are derived from mashing grain

some info on partial mashing: http://www.beersmith.com/blog/2009/05/14/partial-mashing/

good website for more brewing info: http://www.howtobrew.com/

11/8/2010 6:20:56 PM

it goes like this:

1) extract
2) partial mash
3) all grain

extract uses liquid malt extract or dry malt extract to replace the sugars in grains that don't have to be steeped. if the recipe doesn't include any grains that have to be steeped, than you can essentially brew with all extract and no grains, but most people call this a very "homebrew" type taste as there's no actual texture that typically comes from steeping the grains. MOST extract recipes though include some sort of specialty grain that HAS to be steeped, so you typically use extract and specialty grain for the wort.

partial mash only includes partial extract, it's usually for people who don't have all the equipment to do all-grain or want to do smaller mashes, still uses mostly grains in their recipes.

all-grain, hardest, but creates the best beer, no extract whatsoever, ALL of the grain is steeped.

^not sure how i missed that, it didn't take me 4 minutes to type this, lol.

^^yea, and hops don't have anything to do with determining the brewing process


[Edited on November 8, 2010 at 6:31 PM. Reason : .]

11/8/2010 6:24:55 PM

i don't know that i'll do all grain again any time soon...it's soooooooooo time consuming and for no real benefit that i (personally) have been able to determine...i feel a bit like a cheater with my partial mash batches, but i really like having that extra time back

11/8/2010 7:20:49 PM

Your correct my terms were off. I'd like to start doing partial mashes.

11/8/2010 8:00:26 PM

it's not worth doing partial mash batches if you are only going to make 2 gallons of beer. Just stick with extract until you are ready to move up to 5 gallon or 10 gallon sizes.

Move on from the mr. beer and coopers style extract kits. find a LHBS (local Homebrew Store) or an reputible online retailer like northernbrewer.com, austinhomebrew.com, or morebeer.com and you can piece together your own extract kit/recipe and have it at your door in a few days.

11/9/2010 8:25:16 AM

+1 for northern brewer

unfortunately, american brewmaster in raleigh can't compete in prices (even with the extra cost of shipping) and selection

i'd recommend starting with an extract kit...they come with just about everything you need, including step-by-step instructions...even if you never move past extracts (which isn't a bad thing, IMO), it's fun

http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing/recipe-kits/extract-kits

11/9/2010 8:45:41 AM

Quote :

""

Where did you get the Pliny?

11/9/2010 9:47:58 AM

he lives in Colorado

11/9/2010 10:57:20 AM

I went to the store twice in the last week and both times picked up the last bottle in the fridge. The store I go to must trickle the bottles out, because last time I talked to them they only get some once every couple weeks, it's still pretty rare.

Although I saw some Pliny the Elder at a local taphouse the other day and about fell off my chair.

Soo......... my Coffee & Cream Stout.

Put some Costa Rican coffee (high flavor, high aroma, low acidity) in last night. This is the method I went with:

1) Coarse ground 8oz. of whole coffee beans
2) Put in muslin bag
3) Soaked grounds and muslin bag in a mixture of Everclear & Vodka (to get 75%ABV to sanitize) for 5-minutes
4) Took muslin bag out, drained, then placed into primary fermenter. Do not pour liquor in.
5) 24-hours later, rack to secondary.

11/9/2010 11:17:47 AM

I...this thread makes me want a beer right now.

And that C&C stout sounds freakin' delicious.

11/9/2010 11:44:33 AM

i am a total noobie to brewing, so please forgive me...but a few questions:

1) Per Prospero's description above, how does a muslin bag fit into a carboy (am i reading/understanding this right?) is it just a small bag?
2) can someone explain "rack to secondary"? "racking" is siphoning from fermenter to bottling bucket with leaving sediment behind, correct? Is secondary another fermenter, such as a carboy? and what advantage does secondary have.

thanks!

[Edited on November 9, 2010 at 11:48 AM. Reason : .]

11/9/2010 11:47:41 AM

^muslin bag is basically a cotton bag (kinda like a tea bag filter) it keeps the coffee grounds out of the beer. if you have a bag large enough to allow the grounds to move around you kind of just push the bag along with a bit of coffee in, a little at a time. I suppose you could use something like ultra-fine cheesecloth as well and just wrap it tight and narrow.

yes, racking to secondary just means siphoning from primary (typically a 6-gallon carboy) to secondary (typically a 5-gallon carboy, since most of the heavy fermentation is already complete). this helps clear the beer and gets the beer of the trub (the yeast cake at the bottom) to prevent oxidation or what's commonly referred to as the soapy flavor (when the fatty acids in the trub break down the salt left behind is essentially soap). MOST recipes only leave it in primary for 1-2 weeks tops. Racking to secondary also introduces a little more oxygen helping it finish fermenting to get closer to final gravity (FG). You can typically keep a beer in secondary MUCH longer than primary.

[Edited on November 9, 2010 at 12:30 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2010 12:14:27 PM

from a lot of reading it seems the thought on secondary has changed some in the last couple years as people say it's not as necessary as once assumed. however i still rack to secondary on every batch. I like being able to free up the big carboy to start another batch. the secondaries are definitely a must if you are going to do any dry hopping or flavor additives after primary fermentation has stopped.

11/9/2010 2:31:49 PM

awesome...thanks!

i went to Triad Homebrewing Supply at lunch and picked up all the equipment i need to get started can't wait to get home and begin...

my first batch is going to be a Bavarian Hefeweizen, 5 gallon. can someone link me to a picture of a stainless steel pot that would work fine as my boil pot? i know there are tons of sizes but im unsure of what to go with...

thanks!

11/9/2010 2:44:40 PM

20 or 30-quart is fine for extract, partial mash. i'd probably recommend 30-40 if you can afford it, as it gives you the room to move to all-grain later if you wanted to.

If you have a smaller stock pot you typically just need about 1 quart per pound of grain (usually around 3 gallons or so for a boil minimum, then after you cool and pour into primary, you can add bottled or purified water to supplement up to the 5 gallon mark in your carboy. If you have a 30-quart you can do a full 5-gallon boil.

I'm pretty sure mine is 20-quart as I usually boil 3.5 gallons (boils down to 3 gallons), then just add 2 gallons of purified water to get to the 5 gallons.

[Edited on November 9, 2010 at 3:07 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2010 2:58:31 PM

does stainless steel really make that big of a difference?

11/9/2010 3:16:46 PM

you can brew with an aluminium pot. But over time those pots will begin to show some scorching and may input off flavors into your wort due to this.

if you have an aluminium pot on hand go ahead and do this batch with it, you should be fine. Your focus should be spent on sanitation first and foremost, then cooling your wort down to an acceptable pitching temperature, and finally a steady fermentation temperature. Between all of that remember RDWHAHB. Relax Don't Worry, Have A Homebrew.

11/9/2010 3:35:55 PM