Not extremely, though it could assist us in determining his motivation.

Speculating about it is worthless, however.

3/28/2012 9:52:57 AM

http://www.timwise.org/2012/03/trayvon-martin-white-america-and-the-return-of-dred-scott/#more-942

Quote :

"And not even the well-established right to self-defense — the very right Zimmerman would now claim for himself, but which apparently did not extend to the young man whose life he ended. And so we hear (whether true or not — it remains to be seen) that Zimmerman had a broken nose and head injuries, that Martin attacked him: never mind that Zimmerman took out after Martin, that Zimmerman accosted Martin and asked him what he was doing in the neighborhood, that, according to witnesses, it was Zimmerman who pinned Martin down. We are supposed to feel sorry for the shooter because even in the light most favorable to him, his victim might have actually fought back! Imagine that, fighting back against a total stranger who attacks you. That Martin would still be alive and Zimmerman would never have suffered the indignity of a broken septum, nor the anger of millions aimed in his direction had he just kept his stupid ass in his SUV like the police told him to do apparently matters not. Because, as some wish to remind us, Trayvon Martin had been suspended for school on suspicion of marijuana possession (an allegation so weak that he received no citation for the incident); and because Trayvon didn’t have a receipt for those Skittles he had in his possession when he was murdered (as if any 17 year old asks for a receipt when they purchase candy like they were going to need it for an expense report); and because Trayvon posed like a gangster on Facebook. Oh no, sorry, wrong Trayvon, but racists are like the Honey Badger–they don’t give a shit. The active and putrescent campaign of defamation now in full swing against this dead child is a reminder of just how little black life matters to some. No matter the facts, their deaths are always justified. ... Nothing is unacceptable to these people. Nothing. Their fear of blacks allows them to smooth over every bigoted crease in their racialized narrative, to make the indefensible defensible, in the name of their own perceived safety. Their pathological inability to look at black people as anything other than an undifferentiated mass of criminals, rather than encouraging us to condemn them for their utterly stupefying lack of discernment, and mentally diseased dysfunction, is to serve as a defense to every racist act. Black people are to bear the burden of everyone else’s mendacious and morally supine stupidity. Black people are to continue being profiled, suspected, and occasionally killed, so long as those conditioned by white supremacy are afraid of them. And that, we are to believe, is the fault of black people, not the rest of us."

What we're seeing now is attempts to defame Martin for no other reason but to tell scared white people like pack_bryan and sparky that, yes, it is okay to be terrified of every black face you see because, if you dig enough, they're all criminals and all dangerous. It's okay to declare yourself neighborhood watch, strap a gun to yourself, and stalk every black person who comes near your community and eventually accost them. If they respond to your brandishing and harassment with self-defense, shoot them dead, that is your duty as the protector of civilization.

Quote :

"Not extremely, though it could assist us in determining his motivation."

I think it's quite clear his motivation was to stop that "fuckin coon" from "getting away like those assholes always do".

[Edited on March 28, 2012 at 10:24 AM. Reason : .]

3/28/2012 10:14:12 AM

Quote :

"What we're seeing now is attempts to defame Martin for no other reason but to tell scared white people like pack_bryan and sparky that, yes, it is okay to be terrified of every black face you see because, if you dig enough, they're all criminals and all dangerous."

WOW...speculation much?!?! i never said that all black people are criminals and dangerous. just that we all form prejudice as a way to protect ourselves. it's human nature. i think WE are intelligent enough not to act on those prejudices and do something like Zimmerman. and i think we understand that stereotypes do not apply to every single person in a group. however there are people out there like Zimmerman that do not. does it mean that what he did was illegal? we can't say. however, given the crime that Zimmerman had recently experienced in his neighborhood, and that Trayvon fit the profile of such criminals, deciding to follow Trayvon to see if he was up to no good can be justified.

3/28/2012 10:36:08 AM

Quote :

"i think WE are intelligent enough not to act on those prejudices and do something like Zimmerman. "

Quote :

"Trayvon fit the profile of such criminals, deciding to follow Trayvon to see if he was up to no good can be justified. "

Wow it's like you're purposely trying to fit the type Wise is talking about in the article.

Quote :

"They are the odious inheritors of a time-honored and dreadful tradition, in which virtually no misdeed the target of which is black can simply be condemned for what it is, and then have such condemnation followed by a period at the end of the sentence. No, it is forever and always the case that such condemnations, when and if they issue at all, will inevitably be followed by a comma, and the word “but,” and the attempt, however clumsy and craven, to all but erase the condemnation in a word salad of imbecilic rhetoric and exculpatory exhortation."

Looks like MY speculation wasn't off-base at all. Strange, you have no problem with speculation when it's somebody speculating that a black person is dangerous.

Quote :

"If they just hadn’t fit the description of some criminal the police were looking for, and by “fit the description” we mean had they not been black or brown, between 5 foot 8 and 6 foot 6, walking upright."

[Edited on March 28, 2012 at 11:00 AM. Reason : .]

3/28/2012 10:44:27 AM

well i guess you got me. i'm racist

regardless, if I see an unfamiliar suspicious looking person in my neighborhood i would investigate. i don't care if it was a black, white or brown person. if they look suspicious then i'm going to see what they are up to, and yes I will be packing and probably have my dog with me because I have no idea if that person poses a danger or not.

3/28/2012 11:39:27 AM

Homogenous communities have been the most powerful social unit for all of human history, a fact that should be ignored at your own peril.

3/28/2012 11:53:13 AM

Quote :

"regardless, if I see an unfamiliar suspicious looking person in my neighborhood i would investigate. i don't care if it was a black, white or brown person. if they look suspicious then i'm going to see what they are up to, and yes I will be packing and probably have my dog with me because I have no idea if that person poses a danger or not."

The only thing about Trayvon that fits the "profile" of "suspiciousness" is that he was black. Oh, and he wore a hoodie.

Quote :

"Homogenous communities have been the most powerful social unit for all of human history, a fact that should be ignored at your own peril."

Just to be clear, you're talking about racial homogeneity, right?

3/28/2012 12:08:58 PM

3/28/2012 12:49:40 PM

Answer the question, smc, if you're a racial separatist then just state it openly like you have a pair.

3/28/2012 12:51:38 PM

Str8Foolish is a witch!

3/28/2012 12:52:37 PM

Quote :

"The only thing about Trayvon that fits the "profile" of "suspiciousness" is that he was black. Oh, and he wore a hoodie."

yet it is still suspicious. for example, i live in a "white" neighborhood. there are no families on the street that i live on that are of any other race then white. if i saw a black guy wearing a hoodie walking down my street would I think it was suspicious? yes. however, Zimmerman could have handled the situation much better. if i was in Zimmerman's shoes I would not have pursued the suspicious person in my vehicle. i would have simply gone out to walk to the dog, as to not look suspicious myself. i probably would approach the person in a personable manner, maybe a nice "hello" or something to that affect just to let that person know that if they were thinking of engaging in criminal activity maybe they would have second thoughts.

3/28/2012 12:58:23 PM

Quote :

"there are no families on the street that i live on that are of any other race then white. if i saw a black guy wearing a hoodie walking down my street would I think it was suspicious? yes."

What if it was a white guy that you didn't recognize? I find it odd that you assume that everybody in your ideal white community associates strictly with other white people, having no friends, family, business partners that are non-white, and their children having no non-white friends.

[Edited on March 28, 2012 at 1:07 PM. Reason : .]

3/28/2012 1:06:30 PM

if it was some one i did not recognize, whatever the skin color, I would investigate. prime example, just last weekend the kids in the neighborhood were playing in the cul de sac. i notice a grown white man talking to the kids that i did not recognized. i put down my garden tools and walked over to investigate. i approached the man in a pleasing manner and introduced myself. turns out it was one of the kids from across the street father.

3/28/2012 1:32:16 PM

Did you bring a gun and your dog?

3/28/2012 1:47:30 PM

Quote :

"Apparently so, and the state of Florida agrees."

Really? So the state of Florida weighed in on this case? Please, show me where they did that.

3/28/2012 1:56:38 PM

Reverend Jesse Jackson: "If I'm walking down the street at night and hear footsteps, I'm relieved if I see the people behind me are white"

3/28/2012 2:02:08 PM

Quote :

"Did you bring a gun and your dog?"

just the gun. i always carry.

3/28/2012 2:06:11 PM

If you keep a gun on your person even while gardening at home you should probably see a psychiatrist. Also I'd be sure all of your neighbors realize you do so they can make the appropriate decisions about letting you near their kids. Also let them know you regard black people as being generally suspicious. You're basically a Zimmerman waiting to happen by all counts so they might want to know in case they or their children have any black friends who might wear a hoodie.

[Edited on March 28, 2012 at 2:14 PM. Reason : .]

3/28/2012 2:10:09 PM

You could argue that anybody who locks their fucking doors at night should see a psychiatrist with that utterly retarded logic.


Also the only Zimmerman is yourself and your comrades itching for the perfect chance to exact their personal revenge on the first cracker or beaner they think is 'suspicious' of them

3/28/2012 2:19:04 PM

Yes, carrying a lethal weapon with you 24/7 is totally equivalent to locking your doors. Totally. pack_bryan you should probably skip the psychiatrist and go straight to the padded room.

[Edited on March 28, 2012 at 2:22 PM. Reason : .]

3/28/2012 2:21:34 PM

^^^ if you aren't always prepared you are never prepared. seconds matter. if shit hit the fan it would suck if i had to run into my house to retrieve my pistol. i went through the necessary training to receive my concealed carry permit so i wouldn't alarm the public that i was armed. why would I go broadcasting that? if i wanted to broadcast that i was armed i would open carry, but i don't do that as not to frighten people. the general public is not educated on firearm safety and thus most fear firearms. you would be surprised at home many people are armed but go unnoticed because they are carrying concealed.



[Edited on March 28, 2012 at 2:26 PM. Reason : ^^^]

3/28/2012 2:25:10 PM

^+1

^^I suppose it is different logic... (if I'm in a suburban neighborhood. Most likely no need for the gun. Probably the locks either in most places.)

I guess it just depends on 'what side of town i'm in' whether or not I'd lock my doors or carry that gun while gardening though


In other news, that's the first post you've made in a while where you didn't invoke the race card.

congratulations.


[Edited on March 28, 2012 at 2:29 PM. Reason : ^^,^]

3/28/2012 2:26:54 PM

bad shit happens in the suburbs too

3/28/2012 2:28:21 PM

Look, sparky, I'm just worried that you might run into a concealed-carry holder who's black and make a split-second decision given that you'd already be suspicious of him. You should really let the people in your neighborhood know it's a very bad idea to invite any black people (including their children's friends) around until they notify you first and provide a dossier.

Quote :

"the general public is not educated on firearm safety and thus most fear firearms."

I'm not saying they'll fear the firearm, I'm saying they'll fear a person who carries one with them at all times. I grew up around a multitude of guns, have been trained in firearm safety, and am pretty well educated. I'm not scared of guns, but I am scared of people who carry lethal force with them at all times, given that humans often make errors in judgement and snap decisions which (thankfully) would otherwise by non-fatal.

[Edited on March 28, 2012 at 2:38 PM. Reason : .]

3/28/2012 2:31:34 PM

If i had a neighbor that I knew carried a firearm at all times, I would most definitely not let my kid near that person or their kids.

3/28/2012 2:33:16 PM

Quote :

"the general public is not educated on firearm safety and thus most fear firearms"

So you're saying that people who are "educated" do NOT fear firearms?

3/28/2012 2:35:30 PM

don't worry. i'm not trigger happy and i have nothing against black people. but i will investigate any suspicious person in our neighborhood as i would hope any of my neighbors would do as well. it's easy to recognize when some one is having company as additional cars are in the area. i'm sure you are smart enough to distinguish between some one who seems to be visiting the neighborhood as a guest versus some one who seems suspicious.

3/28/2012 2:36:39 PM

in North Carolina 100% chance of suburb burglaries on the regular. i agree. (was referring to other places mostly)

3/28/2012 2:37:08 PM

Quote :

"So you're saying that people who are "educated" do NOT fear firearms?"

no...that's not what i'm saying

3/28/2012 2:38:06 PM

Quote :

"If i had a neighbor that I knew carried a firearm at all times, I would most definitely not let my kid near that person or their kids."

why?

3/28/2012 2:38:50 PM

Because everybody except CC'ers regard CC holders as paranoid people to be avoided. You don't have to be scared of guns to be put off by paranoid people wielding lethal force.

It'd be the same reaction if you constantly walked around with a grenade or a cyanide gas cartridge.

[Edited on March 28, 2012 at 2:41 PM. Reason : .]

3/28/2012 2:40:35 PM

Quote :

"don't worry. i'm not trigger happy and i have nothing against black people. but i will investigate any suspicious person in our neighborhood as i would hope any of my neighbors would do as well. it's easy to recognize when some one is having company as additional cars are in the area. i'm sure you are smart enough to distinguish between some one who seems to be visiting the neighborhood as a guest versus some one who seems suspicious."

I guess my question is who appointed you to go around checking out suspicious people, while armed? I hope my neighbors contact the police if they see anything suspicious, not go putting themselves at risk by confronting a suspicious person. (or end up killing them)

3/28/2012 2:41:59 PM

^^so you are being prejudicial and stereotyping. gotcha.

[Edited on March 28, 2012 at 2:43 PM. Reason : ^^]

3/28/2012 2:42:11 PM

You weren't born a CC holder. It's a choice you made, an action you took willfully. That's very different from looking at you and deciding, based on the color of your skin, that you should be treated with suspicion.

Quote :

"I guess my question is who appointed you to go around checking out suspicious people, while armed?"

What's ironic is that this kind of behavior is way more suspicious than walking down the street with a hoodie.

[Edited on March 28, 2012 at 2:44 PM. Reason : .]

3/28/2012 2:43:01 PM

Quote :

"I guess my question is who appointed you to go around checking out suspicious people, while armed? I hope my neighbors contact the police if they see anything suspicious, not go putting themselves at risk by confronting a suspicious person. (or end up killing them)"

nobody. but if i see a unfamiliar grown man talking to my son in the street you better be damned sure i'm going to check it out.

3/28/2012 2:43:57 PM

Well sure, if it's your family. Not what I was asking, and definitely doesn't apply to this case.

3/28/2012 2:45:06 PM

Quote :

"You weren't born a CC holder."

no but i grew up around guns. my dad is an avid hunter and i learned about firearm safety at a very young age. one of my first memorable gifts from my grandfather was a .22 rifle.

3/28/2012 2:45:07 PM

You later found out that grown man lived across the street.

Does he know you were holding during that episode?

Quote :

"no but i grew up around guns. my dad is an avid hunter and i learned about firearm safety at a very young age. one of my first memorable gifts from my grandfather was a .22 rifle."

Yes me too, you're missing the point. Stereotyping people who perform a certain behavior (Such as carrying a gun at all times) is not the same thing as stereotyping people who were born with a certain color of skin. If there's nothing suspicious about carrying a gun at all times, it's definitely made suspicious by the fact that you conceal that fact from your neighbors whose children play next to your house.

[Edited on March 28, 2012 at 2:48 PM. Reason : .]

3/28/2012 2:45:44 PM

Quote :

"Well sure, if it's your family. Not what I was asking, and definitely doesn't apply to this case."

i thought you were referring to the personal example i gave above.

3/28/2012 2:46:43 PM

Quote :

"You later found out that grown man lived across the street. Does he know you were holding during that episode?"

well not across the street i live on but across the main corridor street in the same neighborhood but different cul de sac.

no he didn't know i was carrying. i didn't approach him in a threatening way. i was more then pleasant. in fact we exchanged phone numbers.

3/28/2012 2:48:43 PM

You should probably ask his permission before you play neighborhood watch on his property with a lethal weapon again.

3/28/2012 3:01:09 PM

i wasn't on his property. he was in our cul de sac where my property is.

3/28/2012 3:03:01 PM

Not sure why sparky is a demon for carrying all the time. My brother has two small children and he carries just about anytime, even hanging out around the house. I don't feel unsafe with my children around him. When I obtain my CCP I will probably do the same at my apartment complex with my 442. I won't tell anybody and don't feel there is any need to. Unlike sparky though I don't know everybody in the complex, so I don't ever worry about approaching anybody. If I see somebody suspicious we just call the front office or the non-emergency number for the police and avoid them. Only time I would be concerned is if they approached my wife or children outside, but other than that I just avoid people around here I don't know.

3/28/2012 3:04:18 PM

being in an apartment complex i understand. i live in a small neighborhood and know everyone on my street.

3/28/2012 3:07:15 PM

in str8foolishs world only thugs and criminals are allowed to conceal carry

3/28/2012 3:13:53 PM

I really recommend everyone in this thread read "Meditations on Violence"

http://www.amazon.com/Meditations-Violence-Comparison-Martial-Training/dp/1594391181

Anticipating, predicting, and reacting to all elements of violence is almost impossible; even when you are well trained.

We are all conditioned by the media, entertainment, and society that violence takes place and can be handled in a certain way. Which is the farthest from the truth.

A lot of people seem have forgotten, or are ignorant of, how brutal of a place earth can be.

3/28/2012 3:55:49 PM

Or for a much quicker read along the same vein:
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-truth-about-violence/

3/28/2012 4:01:22 PM

^^great book

i love the tactical matrix u can use for all violence...



[Edited on March 28, 2012 at 4:07 PM. Reason : ,]

3/28/2012 4:06:30 PM

Quote :

"why?"

Someone who feels the need to always have a firearm on them is not someone I want around my kid(s). It's a mindset thing. No offense...

3/28/2012 5:04:05 PM

Man, I have to say....


The world must seem like a very scary place to some of you cats. Haha, I simply can't imagine walking down the street, holding my breath and puckering my tight little asshole after being sketched out by all of the "dangerous minorities" walking around minding their own business.


^ I also could not imagine taking my son over to your daughter's birthday party, and thinking to myself "welp...better grab my gat. I might need it".



[Edited on March 28, 2012 at 5:38 PM. Reason : haha, rambunctious ass 6 year olds!!1one]

3/28/2012 5:30:10 PM