America's original sin was slavery. There has never really been a reckoning. Don't get me wrong, there have definitely been significant and momentous events and movements, such as the emancipation proclamation, the civil rights era, and my birth. But I don't think America has ever really acknowledged the sin of slavery (in large) and accounted for it. I mean, fuck....the government reimbursed slave owners after forcing them to free their slaves, yet the concept of reparations is so out of this world that it cannot even be considered?!?!
With the recent events in our country, this has obviously propelled another movement. But is this really America's reckoning with racism? Call me calloused, but I don't really see major changes coming out of this. I think that after the dust settles, police departments won't enact any significant changes. People will still harbor racist feelings, and pass them down to their children. The republican party will still silently encourage the racist undertones while pretending there isn't really a problem. The media will still portray brown society as separate and more dangerous than the accepted whites and 'model' immigrants.

What are your thoughtings, TWW?

[Edited on July 12, 2020 at 4:57 PM. Reason : Man, I type so much more when I am at a desktop as opposed to typing with my thumbs on my phone. ]

7/12/2020 4:57:24 PM

yes.

7/12/2020 5:40:25 PM

I am conflicted and likely will be attacked. My thoughts are that we came a long way and had a long way to go. Racism still exists in every direction and it needs to end. Not all whites Hate blacks and Asians. Not all blacks hate whites. But the population of both are stroll here. I’m simply tired of the societal civil war we are having and demanding we are all divided. I sympathize for any minority that is persecuted and oppressed but not people who think it gives the right to loot and steal.

7/12/2020 5:46:58 PM

Quote :

"Call me calloused, but I don't really see major changes coming out of this. I think that after the dust settles, police departments won't enact any significant changes. People will still harbor racist feelings, and pass them down to their children. The republican party will still silently encourage the racist undertones while pretending there isn't really a problem. The media will still portray brown society as separate and more dangerous than the accepted whites and 'model' immigrants. "

Yeah. This is how I feel.

7/12/2020 7:38:16 PM

I hate that this quickly became a political topic. I also hope we find a good ground to stand on.

7/12/2020 7:53:15 PM

one party is more than happy to welcome racists under their umbrella

a whites only umbrella, that is

7/12/2020 8:00:02 PM

Quote :

" Call me calloused, but I don't really see major changes coming out of this. I think that after the dust settles, police departments won't enact any significant changes."

Yeah, I really hope there will be more substantial changes than changing the Aunt Jemima logo and renaming the "master" branch to "main" in GitHub, but I'm not holding my breath :/

7/12/2020 8:28:20 PM

Love the persecution complex opener, lol. That's quite a collection of thoughts there, sir. This one stood out though:

Quote :

" I sympathize for any minority that is persecuted and oppressed but not people who think it gives the right to loot and steal."

This statement seems a bit out of place here. Sure, this thread touched on civil unrest, but made no specific mention of looting and rioting... Weird. Two thoughts:

1. Those protesting and those rioting may not be mutually exclusive groups. It's best not to even bring race into this particular argument. Here in DC, those that were causing most of the damage to property were the bamas.

2. What do you think this has to do with ending systemic racism?

7/12/2020 8:35:27 PM

There needs to be much more focus on eliminating the racist systems that dominate everyday life. These systems were put in place long ago and to this day continue to propagate racism and expand the effects of racism/racial disparities. Most people unknowingly participate in these systems, vouch for the colorblindness of theses systems, and defend the existence of these systems. All while pushing the myth that racial disparities have gotten better in the last 40 years.

but its a lot easier to change individual racist symbols or cancel racist individuals. Its more expedient and it doesn't "cost" as much to the people who benefit from the racist systems. Society will do anything to avoid getting rid of the racist systems its built on. This is why its been so quick to cancel karens, throw aunt jamima under the bus, post black screens online, and paint murals on the streets. Anything to deflect away from real change.

7/12/2020 8:57:48 PM

Unfortunately, there won't be much real change. It will be superficial mostly.

Real change comes from people's culture and biases changing, and that requires generations to be born and die. Give it a 100 years, perhaps.

Right now, it is just some bandaids. I hope I am proven wrong.

7/13/2020 12:01:54 AM

I feel like racism has been growing not shrinking. Not in my head but it seems that politicians and media want to ramp it up. Sure we make sure to have a gay person, black person and white dork in every show but I feel like it’s more divided than I’ve seen before.

7/14/2020 5:20:51 AM

It's always been that way, you just haven't seen it cause we had a silent social contract that you don't talk about. Then we had the 2016 elections and now it's ok to show your true racist colors cause the president is going to retweet you.

[Edited on July 14, 2020 at 9:01 AM. Reason : N]

7/14/2020 9:01:15 AM

So tell me a bullet pointed list that will make me less racist in the eyes of minorities. I just helped a Mexican man buy toothpaste because he called it pasta and no other one here could understand he wanted toothpaste and not pasta. I’m not hateful of others but What is the answer outside of small gestures to move relations forward and stop this racism pandemic. I really love everyone except synapse and try to help and understand.

7/14/2020 5:12:19 PM

Coming up with a list of all of the ways people can be racist sounds like a fools errand.


But speaking more generally, when people of color tell tales of racism, listen to them and believe them. Don't try to argue with them, or minimize their experience. Don't try to convince them that they are imagining racism.

Also, how often have you been around a group of white friends and family, and you heard someone say something racist? Did you shut that shit down, and either remove that racist from your presence or remove yourself? How often have you seen racist jokes, memes, or other media scroll across your newsfeed? Did you unfriend these people, or just kind of move along?

How about not giving your patronage to media companies who welcome racist commentary? Looking at you Fox News, Breitbart, New York Posts.

7/14/2020 5:30:58 PM

All good points I will think on. I just had a talk on my the porch with my brother about this. Neither are racist. I to be accused as one. In reality I would like us all to not fight each other. I Like you all except synapse and appreciate you all being here.

[Edited on July 14, 2020 at 6:22 PM. Reason : And to be clear I dislike synapse because he has nothing but personal insults and trolling to claim]

7/14/2020 6:17:31 PM

lol I didn't even post in this thread and I get name dropped



[Edited on July 14, 2020 at 6:38 PM. Reason : But ok I'll play your dumb game. Where did I deliver any personal attacks towards thou?]

7/14/2020 6:36:49 PM

Daily. You are a troll and miserable person. Look at your post history when you look in the mirror and I’ll do the same.

[Edited on July 15, 2020 at 7:04 AM. Reason : .]

7/15/2020 7:00:10 AM

In all honesty EMCE. I can’t remember a time I heard a racist joke at a family meal. And we do family meals like duck dynasty. If I did I would be offended and wait til supper was done and try to tell them what they did was wrong. But as a white man growing up in eastern NC I would say it’s not as racist as people make it out to be and you would be welcomed with open arms to our table and no racist words would be spoken before during or after.

7/15/2020 7:18:29 AM

^you have zero idea how racist eastern nc is, the rest of your post is irrelevant anecdotal info. You keep claiming you want to be educated but keep insisting on the evidence of your own experience.

Quote :

"Look at your post history when you look in the mirror"

Seems hard.

7/15/2020 7:47:24 AM

^^^ if you continue to be unable to answer simple fucking questions I should probably stop responding to you.

Perhaps you need the Earl treatment.

[Edited on July 15, 2020 at 10:36 AM. Reason : ^ starting to think this is a dumb alias account.]

7/15/2020 10:35:00 AM

Quote :

"So tell me a bullet pointed list that will make me less racist in the eyes of minorities"

You don't deserve to be taken seriously when you said all this racist stupidity mere days ago: message_topic.aspx?topic=651657

But EMCE is a gentleman and a scholar and did anyway.

Quote :

"What is the answer outside of small gestures to move relations forward and stop this racism pandemic"

Oh wow great appreciate your interest perhaps you could start by not making racist posts on the internet just a thought

[Edited on July 15, 2020 at 10:48 AM. Reason : Lol racism is a pandemic no fucking way this is for real come on ]

7/15/2020 10:43:45 AM

Sooo.. Nick Cannon gets canned for anti-Semitic remarks but before that he was also being pretty hateful to white people. Is this going to be accepted behavior, that you can be hateful towards white folk unless you single out the Jews, in which you done messed up?

7/15/2020 6:27:49 PM

Oh my! Who will look out for the white people!?!?

7/15/2020 6:32:13 PM

Eastern NC is known to be racist. My family Is. not. I would invite any black person to my home for dinner and they would perhaps like it or hate it... but synapse while I would welcome you at my table you would likely despise me and the feeling would be equal. I’m not racist nor is my family but you attempt to drum up hate with posts that say nothing. You are a worthless troll.

[Edited on July 15, 2020 at 6:46 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on July 15, 2020 at 6:48 PM. Reason : .]

7/15/2020 6:45:30 PM

^^
They don't need defending, but if a white person made those comments about anyone that wasn't white, you know the uproar it would bring.

Generally, if you've been the victim of racism or discrimination I can see how you might harbor some ill will towards others but don't you still need to be held accountable like everyone else?

7/15/2020 6:53:24 PM

^seems pretty low on the priority/worry list.

^^what does that have to do with anything? Who cares if you specifically are racist? However at a minimum it is seems you're ignorant to systemic racism and unwilling to learn

7/15/2020 7:32:34 PM

Quote :

"Sooo.. Nick Cannon gets canned for anti-Semitic remarks but before that he was also being pretty hateful to white people. Is this going to be accepted behavior, that you can be hateful towards white folk unless you single out the Jews, in which you done"

You need to look up the word marginalized.

Quote :

"They don't need defending, but if a white person made those comments about anyone that wasn't white, you know the uproar it would bring."

Anytime you feel the need to take the "but if a white person did that" approach you just need to stop.

Quote :

". I would invite any black person to my home for dinner and they would perhaps like it or hate it"

GOLD STAR! GOLD FUCKING STAR!

[Edited on July 15, 2020 at 10:36 PM. Reason : But to be clear who is "they"? Your family or said black person?]

7/15/2020 10:35:51 PM

My family would welcome with open arms and I made that statement poorly. I was just pointing out different cultures and rituals and while my cooking is great most black families probably cook better than mine or my moms. I did make that too vague for understanding and meant no harm. I appreciate most posts here and appreciate the original post as a jumping point for my better understanding.

Before I get trolled for saying a black persons cooking please know I don’t mean that as a racist statement as it may seem. Just saying I appreciate the talents while I think I’m good. Most times I prefer the Mecca instead of big Ed’s because ... more soul and talent in the food and assume dinner at a black house may be better. All people are welcome I’m just not sure we would line up to a home cooked meal.

[Edited on July 16, 2020 at 2:08 PM. Reason : .]

7/16/2020 2:02:10 PM

I'm starting to pick up a Get Out vibe from Quicksilver. Trying to get unsuspecting blacks over to his home....

7/16/2020 2:06:43 PM

Not at all man. We would love to have you and you would be more than welcome and my family would appreciate your thoughts. There would be no issues. I actually appreciate your candor and your fair discussion. Funny though.

7/16/2020 2:10:47 PM

We actually really just hate on the dumb Redneck hunters that disobey our posted signs and shoot on our land when my mom is walking the dogs. Aside from that you will find no racial hatred.

7/16/2020 2:13:11 PM

Redneck is a race?

7/16/2020 2:24:13 PM

It is in eastern NC. It’s the guys who park at the end of your driveway and run dogs through your land and fire rifles over your land and scare the shit out of your parents who aren’t against guns but have asked them to not do it as I don’t want my mom shot. I worked fields and technically am a redneck likely. But I don’t appreciate the ones that do said action disobeying the posted signs which is why I was very specific on the redneck behavior that I don’t appreciate. I don’t hate all rednecks. Just the ones who don’t obey the laws and put my family in danger by skirting the law and a landowners right to ask you don’t do that.

They literally park on the edge of the road so they can’t be trespassed run dogs on our land and try to shoot deer from the road and collect them quickly because they know my pop will meet them with a shotgun when they accidentally whiz a bullet past my mom. They know the rules. They buck them lawfully til that shot fires and it’s dangerous.

[Edited on July 16, 2020 at 2:49 PM. Reason : .]

7/16/2020 2:43:39 PM

gotta love it when rhetorical question get answered

7/16/2020 2:45:13 PM

Gotta love when a troll posts with nothing to add but trolling.

7/16/2020 2:54:32 PM

Quote :

"But speaking more generally, when people of color tell tales of racism, listen to them and believe them. Don't try to argue with them, or minimize their experience. Don't try to convince them that they are imagining racism. Also, how often have you been around a group of white friends and family, and you heard someone say something racist? Did you shut that shit down, and either remove that racist from your presence or remove yourself? How often have you seen racist jokes, memes, or other media scroll across your newsfeed? Did you unfriend these people, or just kind of move along? "

I can't echo this sentiment enough. White people have a tendency to let these sort of microaggressions slide, and in doing so the lack of conflict or debate over them both normalizes their existence and hides from one's memory how prevalent this sort of behavior is.

I get it, stopping for 5 minutes during Thanksgiving to tell your mom her statements were bigoted doesn't sound like the best way to foster a family relationship, but if your family is going to detach from you because you voiced concern over the rights and fair treatment of minorities, then that is probably more telling.

It's a pure numbers game. People who claim to support equality and fair and equal protections under the law can do a lot more good by calling out the direct and subtextual racist and biased commentary of those in their social circles than by posting a BLM sign in their yard or even protesting.

And I'm not just talking about racist jokes and dropping the n-bomb. There is a lot of subtle language that goes into it-

e.g. the concept of white trash, implies that by nature whites are at an elevated status and that individual isn't living up to the standards of whiteness.

referring to a minority heavy part of town as bad without knowing if actual crime is present is extremely racist.

saying you don't want to see Tyler Perry not because his comedy is reductive but because it is for black people is racist.

asking the manager if they can order your granddaughter a new doll because only the black one left is racist. saying you'd rather not go back to a bar because it has 'turned',meaning black people started to patron it, is racist.

saying of course someone votes democrat because they are black, which implies blacks are incapable of making reasoned choices about who to vote for and only whites have made such a choice, is racist.

requesting off from your comedy club job when black comedians come in town because you don't want to make shitty tips all night is racist.

The list goes on and on. It isn't hard to find examples of this stuff if you speak to people from any political affiliation or any geographic region within the United States for long enough. If you're not seeing it, the only reason is that the behavior, and subtle white superiority, is so codified and normalized within even yourself that you don't identify the problem.

Looking for lynchings, n-bombs, and confederate flags and then admonishing them is as effective as combating the systemic elements of racism as opening your car window while smoking is at combating lung cancer. The smoke that on the outside that you easily see is just one small part of it, you need to focus on what's going on inside you and others and put an end to that shit.

7/16/2020 3:27:21 PM

I agree with this but I don’t pretend to feel what others feel. We can never be too aggressive towards each other or try to say we understand how others have a right to feel. I’ve learned a lot in this and have more to learn. Let’s all just be kind. I wear my mask but don’t want to. I agree police need to stop their behavior. I agree that people need to stop committing crimes. But I also agree people have the right to peaceful protest. Ask for the things our government is promising to provide. Demand them when refused but there has to be a better way on a path in a direction that we remove hate and violence and come together.

7/16/2020 3:46:29 PM

Quote :

"But I don't think America has ever really acknowledged the sin of slavery (in large) and accounted for it."

I don't even think it was slavery. It was the cult of white supremacy that built up around slavery and which was allowed to persist even after the practice was put down.

Most countries in the Western Hemisphere utilized slaves, some to a much larger extent than the United States. But while racism can be found in these places, it never got woven into the legal and institutional framework of the country like it did here. Brazil had slavery for a quarter century after the American Civil War ended, but in the 1950's - just when the American south was reaching the peak of Segregation - they were passing anti-racism laws.

Quote :

"But is this really America's reckoning with racism?"

Is it a reckoning in the sense of, "Let this be our final battle!" kind of deciding once and for all? No. But this is the first time I see really large swathes of white America looking inwardly at itself and thinking, "Shit, I think I'm racist, that's not good," whereas in the past the best outcome was getting some of them to think, "Shit, I think some people are racist, that's not good." That introspection is good. That's the only way to get at the mainstays of institutional racism.

What sucks is the pattern that all of these tragedies seems to follow. There's an initial wave of righteous outrage and attention to the problems of systemic racism. Then you get the double-whammy of complacency on the one hand (people join a protest, cut a check to the UNCF, or get rid of Aunt Jemimah and feel that they've done enough) and overreach on the other (the cancel-culture witch hunts, etc.). It's four steps forward and three steps back.

All the stuff you talk about will still happen (except for the Republicans silently encouraging racist undertones - they haven't been silent or subtle for a few years now), but I think the trend has bent a little sharper in the right direction.

Quote :

"Neither are racist."

We've got to move away from thinking of "racist" as describing people and towards thinking of it as describing actions, policies, and attitudes.

I believe that you aren't racist in the sense that you do not consciously believe that white people are superior to black people, which is the sense you think about it. But you have benefited from and likely support a number of governmental policies that are racist, and which were likely explicit in their racism when they came about. You also have racist attitudes. In that, you are like every other person alive today, so the good news is that you're not alone. The bad news is that the path to improving yourself and the society you live in requires that self-reflection I was talking about earlier, which can be very uncomfortable, because you have to honestly assess those attitudes, why you hold them, and how you can be rid of them.

For example:

Quote :

"I just helped a Mexican man buy toothpaste"

That's ... great? But a couple of things:

1) You know this dude's life story? He have a Mexican flag tattoo? Or was he a brown guy who speaks Spanish, ergo "Mexican"? Throwing around "Mexican" as a generic descriptor for Hispanic immigrants is one of those racist attitudes I was talking about.
2) Why do you think he had this problem? He's in a country with a fucked-up immigration system that likely takes away any incentive to learn English, since doing so might increase his exposure to deportation, or he's here as a migrant worker who is just going to have to back home soon anyway. Never mind the fact that migrant work as practiced in this country is just a Spanish-speaking, legal substitute for slavery.

How you treat other people is good, but how you look at and improve yourself is better.

7/16/2020 5:05:49 PM

I agree with everything you said. I know he was Mexican because he told me. I speak just enough Spanish to get by helping someone who can’t speak English to try to help when I have the opportunity. Was fluent at one time and a little dusty at it now but I was able to help this person. We all need to do this. We live in a society of great people and I respect and appreciate most everyone on this board. Why would it not be commonplace to have what little you can do to help someone else. The black ladies working in the store couldn’t understand his spanish and he couldn’t understand his English as he had none. So I tried to help him. How is that wrong or decisive. And I’m certainly not judging them for not knowing Spanish, I just tried to help someone out. It’s what we all should do.

7/16/2020 5:49:28 PM

Quote :

" The black ladies working in the store couldn’t understand his spanish and he couldn’t understand his English as he had none."

oh word?

7/16/2020 7:38:29 PM

Yea there's one of those little things that many of us white folks learned in our youth, why in that story did you think it important to note that the workers were black? I think alot of us growing up in the south grew up around adults that would tell stories that way where they were sure to point out when someone in the story was black even though it didn't add any plot to the story. It's otherization/tokenism (may be using one or both of those terms wrong, but you get the just). However on the other hand you also don't want to cancel out Black or non white stories. Highlight diversity to elevate non white voices, but don't use diversity just as like it's own plot point and nothing else.

I don't know if I'm making sense, I'm certainly no authority, I'm just attempting to pass on what I've heard from other voices.

7/16/2020 10:29:33 PM

Guys he's not racist he went to high school with 80% black students helped a Hispanic boy buy some toothpaste and would happily invite a black person into his home give him a break.

Judge him on that instead of the fact he thinks a man kneeling during a song with a stated intention is disrespecting the entire nation and indicates his hatred of the entire American populace hear him out.

7/16/2020 11:13:03 PM

I don't think much will come of all of this either. Maybe another round of affirmative action items that help us out with loans and such, but not much more. The whites will shun us even more claiming we're at an advantage and they're being treated unfairly. Round and round we go.

7/17/2020 9:22:15 AM

they will speak to minorities as being at an advantage or will continue to use speak in terms such as "I'm not racist because X but have you noticed Y about blacks?".

Even in the late 1800s and early 1900s, people used similar language. North Carolinians don't have to look far to find it, either.

Governor Aycock used to state that he wasn't racist because he defended black clients, but that it was inarguable that blacks were inferior to whites and that whites needed to rule over them. In towns where Blacks were beginning to make social and economic progress, poor and middle class whites expressed that blacks had distinct advantages over whites and thus should have made even more ground in the 30 years out of slavery.

Quote :

"After thirty years of opportunity, they have three percent of the property. True, they may claim that this is all net gain as they started with no property. But they did not start with nothing. They started with enormous advantages over whites. They were accustomed to labor. The whites were not. They had been for generations the producers of the State and the whites the consumers."

Yet, people buy into the same talking points over 100 years later.

7/17/2020 11:37:12 AM

Black vs black. America is imploding.

https://twitter.com/ShawnPatrick_22/status/1284612573686403073

Never heard of her before, but apparently she is a known activist. There is another video of her after her release, which I haven't watched yet, I think explaining why she did what she did. I don't know enough about her to make any judgments.

I feel bad for all the marginalized people in the US; they are the only ones who are suffering even through these protests. The rich and privileged hurt not one bit.

7/18/2020 10:28:09 PM

We need Elaine Benes, she's a "master of race relations."

7/18/2020 10:52:10 PM

^^
why in the fuck are you posting this weird right wing video. honestly where do you find this shit?

https://www.instagram.com/bevelynbeatty/

lmfao

[Edited on July 18, 2020 at 11:06 PM. Reason : .]

7/18/2020 11:05:08 PM

I thought Kendall Jenner solved all of this when she handed that cop a Pepsi in the commercial...

7/19/2020 7:54:46 PM

7/20/2020 1:44:19 PM

Accepting that I don’t know exactly what that video means but I would like to.

7/20/2020 1:56:25 PM