https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/06/10/thats-our-word-and-you-cant-have-it-back-ice-cube-confronts-bill-maher-for-using-the-n-word/

Interesting episode last night on Real Time. After watching the Dyson and Cube interviews I can see that race relations will always be an issue. I can't see it getting better in our lifetime.

Interesting takeaways: Maher is a 61 yr old white male and he couldn't just take his licks, he had to keep trying to explain himself. Very few of his peers are "woke", so I kinda not surprised he was so much on the defensive.

Point two: This is more of a self-reflection thing. I grew up in predominantly black school (65 - 70%) and played sports up through HS. I aways got along with my black peers but our friendships ended once school was over.

Not gonna lie- I used to say nigger a lot. I'd tell myself I was saying "nigga" but I knew better to say either around my black team/classmates. Cube's whole point about white folks who think it's OK because they're "down with the cause" doesn't mean shit. That made me cringe... thinking about my own actions in the past.

Point three: Ice Cube has made his fortune using the n word in songs and movies. Is that art? What about comedy? Comedians hang their hat on the idea that nothing is off limits- it's part of their craft. Something doesn't sit right that we (society- not me) can make jokes about the holocaust, rape, 9/11; but when the n word comes out of the mouth of a non black person and the world stops.

Point three-b: Black folks must really have been pissed off when Michael Richards fucked up. They wanted Maher's head on a plate.

6/10/2017 12:39:52 PM

The conventional wisdom regarding this rule is so confusing nowadays that it is not really worth anybody's time to go on about it.

And if you are gonna talk about it, it is more about context than it is about race. It is certainly not only limited to "black rappers", because white bro Paul Wall also made a fortune using the n word.

It is also not limited to white racists either, because inner city black cops are often accused of using nigger in a derogatory and offensive manner.


There are just so many silly semantics regarding how it is used now, that it doesn't make any logical sense anymore. Seeing as how rap has exploded across the entire globe, spanding many different cultures and languages, I honestly feel that black rappers are perpetuating this argument and their ownership of this word as a means to stay relevant.



[Edited on June 10, 2017 at 1:13 PM. Reason : a]

6/10/2017 1:05:20 PM

But can I say it when I'm rapping to myself in the car, alone, by myself in the car?

CAN I???

I can't make it through All Eyez On me, especially through Shorty Wanna be a Thug, if I can't say it.

6/10/2017 9:55:53 PM

Leaked footage of rjrumfel in the car rapping:

6/10/2017 10:38:20 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDHt9xzJZp0

got to watch it to the end. Very relevant to the topic.

6/11/2017 3:40:14 AM

i just want the rules to be the same for everyone. you know, equality

6/11/2017 6:59:33 AM

Quote :

"because white bro Paul Wall also made a fortune using the n word."

When did he use the n word? I tried to google it but only found quotes of him saying it was unacceptable for anyone to use the word.

6/11/2017 7:14:17 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13QheW-JRHk

First example that comes to my mind.

I am going through some Builders and the Butchers right now and don't feel like switching from Country to Houston Rap to find some other examples.

6/11/2017 7:51:13 AM

^jesus h christ who in the hell actually enjoys listening to that shit?

i mean, i understand different strokes for different folks and all that, but i don't understand this one

[Edited on June 11, 2017 at 8:59 AM. Reason : fads]

6/11/2017 8:58:06 AM

I have decided to substitute "pizza" when I'm rapping along, e.g. "shame on a pizza who tried to run game on a pizza." It's a lot of fun.

6/11/2017 9:22:54 AM

Seems like just don't say it if you're white. Not really that hard.

6/11/2017 9:25:43 AM

"was a nice middle class pizza, but no one knew, the evil he do, when he got a little bigga"

6/11/2017 9:26:46 AM

As for singing along to rap music, Chris Rock covered this years ago.

Quote :

"What are the Dr. Dre Rules? What are the rules when a Dr. Dre song comes on the radio or plays at a club, what is the procedure that goes into effect? Because sometimes I'm with my white friends and a Dr. Dre song comes on and there's a lot of 'niggers' in a Dr. Dre song. And they want to enjoy it, but they can't really enjoy it around me. So they start taking out the 'niggers' or mumbling the 'niggers' and it's just a sad sight to see. It's just sad to see a white person try to do a nigger-less rendition of a Dr. Dre song, it's just fuckin' depressing. And they're trying to rap along without saying 'nigger' and they're like 'Creeping down the backstreet on dees I got my glock cocked cause-I-don't-know-what-the fuck-to-say!' 'Tat-tat-tat like that, and I never hesitate to put a-ha-ha-ha-ha' But I know when I'm not there, they lean into that shit, 'he's not here, turn it up - down the backstreet on dees I got my glock cocked cause NIGGER!' 'Tat-tat-tat like that, and I never hesitate to put a NIGGER ON HIS BACK-AND KILL HIM, I HATE NIGGERS!' 'Hey man, that's not even in the song.' 'I got a little carried away, I'm sorry about that, they should put it in, they really should.' Don't worry white people, get your Dre on; get your Dre on, get your Jay on, get your Kanye on. It's alright, it's all good, it's okay; it's got to be in the song, though." -Chris Rock, "Kill The Messenger."

If it's in the song, you're good!

[Edited on June 11, 2017 at 10:11 AM. Reason : .]

6/11/2017 10:10:54 AM

The word is just an overused word in rap culture. The difference is the context. When used as a very specific reference to slavery it crosses the line to offensive. This was an example of that. Mahr was wrong. If he called Someone "his nigga" on a show meaning they were friends no one would give a shit. But saying what he said undermines the realness and pain of American slavery and takes it from being a word to being harmful speech. I hate political correctness but I also feel people should have the ability to know right or wrong when they speak. An educated person should know that certain words that can be lighthearted can be used in extremely offensive ways. His entire career is based off of this and he shit the bed and showed real racism with his comment. As a white man It is never appropriate to use that word in reference to slavery in a joke and if you intend to use it in another way, tread lightly. This isnt hard.

[Edited on June 11, 2017 at 10:25 AM. Reason : .]

6/11/2017 10:24:12 AM

Quote :

"When used as a very specific reference to slavery it crosses the line to offensive."

OK you clearly haven't been paying attention. If it's said in any context by a white person blacks lose their mind, with very limited exceptions for non-black rappers who have an "honorary hood pass". You could even be saying the word "niggardly" and people would lose their mind (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_about_the_word_%22niggardly%22#David_Howard_incident).

[Edited on June 11, 2017 at 11:02 AM. Reason : ...]

6/11/2017 11:00:44 AM

I honestly just don't give a shit any more. If I am at a Bar/Club/Restaurant and a Jay-Z song is on and I say the N-word singing along and somebody gets offended, I just take out a photo of my son and his mom and say " just ask her if I am a racist" and then I move on with my life.

It really has gotten absurd. People should be able to sing along to a song on the radio without being accused of being a racist. I mean, that song is making money because people like it and listen to it.

6/11/2017 12:53:24 PM

Not only has that never happened, it never will happen.

6/11/2017 1:22:14 PM

Random thoughts:

Everybody's at least a little racist deep down.

Even the most seemingly progressive white people can turn nastily racist on you if you piss them off.

White people are often oblivious to the experiences and feelings of others, and they have no clue how annoying they can be.

Basically, if you're asking for permission to say the N-word, just keep in mind there are plenty of black people who'd rather not hear your voice at all ever, N-word or no.

6/11/2017 1:51:12 PM

Quote :

"I can see that race relations will always be an issue. I can't see it getting better in our lifetime. "

Only because leftism/marxism has taken over academia/media/hollywood. It's just an inevitability of the regressive left's identity politics. You sensationalize any anecdotal case of a black thug getting shot, and soon enough every gullible idiot is convinced 2017 American society is racist.

6/11/2017 3:02:17 PM

Quote :

"Everybody's at least a little racist deep down. Even the most seemingly progressive white people can turn nastily racist on you if you piss them off."

You are speaking for yourself but don't speak for all "white people". Thats kind of what racism is. Sure a lot are but when you start speaking for an entire race, your racism starts to look a lot less "deep down"

6/11/2017 3:16:17 PM

It's almost as if identity politics are fucking stupid, huh?

6/11/2017 3:24:08 PM

Not sure what xience's post was meant to accomplish aside from defending the use of the slur or state that the word the word "niggardly" shouldnt be grouped in with the slur. Umm. This seems like common sense. If you really cant find a synonym that might not spark a negative feeling and must use niggardly, that cool.. If it means that much to you its your right.

[Edited on June 11, 2017 at 3:58 PM. Reason : .]

6/11/2017 3:32:26 PM

6/11/2017 4:21:57 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c3P9bi8HyE

6/11/2017 4:30:57 PM

If i understood the rap correctly she is V-Nasty, she is heavy gouda, and she went to the beach to "air that thang out?"

6/11/2017 4:39:22 PM

Outside of singing of a rap song why do y'all want permission to say the n word?

6/11/2017 4:41:36 PM

She probably only dates white guys

6/11/2017 4:51:45 PM

Quote :

"You are speaking for yourself but don't speak for all "white people". Thats kind of what racism is. Sure a lot are but when you start speaking for an entire race, your racism starts to look a lot less "deep down""

I've always been overly comfortable with generalizations, and I am extra reckless since Trump was elected.

Still, I do a halfway decent job of remembering to use qualifiers like "some" and "a lot."

I also would never attempt to speak for an entire race, and I very clearly didn't...so I don't know what you're flapping your gums about.

6/11/2017 4:59:43 PM

Quote :

"Interesting takeaways: Maher is a 61 yr old white male and he couldn't just take his licks, he had to keep trying to explain himself. Very few of his peers are "woke", so I kinda not surprised he was so much on the defensive. "

Yeah ice cube was trying to explain, but Maher wouldn't accept that he was a product of systemic racism. The fact he even feels the need to interject racial commentary/observations when that's not even remotely at issue demonstrates this.

We are all susceptible to this... we can't really help the culture/environment we grow up in, but we can try to seek a better understanding of how to understand our fellow man a bit more.

It's like the transgender issue... i always grew up making fun of 'trannies,' even after learning to accept the gays, i never thought much of the transgender community until they started to demand proper treatment.

Not sure why Americans, especially white people, can't just admit they just never thought about racism that much and try to understand the marginalization of non whites in America. It's not a moral failing to admit you harbor racism, it's a moral failing to insist it's impossible for you to do so.

6/11/2017 5:08:32 PM

Quote :

"I also would never attempt to speak for an entire race, and I very clearly didn't"

Uh, you did. You spoke for all humans, and last time checked, whites are humans. But you also spoke for whites specifically. Go look at your post.

Quote :

"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_about_the_word_%22niggardly%22#David_Howard_incident "

The two words have completely different origins and are completely unrelated.

That's just very messed up and shows the offended person's ignorance and lack of knowledge. Or, if they know the origin [of the word], it shows they are a snowflake and are offended by words that rhyme with or sound similar to offensive words.

6/11/2017 6:21:17 PM

Quote :

"Not sure what xience's post was meant to accomplish aside from defending the use of the slur or state that the word the word "niggardly" shouldnt be grouped in with the slur. Umm. This seems like common sense. If you really cant find a synonym that might not spark a negative feeling and must use niggardly, that cool.. If it means that much to you its your right."

I was rebutting your claim that using the word in a slavery context is what gets you in trouble. Any white person using the word in any context gets in deep shit. It's so bad that even words that sound like nigger but aren't related at all cause people to lose their minds.

6/11/2017 6:36:47 PM

everybody just needs to harden the fuck up

[Edited on June 11, 2017 at 6:59 PM. Reason : feelings are for love stories and little girls]

6/11/2017 6:48:30 PM

When I went to China for the first time, I knocked out half a billion people before I realized the chinese version of "uhh..." sounded exactly like the n word.

6/11/2017 6:56:26 PM

Quote :

"Any white person using the word in any context gets in deep shit."

care to give a context in which it's an appropriate word to use?

bonus points for anything outside of quoting someone

6/11/2017 7:04:53 PM

Not only is it never appropriate, there's never really a time when it's necessary. We all know the word is going to illicit a strong reaction. So it seems to me, you'd really only ever say it because you're fishing for a reaction. Whether it's because you're a raging racist or maybe you're simply going for "shock". Like, you know people will generally think it's a terrible idea to say the word, and if you still say it it's because you're trying to prove something or get a rise out of everybody. It's rarely (or never) appropriate and certainly not necessary.

6/11/2017 7:21:43 PM

unless you're black

and then it's art

6/11/2017 7:27:35 PM

you're smarter than that

6/11/2017 7:34:20 PM

^^^ is that directed at all humans or only at non-black humans?

also, elicit.

6/11/2017 7:39:20 PM

Quote :

"Uh, you did. You spoke for all humans, and last time checked, whites are humans. But you also spoke for whites specifically. Go look at your post."

No, I didn't. In fact, most of my post is generalizations about white people, not anything on behalf of white people.

I obfuscate a little, but I'm not that cryptic, guys.

6/11/2017 7:43:16 PM

OK you are right.

You made a generalization about all humans. And a few about all whites.

6/11/2017 7:51:05 PM

know who gets to make the rules on the use of that word?

the people who had it directed at them in an effort to strip them of their humanity for multiple centuries.

why do they get to make the rules?

because they do.

[Edited on June 11, 2017 at 7:59 PM. Reason : fuck outta here with the use of art as a pejorative, too]

6/11/2017 7:58:26 PM

I guess it's settled, then.

[/thread]

6/11/2017 8:03:54 PM

do you have a counter argument?

6/11/2017 8:05:32 PM

^dividing people into groups based on skin color is wrong

6/11/2017 8:10:20 PM

that's deep, man

6/11/2017 8:28:32 PM

^^^No. Actually, I agree with you.

It was in response to "why do they get to make the rules? because they do." Haha! I knew it wouldn't settle anything for those that seem to want to argue about this.

It's pretty clear there's never an appropriate time to use it. Adapt your behavior and move on, or accept the consequences coming your way if you flout conventions. Simple.

6/11/2017 8:45:07 PM

Can Hispanics use the word?

6/11/2017 10:27:11 PM

if they're black, yeah

6/11/2017 10:59:50 PM

what about non-black Hispanics, like B-Real or Fat Joe

6/11/2017 11:59:47 PM

set em up

6/12/2017 12:05:26 AM