Doing some market research for a potential gaming cafe.

Close to NC State, maybe a bit up Hillsborough.. toward Jones Franklin/Western Ave intersection.


It looks like a slightly smaller scale version of this https://goo.gl/photos/j2RSN5fQnZyRqfCj7

Each of the terminals are powered by 1080's with I7-7700k and GTX 1080 8GB (all identical) 32gb of RAM.

Also there's a separate area with 4-6 Oculus or similar VR headsets on more powerfull rigs (think crossfire).


Here's the question.
What is this worth to you?

An environment in which you can bring friends and play on similar if not more powerful machines than you have at home, playing Lol or WOW for hours. maybe there's a console section as well.

You re-up your timecard, they are as follows.
3 Hours
12 Hours
24 Hours


For these 3 time cards.. realistically, at what price points would you consider reasonable.. or "worth checking out" (especially if there were a rolling calendar of tournaments, clans regional clans were forming, the place had rocksolid 1GB+ fiber up and down..etc.)

see http://www.infernoonline.com/ for the source of inspiration.

What would make you come back to the place? or frequent the gaming hall? what would deter you?

I'm looking for feedback because its something i'm seriously considering.
any real feedback would be appreciated.

2/7/2017 6:13:53 PM

nerds.png

2/7/2017 6:16:43 PM

Raleigh already had an ESA.

2/7/2017 6:17:49 PM

Where?

2/7/2017 6:22:37 PM

What will set yours apart from all the failed attempts?

2/7/2017 6:23:12 PM

all that and not a woman in sight

2/7/2017 6:25:36 PM

Good question, I'd prefer to source the community for insight into what would be the difference-maker regarding this potential place and failed attempts (or existing venues) before it.

I helped launch a lounge, with no experience in the bar/nightclub industry and i listened to the community regarding "what was missing" in that scene, and implemented it.

I would take the same approach with this venture, its not for me to say what differentiates it from other venues.. so much as it will be my responsibility to listen and ensure that it exceeded expectations..

[Edited on February 7, 2017 at 6:28 PM. Reason : edit..]

2/7/2017 6:27:24 PM

college students are just too broke to fund the money it would require hourly to keep it running.

Multiple people have tried up and down hillsborough since I started at state, they all failed eventually bc the pay per hour model is just too cumbersome when you can do the same shit at home for free.

I really wish this model worked here but it just doesn't seem to I really do wish you luck, would be cool

2/7/2017 6:29:30 PM

in raking my brain, the pay per hour concept seems like the biggest deterrent.

I'm beginning to think that the "Gym" format would work better... you pay for access to the gym, you can come and go whenever you please..

in this case, you would pay a monthly membership for unlimited hours outside of peak hours.. something i've been considering.

2/7/2017 6:31:26 PM

the previous ESA was OFF THE CHAIN. And it was yuggggggggggggggggggggggggge.

2/7/2017 6:32:03 PM

if you want to make money with a bunch of computers in a strip mall gambling needs to be involved somehow

2/7/2017 7:09:08 PM

will BAWLS be a drink option?

2/7/2017 7:35:31 PM

Instead of wasting you savings, why don't you just work a charity

2/7/2017 8:00:34 PM

private rooms for small groups?

there are a few high ranked dota/lol/whatever-the-fuck-it's-called teams at ncsu i think

2/7/2017 8:02:16 PM

Battle & Brew makes it work in Atlanta

2/7/2017 11:16:51 PM

I don't think gaming cafes are a sustainable business.

To be a customer you have to already be a gamer, and to be a gamer you have to already have invested in your own personal PC/console. It's like offering people to come take a nap in one of 50 beds when they already have their own bed at home for free.

Don't get me wrong, playing Halo 2 Lan at the Gamefrog cafe 100 years ago was fun as fuck, I just don't think it would be profitable, unless you had big tournaments every day or something to draw people in and give them a reason to play there instead of from their own place.

2/7/2017 11:20:20 PM

They are sustainable in niche areas. I've been to this one (https://www.google.com/search?q=battle+brew+atlanta&oq=battle+brew+atlanta&aqs=chrome.0.0l2.1672j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8).

Still standing.

2/7/2017 11:32:37 PM

ok, take my input for what it is worth as I am not your target audience (not a gamer now that I have kids), but here is what would appeal to me and keep me coming back.

- chance to meet new people or test my skills against local people (not some 10 year old kids screaming profanity), network with people with similar interests
- try out new games, spot new trends, see new gear
- would you do any FIFA type gaming? I know my brother used to go play at a bar every week even though he could play people online. There is something more satisfying about winning in person than winning anonymously online
- could you supplement hourly gym rates by selling booze, food, gear?

You need to find a way to differentiate yourself from what people can do at home. Would you have monitors (large tv) so you could watch matches in live action (even though I know I can't compete with all the l33t people, I still enjoy watching how other people with skill play)
- could you create events to watch big matches between the pros (like people go to the bar to watch a big game?)

- any ways to partner with groups already established in Raleigh? during the day when gamers may not be around, could other groups that need computer setups rent your space (or target local companies with gamer employees to do work events)?

I've never been to a gamer cafe, but I happened to be doing an event at the convention center during one of the gaming expos a few years ago. I enjoyed watching what was going on around me.

- could you sponsor groups at high schools to spread the word about your space? My friends and I would have been all over that idea during high school and college, and we were just casual gamers that loved playing starcraft

[Edited on February 7, 2017 at 11:59 PM. Reason : more ideas]

2/7/2017 11:57:18 PM

Honestly, a board game cafe is probably a better option. Board games are making huge growths in popularity year after year.

2/8/2017 12:03:50 AM

Love board games

2/8/2017 12:08:08 AM

Quote :

"the pay per hour model is just too cumbersome when you can do the same shit at home for free."

sounds about right to me.

best of luck tho

^, ^^ also, I too am aware of a thriving board game cafe

[Edited on February 8, 2017 at 12:21 AM. Reason : ^]

2/8/2017 12:20:09 AM

Speaking of board games - any of you ever play Hero Quest?

2/8/2017 12:22:52 AM

I did some research on this a while back. Basically what it came down to is you will never make money on any of the games and such. You have to treat it like a movie theater where you make money off over priced food and drinks. Also if you have more than 2-3 employees you probably arent gonna turn a profit off the food and drinks so as the owner expect to put in like 60 hours a week yourself. Most people are not willing to pay for time at places like this despite what they may say.

If you decide to do this your best bet is likely some sort of membership sorta like a gym. You have to price it in a way that you end up with a lot of people who sign up but don't show up that often and it isnt enough per month to feel like that have to cancel it because they might use it again at some point. So figure around $20 a month. Then you need to do the math and look at your overhead versus how many people you think you can realistically get to signup for something like that. The math didnt make sense to me so I dropped the idea. If I ever win the lottery I will likely do something like this because it would be awesome but under the assumption I just want to break even haha.

*I didnt read all of the thread first so some of this stuff may have already been mentioned.

2/8/2017 8:28:27 AM

I think you might have a better chance if you tied it in with some sort of bar/arcade concept. For example, the Baxter over here in Chapel Hill is doing quite well for itself. It has tons of old arcades and charges a quarter to play. They make their money on the bar sales. It would probably be ludicrous to try and add that to an E-Sports place, but I bet you could get some nerdy folks to come out and watch tournaments and stuff if you had a nice projector setup to watch and a bar to drink. I really enjoy The Baxter, but it would be bonkers if they had some e-sports stuff.

2/8/2017 8:40:05 AM

There used to be a virtual arena here. What happened to it?

2/8/2017 9:09:49 AM

^^^^ not in a long time, and I'm not dropping hundreds of dollars to pick up a copy now for mainly nostalgia. There are much better dungeon crawl games published now

2/8/2017 9:39:07 AM

Does arena imply selling seats? I'm thinking concessions, season tickets, box seats. Maybe get some book keeping action.

2/8/2017 10:47:40 AM

Yeah I dont see how you make money just renting computers to losers and nerds who all own computers themselves... If you could merge this idea with some sort of bar concept (fun, social interaction) and make money off alcohol & food it might work.

People do not go to bars just to get drinks. Everyone knows they can drink at home way cheaper. They go for the social interaction, to have fun, to meet people, etc. I do not think you can make a profit renting computers to people to sit in little computer cubbies and do the same exact shit they do at their fucking house. It needs to have add value in some way to get them to put on clothes and leave the house if they are gamer. Would help if you can figure out a way for it not to be a total sausage party too... but with gamers that is a long shot.

2/8/2017 11:14:53 AM

My idea revolved around hiring hot girls to waitress/flirt etc as a means to attract people but paying more than 2-3 people yourself included quickly made the math not work so that idea went away quick haha

2/8/2017 11:19:25 AM

Yes. Cocktail waitresses would be a must to give the customers a good experience but they are not going to work for free. The gamers are not gonna eat and drink that much while playing so that could be a problem... For some reason people will drink more alcohol drinks back to back than energy drinks.

2/8/2017 11:22:18 AM

Quote :

"There used to be a virtual arena here. What happened to it? "

two infact ... both failed. I worked/marketed with the first guys that opened when i was in college. Basically i traded man power and time for time on the computers cause their internet was fast as fuck (not much of a commodity these days).

The guys who started "The Tek" (the first cafe) eventually just sold the store and the video gards and peripherals etc from the computers and used them to start a webhosting and logistics business cause that was way more profitable. I lost contact with them so no idea how that turned out.

Quote :

" losers and nerds"

2/8/2017 11:22:18 AM

if there were some setup for media creation it would be a place my wife and i would checkout as long as everything wasn't nerded out in colorful led gaming everything and mountain dew. for that i might pay $20 for 3 hours

2/8/2017 1:16:34 PM

yeah if it was a kinkos he'd totally check it out

2/8/2017 1:42:58 PM

kinkos has old computers that are good enough for editing a PDF or word document, not editing HD video

2/8/2017 1:46:01 PM

What HD video are you.making with your wife?

2/8/2017 2:25:32 PM

Yeah VR porn is where its at now you are behind the times

2/8/2017 2:26:45 PM

it needs food, alcohol, and to overlap with other stuff like magic drafts, table top. it basically needs to be adults only after 5 or 6. also, no one's going to come in and play a 1 player game, so you need to have all the top multiplayer games preloaded and free with my time. im not coming to play my steam library. i'd also have classes there, for things like development, animation, 3d printing, VR. im thinking the value to me would be to try out tech stuff before making a huge investment in a social setting, or a place to drink and play multiplayer stuff with my friends without all the headache of setting up a lan

2/8/2017 2:30:56 PM

Create a promotional event called a "comic book store" and/or "bar for nerds" that runs all the time and then only do your original idea occasionally.

[Edited on February 8, 2017 at 2:36 PM. Reason : .]

2/8/2017 2:33:52 PM

Quote :

"Yeah I dont see how you make money just renting computers to losers and nerds who all own computers themselves... If you could merge this idea with some sort of bar concept (fun, social interaction) and make money off alcohol & food it might work. "

I don't agree that PC gamer are necessarily losers/nerds but I do agree that they most likely own their own machines or would otherwise spend the money they would have on membership dues on financing parts to build one.

A bar concept would be cool but Boxcar, etc. draw a lot from the nostalgia factor and the simplicity/familiarity of those games. You'd be looking at a really small target audience. I also don't think that even if you could get gamers to come out in public that the majority of them would drink alcohol or you would derive enough profit from that.

As much as I'd love to see it work, I just can't imagine this being viable in Raleigh and history has proven that to be true.

I think you'd have to go really big and basically be a gamer mecca for the state/region. Basically have a computer parts store that specialized in gaming, sell all sorts of video games and have LAN setups to do events across multiple platforms, have a bar, food, have old school arcade games, board games, etc. Could even try to organize conventions or MLG tournaments that are sanctioned. You'd really have to create a community around it.

2/8/2017 3:26:41 PM

Fwiw the last video game I was remotely good at was donkey king country on Super Nintendo.

2/8/2017 10:46:45 PM

^^ the compusa tried on glen wood long ago... they held quals for lots of major tournies. But that failed as well

2/8/2017 10:53:26 PM

I remember all the BAWLS for sale when The Tek closed shop.

2/8/2017 11:10:39 PM

2/9/2017 8:59:15 AM

Definitely more interested in board game cafe than esports cafe.

Make your money and concessions and alcohol, especially alcohol.

2/9/2017 10:28:17 AM

2/9/2017 7:49:04 PM

Interestingly enough, I was evaluating the location by Brickhouse (the old Royal Bank Building).

The is all really great feedback, and i appreciate it very much.

i've applied all of these comments and feedback to my notes..


Looking to do a smaller version of whats spurring up in Charlotte.. maybe a satellite hub that battles competitively with Western Carolina's pending mega-Esports center.

I'll probably apply an 18+ facility that serves alcohol with no expectation to do anything other than breaking even.
Daily tournaments are a must...
and a large "Arena like" impressive facility vs renting out a slot in the mall seems to be a gamechanger as well.


http://www.charlottestories.com/worlds-largest-esports-center-moving-charlotte/

i'll keep everyone posted regarding whether this takes off in the next few months or if we just revert to opening another freaking bar.

2/11/2017 11:57:20 AM

The "Battle & Brew" thing in Atlanta is doing something right... #brb #GoingtoATL

2/11/2017 12:03:36 PM

open this instead:
https://bricksandminifigs.com/franchise/

2/12/2017 7:59:14 AM

i wish i was independently wealthy so i could do weird shit like open a bootleg lego store

2/12/2017 11:21:20 AM

yeah we have been exploring opportunities and someone mailed that to me and I was like "wtf, why would you need a franchise for that?" and "assuming the location they used for the website is the best looking store, how terrible are the others?"

but i would totally shop there though

2/12/2017 2:13:40 PM