Since there was some hoopla about this in a couple of threads, I’m posting my views in a central location.

Let me start by saying that the two 240SXs I’ve ridden in and one I’ve had the pleasure of drifting were just fantastic experiences. I love drifting, and I’m not half as good as some of the people here on TWW. That said, though the 240 seems to make a great drift cars on a relative budget, I don’t think they’re particularly suitable for track work. Though, feel free to correct me... I freely admit I’m extrapolating from my experience and going on educated guesses.

240 track chassis:
This issue seems to come up from time to time. You mileage may vary, but I am of the opinion that starting with a platform that was meant to be driven hard for a prolonged period of time tends to work out better than a car that is heavily modified for the purpose. A lot of 240 fans say that they’re fantastic, and can be used on track with a few mods, and I was interested for a bit, however, here’s the thoughts that I have;

Rear axles: I see 240SXs’ go through rear axles often. If you’re going to be driving on track for 30+mins at a time with 2X (or more) power than stock, this is a problem.

Engine cooling: Sticking a larger radiator into the engine bay and hoping for the best may not be adequate. Never mind that most modified 240’s are drift cars and don’t need an actual cooler so much as a heat sink, as drift runs are rarely much longer than a minute, two tops. If you have a larger, and thick enough radiator, you may want to consider what to do with the ductwork. On track airflow management is important.

Brakes: 300ZX TT brake upgrades seem to be common, however keep in mind an effective solution would not be just a caliper/rotor upgrade. There’s things like brake bias to consider, especially as the chassis is loaded, then we go into how sophisticated the ABS system may or may not be, not to mention brake cooling. As a side note, the 300ZX TT is an underbraked car. I recognize it’s a heavier chassis, but it was also limited to 300hp and had SOME cooling. The nose of a 240 with a giant intercooler and bigger than stock radiator is going to be fighting for space in this department.

Cooling continued: The 240 does not come with a spray lubricated transmission, let alone a transmission cooler. Rear diff is also not cooled, I don’t think there’s even cooling fins on it. If you intend to double the stock output, and drive it on track, may need a transmission cooler AND a differential cooler, not to mention different differential mounting all together.

Other: Let’s say we’ve taken care of the above, you also need to worry about things like wheel bearings. It’s one thing to auto-x a car, or drift it, another to corner at 1+G on a track at 130+ for half an hour or more and hope that the bearings are up to it.

I did not get into things like oil and fuel starvation, power steering cooling, and external aero management, suspension geometry and so on.

I’d LOVE to find a cheap, tough platform to put on a race track, but my experience always seems to point to pay to play. You can keep most sports cars (240 included I imagine) drivable on track with a handful of mods, but as you go faster, it takes more work... and money. Having done 100s of track events now, I think there’s a reason you see tons of Corvettes, Porsches, BMWs and Miatas, with relatively few of anything else out there. 7-10 years ago, I used to see a handful of RX-7s with the Mazda club, in my younger days I used to take bets on how many of them would make it through a weekend with the same engine. As the numbers of RX-7s dropped, % of them with LS swaps went up, but alas, it must’ve been 3 years since I’ve seen ANY RX-7 on track. :/ Again, I think a swap that looks great while you browse message boards from your couch, doesn’t end up working out in the real world. Shame, what a FANTASTIC car.

2/17/2015 11:18:24 PM

Jesus

2/17/2015 11:31:18 PM

whats the point of this thread exactly

2/17/2015 11:39:26 PM

it saved me some time. A++, would read again.

2/18/2015 1:21:43 AM

Well...I would think most experienced trackers/racers are aware of all its limitations, but budget only allows so much, or perhaps they just like the car because it was their first sporty car or something of similar sentimental value. Also, if you think about consumables like tires and pads, 240's low weight does keep the costs down as oppose to 3500lb+ cars that eat through tires and brakes.

On a different topic, I do wonder how much some of these people understand when they put 600lb+ springs and r-comps on a car that has torsional rigidity of a wet noodle. Obsession over making everything super stiff and low without much consideration about damping, corner balancing etc. I doubt anyone does finite element analysis to see how should chassis and suspension be optimized after gutting out 150lb from rear of their 240sx or e36 m3 for that matter. Reality is that any newer, say, post '07 car like Kia Forte (or similar shitbox) would make a better platform/chassis for track given the same mods. It is likely more rigid with quite a few more seam welds than any 90's car.

2/18/2015 4:24:29 AM

are you trying to tell me a 15 year old $500 chassis isn't going to compete with a race-bred German imports?!
I find this hard to believe

2/18/2015 9:06:55 AM

^ +1.

You're way overthinking this. Take a deep breath.

It's an old entry-level sports car with an FR layout. It costs a couple grand. It has aftermarket parts to the moon and back. It's fun to drive. It's easy to work on.

It's not a Metallic Dolphin Dick Grey Pearl E73 Enthusiast Package with optional Electronic Brake Pad Temperature Control.

It's just a cheap 240.

2/18/2015 9:15:28 AM

How about an FC RX7?

2/18/2015 9:41:49 AM

a cheap beater car is not as good as some much more expensive car that was designed for occasional track days? shocked.

2/18/2015 12:04:22 PM

I don’t know chassis rigidity # off the top of head, but I do remember that the e36 is a wet noodle compared to almost anything modern. In fact, even though it’s improved quite a bit, an e46 is also not great either...

Anyway, I’m not saying that "the 240 isn’t a great platform to go head to head with a McLaren P1". What I am saying is that for a track car, even with a budget of $10k and looking at 15+ year old cars, there’s better platforms. Like the e36 M3.

At $5k I’d gravitate towards an e30 325i or a Miata, and at $15k I’d gravitate towards an e46 M or C5 Corvette. But, these are my opinions.

2/18/2015 12:43:26 PM

FYI, to clear up a few of your initial points,

The stock axles are fine and can hold 400+ easily. It's when you lower the car a bunch (like dump it far lower than needed for track driving) that the CV joints reach their articulation limits and crack their CV casings. That's by far the most common way that axles break. Rzeppa style axles came on some J30s and are a direct bolt-in in some cases. Easy junkyard upgrade. And there are adapter plates to use newer/better 350Z axles as well. And oviously there are aftermarket axles too.

Diffs are strong enough to hold the power of boosted LSX swaps. No concerns there. J30s came with VLSDs that are a direct bolt-in for S13s and S14s. Some S15s came with helical diffs, also a direct bolt-in. Aftermarket companies make 1-, 1.5-, and 2-way diffs as well, all readily available. There are a half dozen ring and pinion ratios to choose from between Q45s, J30s, S13s/S14s, etc, all direct bolt-ins since they share the same R200 diff.

Engine cooling really isn't a huge issue, especially on N/A 240s. Alum radiator and e-fans are typically enough.

Brake upgrades are super easy. J30 fronts are direct bolt-on, Q45 fronts are direct bolt-on, Z32 front and rear are direct bolt-on, there are a slew of aftermarket adapters for Evo brakes, STI brakes, CTS-V brakes, off the shelf Brembos, etc. There are also rear adapter brackets and full new rear knuckles to allow dual rear calipers for drift guys wanting a hydro e-brake.

ABS is an uncommon option on S13s and somewhat so on S14s. As a general rule of thumb, no one wants it. Same with the HICAS option on S13s.

The stock trans is fine to/beyond 350 ft-lbs. If/when it actually breaks, there are plenty of adapters to use Z32, CD009, R154, T56 transmissions, etc.

Suspension geometry has been beaten to death. There are multiple companies that offer drop knuckles and roll center correction knuckles for the front and the rear. Some are forged, some are welded steel, some are billet aluminum with all adjustable pick-up points, etc. Not to mention every style of adjustable arm imaginable.



If you're genuinely interested in knowing more, skip Zilvia and NICO, and head over to NissanRoadRacing.com


[Edited on February 18, 2015 at 1:21 PM. Reason : .]

2/18/2015 1:19:11 PM

have you seen e30 prices lately? i wouldn't get an e30, all of the nice ones are overpriced.

2/18/2015 1:28:46 PM

^^good stuff

2/18/2015 2:37:19 PM

IBT NMSJ. Pagin' H8R

2/18/2015 4:37:40 PM

Nissan does, in fact, Make Some Fucking Junk.

But you can improve upon it to make it less of some fucking junk.

240's and Silvia's can be pretty hot and fun to drive, if they are built right.

But please keep your raggedy-assed Altima, 24" wheel-havin Maxima and Nissan gonna void your warranty gameboy GT-R shit outta my face.

kthx

2/18/2015 5:52:31 PM

That’s good stuff, thanks for posting! Indeed keeping in mind limitations, perhaps my exposure to the drifty side is clouding my judgement, and I really do want one (to be fair, in large part b/c I really like the ones on TWW). But, I do find it hard to imagine that, say, a transmission meant for a 150hp car would be fine without at least additional cooling with double the power for hours on end? Same for diff. On the axles, I’d imagine that excessive lowering would indeed make it more likely to break things...

RE: The e30, that market was starting to get crazy just as I got enough $ to buy one some years ago, and I really wanted to turbocharge it, but kept wussing out. I guess I’m surprised they continue to go up. Great cars, but I couldn’t justify more than $2-3k for a stock one. I’d rather have a 240 turbo at $5k! And dang it, maybe I should just do that lol

2/18/2015 10:10:34 PM

Does a road-racing prepped or stock clean 240sx exist these days? They seem to be about as common as a 3rd-gen RX-7 still on its original 13b.

Also, what's with welding the diff in the 240? I think that's been done to about half of them. For that matter, why are they all drifty instead of racy?

2/18/2015 10:19:34 PM

i feel like you already asked about clean 240s in another thread..yes they exist

welding the diff is a cheap and easy way to get the car to step out predictably, not really easy to drift with an open diff (without a lot of power). Another option is a 1.5 or 2 way diff.
would be pretty easy to find an open diff to put back into a "drifty" 240..i have 1 on the floor of my garage

2/18/2015 11:54:10 PM

I mean, I understand what it does...what I mean is that Lincoln locking is seemingly the domain of drag cars and 240sxs. Everyone else goes with an LSD.

2/19/2015 12:13:01 AM

Most 240 owners drift – or at least intend to

Welding an open diff is cheap and easy. The stock S13/S14 gear ratio is shorter than the J30 and Q45 diffs, and the diff is very easy to weld without disassembly.

The factory VLSDs (S14, J30, Q45) suck for drifting. They're two decades old, kind of lock when cool, and turn into open diffs when they get hot. Not predictable and very frustrating. And shimming one just makes it feel more like a welded diff when cold. Might as well just weld an open diff. Plus if you swap in a J30/Q45 diff, you now have a taller ratio – not good for low-power drift cars.

Aftermarket units cost enough money brand new that most guys don't bother. It's a cheap drift car, so a $50 weld job at your local exhaust shop is generally going to be chosen over an $800+ 2-way center section.

In fact, many of the teams in Formula D (America's pro drift series) run welded diffs or spools to keep the feel consistent.


Full disclosure: I bought a secondhand Kaaz 2-way about 4 or 5 years ago for a great deal. Still locks hard and predictably.

[Edited on February 19, 2015 at 6:38 AM. Reason : .]

2/19/2015 6:34:28 AM

I don't see why the transmission is a big hang up. Your history with German cars may have clouded your views on parts breaking. The Japanese cars from the 90s were probably the best engineered cars of all time. I prefer the looks of the e30 but I don't have any doubt that a 240sx is a better option.


And this is coming from a diehard Nissan h8r.

2/19/2015 7:55:22 AM

Quote :

"The Japanese cars from the 90s were probably the best engineered cars of all time."

Amen

2/19/2015 8:56:48 AM

I still miss my mom's 92 infinity Q45 she traded in for a friggin 300c.

That car was the most well built but refined tank i've ever driven.

2/19/2015 10:09:54 AM

Yeah, I think the diff issue comes down to most 240 fans using a cheap solution that gets the job done. Still think there’s got to be a reason (other than car culture/fanboy-ism) to explain why I haven’t seen a SINGLE 240sx on a racetrack. I’ve run dozens of events with NASA, Chin Motorsports, BMW CCA/Porsche(POC and PCA)/Alfa/Ferrari/Mazda/R32/THSCC events (only Ferrari is limited to marque specific), and I’m sure I’m forgetting some.

As for 80s Japanese cars being the toughest things on the road, I get that they have that reputation, however my ownership of an always garaged and dealer serviced Prelude Si was a bit different. In my ownership the rear upper control arms slid off of their bushings, blew a master cylinder, exploded a pressure plate, and so on. I wasn’t the easiest on cars, but I have only had problems of that nature with one other car... a (then new) Honda Accord V6. It got 3 transmissions and a head job at below 45k miles.

Anyway, there are dozens of spec e30 cars with original engines north of 200k miles being club raced several times a month, you really think a 240 is tougher? I’m honestly asking...

[Edited on February 20, 2015 at 11:30 AM. Reason : And I’ve seen funky stuff from twin engined Integras to DeTomasos to Elans to S2000s and EVOs to...]

2/20/2015 11:27:51 AM

I'm really shocked there were no nissans at the alfa or ferrari events

2/20/2015 12:32:14 PM

your Porsche is nicer than a 240...(that's what you wanted to hear ) but much less suited for the purposes people use 240s for.

why don't I EVER see porches at drift events... they probably are cut out for the job..would require a lot of work to get it to perform like a 240 when sliding.
(seewhatididthere)

2/20/2015 12:44:18 PM

What year Accord was it? They lost the magic when the 2000MY generation came out.

2/20/2015 12:45:03 PM

Glad I could help!

2/20/2015 2:04:44 PM

^^^you seriously trying to put both activities on an even plain?

2/20/2015 4:28:56 PM

Quote :

"my ownership of an always garaged and dealer serviced Prelude Si was a bit different. In my ownership the rear upper control arms slid off of their bushings, blew a master cylinder, exploded a pressure plate, and so on. I wasn’t the easiest on cars, but I have only had problems of that nature with one other car... a (then new) Honda Accord V6. It got 3 transmissions and a head job at below 45k miles. "

You know what they say about sample sizes of 2...

2/20/2015 4:49:38 PM

Also why don't I see any pickup trucks at autocross events?

2/20/2015 4:49:54 PM

I wonder why I didn't see any Dodge Vipers in the America's Cup race...

2/20/2015 4:54:19 PM

I'm not going to argue opinions with you on a message board.

I said 90s not 80s for what that's worth. Sorry to hear about moms accord.

2/20/2015 5:35:15 PM

most guys who get into competitive racing are WASPs (whether autox, road racing, karting, legends, nascar, drag, etc)

WASPs do not buy Japanese cars

/the end

[Edited on February 20, 2015 at 5:51 PM. Reason : ]

2/20/2015 5:51:10 PM

YES! YES THIS IS TRUE! But WHY is that the case?!

2/20/2015 6:32:46 PM

The Accord was a 98 EX-V6, Prelude was an 88 Si. The Accord was the worst vehicle that has come across my family. I fully recognize my sample size is minuscule, and meaningless, but it’s had an effect on my thought process.

I fully intend to drift the Porsche a lot more at sanctioned drifting events (part of the reason I got another set of wheels and a trailer for it). It’s something I’ve immensely enjoyed anyway, but usually on race tracks, and typically in the rain. That said, I really only want to do that because I’m in love with the car, I think an e46 M3 with a set of coil overs (or an e36 for that matter) would be superior “drifting” cars.

Anyway, I totally can see how this would come across as me trying to justify some car as being “better” or “worthwhile” or whatever, I get that. And what can I say, maybe subconsciously that’s what I’m doing... But this isn’t the first time I’ve looked at 240s, and I’ve wondered why I don’t see them at track events before. I wanted somebody to challenge my thoughts/biases. I think that’s been done, I’d like one of these cars. I feel too German sports car centric. I got a MINI, it’s partly British and partly Brazilian. And FWD. Baby steps...

As for marque specific clubs, they typically allow instructors to drive whatever they want. In fact, I did an event with a 3.2l displacement limit and brought my Corvette to it

2/20/2015 8:16:05 PM

I feel like I am pretty Uniquely positioned to answer this topic (stab at 240sx's?). I am not really sure what your point

is. To be honest, you are flat wrong about every bold topic in your first post.


If you don't already know, I am probably the only person who bought a 240sx with the explicit intent on NOT drifting it. I

bought it to do HPDE with. I usually run with VIR club or CHIN, so if you were ever at one of those events you would have

seen a 240sx. Also, I run ChumpCar (with a e30, I have 4 of them), so I am very familiar with the differences in the two

chassis. There are many, many, many e30/e36 running chump, and they are usually the cars to beat. On the other hand,

there are 2 very strongly fielded S13's running in chump, and IIRC one finished top 5 in the December Chumpionship at VIR.

Here are my cars. 1992 240sx, 1991, 1990, 1989, 1985 E30



The 240sx is LS1 swapped (since 2009), and has been on track as a 4cyl and a 8cyl. Motor is Cammed and puts down 400/400.

Weight is 2600+driver. I have owned it since 2007.


SO, To address your topics:

Quote :

"Rear axles: I see 240SXs’ go through rear axles often. If you’re going to be driving on track for 30+mins at a time with 2X (or more) power than stock, this is a problem."

Not true in a RR application. Road racing is not hard on axles like drifting and drag racing, as unless you are screwing

off in the grass there isnt so much shock load on axles, which is what brakes them.

It is true that s13 axles are of the Tri-Y design and not the CV design.

My rear setup is a S15 HLSD with a Q45 ring/pinion in a J30 ABS housing. It uses S13 axles (6 bolt flanges), which are

distinct (L and R are different).

I have broken 1 axle in my ownership, but it was not due to power or axle failure (more on this later). Upon examination

of the axle after the failure, I did notice the inner cup did have some wear/play and was the source of some noise, but

this axle was on the car from before my ownership and it could be attributed to normal wear and tear.

If these axles are weak links, there are options. Driveshaftshop upgrades, Z32 upgrade, ect.

Quote :

"Engine cooling: Sticking a larger radiator into the engine bay and hoping for the best may not be adequate. Never mind that most modified 240’s are drift cars and don’t need an actual cooler so much as a heat sink, as drift runs are rarely much longer than a minute, two tops. If you have a larger, and thick enough radiator, you may want to consider what to do with the ductwork. On track airflow management is important. "

Not true here either. Never had issues with Stock motor/Stock radiator setup. I did maintain the factory cooling shroud

and mechanical fan, which many drift fanbois like to throw away.

With the LS1, I bought a Mishimoto aftermarket KA style Rad (cheapest one I could find), and junkyard grabbed some Mid 90's

Altima or Sentra double fans. Hooked up to the GM PCM to come on at 180 Low and 200 High. Never had any issues with

cooling with this setup.

If there was issues, I could go to a double, triple, ect pass radiator, a higher quality one, upgrade to better fans,

adjust the airflow with a under tray or hood vents.

Quote :

"Brakes: 300ZX TT brake upgrades seem to be common, however keep in mind an effective solution would not be just a caliper/rotor upgrade. There’s things like brake bias to consider, especially as the chassis is loaded, then we go into how sophisticated the ABS system may or may not be, not to mention brake cooling. As a side note, the 300ZX TT is an underbraked car. I recognize it’s a heavier chassis, but it was also limited to 300hp and had SOME cooling. The nose of a 240 with a giant intercooler and bigger than stock radiator is going to be fighting for space in this department. "

You are correct, the 300zx upgrade is quite common. It is not necessarily TT Z32's only - All z32 brakes were the same

after the first year. The first year the N/A cars had thinner rotors (26mm). 90-92 TT and 91-92 NA had 30mm with Aluminum

calipers. 92-96 all cars had 30mm Iron calipers.

Many Fanbois cheap out on the upgrade and do not switch the master cylinder. Do to this, the bias is wrong and the pedal

feel sucks. Z32 have larger master cylinders (1 inch or 17/16) with a different knee point than the stock S13 or S14

master (7/8). The bias adjuster is built in to the master on this era of Nissan, so changing the master changes the knee

point as well as the pedal feel. There is also the Pedal Ratio, which is different on the S and Z chassis. You can never

get it "perfect" as designed in the Z, but you can do a Master/Brake full swap and get a very effective and well sorted

brake setup. With the factory pedal box, you will always have either a slightly too soft or slightly too firm, but it is

still very good.

I had the Z32 swap for a few years, and I ditched it for a Wilwood setup. My Z setup was VERY good, and held up just fine

with the LS. What it was not was Affordable. The Pads for the Z32 shape were very expensive (200 and up...) and ate

rotors very quickly.

The wilwood pads are half the cost and last twice as long. I use 350z Brembo rotors, which are very cost effective ($45

brembo blanks) and are available at many autoparts stores if I happen to need one on a track weekend.

Unfortunately, my engineering skills were not up to snuff when I did the brake swap and I cocked it up. It has terrible

feel, terrible bias, and overall is dangerous. I removed the bias adjuster and added a external one and It helps, but the

pedal is still too sensitive - I flatspotted 4 sets of R comps quite rapidly. I am actually adding ABS to my car, and

getting the master cylinder vs pedal ratio situation sorted so the pedal actually has some movement before it drops the

anchor.

The front bumper has some nice slots which provide a perfect place for brake duct cooling. A company makes a bolt in

solution to convert the square bumper hole to a round brake duct tube. I do not have brake ducts hooked up, and I have not

ever run out of brake even with the LS, although admittedly with the unfortunate setup I have now I have not pushed them as

hard as on my E30.

Quote :

"Cooling continued: The 240 does not come with a spray lubricated transmission, let alone a transmission cooler. Rear diff is also not cooled, I don’t think there’s even cooling fins on it. If you intend to double the stock output, and drive it on track, may need a transmission cooler AND a differential cooler, not to mention different differential mounting all together. "

I am not a expert on the stock KA trans. I know it is the same guts with a different bellhousing as a SR trans. I have a

friend (Jawitak knows him, Jordan) who has a very fast KA turbo S14. His stock trans with 200k miles lasted a long time

and survived alot of abuse at the 250 HP level. It did grenade eventually after a new setup...

As has been stated though, there are plenty of options to adapt the KA or a SR to a stronger transmission. Or you could do

what I did... Nobody ever complains about a T56.

The diff though... Stock R200 Diff is plenty stout. It is the same diff that found home in everything nissan made in that

time frame. They did in fact come with finned covers on Z32's, and Greddy made a +2qt and Finned cover if really deemed

necessary.

Total number of diff's grenaded = 0.

Quote :

"Other: Let’s say we’ve taken care of the above, you also need to worry about things like wheel bearings. It’s one thing to auto-x a car, or drift it, another to corner at 1+G on a track at 130+ for half an hour or more and hope that the bearings are up to it. "

This point is the first one you have totally nailed. The wheel bearings on S chassis are TERRIBLE. It really is the

reason my car is basically parked while I run the E30's.

I have had good luck with the fronts, they are aftermarket 5-lug swap hubs with the bearings replaced. Over many years,

they have held up fine with 255/40/17 street tires and 245/40/17 R6's.

The rears are another story. The bearing is a bolt-in design with a press in hub. The hubs are a PITA to get out of a bad

bearing. The hubs are NLA, new or aftermarket. The bearings themselves are very hard to find, and when you do find them

they are $$$ - more than $100 each, even for cheap ones. ALso, they suck. I have killed many of them. Moving to R-comps

made it much worse.

I have even been as far as disassembling (carefully) a new bearing and re-packing it with expensive grease. Did not help.

The rear hub is also the reason I broke that 1 axle. The aftermarket replacement bearing/hub I bought actually

separated/sheared the hub at the face of the bearing, meaning the axle was the only thing holding the wheel, hub, brake,

ect in place. This decided to quit, luckily as I was accelerating from a stop on the street.

2/20/2015 10:06:08 PM

One final point - Suspension.

The geometry of this car is definitely square in the mediocre late 80's design. It is MILES ahead of a e30 and I would say

better than a E36. Can it compete with a miata - NO, absolutely not. It has a Mac/Strut front with a 5 link rear.

Much of the bad wrap these cars get is the drift- fanbois throwing half assed designed and half ass installed parts on

them.

The worst example is shocks - there are no, zero, nil off the shelf shock packages that are worth a shit. They are all

terrible. Tein, Ksport, Buddy CLub, KW, you name it, they suck.
Ohlins did make a bolt on coilover kit that was decent. It is NLA and very rare. ALso, Gold parts = Gold prices.

There are kits to adapt 3000GT Bilstein struts to work. Bilsteins are awesome, and this is a legitimate setup. It does

require some assembly.
Similarly, there are kits to adapt Koni 8610 or 8611's, which are both excellent shocks. Again though, some assembly

required so it is very seldom seen.

As stated before though, the rest of the suspension is very well sorted and supported by aftermarket. My car has custom

home-made rear links, very nice SPL front links, a custom adjustable FLCA made from a modified Godspeed arm. The spindles

are plenty strong and of decent design for a Road racing ride height, no need to change them. I have z32 aluminum spindles

in the rear with a custom full spherical bearing setup. I have zero "bushings" left on the car. Sphericals are the bees-

knees!


Here we are Under Oak-Tree in 2009 so you can say you have seen a S13 on track:


Here is a video of me (trying to) running with a Ariel Atom

http://youtu.be/f8tpoeNGtYc


With a old car like this, you get what you put into it. If you have the $ for Porsche's, I don't exactly know what you

would expect to find with a car like a s13. It will take effort to develop into something that is refined or reliable

enough to be useful. Its a totally different experience and ball park. Personally, Id love to be able to drop the $ and

just have a reliable track car. Unfortunately, I am not yet at a point in my life where that is an option. I have to put

in some effort and development to get the same level of reliability and speed.

On that note, I am a e30 guy at this point. They are fantastic cars, and Chump Car is the shit! you should give it a look

if you haven't, it is so much fun.

On the chump car front, the 240sx is not really a good starting point. The rules basically mean you are stuck with the KA

(its swap out value is so low you cannot afford anything worthwhile to put back in). The KA is a decent motor for street

use but its terrible at the track. It has bad oiling. It has a narrow power band. It has some nagging reliability issues.

Headgaskets, headgaskets, headgaskets. On the good side, it has quite adjustable suspension from the factory, and can be

adjusted further with some modification (slotting the subframes, camber plates, ect). It has a decently large fuel tank

(15 gallons iirc?) and can go a full stint on fuel.

On the other hand, the M20 in the E30 is fantastic! It has a great power band, it is incredibly reliable, and its cheap to

operate. On the down side, the semi-trailing arms have to be compensated for with driving, factory alignment adjustment is

non existent (literally the only thing that can be changed is front toe), and you have a target on your back because its a

E30.


Hope that helps change your opinion.

2/20/2015 10:06:43 PM

to answer the WHY about WASPs

Everyone buy things they can relate with. White people will gravitate to cars built in "white" countries, Asians will gravitate to Asian-built cars, and I daresay Romance-language people will prefer Romance-language car makers. Certain cultures just have the race bug, and their upper class will steer their car makers' towards that type of thing.

Which countries have the race bug? Which countries build cars based on sportiness and passion? Which countries spawn world-reknown race car drivers? The countries on the left leg of the triangle.

http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/5228f4fceab8ea80338b457b-1200-784/lewis2.jpg

Quote :

"It has a narrow power band."

It's broad and torquey... for a 155hp 4-cylinder engine

[Edited on February 20, 2015 at 10:33 PM. Reason : ]

2/20/2015 10:22:36 PM

damn this took off

2/21/2015 1:10:48 AM

Air: Thank you so much for posting that, it actually does explain quite a bit. I actually do instruct with Chin (I’ll be there next weekend, come on along if you’d like!), we must not have done an event together. BTW, I’d LOVE to check out your 240 and e30s and chat if you are around.

tchenku: I think this is a strong force actually... The “car culture” that is around road racing totally shuns Asian cars, even though American cars typically don’t get much love either. I’ve always been a fan of Corvettes (starting with the C5), and people are surprised if I start talking to somebody about one at a Porsche club event... But that didn’t stop me from being impressed with Integra Type-Rs for example. I remember somebody running fastest time of day at Road Atlanta with one around 2002-2003 in a time trial. I will not soon forget that! Fantastic car from Honda...

Bit of background on me... Even though I currently own (and feel very lucky to do so, and completely adore!) a GT3, I’ve owned and worked on dozens of cars from BMWs to Porsches, to Saabs/Volvos, VWs, etc. I typically do all the work on all of my cars, I’ve rebuilt engines, swapped transmissions and a myriad of other modifications from minor to quite major. I used to work as a mechanic then in track car prep, and finally as a service advisor. I created this thread in part BECAUSE I wanted to be challenged on 240s, but I did not intend to compare it to any other particular car that’s not in the same price bracket or performance envelope. It’s often difficult to get input from people who own a particular type of car, especially if they have not had much experience with other platforms. People tend to feel defensive about the choices they’ve made. I get that. I am aware of my own biases, which is why I really appreciate differing input and discussion of said perspectives.

Thank you all for the responses.

2/21/2015 1:27:41 AM

Sidenote to Air: My second car was a 944, which is the first car I started to do track events/auto-x with, and I had an e30 as a teenager. I love the feel of the trailing arm rear suspension, even though they’re total crap compared to a multi-link set up. And the Z3 M is one of THE most fun cars to drift and the 964 chassis 911 is probably my favorite for feel.

2/21/2015 1:34:28 AM

There is an extremely fast and very successful 240sx that runs LeMons right now, I've raced against it a few times. It is V8 swapped, I believe with a Chevy truck V8 of some sort. Last year it managed a 1:48 lap at Barber, which is haulin' ass for a crapcan car (I've managed a 1:54 in my Contour SVT). I'm not sure how they manage the wheel bearing issue or any of the other stuff mentioned, but it's a cool car.


I'd like to get my Contour to a Chump race one day, but there's a few things I'd have to fix on it first (adding a 2nd kill switch in the middle, removing rear window glass, adding a window net, adding a fire system instead of just a bottle, etc). I think it could hang with Chump lap times, although it'd get rocked on fuel economy (can only go about 1.5 hours on track typically). It's fast for a LeMons car but Chump cars tend to be equal to the fastest LeMons cars, so who knows. We should start another thread on CrapCan racing heh...and yes Ahmet should definitely get into a Crapcan race one of these days, it's a blast.

2/23/2015 9:02:05 AM

I watched the Daytona 500

not a single Nissan 240

so they also suck for circle tracks

2/24/2015 4:49:00 PM

Dale Jr and Jeff Gordon drive Chevy SS's aka Holden Commodores. My G8 would be a great NASCAR.

This thread is great keep it up.

Air LS Swap the world, next up LS3 in the e30

2/24/2015 6:15:12 PM

NASCAR doesn't use an LS3, 358 cu in is the perfect size for racing

2/24/2015 6:36:06 PM

LSx makes almost everything much mo' betta.

2/24/2015 9:23:44 PM

2/24/2015 9:50:33 PM

this thread

2/25/2015 8:49:10 AM

Z Brakes


Wilwoods


Custom Modified FLCA and spindle



Broken Hub Saga
Found in middle of the street


Bearing and spindle


Hub

2/25/2015 12:11:03 PM