I want to do a write up, I don’t know what to say. It’s crazy awesome, also terrible. Any questions?

1/21/2015 12:03:18 AM

When can you take me for a spin Ahmet

I mostly want to know your analysis between GT3 (assuming 996) and 996 Turbo.

[Edited on January 21, 2015 at 2:50 AM. Reason : .]

1/21/2015 2:49:54 AM

Congrats on the new car.

1/21/2015 8:41:51 AM

Congrats. Thread is useless without pics.



Does it look like this?

1/21/2015 9:47:14 AM

Thanks, I’m pretty excited, terrified, scared, etc. As for a ride, I’m happy to. I’m also happy to talk to most people about cars, set up, etc. I will say though, a modified 996 turbo is more impressive in straight line acceleration. Speaking of the comparison...

GT3 vs. Turbo;
They’re different as night and day. The GT3 has beefier suspension components, wheel bearings, wheel carriers, multi piece control arms (~6 degrees negative camber is attainable) etc. not to mention the stiffer chassis, less weight, lack of AWD and so forth. The turbo is a much better daily driver. It is also faster, and with simple modifications, the turbo is rather impressive in it’s acceleration. Dynamically, the turbo is only better at straight line acceleration -particularly in the mid range-. The GT3’s throttle response is very sharp, as is 8200+rpm redline with second gear taking you all the way up to 82mph(!).

I don’t want to make too much of a direct comparison because the cars were already meant for different segments (I was talking to another friend about GT3 vs. turbo and he said “my hammer doesn’t make a good screw driver either”), but my GT3 has been further trackified with 2x+ the factory spring rate/MOTONs, rose-jointed suspension, GUARD LSD, and quite a bit more. They’re not very comparable. Currently the GT3 is super hard to drive on the street as loading the suspension is a challenge and without that it really doesn’t have much grip. Loading the suspension is hard on clapped out Hoosiers, pretty much not possible during a commute. Not that one would want to... It’s quite a bit more predictable, dare I say forgiving under the right circumstances, but the grip is unpredictable compared to a “street” car. I just ordered a set of street tires for the factory wheels, may drive it a tad more at that point. I love that the car’s so focused, and the ride is surprisingly good, but I kind of also feel like I just bought an expensive toy. It’s not a car one can enjoy on straight roads much. One final note, many who’re not intimately familiar with these cars probably don’t know this, but the subframe is mounted further up in the chassis on a GT3 compared to the carrera and turbos, in effect lowering the body onto the suspension. This allows a lower center of gravity, without having to rely on the suspension to lower the car by the same amount (more favorable suspension geometry). Bump steer seems absent, but to be fair, if you hit a bump with the suspension is loaded, you barely get any deflection with 1200+lbs springs anyway.

PICS:

1/21/2015 2:57:53 PM

that's pretty rad!

1/21/2015 4:59:16 PM

Do Porsches burn oil like a lot of flat motors tend to?

1/22/2015 8:03:59 AM

Wow, thats LOW. Any idea on HP/TQ?

1/22/2015 8:53:12 AM

The car is indeed very low. I’ll have to get rid of the splitter if I’m to drive it on the street much... Or at least install the cup splitter which is not as big, and flexible.

HP/torque. This car is NOT about acceleration, and certainly not in the low end. To illustrate this point, I’d point out that this particular car may have had $30+k spent on handling modifications and absolutely none on power. That despite the engine having been pulled out to weld coolant fittings (problematic on these engines). Factory rating is 380hp and 285torque. It’s totally gutless below 4-4500rpm, especially if you’re used to torque. Supposedly it’s rated very low from the factory and other things help like de-coupling of alternator and A/C at high RPMs or high load. Alternator is also decoupled on deceleration so the engine doesn’t see flywheel effect keeping RPMs high. Response is crazy good! - I seem to recall coming across some factory design literature showing that Porsche jointly developed the decoupling alternator concept along with Bosch, it is now on regular 911s also. My particular car also has a single mass 993 RSR(?) flywheel as well.

Oil usage. I haven’t had it long enough to know. The friend I bought it from claims no discernible oil usage in about 500 miles of track driving, when it’d usually get an oil change. Engine computer shows a lot of time spent in upper RPMs (as one would expect from a track car), but it doesn’t regularly see enough street miles to give an idea of what it would be like on the street over say 5k miles. I believe Porsche specifies acceptable oil usage around 1.5 quarts every 5000 miles if I remember correctly. Despite that, I’ve had flat 6 engines use a fair amount of oil, and some that didn’t use any. I’ve also had a tuned WRX that didn’t use any oil between changes. I don’t think it’s accurate to say flat motors use oil, especially not nowadays with more modern designs.

1/22/2015 10:54:06 AM

Ballpark on how much a toy like that cost you?

1/22/2015 2:42:59 PM

There’s a pretty large variation in the market between $40k and 85k or so depending on condition and miles. Mine’s at higher miles though some (arguably?) desirable upgrades. Search autotrader or eBay for a better understanding.

Also, I fell in love (and awe) with these things when I first drove one 5 years ago and started looking into them and spending more time in/around them. The engineering that went into them and the sheer number of motorsports/track parts in the street legal version of the car is staggering, and was it’s main draw to me. It’s more than a toy, I admire and respect it.

1/22/2015 3:50:01 PM

Quite a nice car
You around raleigh, wanna take a poor kid like me for a spin?

1/23/2015 8:04:15 AM

I am happy to give anybody a ride who would appreciate this car as much as I do.

1/23/2015 1:16:19 PM

List:
Glassssssss
Foo1

1/24/2015 1:15:45 PM

PM your phone number.

1/24/2015 2:13:50 PM

List:
Glassssssss
Foo1
Hiro (I'll give you gas money for a good time )

1/24/2015 7:51:14 PM

Street tires mounted on factory wheels, here’s what the car looks like today:



Again, the car is pretty terrible on the street, but it is indeed a treat to drive. I took some liberties with it in the rain, and shot a bit of video. It is SO linear and predictable. That’s not to say it’s “easy” per say, but you couldn’t ask for a more communicative car/chassis. It’s heavenly. I’ll see if I can clean up the video and upload it. I’m in love. BTW, I think my price range may have been a bit off , don’t see any advertised below $60k at the moment, though I still don’t think any example other than museum pieces would pull above $80-85k.

RE: Rides, I’m so happy that there are other people that appreciate these things, and look forward to sharing that. I’m beside myself that I have a car I’ve admired and respected for so long! I will see if I can get together with you guys tomorrow afternoon but failing that, a rainy day is recommended.

1/25/2015 2:19:31 AM

I feel like your turbo was a better looking car.

1/25/2015 10:33:12 AM

Some day...I'd love to have a 997 GT3 or Turbo.

Maybe the day that my daughter graduates HS and I can stop paying child support to her mother ($825/month when she lives with me 50% is crazy)...Added bonus of it being a middle finger on wheels to her broke-ass mother.

1/25/2015 2:26:17 PM

Quote :

"$825/Month"

Wtf man.

1/25/2015 2:59:16 PM

no shit, and that figure was based on my income a few years ago and with the benefit of my daughter living equally with her mother and me.

if I had stayed in the USMC and had the numbers crunched on my last year's income, and if I didn't have 50/50 time-sharing, I think it would be something like $1500-1600/month or something stupid. It's such a fucking racket. It's baffling to me why I have to pay her anything at all when our daughter lives equally at each house.

i once offered to cover 100% of every expense for my daughter (daycare, health insurance, any extracurriculars she wants to do, incidentals when she's at my house, etc), other than just feeding her and clothing her when she's with her mother. Not that she would have ever agreed to that; I did it just to try to illustrate to her that she's getting the mother of all sweetheart financial deals (she was complaining about me not giving her MORE money to help pay for softball, when I already foot the whole bill for her taking horse riding lessons, which costs WAY more, haha).

[Edited on January 25, 2015 at 4:09 PM. Reason : A GT3 might be too understated. Prob gonna need a Ferrari for a little while just to make the point.]

1/25/2015 4:03:36 PM

thanks Ahmet for the very entertaining ride, that car is quite amazing
most fun i have had in the passenger seat in a while

1/25/2015 9:04:06 PM

haha nice.

I want to ride in it on track.

that and I want to buy one of its 997 brethren. Need to gain a promotion or two first now that I'm kinda starting over career-wise, though.

1/25/2015 9:28:50 PM

I’m glad you liked it and am happy to share that experience. I can’t wait for it to rain more

Duke, 997 GT3s are supposed to be great, but I don’t have sufficient seat time in them to have an opinion. I’ve seen several owners come back to the 996 because it’s a (much) more raw. The depreciation angle aside (the 997 GT3s are still depreciating, 996s seem to be going up), the driving experience has been second to none. I do plan to track it. Probably at VIR, and probably in the next few months. You’re more than welcome to come along for a ride.

As a side note, each replacement rotor in the front for this is going to cost more than entire (pieced together) brake upgrade on my Cooper S, which I am shopping around for as we speak. I was really looking forward to tracking the Mini! Good problem to have I suppose...

1/26/2015 5:34:44 PM

Parked on Edenton by the NC Bar building around noon?

1/28/2015 5:49:38 PM

I get a sense you are forcing yourself to like GT3 over 996TT? Parts wise is it costlier than 996TT?

1/28/2015 5:57:25 PM

I was parked there right around noon, good catch!

As for turbo vs. GT3. My GT3 is a terrible every day car, but the turbo wasn’t half as satisfying to drive, even if faster. Let me put it this way, I filled up for the third time yesterday (in less than a week) and I drive a different car to the lab. I’m averaging just under 12mpg. It’s a lot of fun!

If anything, I might rather have a more street friendly version of this car. Or, stockify this one a bit, but not before some track time!

1/28/2015 9:46:11 PM

^^ I highly doubt the parts cost more as they're built to hold up on track, not on street. There's next to no rubber on the car and the motor is bulletproof. Sure the brakes and tires cost more, but I'd bet cost of ownership is cheaper, with a simpler engine, less interior stuff, and much more durable wear items.

[Edited on January 29, 2015 at 8:59 AM. Reason : cost more relative to service life. im sure they cost more up front]

1/29/2015 8:58:50 AM

Sorry I didn’t see the comment about cost. Let me tell you what problems I’ve come across in 4 years of 911 Carrera and turbo ownership on my car and through the shop (not maintenance items);

Carrera:
Air oil separator -->different design on the GT3, no wear parts.
Spark plug tubes -->different design on the GT3.

Turbo:
Rear spoiler hydraulics --> fixed spoiler on the GT3.
Clutch Slave Cylinder + Clutch Slave Accumulator --> GT3 does not have power assisted clutch.
Front CV joints + diff seal --> GT3 obviously doesn’t have these as it’s RWD.

As smoothie points out, overall the GT3 is way tougher, though the brakes certainly are more expensive, they last quite a bit longer as well. I’ll try to dig up a comparison pic. The GT3 is simpler, lighter and a bit tougher than the turbo (or really any other car from Porsche for track work). Lots of titanium in the engine, extra coolers, much bigger brakes despite weighing less and making less power than the turbo.

1/29/2015 10:57:38 AM

Just did a quick parts search online after reading your brake cost comment. Exactly how much larger are the GT3's brake rotors, over that of the turbo? Looks like a front rotor pair costs roughly double that of the Turbo's. And the Turbo's rotors are more or less the same cost as those for my Cayman.

1/30/2015 8:50:21 AM

carbon ceramic rotors

1/30/2015 9:43:45 AM

No, they're not (though while they're an option I can tell from the photos they're not CC). And lol if they were CC's b/c CC's don't cost double Turbo/Cayman rotors...they cost 10 times.

1/30/2015 10:56:02 AM

Ceramics were an option on the GT3, the only different parts for the ceramic option are the rotors, and the calipers would be painted yellow instead of red. They are actually the same calipers, all other parts in the system were the same down to the brake pads...

Here’s a picture showing the GT3 calipers vs. the Turbo. GT3 calipers are in yellow (both far left and middle), turbo front calipers are to the right of the GT3 calipers.

for scale, here’s the smaller turbo brakes next to some bananas and apples. They’re not exactly small...


My cost on GT3 rotors is 3x turbo rotors, however Cayenne Turbo rotors do fit the GT3, and are quite a bit cheaper than even the turbo rotors (but they’re not drilled). However, my GT3 has aftermarket rotors on it, cost is roughly $400 each (not counting the rotor hats, which don’t need to be replaced as often). I haven’t yet decided which route I will go come replacement time. I’m signing up for 10.5 hours of track time this month, so, that decision may come soon. or depending on perspective!

1/30/2015 11:46:42 AM

so Ahmet came to the drift event this weekend and decided to get rowdy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9pCGFFRt9o&feature=youtu.be

2/3/2015 2:53:17 PM

Sell your GT3 and start saving your money, Ahmet.

Cayman GT4 is out, and it will have your GT3 for breakfast, lunch, and dinner

3.8 liter flat 6
385 hp
$85k

2/4/2015 3:44:05 AM

^^Thanks a lot for posting that video. It’s wonderful to be reminded of the fun, yet annoying to see how ill suited the car was to that environment + how much more practice I could use!

As for the GT4, I’m a fan of the rear engine chassis. Aside from that, the GT4 is very similar in power to weight, and much less raw + lots of electronics... I love this car because it’s NOT those things!

2/4/2015 11:05:49 AM

Lovely picture from the event...


Tire trailer is supposed to be here Friday, anybody know more drift events coming up? Got some old slicks I’d like to wear out

2/4/2015 9:50:00 PM

So how do these drift events work? You pay money and wait hours to get, what, 40 seconds to do donuts in a parking lot? Do they make you work cones too?

2/4/2015 10:51:23 PM

Wow, quite the optimist

10 bucks to get in the gates..then it's $5 extra to be allowed to ride along with people (need a helmet and someone to ride with) or $40 extra to drive a car. Event goes from 10-5 and its a line that goes non stop , when you finish your run you get back in line and go again. As many times as you want. The course is usually different every month. If you want to tandem and have the skill.. it is encouraged. Line moves quickerand it's more fun to watch. You will have more than enough time to run in a day...if your car and tires last.

(This is for events at Piedmont dragway...other events may be shitty)

[Edited on February 5, 2015 at 12:27 AM. Reason : N]

2/5/2015 12:25:52 AM

I can see where he’s coming from. I’d never driven a car at a sanctioned drift event (can you tell? lolz), it’s sort of like a mix between a skidpad and an auto-x, except it’s more laid back and you get more seat time (by far) than either.

It seems like most people only drift, only drag race, only auto-x, or only track etc. I think they’re all great fun in their own way. My experience and current car aren’t well suited to this particular layout/speed range, but it was well worth the time/cost anyway. Side note, I’m not sure if my rear suspension/brakes would clear a 17inch wheel, but I’d love to use a shorter wheel/cheaper tire and actually shift into 2nd for a tight drift course like this one! Final note on drifting, watch other videos from the event if you want to see what it really can be like, mine wasn’t very representative.

glaaasshole, upload the rest of the videos already!

Semi-on topic. If anybody's interested in track time in my passenger seat at VIR, got an event coming up. I will have rain and slick tires, fresh brakes, etc. Drop me a PM.

2/5/2015 1:14:28 AM

Quote :

"so Ahmet came to the drift event this weekend and decided to get rowdy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9pCGFFRt9o&feature=youtu.be"

Aw snap, looks like I left too soon!

Quote :

"So how do these drift events work? You pay money and wait hours to get, what, 40 seconds to do donuts in a parking lot? Do they make you work cones too?"

lolololol you're in for a surprise. Auto-x is fun and all, but auto-x blows compared to these open course drift events, IMO.

Quote :

"Tire trailer is supposed to be here Friday, anybody know more drift events coming up? Got some old slicks I’d like to wear out"

Next Piedmont event is Saturday Feb 28th.

2/5/2015 8:07:29 AM

You did leave too soon!

I’m going to be at VIR that weekend, scheduled for about 8 hours of track time , a (small) part of my heart will be wishing I was @piedmont.

2/5/2015 10:58:31 AM

Ahmet only have one other run of yours on the gopro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKWmtHT_U5E&feature=youtu.be

heres one of mine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r3X3VAP9z4

2/5/2015 8:21:57 PM

never done it before but I know drifting has the best seat time vs $$ value, ha

2/5/2015 9:19:02 PM

How much does it cost? Because when you break it down to the minute track days are actually pretty competitive.

2/6/2015 8:47:30 AM

its posted in this thread^

2/6/2015 8:48:55 AM

Sorry

Yeah that's pretty damn cheap, lol. Even when you include cost of the tires.

2/6/2015 11:21:19 AM

Thanks for posting the videos! I’m sad there isn’t any external footage of my car. Is there any of yours? Your buddy (what’s his name again) and a couple of really good runs!

As for the cost of track time vs. drifting... The Chin Motorsports event I’m doing at the end of the month has an entree fee of around $550 and you get around 6 hours of track time.

BUT... with track events you have the very real cost of brakes and tires, as well as lodging. I imagine the two tires suitable for drifting are significantly cheaper than a set of track tires btw.

2/7/2015 11:01:15 AM

yeah a weekend at the track might only cost $300-350 or whatever in entry fees, but it can easily be a $1000 weekend altogether. Hell, probably more than that in a car like a GT3 with pricy brakes.

2/8/2015 5:37:57 PM

yeah a weekend at the track might only cost $300-350 or whatever in entry fees, but it can easily be a $1000 weekend altogether. Hell, probably more than that in a car like a GT3 with pricy brakes.

2/8/2015 5:37:57 PM