power steering? Personally, I think it is stupid and completely unnecessary. Wouldn't this almost negate power generated from regenerative braking, assuming a car had both?

9/1/2013 2:28:44 PM

Where do you think power from hydraulically assisted steering comes from? Not the mpg fairy.

Plus, if you have stop/start, it's easier to work electric accessories.

9/1/2013 3:50:30 PM

I miss the direct feel of a manual rack

9/1/2013 7:26:50 PM

I see what you are saying with the stop/start. It may help in situations like that. Wouldn't it use more energy from gas powering the belts for hydraulics, plus drawing energy from the alternator for the electric part? Or would it be an almost negligible difference?
Also, I see it as one more thing to troubleshoot in the event of a failure.

9/1/2013 7:29:08 PM

Did I read you correctly when you stated an electronic assist in addition to a hydraulic assist?

What car has that? Electronic assist means there is a typical rack and pinion with an electric motor assist, at least with what little knowledge I have about cars with electronic assisted steering. There's no hydraulics involved.

I like the MPG increase as well as the fact theres one less fluid you have to check/change. You never have to worry about leaks with an electric vs a hydraulic powered rack and pinion.

I don't know much aobut PS pumps, but I don't believe they disengage while the engine is on. Therefore, there's a constant parasitic loss of power and gas mileage with a hydraulic setup where an electrical assist can/will only draw power when needed (ie: <20mph or when steering angle exceeds a set point).

9/1/2013 8:28:15 PM

electronic steering assist is fine.

electronic self-steering shit can gtfo.

9/1/2013 8:42:52 PM

Looks like I just derped all over myself.
I thought electrically assisted worked in tandem with hydraulic power steering. My only experience with electric power steering is a Toyota Camry rental I had recently. The steering felt "loose" in that there was some play in it. I would turn the wheel maybe an 8th turn and then it felt like power would come to it then.

9/1/2013 9:29:03 PM

Electric replaces hydraulic. I don't know of any tandem systems. I don't know why there would be one. It's redundant.


Electric steering provides pretty poor steering feedback, though I felt it was smoother than most hydraulic models.

9/1/2013 9:48:31 PM

haha, yeah your previous comment didn't even make sense to me.

also, who gives a shit about a Camry's steering feel? That's about as meaningful as the cornering ability of a Peterbilt.

9/2/2013 2:56:36 PM

BMW is the only application of electric steering that I think feels good, everything else I've driven was totally numb.

9/2/2013 3:46:12 PM

the only vehicles I've driven with electric power steering were boring little sideways-motor, front wheel drive, automatic transmission utilitarian cars, so I wasn't expecting impressive handling. To me, they drove similar to comparable cars with hydraulic power steering.

9/2/2013 10:59:03 PM

I've driven an IS350 with it and owned an IS250 with it for a while. It was okay. I wasn't very confident when I would do some spirited driving. Then again, the car is no BMW to begin with.
Otherwise, it got the job done. It was a nice smooth steering rack with the ability to u-turn unlike any other car it's size. It's turning diameter is around 33ft whereas most other cars in it's class are closer to 37 to 38 feet. That's one thing I REALLY enjoyed about that car.



[Edited on September 3, 2013 at 6:34 AM. Reason : .]

9/3/2013 6:30:47 AM

It seems like the only new cars of late that have successfully retained good steering feel when switching from hydraulic to EPS are the Porsche Cayman & Chevy Corvette. Every other car review I've read (that made the switch) has been said to feel inferior to the hydraulic set up.

The Honda S2000 had EPS from the beginning, and the one big complaint (for handling) that most people had for that car was numb steering feed back. The BRZ/FRS has EPS but it has a better system than the S2000, more feel.

If executed properly I don't have any complaints, mainly due to the advantages listed above.

9/3/2013 9:00:37 AM

When C/D tested electronic steering, they actually preferred it in the BMW over hydraulic:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/electric-vs-hydraulic-steering-a-comprehensive-comparison-test-feature

9/3/2013 11:18:34 AM

Good call, I forgot about that article. :thumbsup:

9/3/2013 12:24:36 PM

TRW has an electrically assisted power steering system. http://www.trw.com/steering_systems/steering/electrically_powered_hydraulic_steering





I imagine they have 12V and high voltage versions of it for mild hybrid etc. The 12V versions is probably just going to provide bit more force assist for driving comfort. It's a "bolt in" replacement and is not going to require as much re-engineering. You could probably use it for active safety features as well.

Think about it. If you have an engine that's intended for a global market across a lot of segments, where electric power steering doesn't make sense for 100% of vehicle applications, then just drop this thing in for higher-end applications.

9/4/2013 6:29:07 AM

I got a 2013 328i with xDrive as a loaner yesterday. It had EPS and start-stop. I stopped at a light and naturally the engine turned off, I wanted to take a quick left to pull in to a gas station, I tried turning the steering wheel but it was locked. Had to release the brake, let the engine turn on so I could make the turn. I guess this could have happened with a hydraulic steering as well. It was the only annoyance of the start stop system.

The EPS was not too bad, felt great in the parking lot. I got used to it pretty quick, but when I got my 335i back (it has a hydraulic steering system) it just felt so right. I can imagine not so strong women not being able to handle it though.

9/4/2013 11:47:22 AM

the adaptive steering BMW had available (varied ratio from 5 turns lock-lock to 1.7 turns lock-lock) was the best at being good at both parking lots and travelling at speed. my problem with the hydraulic steering (even active steering) on many late model BMW's is that the on-center feel is not very good which makes the cars want to drift a bit in the lane, it is very touchy and a poor or worn alignment amplifies the issue. on the eps cars it feels much more confident on center.

9/4/2013 12:15:04 PM

^^ Not strong enough to steer a 335i?

and there is no way it locks. at most, maybe you just lose power assist.

9/4/2013 8:13:55 PM

^ yea, I once let a girl drive my 335i and she her first complaint was the steering is so hard! I was like no it's not, its awesome. Also, on the 328i loaner I got once the engine stopped the steering felt like it was hard to turn. I didn't want to force it too much, so I just let the engine turn on first.

9/5/2013 10:13:24 AM

that stop-start shit on the BMW's is awful. Some manufacturers have figured out how to make it not so intrusive, but its a bitch on BMWs. (the new ones might be a little better, but when I test drove one a year ago it was terrible)

9/5/2013 11:31:44 AM