Ok, so here is my situation. Our family car is old as hell and having issues passing inspection that I don't really care to sink the money into on fixing (fubared horn may cost me $800 to fix). So I think I just want to trade it in. 97 Lesabre with 198k miles.

Price Range: 10-15k, preferably.

Need: Something decent on gas and has some room. We don't drive a lot (I bus or bike to work, kids bus to school and wife has no job currently) We currently use the car a lot running back and forth to visit family back east. Additionally we camp quite a bit with Scouts, so the ability to haul a bunch of stuff is pretty important to us.

So considering what we are looking at up there, I was looking at either a small wagon like a Jetta TDI, or something like a Grand Caravan or Town & Country. I know the TDI would be better on fuel, but the van would haul a shitload, especially since I was looking at vans that have stow & go seating capability, even with 2 kids. I have a small truck, so carrying wood and crap I can use the truck for that. But hauling all of our shit to go camping would probably be easier with a van, as it could store it all inside. With the wagon we would get those roof cargo carriers and use that plus the wagon area to stow our gear.

Questions: How hard is it to work on a TDI motor? I have never owned a VW and with all of my current cars, I have been the one that did as much work on it as possible. I do not have a shop over here to work on it, and what is the cost to repair stuff going to run me? This is a pretty big consideration for me really. As we live in an apartment now, I don't have access to most of my tools. Am I going to have to deal with shit constantly breaking on it, or are they pretty reliable inside and out? Should I go with something like a domestic minivan instead? The vans EPA rating is about the same as the Lesabre, but the car has lost fuel economy. I think I average like 16 now on a good day, even on the highway. Ugh.

So am I missing a great car that fits the bill? Another hatchback or crossover type car? Help me decide TDub Garage!

6/5/2013 9:52:49 AM

VWMSJ and diesel is expensive. Seriously, VW are terrible cars and are ridiculously expensive to maintain.

Chryslers are junk too, but at least they're disposable. The town and country has a massive amount of cargo capacity.

There are lots of good crossover hatchbacks out there now too.


[Edited on June 5, 2013 at 10:01 AM. Reason : .]

6/5/2013 9:58:10 AM

^Most of those seem to not have that much internal room though. That is what I do like about the VW Wagon. Looking at shit like a Vibe or whatever and they have less fucking room than my Buick does in the trunk. Plus from working at the rental car company a few years back, most of them rode like shit. The Buick at least has a pretty smooth ride.

6/5/2013 10:02:45 AM

a3 2.0T gets something like 34+MPG and can be had under 10k and is a wagon

6/5/2013 10:06:29 AM

^Audi=VW=Trash

I'm not sure any car on the planet has a smoother ride than those old floaty lesabres.

The TDI isn't a bad motor, but every bolt on it is one time use only. Every plastic part that breaks on the car itself will be another trip to the VW dealer, and many will break. If you aren't doing your own work, the VW will cost you a fortune.

A chrysler minivan with the seats folded flat is really impressive, no doubt.

[Edited on June 5, 2013 at 10:08 AM. Reason : .]

6/5/2013 10:06:55 AM

forrester?

6/5/2013 10:39:38 AM

i'm not a fan of anything VAG puts out, save the 911 variety and the supercars, but I don't know of any other wagon form factor getting over 30mpg, do you? I had a $500 ford windstar that I got 22.5mpg out of and had enough room for a motorcycle, but that doesn't sound like what he wants. that being said, given the fact that OP rarely drives, a fuel efficient car is probably not going to generate much cost savings over the total ownership.

6/5/2013 10:53:47 AM

^^^Yea I hate thinking of getting a van strictly on the uncoolness of it, but also on degraded fuel economy, which as you said is not a huge point, as this will not be a daily driver. But just on utility, the minivans can do so much. I could haul a shitload of stuff, with two kids who would have their own chairs. I even found one at like $10k with a damn entertainment system built in. We could put all that shit inside and still have bikes on the back, top, whatever. That is the big draw to a minivan.

The two things killing the Buick right now are a mystery misfire cylinder 6 code that it is throwing, which screws me with the damn emissions inspection in Orange County. I have swapped plugs, wires, coil pack, all with no effect. Battery is good and alternator seemed to be sending the proper voltage the whole time. I notice the power output fluctuating on the dash indicator when the engine is at idle. It goes a little low until I accelerate the engine. And the horn has got some wire shorted out, and with the airbag they said it would cost like $800 to fix. I had previously just pulled the fuse, but it won't pass like that.

6/5/2013 11:22:41 AM

Quote :

"forrester?"

Or maybe an Outback for a little more room.

[Edited on June 5, 2013 at 11:46 AM. Reason : l]

6/5/2013 11:46:27 AM

How about a Honda Element? It won't have TDI mileage, but at somewhere around 21-22mpg, would still be an improvement over the Lesabre.

You'll get the benefits of the van, while being slightly less uncool, and with the rubber floor liner and removable seats it should be great for camping trips or scout events. It even looks kinda good in the right color/trim package. Also, they've stopped making it so you should be able to get a great deal.

6/5/2013 11:57:04 AM

Any reason for ruling out SUVs??

I just got a 2003 4runner for under $10k. This past weekend we fit the following: 4 adults, two 70+ lb dogs, 4 beach chairs, big beach tent, large cooler, and several beach bags full of shit. Rather comfortably as well.

I would think with a couple kids and the need to go camping and road tripping...you might want something a little bigger.

6/5/2013 12:17:13 PM

^Honestly I was thinking that mainly on fuel economy and price. Also we had a 1998 Chevy Blazer and my wife drove it a bit and HATED it. The body roll was bad on that thing, I know. It has left her with a bad taste on SUVs.

To really get her to hate me though, Carmax just got an 06 Trailblazer 4WD with a towing package for like $11k. It would do everything, including haul my family camper trailer (maybe). But I know just because the name has Blazer in it she will hate it.

[Edited on June 5, 2013 at 1:05 PM. Reason : ]

6/5/2013 12:39:56 PM

how much does it weigh? the element is rated to tow 1500lbs

6/5/2013 12:47:24 PM

This does not have the weight on it, but that is the exact same model camper. Its a pretty big one, and has a single slide. It may be too much for a V6.

http://havasucity.olx.com/2007-26-fleetwood-mallard-iid-503938126

[Edited on June 5, 2013 at 1:19 PM. Reason : ]

6/5/2013 1:04:53 PM

It's the brakes and light, short frame, not the V6 I'd be concerned about unless it's one of those featherweight campers. Maybe trailblazers are stronger than I think, though.

6/5/2013 1:23:48 PM

Nah a friend of mine said the same thing. Trailer weighs 7000 lbs. Just found out.

6/5/2013 2:22:04 PM

Second the Element suggestion if trailer towing isn't high on your priority list. Tons of space, respectable fuel economy, wash-out interior, good ride height and available AWD.

If you go van, personally I'd take a slightly higher mileage or a couple years older Odyssey or Sienna over a Chrysler product.

What about a Volvo XC70? Or, if you can find one with low mileage, a W210 E-Class wagon? They're getting old now (replaced by the W211, which you do not want, in 2003) but pretty damn solid from what I've heard.

[Edited on June 5, 2013 at 2:30 PM. Reason : Or a Ford Taurus X? Not sexy but big for a wagon.]

6/5/2013 2:27:15 PM

Thoughts on something like this? XC90:

http://performance-auto-mall.ebizautos.com/plugin-detail.aspx?iid=10518014

6/5/2013 2:42:51 PM

the tdi changed a lot over the years, and each version had its own issues.

00-04 was the ALH with an injection pump. the injection pump usually needs to be rebuilt/replaced around 150-200k miles, and the pump alone (reman) will run you ~$1000. it is driven off of the timing belt, so it is a good idea to replace the belt/tensioners if you have to replace the IP

04.5-05 would have the PD (pumpe duse) which has injectors driven off of the camshaft. some of these had camshaft issues due to lobe wear. it is a pretty quick check, and the camshaft replacement is cheaper than the IP replacement on the ALH

the newer sportwagon with the clean diesel (2.0 common rail tdi) seems to be a pretty good design. we've seen diesel particulate filter concerns (although no failures yet) and the exhaust pressure sensors are becoming a common failure point (pretty cheap and easy to replace).

all TDIs have EGR problems, but there are ways to delete this.

the variable geometry turbos on the ALH and PD engines, have problems with the vanes sticking, requiring rebuild or replacement. we've seen a few of these, and it is not a cheap fix.

if you do end up picking up a TDI make sure you use the correct oil. the ALH uses 505.00 spec. the PD should have a 505.01 spec, and the common rail needs the 507.00.

tdiclub is a good place to do research, or shoot me an email at sales@apex-tuning.com if you have any specific questions. all we work on is VW/Audi and we see a LOT of tdis.

fuel economy has been declining over the years as more emissions equipment becomes standard
the ALH should get 45-50mpg
the PD (BEW) should get you mid 40s
the common rail seems to be around 40-43mpg

[Edited on June 5, 2013 at 2:49 PM. Reason : mpg]

6/5/2013 2:47:18 PM

Ford Flex?

I'm not really sure what the prices on these run but they seem interesting and relevant to this discussion. Especially if you get the ECO-boost



Edit:

Meh looks like you'd have to snag one about 4 yrs old and 70,000+ miles to get to around 15k.

[Edited on June 5, 2013 at 3:27 PM. Reason : They must be more popular than I think]

6/5/2013 3:22:47 PM

Decided against XC90 simply because it requires premium. I spend enough on gas already without limiting myself to the top shelf stuff.

What about the Mazda5? Towing obviously out the door on this, but looks like it can carry 6 and has a good cargo capacity. Plus 08 and up get a 5 speed auto for better fuel economy. What is maintenance like on one of these?

[Edited on June 5, 2013 at 3:33 PM. Reason : ]

6/5/2013 3:31:16 PM

Wife LOVES the idea of the Mazda5. Anybody had experience with them?

6/5/2013 3:53:08 PM

Going to test drive one at Johnson Subaru.

6/5/2013 5:36:23 PM

I personally love the vulva V70. I wanna find an R. The bad? The Aisin AW55-50 automatics aren't known for being bulletproof unless well taken care of. And who the fuck takes care of an automatic transmission?

6/5/2013 5:46:05 PM

get a sienna

you'll love it

6/5/2013 7:49:37 PM

We tested out the one at Johnson Subaru. The car seemed to drive quite well. I think we were both impressed. Seemed to have most of the things we were interested in covered.

6/5/2013 9:21:37 PM

I am going to go check out an 08 Mazda5 at Crossroads in Wake Forest this afternoon. Anybody got an opinion on that dealership? Also, how much do they stick to the price listed on the website. I have never bought a car at a dealership before, so I don't know what sort of haggle room I have. The car is listed for $10,900 but I would like to get it under $10k if possible. Thoughts?

6/6/2013 12:57:30 PM

A friend of mine has a Jetta sport wagon TDI. It's awesome and I want my fiancée to get one.

6/10/2013 9:56:14 PM

We ended up getting an 08 Mazda 5.

6/11/2013 7:57:14 PM