Thinking about buying a dickin'-around 4x4 in the next few months. I'm sure I'll use it for some offroading, maybe down the road get into rock crawling, but mostly just want something fun for shits and giggles. Basically, time for another hobby to make sure I don't end up actually making real progress on anything I'm already doing.

I'm looking for a good platform to build on gradually whether or not it's already been modded for sport. What models/years should I be looking for, and what should I stay away from? Anything I should "jump on" if I see it for sale? What sort of crap should I avoid in peoples' builds on CL (besides copious rust)? I'm not afraid of work but I'd like something I can depend on for daily driving if I so choose.

I'll be doing my homework online but I'd appreciate any info or advice you care to throw my way. I don't know muchatall about Jeeps. If I should be looking at something other than Jeeps too I'm keeping my options open.


[Edited on April 16, 2013 at 11:15 PM. Reason : thanks in advance]

4/16/2013 11:07:22 PM

Looks like I'm in good company message_topic.aspx?topic=624845

4/16/2013 11:09:31 PM

Get something with efi

Other than that.... You can do whatever you want pretty much any of them. Longer wheel base versions hill climb better and rubicons have stronger axles, lockers and better gears and xfer case so if you find one you can afford get that... Other than that I'd personally get a scrambler put a Sahara interior in it, a small block, a built tyranny atleast Dana 44 axles with whatever locker seems best probably arb.

Truthfully they all have pluses and minuses just don't get a 4 banger unless you plan on an engine swap and get efi unless you plan on adding it.

4/16/2013 11:29:20 PM

Thanks for the info. Why efi, especially if I'm doing a motor swap? Or do you mean stick with efi if I'm keeping a Jeep motor in it? And on that note, what are some of the most desirable general-purpose Jeep motor configurations? That AMC 304 sounds sexy as fuck on youtube.

Thoughts on this, for example? Looks like a good simple build, but why go with an auto trans? I'm seeing a lot of that in sport builds

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/3748169128.html

Quote :

" chevy small block 305 ( with 3000 miles on rebuilt and modified, I believe it had new performance cam shafts and lifters with holly carburator, There is more that was done but I can not remember all) Full roll cage 38.5 inch ground hawg tires with tons of tread left One ton axle with limited slip locker in rear Dana 60 with Dana 70 outers with spool on front MSD ignition system Painless wiring Automatic transmission with low and high gears( fast for mud and slow for climbing)"

[Edited on April 16, 2013 at 11:48 PM. Reason : asdf]

[Edited on April 17, 2013 at 12:04 AM. Reason : asdf]

4/16/2013 11:35:30 PM

holy shit http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/3672239289.html

4/16/2013 11:52:56 PM

lol wheels are funny but i kinda like them..


1. if you're gonna drive it a bunch it will just run better in all seasons without so much tweaking the carb.

2. if you do rock crawl... carbs like to stay flat and at certain angles some times they starve for fuel some times they flood the engine...

4/17/2013 6:06:36 AM

http://www.nc4x4.com

join, read, learn!

4/17/2013 10:01:36 AM

Used TJ with the 4.0 is the ticket IMO. The coil springs give it a nice highway ride and it'll outperform a YJ or CJ offroad in stock form. Aftermarket suspensions can close the gap on offroad performance, but all other things being the same the TJ will still be more fun to drive. Bonus if you can find one with the factory D44 rear axle or a D44/Ford 8.8 swap already done.

CJ would be cool if you want the most mechanically simple choice. YJs were cool when they could be had for $3500 and TJs were $10k+, but I don't see the point in starting with one now that TJs routinely appear in the $5k-$7k range and (decent) YJs rarely go for less than $4k.

[Edited on April 17, 2013 at 11:02 AM. Reason : l]

4/17/2013 11:02:09 AM

the tj d 44 isn't really that great... the axle shaft is larger but the axle tube is pretty weak from what i understand. The main benefit is not having a c clip axle... but it's not 8.8. or 1/2 ton d44 strong by any-means.

get at least lower control arms cause the stock ones can easily be damaged 4 wheeling.


[Edited on April 17, 2013 at 12:00 PM. Reason : .]

4/17/2013 11:59:42 AM

TJ all the way. Was big into Jeeps last year, built a CJ from the ground up and it was a nightmare to drive, and be safe in.

The TJ however, MUCH better. Comfortable, A/C, good MPG, Fun, etc. I drove mine to Myrtle and got 18mpg (4" lift and 33's), while my CJ I would barely drive up the road.

4/17/2013 1:06:17 PM

Yeah...AC is nice even on a Jeep. It's all good until you get caught driving in the rain on a 90 degree day. The windows will fog an ungodly amount and you're basically sitting in a extremely humid soft topped sauna if you don't have AC.

All the CJs I've driven steered about as well going down the highway as my grandpa's 1943 John Deere. I'm sure they could be tightened up with a lot of new parts, but ain't nobody got time for that!

[Edited on April 17, 2013 at 2:17 PM. Reason : l]

4/17/2013 2:12:08 PM

a few adders:
- talk to Jeepman about his ride. I love that thing.
- xj's are a plenty, however the unibody gets some bad rap.


Search term - "D35" - stay away.

4/17/2013 2:54:38 PM

My built XJ never once let me down. Fucking thing was bulletproof and was sunk up to the dashboard more than once in shitty mud puddles at Uwharrie. Climbed any obstacle out there as well.

Drove it 2 hours each way to Uwharrie everytime. She wasnt a trailer queen by any stretch of the imagination.

No issues with chassis flex either...I ran it with the doors off. Yes, I know

Doors always went back on in 5 minutes, and they were straight.

Only real mods were a 8.8 rear axle, geared to 4.88, lincoln (welded) rear "locker". Aussie locker on the front D30 axle. I always carried spare D30 shafts and parts, but never had an issue with it.

Also had a Tom Woods SYE and drive shaft, Rough Country 6" lift kit, and 35" tires. Cheap black steel wheels.

I did every single bit of work myself, and bought it for $200 bone stock. Had about $3500 into it when I sold it. It was worth every penny I spent on it and was a fucking blast to bomb around with on the trails.

Would I have "preferred" a different kind of jeep? Yes. But if money's tight, you cant go wrong with an XJ project.

[Edited on April 17, 2013 at 4:55 PM. Reason : .]

4/17/2013 4:53:13 PM

think, mcfly, think!

4/17/2013 4:54:30 PM

for those who wonder why lincoln locker = welded spiders... don't think car company.... think

4/18/2013 7:12:44 AM

Quote :

"But if money's tight, you cant go wrong with an XJ project. "

It will be cheap, he said....




[/shameless plug]

adam8778 said that he'd give away this fine machine to the garager who guesses how much $$ has been invested in it!

[Edited on April 18, 2013 at 7:50 AM. Reason : -]

4/18/2013 7:49:40 AM

are you including labor or just parts?

4/18/2013 9:06:44 AM

I've always wanted a

or maybe a J10

but what do people on here think of the 360 V8? especially as far as reliability goes?

[Edited on April 18, 2013 at 9:21 AM. Reason : just realized that pic has been modified to shorten the wheelbase lol - pixels]

4/18/2013 9:20:51 AM

Quote :

"if you do rock crawl... carbs like to stay flat and at certain angles some times they starve for fuel some times they flood the engine..."

can't believe I even asked, haha

Quote :

"http://www.nc4x4.com"

done and done!

Quote :

"Used TJ with the 4.0 is the ticket IMO."

Quote :

"TJ all the way. Was big into Jeeps last year, built a CJ from the ground up and it was a nightmare to drive, and be safe in. "

et. al...

CL seems to have a lack of TJs with the 4.0, most I've seen are the 2.4, but I'll keep looking.

I've still got a hardon for that AMC 304 though...do the CJs really all drive that badly? Even though I mentioned daily driving, I really just meant that I don't want a trailer queen, something that I could take out and run errands in on nice days if I feel like it. I have other impractical DD vehicles

I really would prefer the simplicity of a build like the one I posted above...all the extra late-model accoutrements seem like that much more shit to get in the way and/or break. A/C isn't that big a deal to me. That said, I'm still all-ears on the TJ...

Quote :

"a few adders: - talk to Jeepman about his ride. I love that thing. - xj's are a plenty, however the unibody gets some bad rap. Search term - "D35" - stay away."

- I intend to bother him next time I head back to LKN
- I'll keep that in mind
- Noted!

Quote :

"My built XJ never once let me down. Fucking thing was bulletproof and was sunk up to the dashboard more than once in shitty mud puddles at Uwharrie. Climbed any obstacle out there as well."

So what happened to it?

^^^ $18k in parts

[Edited on April 18, 2013 at 9:36 AM. Reason : ^ haha]

4/18/2013 9:35:25 AM

Based on my reading, this is what I'm presently looking for in general, barring exceptional projects of any model/year


'00-'04 TJ or '05-'06 TJ Unlimited Rubicon w/ 4.0 and stock drivetrain (for now)
CJ-7 w/ 304 V8, preferably already with some basic drivetrain and suspension upgrades
Late-model JK

[Edited on April 18, 2013 at 9:45 AM. Reason : sound good?]

4/18/2013 9:45:43 AM

Quote :

"but what do people on here think of the 360 V8? especially as far as reliability goes?"

My dad had a Grand Wagoneer that I drove a lot when I first started driving. No reliability problems up until he sold it at 130k or so. I could never get more than around 11 MPG out of it and frequently saw single digits though. The truck was pretty pristine, so I don't think it was a mechanical fault. I loved driving it, but it would cost an assload to drive with $3-$4/gallon gas.

(out of curiosity I looked it up on fueleconomy.gov and they report 10 MPG City, 12MPG Highway.)

Quote :

"do the CJs really all drive that badly? Even though I mentioned daily driving, I really just meant that I don't want a trailer queen, something that I could take out and run errands in on nice days if I feel like it. I have other impractical DD vehicles"

Go test drive some. I may not have had my hands on the right ones, but all the ones I've driven felt very sketchy at 50+ MPH. Old cars in similar shape seem to drive better because they usually have longer wheelbases, lower center of gravity, and they don't have 35" tires yanking on the steering wheel. Like I said, maybe I just haven't driven the right ones, but all the ones I've driven would be a brute to drive on a longer trip (such as to the beach).


This is all opinion at this point. I just think you get a lot more vehicle out of spending $7500 on something like this than you do out of spending $7500 on a decent looking CJ:
http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/3687471705.html



[Edited on April 18, 2013 at 10:00 AM. Reason : l]

4/18/2013 9:47:50 AM

That's a solid find. Unfortunately I refuse to purchase anything until July, personal imposition.. I have a problem with being impulsive on expensive things. I'll beat myself up over spending $20 more than I meant to at the grocery store but go out and buy an $1100 rifle because I had a couple hours to kill. Gotta quit doing that shit.


One of my bandmates has a mid-80s grand wagoneer that we used to use as a band vehicle when we'd play out of town. That thing was fucking terrifying on the interstate, and unfortunately broke down on us twice (oddly enough going to the same venue. they won't book us anymore )




par for the course

[Edited on April 18, 2013 at 10:32 AM. Reason : Fun, though.]

4/18/2013 10:20:54 AM

No need to rush it. There will be plenty of Wranglers for sale in July when a lot of folks realize it gets really hot in NC.

4/18/2013 11:44:21 AM

GET YOU A LIBERTY BRAH

i wanted one of these when i was like 10

4/18/2013 12:21:28 PM

hahahah this thread took off!

I think, after all of the WTFuckups he was ~$8-9k into it. Foo1, better hook up that trailer


(can't wait till adam txt's me with a big WTF, mate)

4/18/2013 12:28:01 PM

i didn't give a number but i would have nailed it... lol.

4/18/2013 2:05:17 PM

^haha i completely missed that.

4/18/2013 2:51:37 PM

but i'll be by to pick up my xj this weekend

4/18/2013 3:01:15 PM

...he won't miss it.

4/18/2013 3:36:21 PM

you getting a jeep, brah?

4/18/2013 4:49:25 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-Bronco-427-5-Speed-/251261657226?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3a805ca08a#ht_500wt_1182

4/18/2013 5:09:17 PM

Get a beater XJ with the 8.25 in the rear and weld it, sawzall the fenders, maybe a budget boost and 31's and beat it like a red headed step child BigBlueRam style!

4/18/2013 8:44:13 PM

the 8.25 especially in the 29 spline version really is a decent axle.

i miss my cherokee too...

i mean if i really didn't give a shit i'd get a 2 door inline 6 cherokee... and do exactly what colter said (more room to hack fenders on a 2 door )

4/18/2013 9:15:55 PM

I agree with everyone who said don't get a YJ (and I own a YJ). I'll probably keep it for sentimental reasons but if I had to get one now I'd probably go TJ. There are way more options for mods, the ride is better, more capable stock, etc.

Also, if you go non-Jeep stay away from Scouts (parts are damn hard to find).

4/18/2013 9:57:16 PM

^ that is totally false. They are no easier or harder to find that jeep parts of the same vintage. Know why? cause they use the same drive train, its all dana parts, chevy brakes. You can pick up a builder block all day long, the engine is still in production and can get new internals. Electrical system is delco, so all those parts are available.

The amc 360 is a pile of crap, usually attached to an undersized radiator. In a high reving car application it is serviceable, at low revs to get a ton of metal moving its not ideal. Generally they overheated, had oil starvation issues, and burned exhaust manifolds/gaskets.

4/19/2013 7:02:59 AM

IMHO scouts are heavier, uglier, and have a weaker drive train than early broncos if one wants a brick get a bronco.

If you are looking for cheap the big broncos are kinda awesome and have pretty stout shit stock.

And I like yj/cj interiors 100 times better.

The problem with them are the leaf springs due to wheel hop and everything but people used to make some pretty sick coilover conversions that would probably end up in the same ball park price range as a lifted tj.( total ) and you don't have the shitty interiors of the late model xj/tj that kinda has a neon feel too it.

And to be honest a spring over axle conversion is cheap and performs as well as most tj lifts and keeps a better break over angle than a long arm suspension.

I still think the tj is a better platform I just hate the interior and that their exhaust manifolds are prone to cracking if you do a water crossing (seen it happen about a hand full of times.) the axle hop on my soa yj sucked but you could work around it and to be honest any aired down 35 on 15" rim will probably hop some.

4/19/2013 7:22:06 AM

I am still kicking myself for selling my TJ to buy a truck. I will be correcting that mistake soon, I hope.

4/19/2013 12:27:42 PM

Thanks for all the info everyone...good stuff.

I'm pretty torn, because without having actually driven either I can't decide which school I want to pursue. I'm more attracted to the looks/"feel"/simplicity of the CJs, but I can't deny the advancements made in the TJs, and better "usability" for on AND off-road purposes.

I'll probably look for a reasonably built CJ7 first just to get it out of my system, and go from there.

I suppose the good thing with these is that if you're careful with what you buy and do to it you can preserve your resale value and switch it up if you change your mind without eating it too badly. I suppose I need to find some examples of each and take some test drives. If any of y'all in the Raleigh area have something you'd be willing to let me put a couple miles on, I could trade you a sixpack or give you the keys to my Cummins or bike or whatever floats your boat.

4/19/2013 2:51:09 PM

Quote :

"I suppose the good thing with these is that if you're careful with what you buy and do to it you can preserve your resale value and switch it up if you change your mind without eating it too badly."

I would not count on that, fwiw. People get lucky, but id still rather not bet on it.

4/19/2013 3:04:42 PM

If you end up with a cj or yj don't put on those god awful extended shackles

4/19/2013 3:57:10 PM

1-1.5" extension with quality shackles is good..

trying to get that much lift via the shackles...is bad (twice as long)

4/19/2013 4:34:33 PM

and just looks lam and jus and just looks stupid

4/19/2013 4:54:00 PM

And people will make fun of you when they can see your 4" shackles flexing side to side as you go around corners.

4/19/2013 5:06:38 PM

acceptable and actually help flex/ drive shaft angles.



not

[Edited on April 19, 2013 at 5:22 PM. Reason : .]

4/19/2013 5:21:09 PM

Quote :

"and just looks lam and jus and just looks stupid"

Holy shit at phone typo's.

^Exactly. But this pic better illustrates how stupid huge shackles can look.

http://www.jeepz.com/forum/attachments/cj-yj-tj-jk/8d1105555996-yj-shackle-lift-problems-4.jpg

4/19/2013 6:08:06 PM

They wouldn't sell it in JC Whitney if it wasn't good.

4/19/2013 6:24:57 PM

hahaha wtf, why would anyone think that's a good idea

4/19/2013 6:38:27 PM

just trying to learn you the do's and dont's of Jeeps

4/19/2013 7:15:20 PM

most excellent discourse my good sir



honestly though, within the context of cheap lift for the sake of lift, this just looks terrifying

Quote :

""

[Edited on April 19, 2013 at 7:37 PM. Reason : and those are beefier than a lot of the shit i'm seeing with a google image search]

4/19/2013 7:27:52 PM

Those could be homemade....

A friend had an 87 yj in highschool on 2" lift shackles. They were always the first thing to hit any obstacles that he tried to go over/through.

4/19/2013 10:36:49 PM