http://www.wral.com/bill-would-confiscate-cars-from-uninsured-motorists/12319969/

Having several friends hit by uninsured drivers, I hope this passes.

<chitchat>
Anyone got contact info for Melissa Pinter per the interview? I want to call her and ask what shes gonna do when she gets it by someone uninsured driver.
</chitchat>

4/9/2013 8:16:10 PM

http://ncleg.net/Sessions/2013/Bills/House/HTML/H602v1.html

my only problem with it is that you have to pay for towing, processing and storage (unsure if this amount is limited by same regulations for towing companies) even if you are acquitted or charges are dismissed. if you are acquitted or charges are dismissed they should release the car to you without penalty.

i do like the exemptions to prevent the sheriff from selling (immediate family member, first offense, under 19) and that a non-defendant owner can get their car back by submitting a petition to the clerk of court.

[Edited on April 9, 2013 at 8:27 PM. Reason : .]

4/9/2013 8:26:48 PM

isn't driving w/o insurance one of those fix-it tickets where if you show up in court w/ proof of insurance they'll drop the charges? if you don't charge the owner for towing/storage, who pays for it?

4/9/2013 8:38:24 PM

i don't think so

4/9/2013 8:47:42 PM

I hope this passes too. I wish they'd also run a bill that would allow them to seize a vehicle if the person driving didn't have a driver's license.

4/9/2013 9:02:13 PM

Nrr I think so but they still could Impound it

4/9/2013 9:06:44 PM

and they should

seems ridiculous to let someone drive away without insurance. those worthless fucks drive insurance rates up for the rest of us.

4/9/2013 9:14:05 PM

Quote :

"I wish they'd also run a bill that would allow them to seize a vehicle if the person driving didn't have a driver's license. "

With an exception if the vehicle was stolen...

4/9/2013 9:22:23 PM

but can't they tell if your insurance is valid when they run it, isn't it reported to the DMV if it lapses? i dont think this is about not having your card, its about not having insurance.

4/9/2013 9:23:27 PM

Sounds like a law that allows the state to heavily penalize the working man for owning things that are marginally nice while still offering negligible penalties to those who barely contribute to society.

oh damn...they took my $900 car; where will I raise the money to buy another?
vs
oh damn...they took the car I worked my ass off for 4 years to pay off and was counting on to get me to work for the next 4 years while I saved for a house.

Huge difference.
#fuckthemiddleclassright?

(There are already penalties for insurance lapses. Real outlaws don't give a fuck about them.)

[Edited on April 9, 2013 at 9:36 PM. Reason : l]

4/9/2013 9:34:54 PM

liability insurance for a $900 car is really really cheap, there really isn't an excuse

or are you saying the guy who saved for 4 years is the one who is getting screwed? its hard to tell because neither of them have an excuse for not being insured.

[Edited on April 9, 2013 at 9:48 PM. Reason : .]

4/9/2013 9:47:24 PM

This doesn't really bother me either. I do hate that people drive all the damn time with no insurance. If you can't afford the next to nothing cost for liability insurance only on a car, then you need to get a bike, get on a bus, or catch a ride. My cars are old shit boxes for the most part and I still keep liability and comprehensive coverage on them.

4/9/2013 9:53:54 PM

That's why I buy insurance to cover me from the uninsured.

4/9/2013 10:05:21 PM

Quote :

"isn't driving w/o insurance one of those fix-it tickets where if you show up in court w/ proof of insurance they'll drop the charges? if you don't charge the owner for towing/storage, who pays for it?"

I don't know who should pay for it, but it shouldn't the person that did nothing wrong and violated no laws. Take it out of state pensions or something for all I care.

4/9/2013 10:17:23 PM

folks shouldn't be buying cars that take them 4 years to pay off

[Edited on April 9, 2013 at 10:18 PM. Reason : but that's another thread]

4/9/2013 10:17:53 PM

this is clearly an assault on our undocumented citizen population's rights [/supplanter]

4/9/2013 10:27:47 PM

This sounds like a nasty scheme to force voters with no identification into purchasing a drivers license so that they can then buy insurance and only vote once. Those dirty communist republican legislators in North Carolina. I hope they rot in the hell.

4/9/2013 10:59:13 PM

Quote :

"liability insurance for a $900 car is really really cheap, there really isn't an excuse or are you saying the guy who saved for 4 years is the one who is getting screwed? its hard to tell because neither of them have an excuse for not being insured. "

I'm not excusing the crime, but something is wrong when two people with the exact same criminal history can commit the exact same crime and one is penalized $900 while the other is penalized $19,900. (I'm saying the guy who saved or made payments for 4 years is getting screwed here.)

Oh, you worked hard and bought something nice? We'll take that and sell it for whatever we can get at auction to line our own pockets.

It's not like the money is going to go to help people who were hit by folks with no insurance. The state will just be lining their own pockets with this bill. Don't worry, I'm sure they'll give incentive to the local PD by giving them a small kickback for taking your shit.

This is nothing like drug seizures where they can (supposedly) prove that the property was bought with money obtained through criminal activity.

[Edited on April 9, 2013 at 11:08 PM. Reason : p]

4/9/2013 11:00:29 PM

I would be for this, except when I got a new vehicle, there was some miscommunication between my insurance company and the DMV, where the DMV had no record of my insurance. Had it not been a "fix-it ticket" and they impounded my car, i would have been FURIOUS, and either the insurance company, the state, or both would have been paying me for lost work and vehicle rentals and hardship for me to get things taken care of.

4/9/2013 11:05:49 PM

Quote :

"either the insurance company, the state, or both would have been paying me for lost work and vehicle rentals and hardship for me to get things taken care of"

ahahahaha

no they wouldn't

4/9/2013 11:55:03 PM

4/9/2013 11:57:59 PM

minimum coverage for insurance is insanely low.

Minor fender bender resulted in $75k worth of medical bills and therapy with my wife 2 years ago. Dude only had a $50k/person policy, so it was fortunate that I opted for under-insured/uninsured coverage with my policy as I didn't have to pay the difference.

Minimum should be $100k medical per person. If you can't afford the insurance policy to cover your ass (financially), take a bus or taxi.


[Edited on April 10, 2013 at 12:34 AM. Reason : .]

4/10/2013 12:33:17 AM

THIS IS FUCKING STUPID

All they have to do is put a $25 bounty on license plates with insurance lapses, and license private citizens/tow companies to go find the plates and turn them in to the DMV. People would have a much harder time driving around illegally with no plates on their car. It would be easy work for any brainless twit private citizen with a car, and would not require a more government employees to handle all the court cases, impound paperwork, car storage, etc.


Also, you whiny ass pussies could never survive in New Hampshire!

The republicans are all about limited government intervention and personal responsibility. Why are they proposing this bill? If you are driving on the road you should be responsible enough to insure yourself against uninsured motorists...otherwise you run the risk of getting hit by one. In some states liability insurance is not even required so you can still get hit by a driver from there. What? There is no checkpoint at the borders of North Carolina to keep them out.??? FUCK!!! Lets pass a law to keep out of state drivers out of NC!

The NC GOP is all about this nanny state bullshit whenever they can apply it to a minority group like Mexicans and gays. The huge population of Mexican immigrants in NC has a hard time getting insurance without drivers license, whether they should be deported is another issue, but no reason to let the republicans label this anything more than what it is. It is a way to seize cars from broke ass people and Mexicans (who have money but no license).

4/10/2013 12:44:20 AM

Quote :

"minimum coverage for insurance is insanely low. Minor fender bender resulted in $75k worth of medical bills and therapy with my wife 2 years ago. Dude only had a $50k/person policy, so it was fortunate that I opted for under-insured/uninsured coverage with my policy as I didn't have to pay the difference. Minimum should be $100k medical per person. If you can't afford the insurance policy to cover your ass (financially), take a bus or taxi."

This is one of the issues that is still left up to the states; so making a change here in NC wouldn't amount to much when you consider that there are still 49 other states that may not require similar coverage and there will always be people who drive without insurance. Your best bet will always be to carry your own uninsured/underinsured policy.

[Edited on April 10, 2013 at 12:58 AM. Reason : l]

4/10/2013 12:56:38 AM

Quote :

"folks shouldn't be buying cars that take them 4 years to pay off"

Well, if you can get a low enough interest rate there's really no reason not to...

4/10/2013 6:53:10 AM

Quote :

"Minor fender bender resulted in $75k worth of medical bills and therapy with my wife 2 years ago. Dude only had a $50k/person policy, so it was fortunate that I opted for under-insured/uninsured coverage with my policy as I didn't have to pay the difference."

I'm fairly certain under-insured/uninsured is required by law. I may be wrong but that's what I've always heard

4/10/2013 7:38:20 AM

Quote :

"The NC GOP is all about this nanny state bullshit whenever they can apply it to a minority group like Mexicans and gays. The huge population of Mexican immigrants in NC has a hard time getting insurance without drivers license, whether they should be deported is another issue, but no reason to let the republicans label this anything more than what it is. It is a way to seize cars from broke ass people and Mexicans (who have money but no license)."

ha and there it is.

if a mexican (or anyone for that matter) doesn't have a license, they have NO BUSINESS driving on public roads.

[Edited on April 10, 2013 at 8:13 AM. Reason : ]

4/10/2013 8:12:26 AM

Quote :

"This sounds like a nasty scheme to force voters with no identification into purchasing a drivers license so that they can then buy insurance and only vote once. Those dirty communist republican legislators in North Carolina. I hope they rot in the hell."

10 bucks gets you a State ID card, no ins needed. This is what they want to use for voter ID.

Quote :

"All they have to do is put a $25 bounty on license plates with insurance lapses, and license private citizens/tow companies to go find the plates and turn them in to the DMV. People would have a much harder time driving around illegally with no plates on their car. It would be easy work for any brainless twit private citizen with a car, and would not require a more government employees to handle all the court cases, impound paperwork, car storage, etc. "

Youd be surprised how many times I see in Cary people driving without plates. No Plates is probably gonna be about as effective as no insurance is right now. As someone stated above, a lot of people have the system rigged as it takes months for it to register with DMV that you dont have insurance or have dropped it.

4/10/2013 8:20:17 AM

Quote :

"folks shouldn't be buying cars that take them 4 years to pay off"

Untrue.

I got my A4 in 2008 and will have it paid off this month. I probably could have paid it off in 2010. I didn't because with a 2.99% interest rate on the loan, I put the 5K for my down deposit in a ladder of CD's ranging from 6 months (1.25%) to 48 months (2.5%). In the mean time I also have the liquidity in case I needed the case and also put money in the stock market for a greater return than the APR on my car loan.

4/10/2013 8:55:22 AM

imagine how much you could've made if you didn't sink all that money in a car

4/10/2013 9:03:30 AM

I mean, I could make a shitload of money if I just drove a $800 beater and never bought a new car and instead invested all of what I would spend on a car payment into an investment, but then I'd be driving a 1997 Dodge Shadow.

4/10/2013 9:08:34 AM

I'm assuming this can only happen if someone is pulled over and cited? That it can't lead to searching out/carhunting to find offenders and take their vehicles? If so, that makes this bill a bit more palatable, but I'm still not sure if I like the idea.

this comment in the wral article:

Quote :

"I think that's ridiculous," driver Melissa Pinter said. "A lot of people don't have the money right now. There are a lot of people that are actually losing their jobs, that are homeless.""

is stupid. As long as seizures can only happen after a citation for driving without insurance, the money issue is irrelevant. If you can't afford insurance, then you don't need to be possibly screwing others on the road. and I'd think homeless drivers are very few and far between.

[Edited on April 10, 2013 at 9:16 AM. Reason : .]

4/10/2013 9:15:12 AM

Quote :

"'m not excusing the crime, but something is wrong when two people with the exact same criminal history can commit the exact same crime and one is penalized $900 while the other is penalized $19,900. (I'm saying the guy who saved or made payments for 4 years is getting screwed here.) Oh, you worked hard and bought something nice? We'll take that and sell it for whatever we can get at auction to line our own pockets. It's not like the money is going to go to help people who were hit by folks with no insurance. The state will just be lining their own pockets with this bill. Don't worry, I'm sure they'll give incentive to the local PD by giving them a small kickback for taking your shit. This is nothing like drug seizures where they can (supposedly) prove that the property was bought with money obtained through criminal activity. "

I see the point you're trying to make. But if you can afford to make payments for 4 years on a $20k car (Which would be well over $400/month, more if your credit is bad) but then can't afford to insure it for another $50/month, you've made a damn poor choice. Maybe the result of that choice shouldn't be the loss of something that you paid that much for, but there are penalties for breaking the law. If you choose to break the law you choose to be liable for the penalty.

(Plus most car loans require proof of comprehensive insurance. When the loan for one of my former cars got bought out by another finance company, my proof of insurance didn't transfer, and I got a *very* nasty letter about consequences up to repossession of the car if I didn't prove insurance immediately.)

4/10/2013 9:31:01 AM

Quote :

"I'm fairly certain under-insured/uninsured is required by law. I may be wrong but that's what I've always heard"

I just switched car insurance a few weeks ago and I believe uninsured is mandatory if you purchase a policy with the minimum liability limits. If you purchase a policy with a higher limit then you are required to have the combined uninsured/underinsured. Your combined uninsured/underinsured limits are the same as your liability limits.

So basically, if you have the minimum amount of liability insurance, you have only uninsured coverage. If you have higher liability limits, you have combined uninsured/underinsured with the same limit.

It's confusing as shit so I might be wrong but that's the way I understand it.

This is the relevant statute:

http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_20/GS_20-279.21.html

4/10/2013 9:40:49 AM

Quote :

"I'm not excusing the crime, but something is wrong when two people with the exact same criminal history can commit the exact same crime and one is penalized $900 while the other is penalized $19,900. (I'm saying the guy who saved or made payments for 4 years is getting screwed here.)"

no one is getting screwed because they both understand their relative risk and are accepting voluntarily if they drive without insurance. the guy with the $900 car is voluntarily accepting the risk of losing his $900 car (among other thngs) for driving with no insurance and the guy with the $90,000 car is voluntarily accepting the risk of losing his $90,000 car (among other things) for driving without his insurance. If the guy with the nice car would like to reduce his risk to only losing a $900 car, he can just drive a $900 car.

No one is getting screwed because they are voluntarily establishing the amount of risk and exposure they have through their illegal activity.

4/10/2013 10:28:45 AM

They should seize peoples houses that are not insured too, who is going to pay for the neighbors house if one explodes and burns down the surrounding ones? Gas explosions happen all the time.

4/10/2013 10:42:39 AM

^^ Ahh yes...The old "don't do the crime if you can't do the time" argument. Always a good excuse to turn a blind eye to the eighth amendment to the constitution.

Quote :

"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

But hey, it's not technically a "fine" when they seize someones car.
Are you really arguing that you think the state should be able to seize a $90,000 car due to an insurance lapse alone?

4/10/2013 12:57:32 PM

they can for other crimes and there haven't been any court decisions saying it violates the 8th amendment

4/10/2013 12:59:12 PM

Ah, another Republican bill.

4/10/2013 1:03:38 PM

I'm fine with heavy fines and seizure of ones car until the authorized drive of the vehicle can furbish insurance.

I do not believe the car's possession should outright be given to the state if one is caught driving without insurance.

4/10/2013 1:09:37 PM

Yeah if you have no insurance impound the car at drivers expense until they bring proof of insurance. You can't seize someone's vehicle entirely for something like this.

4/10/2013 1:14:43 PM

I don't think this bill is about not having your insurance card, its about not being insured. (can't they tell if your insurance has lapsed from the DMV?)

^that's exactly what this bill is about, seizure and sale of the vehicle.

Quote :

"Upon conviction of the operator of a motor vehicle for the violation listed in subsection (a) of this section, the court shall order a sale at public auction of the seized motor vehicle in accordance with the following conditions: (1) The officer making the sale shall make the following deductions from the sale proceeds: a. The expenses of keeping the motor vehicle. b. The fee for the seizure. c. The costs of the sale. The officer shall then pay from the net proceeds, all liens, according to their priorities, which are established by intervention or otherwise at the hearing or in other proceeding brought for said purpose as being bona fide. The officer shall pay the balance of the proceeds to the proper officer of the county who receives fines and forfeitures to be used for the school fund of the county."

4/10/2013 1:24:34 PM

Im a current citizen of Georgia, and it looks like someone else has finally taken our title of "state with the most worthless General Assembly". Every day it's something new up there, I really feel bad for y'all.

And regardless of whether you agree or disagree with this law and the idea of towing companies profiting off of NC citizens, seems like a silly ass thing for the state to focus on. There are already penalties in place, right? What's the need for additional ones being driven by? Oh well, guess its better than spending time creating a state religion, creating amendments to ban gay marriage, etc.

4/10/2013 1:27:19 PM

the penalties aren't very good for driving without insurance, its a growing problem

4/10/2013 1:37:10 PM

The G.O.P.

Quote :

"GRUMPY OLD PUSSIES"

4/10/2013 11:52:24 PM

Who is Bill and why does he want my car

4/10/2013 11:54:22 PM

Quote :

"oh damn...they took my $900 car; where will I raise the money to buy another? vs oh damn...they took the car I worked my ass off for 4 years to pay off and was counting on to get me to work for the next 4 years while I saved for a house."

yeah cause people with $900 cars don't have to pay rent and won't get evicted

4/11/2013 2:05:59 AM