Watch spain live:

40 cities protest!!!!!


http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution

9/29/2012 2:06:03 PM

Are these more "we want more free money from Germany" protests?

9/29/2012 3:19:40 PM

I think they are we have over a quarter unemployed and will now have even more protests

9/29/2012 3:39:11 PM

And also

Why the Euro was dumb protests

9/29/2012 3:39:32 PM

It's so pretty why isn't everyone happy?

[Edited on September 29, 2012 at 4:01 PM. Reason : H]

9/29/2012 4:00:27 PM

they dont have anything better to do since they arent working....so go protest!

9/29/2012 4:11:59 PM

What are they protesting? That the government has to cut programs and the budget because they are trillions of dollars in debt?

Where will the money come from? Increase taxes even more?

Hmmm, so maybe they are protesting that taxes aren't high enough to keep all the current government programs and services.

9/29/2012 4:35:20 PM

They're "We're not willing to cede fiscal responsibility to people that actually know how to manage money" protests.

Also, not even remotely a revolution. Stop throwing that god damned word around so much.

9/29/2012 5:52:45 PM

So many questions and shot in the dark answers, but so little knowledge flowing ITT.


Perhaps we should get to the bottom of why 600,000 people stop what they're doing to join in an adventure to change their government.

9/29/2012 6:17:41 PM

I'll approach this with the seriousness a GxB thread deserves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siesta

9/29/2012 6:20:29 PM

Jazon, go to chit chat to troll and play around.

9/29/2012 6:23:16 PM

You can't have a single currency without a single government. Wait, I take that back, you shouldn't have a single currency without a single government.

9/29/2012 6:23:47 PM

^^ Why would I limit laughing at you to just one section?

9/29/2012 6:25:26 PM

Jazon, please go to chit chat to troll and play around.

9/29/2012 6:26:09 PM

Why would I limit laughing at you to just one section?

9/29/2012 6:26:26 PM

From the AP Wire: MADRID (AP) -- Tens of thousands of Spaniards and Portuguese rallied in the streets of their countries' capitals Saturday to protest enduring deep economic pain from austerity measure, and the demonstration in Madrid turned violent after Spaniards enraged over a long-lasting recession and sky-high unemployment clashed with riot police for the third time in less than a week near Parliament.

The latest violence came after thousands of Spaniards who had marched close to the Parliament building in downtown Madrid protested peacefully for hours. Police with batons later moved in just before midnight to clear out those who remained late because no permission had been obtained from authorities to hold the demonstration.

Some protesters responded by throwing bottles and rocks. An Associated Press photographer saw police severely beat one protester who was taken away in an ambulance.

25% unemployment and additional pain from austerity measures are a dangerous mix.

9/30/2012 8:39:27 AM

GxB, you realize these protestors are demanding MORE government spending right? If your boy Paul were in charge there they would probably break into tha palace and lynch him.

9/30/2012 8:52:11 AM

Guns, ammo and food. This is PROOF that there WILL be tanks rolling down Fayetteville Street within a year.

9/30/2012 11:16:46 AM

If these protesters are demanding more government spending, they should also be demanding dramatic tax increases to cover the cost of increased government spending and the deficit. I'm sure it will really help the economy.

9/30/2012 12:38:00 PM

Quote :

"Are these more "we want more free money from Germany" protests?"

Exactly. Even people in these countries complain about how lazy their countrymen are.

9/30/2012 12:51:59 PM

Quote :

"GxB, you realize these protestors are demanding MORE government spending right? If your boy Paul were in charge there they would probably break into tha palace and lynch him."

This tells me you don't understand the protest.

9/30/2012 3:20:04 PM

These are austerity protests. They are protesting the way the laws are being passed. It seems the ones taking the hit are the poor and middle class (sound familiar) while the government and rich hardly feel the burn.

In essence, the system is moving toward a system of slavery of the middle class and the poor through debt and rule of law.


It's much more complicated than it looks and what the government is doing is more messed up, unequal, and unfair than you care to imagine.

9/30/2012 3:26:16 PM

They want more government

9/30/2012 3:38:27 PM

"They want more government" said no Spaniard ever.

9/30/2012 3:42:55 PM

Well, if they don't want to cut any government programs and services, they can greatly reduce the deficit and continue to spend if they increase taxes greatly.


Maybe Spain should do what France is trying to do and tax the richest people 75% of their income...

http://economywatch.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/28/14137911-france-wants-to-slap-rich-with-75-percent-super-tax?lite

Quote :

"75 percent super-tax rate for earnings over one million euros and a new 45 percent band for revenues over 150,000 euros."

1 million euros = 1.285 million dollars
150,000 euros = 192,500 dollars

So someone making $192.5k in the US would be keeping just over $100k with France's tax system.

9/30/2012 3:59:31 PM

What would you do as a rich man who earned that money through hard, tireless, thankless work?

Do you think that policy is fair?

9/30/2012 4:09:38 PM

The thing is the 1.9 million includes net earning of a business. I guess the thing is that it has the potential to hurt businesses so much so that businesses will leave France and unemployment will go up.

I was saying, if they really want to keep government spending up, they will have to increase taxes dramatically. Unfortunately, increasing taxes will hurt small businesses and I can foresee unemployment going up further.

9/30/2012 4:19:37 PM

Correct. The problem is that government knows no bounds with spending.

Even if you taxed 100% of the population's paycheck, the government will find a way to spend it.

The problem is government borrowing. If you allow the government to borrow money, they will keep spending money after they run out.

If you tell the government to stop borrowing money, then they MUST stop spending money when the money runs out.

That is when taxes must be increased or decreased.

But what's been happening is that the government has been allowed to spend more and more without raising taxes. This is what causes debt.

9/30/2012 4:24:33 PM

So basically, you agree with the people they are demonstrating against

9/30/2012 4:33:49 PM

I have no idea how you come to that conclusion with the words I typed, you must have misread something or I must have not communicated properly. Can you explain your thought process further please.

9/30/2012 4:38:26 PM

You think Spain and Greece need to decrease spending because they can't afford it?

9/30/2012 4:40:41 PM

Correct, that's what they should do. But unfortunately, there's a right way to cut spending and there is a wrong way to cut spending. The right way of cutting spending doesn't involve a country wide protest.

9/30/2012 4:47:46 PM

What's your non austerity plan?

9/30/2012 4:49:47 PM

Nothing complicated. Just, Fair, and Equal cuts for everyone.



Disclaimer: I have to remind you that the debt is so large that it would take 30 or 40 years to pay off. Some believe the debt is so big that it's impossible to pay off.
I think the best thing to do is start the entire government over. Everyone start over. No debt.
Put rules into place that the government cannot borrow money. They have to use what's in their bank account.

9/30/2012 4:51:21 PM

So basically you have no idea

If its so easy, why has no one else figured out this nice fair way to do it that doesn't make people mad?

9/30/2012 5:19:53 PM

I have no idea why you say I have no idea when I'm giving you straight forward answers.


I don't see anywhere that says this is an easy task. The idea is a simple one.


There are many people that have figured out my solution of a revolution as the best way to solve the crisis. It's why 100,000+ people surrounded Congress to demand their removal from office.

It is certain that nothing is getting done with the players in office, in fact, those players are the ones that caused the mess and they are incapable of getting them out.

Not only are the incapable, they are throwing gas on the fires, so to speak, to speed up the crisis.
You can see this for yourself by looking at their past decisions as the crisis was growing into the monster it is today.

9/30/2012 5:31:00 PM

Your solution is to default on the debts?

9/30/2012 5:59:20 PM

^^they are protesting because of additional austerity measures

9/30/2012 7:20:32 PM

GxB thinks the fucking protests are being held for the opposite reason that they're actually being held.

9/30/2012 8:09:37 PM

Thank you for inserting your unsubstantiated claim to demean my character for no reason other than your own amusement.

If I remember right, I started this thread which means I care about the subject, I pay attention to non-united states sources, I watch the protests live, and most importantly, I listen to interviews from people from the protests live on ustream.


Yet Jazon is the expert without reading a single article about it. We've already substantiated that you were trolling the thread, so this is my last time I'm going to respond you.

Quote :

"they are protesting because of additional austerity measures"

Can you name the austerity measures that they are protesting for me, please?

9/30/2012 8:19:59 PM

*yawn*

Quote :

"Thank you for inserting your unsubstantiated claim to demean my character"

Quote :

"Yet Jazon is the expert without reading a single article about it."

Mighty big hypocritical assumption you made there. GG.

[Edited on September 30, 2012 at 8:42 PM. Reason : ]

9/30/2012 8:39:21 PM

The new round of austerity measures that they just announced that sparked the marches and protests. Are you being serious.

Also, do you know what austerity measures are, what that means for spending?

You have things backwards, they wouldn't agree with you.

9/30/2012 8:52:30 PM

Quote :

"So someone making $192.5k in the US would be keeping just over $100k with France's tax system. "

NO.
If someone earned 192.6k then $100 is taxed at 45%, the first 192.5k is taxed at a lower rate.

9/30/2012 8:56:48 PM

^

I don't get where the myth of "if you earn 1 more dollar you will lose thousands in extra taxes!" comes from.

9/30/2012 9:03:02 PM

Republicans

9/30/2012 9:14:54 PM

^^there are certain tax breaks you lose out on as your AGI increases but they are usually phased out

9/30/2012 9:45:51 PM

I've been looking around for evidence that the PIGS countries are lazy, or deserve what they are getting

but I just haven't found anything convincing

http://jweeks.org/41%20Lazy%20PIGS.html

The Greeks, ground zero for the laziness claim in Europe:

-The retirement age is the same in Greece and Germany (65 w/ some exceptions)
-Greeks work 48% more hours a year than Germans
-Productivity is higher in Germany, but before the recession GDP growth in Greece was higher per worker
-Before the recession, Greece spent slightly less of its GDP on social expenditures than Germany.

10/3/2012 9:45:44 AM

I'm going to throw out the obligatory and possibly ignorant, "They're all a bunch of tax evading assholes."

10/3/2012 11:54:57 AM

^Yeah, that's the main thing that I heard too. It's acceptable to not pay taxes.

10/3/2012 11:59:51 AM

Didn't they also basically lie their way into the EU and their economy has been in the dump for decades?

Again, I'm going off vague memories of EU/Western Europe classes and am far too lazy to look anything up.

[Edited on October 3, 2012 at 12:03 PM. Reason : And I'm at work.]

10/3/2012 12:02:49 PM