I've been blowing up the other threads quite a bit and would like to consolidate my questions/discussions, if our overlords will allow.

Anywho... I'm just going to ramble now... if anyone wants to respond, I'd appreciate it.

Looking for a 3+ bed, 2+ bath, preferably with a bonus room, in Wake County or West Johnston County.

I'm very interested in a pre-sell in Wendell, with some upgrades (some I'll have the contractor do within the loan, some outside the loan, and others I'll just do myself).

1. House comes with slab foundation. I prefer crawl space, but I do know that these foundations can cause moisture concerns in the house if not done properly; whereas slab foundations can make cold floors. Is it worth it to upgrade to a crawl space for $2,500? I think that price is high by about $500, but I'm no contractor. Also, with the slab foundation he does a concrete front and rear patio; however, he hasn't worked out what he's doing with the crawl space. He says he's working on drawing up plans for a porch and deck... so I'm not sure if that will increase the upgrade price.

2. Screened concrete patio. I know the rear concrete patio comes covered. I figured I could to the screening later; I think all I'd need is for the builder to include posts attached to the house for me to tie into; as opposed to having just posts on the edge of the patio. Builder charges $750 to screen in the patio. Not sure how this would change if I go crawl space + deck.

3. Flooring. I have a dog and the girlfriend has cats. I'm concerned about damage. I prefer solid hardwoods. I think I want to do hardwoods in the dining and family room; tile in the entry, kitchen, laundry, and 2.5 bathrooms. I can choose the tile from anywhere; builder charges $11.00/sf for his materials and labor. I can choose hardwood from anywhere; builder charges $4.50/sf. I think both rates are high. Builder also said unless I wanted to spend the money, tile in the laundry and half bath (connected) would be wasted - no one really sees it and vinyl would be much cheaper to install/replace, as opposed to tile, since it could be damaged by the washer/dryer. Doing carpet in the 3 bedrooms.

4. Tile backsplash. Figured I would just do on my own later, since it is relatively simple/cheap. Just need to rent equipment. I've asked in another thread about adjusting the light switches/outlets to be flush. It appears longer screw will do; but do I need to get a box extender to be up to code?

5. Kitchen countertops. I love granite. Builder charges $1,800 for materials + labor. I think that's pretty close, maybe a few hundred high. Probably will stay away from solid surface since those are just as much as granite. Standard is laminate... I don't like it... but it's $1,800 I can use elsewhere... thoughts?

6. Carriage doors. Builder charges $250 to change all interior doors to carriage style... I really like the look, but when adding all the upgrades together, I'm getting too expensive... thinking I'll stick with the builder's standard doors which are pretty nice.

7. Fridge. Not included... but I'm hoping to negotiate that in and forgo some other upgrades, like the upgraded doors, etc.

8. Appliances. I LOVE stainless appliances, but those will likely cost me $1,000 more than the standard white. Upgrading to black would be about $500. I get to pick all appliances... stainless worth it?

9. Ceiling fans. Builder provides 2 pre-wired, separate switch, plus the cost of the fans (my choice). $120 for extra fans, plus fan cost. $50 to install the fans. I want fans in everyroom... but at $170/fan it gets to be a lot (at least 4 extra fans).

10. Electrical outlets. I need to check the # provided, but I'd likely add some. $75/outlet sounds very high, but I'm not an electrician.

11. Gas fireplace. What happened to wood fireplaces ? Anywho, $3,000 for the fireplace, framing, and blowers. I think I have to have a fireplace for emergencies/resell... but damn, $3,000?

12. Self closing drawers. $500 upgrade... cool... but probably not worth it at that price.

13. Privacy fence. One of my most wanted features, but with other upgrades, I don't want to add even more. Builder charges $15/ft... seems high to me... I was thinking more around $10-$12, but I don't really know. I know it's a lot of work, but I guess I can do this on my own later. My only concern is keeping it in my property, but not creating the hassle of having it far enough off the property line where I have to maintain on both sides. I'd rather not have to pay for another survey (in fact, I don't think I have to pay for one at all, since it's already been done... I guess that's up to the bank). I'm hoping I can get the builder to leave property corner stakes and then add some intermediate stakes as well so I can pull a straight line.

14. Surround sound. I want to do a simple surround sound in the bonus room. Builder said $600 for this, but that seems very high. It's <100 ft of speaker wire and some terminals. No way that's $600. And I'm not talking about multi-room and wiring the entire room. Just near/around the entertainment center/couch and then the wall behind the couch. Is there something I'm missing?

15. French doors. Builder has standard sliding glass door from dining room to rear patio. I HATE sliding doors. Builder said $500 to upgrade to french doors. I have no clue about that price, but it is two more exterior doors, so I guess they can be expensive.

16. Upgrade costs. Looking at these costs and talking to the builder... it seems like the upgrade costs are high (normal, I know), but to me, they don't seem to include not using the standard features. For example, are french doors really $500 more than a sliding glass door? Is a granite kitchen really $1,800 more than a laminate kitchen?

Ok, I'm tired of typing for now.

[Edited on February 16, 2012 at 11:14 AM. Reason : .]

2/16/2012 11:14:35 AM

Quote :

"Standard is laminate... I don't like it... but it's $1,800 I can use elsewhere... thoughts?"

Get the countertops. You'll enjoy the house more, resell will be higher.

I would say yes to the first...and maybe? to the second. If those features are important to you, look into how much it would be to get that done afterwards. I know the doors would be cheaper upfront, and I'm thinking the countertops might be too. Also consider the fact that upgrades will increase your home value, to some degree.

Quote :

"I think I have to have a fireplace for emergencies/resell... but damn, $3,000?"

Some buyers don't like fireplaces. They just get in the way I'm not sure you need one...

Quote :

"but at $170/fan it gets to be a lot (at least 4 extra fans)."

Well consider how much it would be to add a fan where there isn't one, if you hire someone. The work isn't *that* bad if you do it yourself...just a question if you want to do that or not. Then there's the issue of running a control wire or using remotes, with the first option being more expensive, and preferable.

Quote :

"Appliances. I LOVE stainless appliances, but those will likely cost me $1,000 more than the standard white. Upgrading to black would be about $500. I get to pick all appliances... stainless worth it?"

maybe? doubtful? i'd have to see the numbers and models. sometimes you can do better locally. i buy most appliances from sears during their friends and family events. maybe buy the ones you want and sell the builder grade crap while it's still new?

Quote :

" For example, are french doors really $500 more than a sliding glass door? Is a granite kitchen really $1,800 more than a laminate kitchen?"

The doors yes...Pretty sure they would cost more to put in afterwards, unless you're really handy. Contertops, up to you but I would.



In general though, I would probably fall into the "get it done now while you can package it into a loan with a low APR" camp, as opposed to doing it later, assuming you can pick your materials/colors and you aren't getting killed on the pricing

2/16/2012 2:11:59 PM

I would say a quick "yes" to...

- Granite Countertops. But check prices at places around and have someone do it for you if you can find cheaper. My granite counterops are great...and I got them really cheap.

- Stainless Steel. It does look that much better. And if you sell any time in the near future, its a big plus in the buyers eyes (if you include them in the sale of course).

- Extra outlets. If you're not an electrician, I say don't fuck with it.


What do you mean you'll have to have fireplace for "emergencies"...you mean if your heat goes out?? I don't think fireplaces are necessary for either of the two reasons you gave. If you want one, get one...but $3,000 is a lot. Definitely a personal preference on that one.

2/16/2012 2:18:20 PM

Quote :

" If you want one, get one...but $3,000 is a lot. Definitely a personal preference on that one."

Yah no way you get that money back these days. You'll get a lot out of the stainless, french doors, and stainless, but not the fireplace.

2/16/2012 2:28:14 PM

Quote :

"I can choose hardwood from anywhere; builder charges $4.50/sf."

Assuming this is just the cost to install? Or does this absorb any of the cost of the floor? If you did solid unfinished, you could assume $6/sqft, depending on what you buy.

RE: the gas logs. Put them in afterward if you decide you want them. You can get them for cheaper than $3k.

Definitely go stainless.

Looked at any other options for countertops than granite or solid surface? Lots of other options out there. And everyone does granite.

2/16/2012 2:45:24 PM

Yeah...meant to add on the fireplace thing...

I would use the $3,000 on the rest of the upgrades and say screw the fireplace. Don't think it's as big of a deal as you're making it out to be (unless this house is in the mountains or way up North).

2/16/2012 2:48:48 PM

crawl space yes. treating for termites, etc is much much much cheaper and easier.

granite yes, depending on the square footage of the counters, that seems pretty reasonable. we love ours and glad we did them.

as far as the appliances, i wouldn't worry so much about the finish as I would the functionality. as an example, i would much rather have a white convection oven than a stainless non-convection. this is really going to come down to how much cooking you do.

ceiling fans are really easy to DIY

pass on the fireplace

can you run speakerwire yourself?

2/16/2012 2:49:06 PM

Thanks for the responses.

Granite counter tops - I measured 52 sf of kitchen counter space, based on me tracing the floorplan out in AutoCAD I'm planning to go visit the neighborhood and measure one of the houses under construction. $1,800 seems to be pretty close to what I can find, but I'm going to do more searching. Lowe's had granite around $40/sf installed, which is higher than what the builder is quoting (unless my estimated measurement is off). Solid surface seems to be as much as granite now, and I prefer granite.

Screened porch - I'll make sure the builder leaves it such that I can screen later.

Fireplace - emergencies as in electricity goes out in the winter and still having a source of heat. Though I'm having trouble finding total costs for gas fireplaces (propane). Guess I need to make some phone calls. How difficult is it to add the fireplace afterwards? Seems like a pain to have to go back and run a gas line through the wall. I'm in NC, so I know it isn't that cold... but I do remember the ice storms of the 90s and our fireplace at my childhood home making the house livable without power for 2 weeks.

Fans - remote fans may be easy enough. But do I need to access the attic to install the bracket, etc.? If so, that may be a challenge (tight space in the attic in some areas). Part of the house has vaulted ceilings, so I'd have to/prefer to get those prewired/installed. If I go with switched fans, preferred, I'd rather have them pre-wired so they can be on separate switches.

Hardwood - $4.50 is everything but the hardwood itself (I think). Going prefinished.

Crawl space - heard ya on treating for termites. Definitely considering this; though I'm concerned about the price once the builder comes up with a porch/deck plan.

Speaker wiring - I probably can run speakerwire myself; just not exactly sure on how to run it through the walls and repairing the damage. I priced it out at $200 using monoprice and amazon and a labor of $1/ft of wire run (just assumed 100' total, which should be over estimated if this is done during construction, thus running rear speaker wires under the floor, which is much shorter than above the ceiling). The builder has to have something different in mind when he's thinking prewiring... 300% markup seems excessive.



Any suggestions on who to call for some estimates for any of this?



[Edited on February 16, 2012 at 3:47 PM. Reason : .]

2/16/2012 3:34:55 PM

Use lamp chord for speaker wire and save $texas.

2/16/2012 4:14:21 PM

^do you realize that speaker wire is just as cheap? especially at monoprice.

2/16/2012 4:44:37 PM

When you say add a fireplace, you don't mean the actual cutout for the unit do you? I'm assuming you just mean the actual logs themselves. That's cake. Hardest part is the gas line, but that's relatively simple.

You shouldn't need attic access for installing ceiling fans. I've never had to do that...

$4.50/sqft on hardwood install is probably a little high, but not terribly unreasonable.

2/16/2012 5:13:01 PM

Quote :

"^do you realize that speaker wire is just as cheap? especially at monoprice."

That's cool then. I always have ended up needing speaker wire as a quick project.

2/16/2012 8:50:13 PM

^^the entire unit - log insert, framing, etc. whatever is needed for something like a corner unit outside of the wall. and I would need attic access. I hate single switched ceiling fans/lights. Much prefer separate switches.

^yeh; I mean, you can spend texa$ on speaker wire, but monoprice has it for very similar prices to zip cord

[Edited on February 16, 2012 at 9:59 PM. Reason : ,]

2/16/2012 9:34:13 PM

Quote :

"Speaker wiring - I probably can run speakerwire myself; just not exactly sure on how to run it through the walls and repairing the damage. I priced it out at $200 using monoprice and amazon and a labor of $1/ft of wire run (just assumed 100' total, which should be over estimated if this is done during construction, thus running rear speaker wires under the floor, which is much shorter than above the ceiling). The builder has to have something different in mind when he's thinking prewiring... 300% markup seems excessive."

Is he installing wall plates for HDMI or anything like that?

My coworker was building a house and just waited until the framing was up, and the contractor didn't care that he went out and ran some speaker wire and cat6 himself.

If you end up going with a slab instead of a crawl space, you'll have to use wire molding if you do this after-the-fact too (another reason crawl spaces are better...).

[Edited on February 16, 2012 at 11:18 PM. Reason : ]

2/16/2012 11:15:31 PM

^no HDMI, just 7 speaker wire runs. this is in a 2nd story room so foundation wont' matter.

2/16/2012 11:24:24 PM

if you end up running the speaker wire, pull more than 7 locations too in case you want to reconfigure things later or want to go to wall mounted speakers instead of floor standing speakers etc.

2/16/2012 11:35:30 PM

I have wall mounted speakers. I can't think of a way I'd rearrange; this is in one of those long and skinny bonus rooms. I guess there's a chance I could change to floor speakers, but I doubt I would.

the only thing I'm not sure about is what to do with the extra 2 speakers in 7.1. 2 fronts, 2 rears, but there isn't a good place for the 2 mids, unless I mount those on the ceiling... but there will be a ceiling fan there. I could just run 2 sets of fronts, as that is an option for my receiver.

[Edited on February 16, 2012 at 11:52 PM. Reason : .]

2/16/2012 11:51:06 PM

Have you already signed anything with a builder?

I'm going to take a step back and play a little devils advocate for a minute.

The entire OP was a discussion you are having on base vs. upgrades on a pre-sell. Given the market conditions and the saturation of inventory, you can buy house that is already finished, new, with the upgrades, for pretty damn close to the base price. Granted, it won't be YOUR fixtures and finishes you pick out, but if you're getting them for free, you can be picky. Hell, I bought a short sale (100k below cost custom spec) in '09 and have managed to lose 10% of value in 2 years. We are at the bottom for all intents and purposes. At the point you pay for upgrades, in this market, you are paying too much. I'm east of Clayton and in the 2200-2600sf range, all brick, fully loaded houses are going for $90/sf. And they have NEVER BEEN LIVED IN! The further out you go, the more bang for your buck you get. It is a buyers market. Take advantage of it.

2/17/2012 9:40:01 AM

^I've looked at similar homes and they're pretty close to the price I'm paying when considering with or without the upgrades. The primary selling points for me and this home are: 1) land (lots from 0.75 - 2.67 ac) 2) not a cookie-cutter plain looking subdivision with shitty looking houses 10' apart 3) convenient to work 4) no city taxes. In fact, most of them end up being more expensive because they are in Raleigh City Limits. Trust me, I've looked at 100+ homes and wouldn't be considering this home if it weren't a better deal.

Haven't signed anything yet.

And while I realize there are better deals further away from Raleigh, I'm not open to long commutes.

2/17/2012 10:05:40 AM

Talked with my father in law about the hardwood installation cost...says 4.50 is way expensive. Said he could probably save 1-2k over the builder's price depending on how much you're doing.

2/17/2012 8:58:33 PM

Yeh, I've seen $2-$3/sf for hardwood installation (everything but the wood). My realtor talked to the builder and told him my concerns about the upgrade prices, and the builder said I'd be surprised at what we could work out. So I'm going to proceed with an offer and we'll negotiate from there. I won't be paying the builder's advertised costs for sure; and if he ends up not being very negotiable, then I'll just walk away.

[Edited on February 19, 2012 at 6:53 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2012 6:53:30 PM

Told you I pay $1.5/ft for install...

2/19/2012 10:36:53 PM

I'm sure if he is building a lot of "production style" homes then he makes the majority of his money on upgrades. If you are truely concerned about money and money only You may be better off getting the bare minimums and upgrading as you go.


- $11/ft for tile install is at least $3/ft too high.
- $60/ panel for the screening
- if the builder says no one is going to see your half bath he is dumb. Where will your guests go to the restroom?
- buy the granite. Laminate counter tops were cool in 85. There are a lot of hungry granite companies out there.
- he's already paying for a door and labor to put it in. A solid core door cost is $250. Where is the deduct for the base doors
- at the least get the black appliances
- tell him to just put in fan boxes on one switch. Buy a fan later that has a remote.
- find out when the electrician is roughing in and pay one of the mexicans out there $20/ outlet to add...profit
- wood fireplace will be much more than $3k. If you have a ceiling fan and it's a relatively small room you don't need a blower. New nice set of direct vent logs is $1200. Framing is $150 maybe. Another $600-700 to trim/paint.
- don't need self closing drawers. If y'all can't handle closing drawers without slamming them then you shouldn't be owning a home to begin with.
- save the fence money. Just like the granite... There are a tone of more than capable guys out there that would be happy to build a fence for less than $15/ft
- nope. At the max $150. You could do this yourself really cheap at rough-in if you want to stop by my house this week I'll show you what I did
- $500 to upgrade to french is not terrible as long as the "fixed" side is not permanently fixed

Like I said... In this style of building a lot of money is made on upgrades.

2/19/2012 11:23:33 PM

Thanks. I forgot you had said $1.50.

I've done some more research to get fair prices, so I have a better idea of what I am willing to pay; so if the builder doesn't want to negotiate, I'll just walk away.

The half bath is off of the laundry room, not in a real guest type area (behind the kitchen). A full hallway bath would be the bathroom of choice for guests.

Decided to definitely go with granite

$250 was the total cost to change all interior doors to carriage style; is that high?

Yes, high gloss black is my minimum

Gas log fireplace; no wood burning fireplace (too expensive anyways). And the gas log fireplace is ventless, for what that's worth.

The self closing drawers aren't really a big deal to me; just a negotiating tool (I'm hoping)

The fence will be another negotiating tool; if he won't do it for a better price, then I'll do it later.

I priced the materials for surround sound at $100-$125. I think his definition of surround sound was different than mine. Again, if the builder is sticking to a high price, then I'll do it myself.

French doors are both moveable.



I'm still going back and forth for flooring. Can't decide if I want tile or hardwood in kitchen. I'm primarily concerned with appliance malfunctions (dishwasher, sink, fridge) and water.

[Edited on February 20, 2012 at 12:32 PM. Reason : .]

2/20/2012 12:26:11 PM

$250 total for the doors is fine

2/20/2012 8:13:41 PM

thanks.


anyone heard of/done soundproofing/deadening in bathroom & bedroom walls? my mom said since I was doing new construction, I should consider this, but the only soundproofing I know of is pretty damn expensive... unless we're just talking about throwing some R19 or something in there.

2/21/2012 9:10:28 AM

insulation would definitely help a lot. I wouldn't worry about real "soundproofing." Get a solid door and throw some insulation in the walls and you'll have a pretty quiet bathroom.

2/21/2012 9:42:43 AM

Yep. Basically just insulating those interior walls. Buy the insulation yourself and go over there and pay $20 to the installer. Profit

2/21/2012 9:53:59 AM

haha, the bullshit begins. made an offer and the builder said no; though I offered pretty much what he said I could get into the house for, plus the upgrades I wanted. Either he likes bullshitting or is just forgetful.

2/22/2012 2:42:54 PM