Thinking about my options in regards to service in the military...

War is pretty much over and I've done what I set out to do... Not so sure about a post-war military. I've taken steps to become an officer, but... wife is not sure she wants to do this anymore. To be honest, I am spiritually tired of this sort of thing too and at the same time, this is what I know.

Am I coming to an understanding and going through a phase? Or should I just cut off this good thing I have going to pursue something better...

9/6/2011 4:10:26 PM

It's natural to second guess yourself at any big transition point in life, but I'm gonna say we need more than 3-4 lines of talking in vague generalities to offer you any sort of informed advice.

9/6/2011 4:15:03 PM

^

9/6/2011 4:55:50 PM

I'm quickly approaching the end of my first enlistment, and while it was only four years, I feel like I experienced a lot (Korea, Italy, 1 deployment to SWA). I'm pretty much jaded out about the military, I don't know if it's just boredom of my current AFSC or what, but I'm tired of it. I'm proud of my service and am glad I did it, but man, it's so much more bullshit than it needs to be.

I'm not just talking about the deployments, the ops tempo, pt, 12-14 hour shifts at times etc...it's the small things, the medical system screw ups, leadership, triple redundancy on stupid things, pointless tasks that just don't need to exist. Not only that, when I made my intention on getting out clear, I was treated like a traitor for abandoning the military. I used to want to do the ROTC thing and be an O, but not any more, I don't want to be part of this system which I know I will never be able to change.

9/6/2011 5:02:20 PM

I would wait until November 7th, 2012.

That way you'll know if the economy is going to tank because of Obama or recover because of not-Obama being in the White House.

9/6/2011 6:12:15 PM

If your heart's not in whatever you're doing then I would recommend finding something else.

9/6/2011 8:04:49 PM

Thank all of you for your service

9/6/2011 8:11:45 PM

Im getting out as well. I cant do anymore deployments. I am so tired of "falling behind" feeling you get when you deploy. For some the military is awesome, but for me it was just a stepping stone for better things in life. I do not regret anything I ever did in the military, and I am glad for all the real friends I met there.

I do wish you the best of luck in whatever decision you make.

9/6/2011 8:19:00 PM

Quote :

"I would wait until November 7th, 2012. That way you'll know if the economy is going to tank because of Obama or recover because of not-Obama being in the White House. "

Weird. It's almost as if you're implying the military is about a paycheck, and not about service.

9/6/2011 8:24:54 PM

Heinlein had this same dilemma, I'm sure - though it wasn't as apparent as one might assume.

That is to say, "Starship Troopers" is the kind of novel that gets your blood boiling and makes you want to serve your country.

Every novel after that? Hippy Shit. Not literally, but he definitely made a distinct shift in mindset as he progressed in his life.

I think the military is one of those "rites of passage" wherein you ought to undergo it, but it is either for you (and you become a "lifer") or you gain what you can from the experience, and move past it when the time is right - satisfied with your contribution to an organization that is bigger than yourself.


You should always, always, always pursue what you want to pursue though - and if this means you have to use the military as a stepping stone (financial, schooling, etc.) to get there, then so be it. But learn from every experience and keep moving forward, regardless of military or civilian standing.

9/6/2011 8:25:50 PM

Whatever bullshit you're tired of in the military is the same bullshit you'll face in the corporate world. Minus the PT at 6am. At least now you've got a jump on retirement.

9/6/2011 8:42:59 PM

Quote :

"Whatever bullshit you're tired of in the military is the same bullshit you'll face in the corporate world."

Lies.

Quote :

"Im getting out as well. I cant do anymore deployments."

Man, I love deployments. I'm always ready to come home after a few months, but I've deployed twice and volunteered for a couple more after that (though wasn't needed in either case). I'm going to get out first of all so I can stay in one place with my daughter, but I'd be very inclined to get out regardless due to the silly chickenshit. It's intolerable as a Captain; I can't even imagine how much of a giant pain in the ass it would be as a young enlisted guy.

[Edited on September 6, 2011 at 9:02 PM. Reason : I love lots of things about my job...but stupid shit that is totally unnecessary pisses me off a lot]

9/6/2011 9:00:09 PM

^MOS?

9/6/2011 9:40:48 PM

Naval Flight Officer, EA-6B

[Edited on September 6, 2011 at 10:12 PM. Reason : ]

9/6/2011 10:10:53 PM

I'm assuming that's not your PMOS.

9/6/2011 10:13:58 PM

yeah, it is

[Edited on September 6, 2011 at 10:15 PM. Reason : why would you guess that?]

9/6/2011 10:15:16 PM

You changed it from electronics to air wing.

My spidey sense.... it tingled.

9/6/2011 10:23:32 PM

ah, i just described it in more generic terms.

since my screenname is my last name, i didn't want anyone I work with to stumble across me on a google search and post-stalk me.

[Edited on September 6, 2011 at 10:49 PM. Reason : it's both...i'm half attack jet navigator/radio talker/weapons guy and half electronic warfare nerd]

9/6/2011 10:44:22 PM

Air wing and you're dissatisfied?

That is unanticipated.

9/6/2011 10:50:48 PM

what drives me away has nothing to do with the air wing.

I have a hard time tolerating the fun police and the safety nazis. Fucking glowbeltism, risk-aversion, micromanaging, and "intrusive leadership".

and swinging with the wing is a double-edged sword. The lifestyle is better in many ways (although there are a lot of long hours), but there is some pussyness that I didn't really have in mind when I got into this business. Mostly, it's the aforementioned stuff, though.



Don't get me wrong--there are a lot of things I really, really like, both about my specific job and about being a Marine officer in general...but the things I don't like really, really frustrate me.

9/6/2011 10:58:44 PM

Quote :

"Weird. It's almost as if you're implying the military is about a paycheck, and not about service."

Why does everyone automatically assume an either/or attitude with benefits vs. sense of duty? Nobody serves purely on a sense of duty, surely as nobody stays in merely because you get a paycheck. I'm all for service, but short of a Chinese invasion, if you cut my pay, I'm gonna jump ship at the nearest opportunity.

Quote :

""Whatever bullshit you're tired of in the military is the same bullshit you'll face in the corporate world.""

Half-lies. Yeah, everyone has workplace politics and stupidity to deal with, but unlike a 9-to-5, the military insists on controlling every little aspect of your life. Motorcycles, weapons registration, safety courses every time I want to drive more than two goddamned hours, etc. I get it, Joe is a retard sometimes. Doesn't mean everyone should have to suffer for it.

9/6/2011 11:29:39 PM

Have you thought about reserves or National Guard?
I was never active duty and I know many prior active guys don't mesh well in reserve units, but for some it is a good transition. A minimum 6yr contract kinda sucks though.

In my case I graduated college last year, both wars were winding down and losing support and I was beginning to see many things that dissatisfied me about our reasons for being in Iraq (not so much Afghan). Anyways, I did as much research as possible on all the branches and various jobs and settled on Coast Guard reserves. I chose reserves because I'm going back to masters school.

Many people bash my service, but after researching it I found some really cool jobs. The newly created Deployable Operations Group was stood up in 2007 and offer some really unique opportunities and allows you to take a more combat oriented role in the CG. My unit deploys often to the middle east, africa and asia combatting piracy and weapons smuggling. We conduct mostly Visit Board Search and Seizure operations on suspect vessels and port security missions. This seamed like a pretty exciting mission to me and something that I felt was a clear situation of good vs evil. Being able to switch between DHS and DOD command also gives us the ability to respond INCONUS to natural disasters or law enforcement issues. I really enjoy my time at the unit and we have at least 50% of our guys who were prior service in other branches, mostly marines or navy sailors. The reserve gig works well for me too, although it seems like drill weekends always fall at the worst times...

There's also the option of working in the blue side of the coast guard where you will work close to home and have the opportunity to help the american people directly. It always to keep a sense of military pride, but due to it's small size (43,00 members) things are done efficiently and I often hear prior service guys say that they are much happier than they were in other branches.

Not trying to start a pissing contest between branches, I have no experience in the others, but many of the guys I work with really enjoy their time here and I feel we are a branch that many folks never consider. It may be something worth looking into. Just a thought. Best of luck with whatever you decide!

[Edited on September 6, 2011 at 11:37 PM. Reason : .]

9/6/2011 11:31:43 PM

Quote :

"[Edited on September 6, 2011 at 9:02 PM. Reason : I love lots of things about my job...but stupid shit that is totally unnecessary pisses me off a lot]"

Amen!!! big reason Im getting out.

9/6/2011 11:36:48 PM

Quote :

"Thank all of you for your service"

9/6/2011 11:38:32 PM

Quote :

"unlike a 9-to-5, the military insists on controlling every little aspect of your life. Motorcycles, weapons registration, safety courses every time I want to drive more than two goddamned hours, etc. I get it, Joe is a retard sometimes. Doesn't mean everyone should have to suffer for it."

Exactly. Hammering people's tits at work for speeding tickets or whatever out in town, getting travel plans approved, certain places being off-limits (not that I have any desire to go to, say, a head shop or even a legitimate tobacco shop that also sells spice or whatever, but I don't like being told that I can't go into a legitimate business)...things like this drive me nuts. Motorcycles are a pain in the ass, although thankfully a little more sensible nowadays than they were a couple of years ago (total debacle for a while there). The speeding ticket thing is particularly infuriating...if I get a 60 in a 45, it's gonna cost me a few hundred bucks. Why the hell isn't that enough? My job shouldn't be involved with it in any way, and I sure as shit shouldn't suffer negative impacts to my career over some inconsequential silly shit like that.

Holy fuck, I mean, 2D MAW actually has standing orders that you aren't allowed to drive outside the local area during hours of darkness, and there are a couple of unpaved roads that you flat-out aren't allowed to drive on, ever (people kept wrecking because they were driving a stupid speeds on dirt roads).

SNCOs and officers wonder why the junior enlisted Marines are paying out of pocket to have a place to stay out in town when they have a room in the barracks and don't get a housing allowance...maybe it's because we won't leave them the fuck alone? I mean, weekly room inspections are one thing, but for a while--I'm not making this up--my squadron had an order where SDOs were supposed to walk through the barracks 3 times PER DAY, to include 10 inspections of individual rooms (per day!)--never mind the fact that there is a duty NCO in the barracks AND a barracks manager (also NCO). Do we really want Captains to be inspecting probably 20% of the squadron's barracks rooms per day? (nobody actually did it, mind you, but those were the rules).

It's pervasive into the entire psyche, too...we had a pilot get grounded for 6 months and nearly lose his wings for something he did that was pretty much routine, not unsafe, and not against any rule. After that and some other similar stuff, the entire community was running scared, playing not to lose, rather than training aggressively like fucking warriors. I've seen the commanding officer of a squadron who, rightfully frustrated with the way we were being utilized in Iraq at the time, basically try to find any excuse he could for us not to fly. My take was that he was right, but that was a political fight and in the meantime, I was going to employ that jet in the most fangs-out way possible and do the most good I could. He forbade us from flying if the weather was even remotely unfavorable, for example. I know of another CO who all but shut down his squadron from flying any more than the minimum to keep aircrew legally current for over a year, as that was his way of (a) minimizing the chances of a mishap, and (b) making sure that all of the stupid administrative stuff looked good on paper for inspections.



This is what happens when we can crush any other country in the world in our sleep. In the absence of a worthy adversary, we start worrying way, way, WAY too much about all the wrong things.

Quote :

"Have you thought about reserves or National Guard?"

Yeah, I'll almost certainly go Reserves or Guard when I get out. Like I said, there's a ton of stuff that I love, but I can't tolerate the silly, day-to-day chickenshit.

[Edited on September 7, 2011 at 12:03 AM. Reason : ]

[Edited on September 7, 2011 at 12:07 AM. Reason : ]

9/7/2011 12:01:27 AM

sounds like you were in a shitty/nit picky unit, we only had inspections like once a month

one major thing that i have learned being out of the army, the BS may not be as extreme, but it is always there, its just different

example:i hate the fact that no one makes decisions, we all just sit around thinking of what to do, at least in the army/military a clear decision is made and followed through, i guess i just fit in better in a structured environment

9/7/2011 12:23:31 AM

^Yes! the lack of decision making in the civilian world bugs the hell out of me! People are always scared to speak up...

Also, fucking whiners At least in the military people only whine behind their superiors back, but they still get the job done with no questions asked.

I guess it's like any job, Pros and Cons

I have over five years left on my contact. I keep wondering what the military climate is going to be like in the next few years with the wars winding down. My unit deploys for six months early next year. After that we have a bunch of guys who are getting out. That means a unit chock full of new guys with no experience. Are yall seeing that in the other branches? Many of the experienced vets leaving?

9/7/2011 12:31:35 AM

Regarding the original post, I'm not trying to talk you into getting out. I reiterate, there are a ton of reasons to stay, and a lot of things I will miss a lot when I get out (and already do miss just a few weeks after being out of an operational unit).

We just got onto the subject of irritating chickenshit, and I have no shortage of vitriol regarding that subject.

9/7/2011 12:54:00 AM

Oh, and fuck reflective belts. Wearing them to go walk 100 feet outside at dawn in a deployed environment =

9/7/2011 1:00:16 AM

Sadly, they are only a symptom of far more severe issues.



...speaking of glowbelts, though, as best as I can tell, there isn't a single person in DoD who doesn't think that they're the most goddamn stupid and ridiculous thing ever, yet they only grow more and more pervasive.

[Edited on September 7, 2011 at 1:05 AM. Reason : ]

9/7/2011 1:02:09 AM

Oh I know, but it's one of the easiest things to attack

9/7/2011 1:04:43 AM

Quote :

"Many of the experienced vets leaving?"

My last deployment, I saw an 11 yr E6, 14 yr E7, 15 yr E6, and a 10 yr E6 get out. Thats one deployment!!! All because they were tired of the bullshit. I will be a 9 yr E6 when I get out.

Too many good people getting out, leaving the shit to float to the top.


And to respond to the civilian world and decision making. I am military working for civilians. It SUCKS.

A lot of 12 hr days with my thumb up my ass while that civilian is racking up mad overtime.

[Edited on September 7, 2011 at 4:05 AM. Reason : I WANT OVERTIME]

9/7/2011 4:03:38 AM

It's been a great experience for me so far. The Army has been pretty good to me up until I landed in a joint command.

There is a lot of bullshit to put up with. I work for a Navy Chief who has been in the Navy for 22 years and proudly states he's never set foot on a ship and refuses to go if he's called upon again to do it. He is also anti-PT and saw him block another sailor from trying to deploy to war, and then blocked him from trying to deploy on a ship after that. He is a career counselor and somehow convinced the guy that deploying on a ship was bad for his career.

He once called me in from a medical appointment during the Japan Earthquake crisis citing there's no one in the office and that I was badly needed. I thought to myself that there is something going on bigger than myself. So I canceled my appointment and showed up to work only to find that he was playing outside.

He avoids his subordinates, and leaves after half a day citing meetings that don't exist (usually due to a Navy chief calling in asking him where he's at). And for reasons I can't figure out, no one in the office holds him accountable.

Instead of stating "I want this to work like this," he will instead state "Well SSG Hudson talked to me and wants it this way," whether or not he really did talk to me. This way I was associated with all things negative, but he always had the good news.

After trying to find out the chain of command due to an unsatisfactory answer, he merely states that he only answers to the captain.

Yeah, there is a lot of bullshit in the military and I don't blame anyone for trying to leave. But I've had the pleasure of serving and seeing a great deal of things. Now I think it's time for me to try to see if it's time to close this chapter of my life and move on.

I made E-6 in 4 1/2 years and looking at E-7 upon my 7th year. I've earned a great reputation of getting the job done in spite of difficult odds. I've got a good thing going.

I think I can do more somewhere else for something better, but I've already got a good thing going... Should I keep this up? Or should I move on?

9/7/2011 6:18:27 AM

if you're gonna get 7 in 7, and you like what you do, stick with it; otherwise get out.


However, I will tell you this, you will miss it. You won't think so, you'll be like "fuck that noise", but you will. When I got out the first time, I didn't think I'd miss it. I partied, grew my hair long, did all the shit you can't do in the army; but in the end, I did miss it.

Then 9/11 happened, and I went back. Its been on ever since and I'll stay till I retire. You just gotta look inside your heart, be honest with yourself, and make a decision.

9/7/2011 10:36:14 AM

^
When my contract is up I'll be 29 and I'll have a masters degree by that time. I then need to decide if I will stay reserves, go active, switch services or leave all together. If I leave to take some time for myself, travel to other countries for extended periods, possibly do volunteer work in other countries, how lenient are they when you come back and want to re-enlist? I wouldn't think early 30's would be that big of a deal, but will age play a significant factor? How was your personal experience the second time around?

9/7/2011 5:53:40 PM

Quote :

" MEMORANDUM FOR ACC FSS/CC SUBJECT: Uniform Military Tuition Assistance Policy Update 1. The current DoD budget constraints have resulted in rumors regarding the Military Tuition Assistance (MTA) Program. Budget/funding discussions, which include the MTA program, are on-going at DoD level; however, final decisions have not been made. To dispel the rumors regarding termination of MTA the attached USecDef Memo provides an interim update. 2. The steady increase in course enrollments supported by a matching increase in tuition costs indicates that the program cannot be sustained IAW current policy requirements. A Task Force, comprised of representatives from all Services, completed a thorough review of the current MTA policy and recommended changes that are designed to maintain the core program while reducing costs. Consideration is being given to reducing the cap amount paid per hour as well as the annual fiscal year cap; however, as stated above no final decisions have been made. If approved, the changes will be included in Change 1 to DoDI 1322.25, Voluntary Education Programs, and will go into effect 1 January 2012, or earlier if a Service requires implementation prior to the 1 January date. 3. Request your assistance, and that of your FSD/FSDE staff, to quell the rumors purporting termination of the Military Tuition Assistance Program by ensuring all serviced military members that, although there will be changes to the program, MTA will continue to be available to support the DoD commitment to the continued growth of military personnel, both personal and professional. r/ //signed// Alice M. Jessup, DAFC Chief, Education Operations Br HQ ACC/A1KE "

Haha, so long Tuition Assistance!

So long retirement at 20!

So long whatever else benefits they can cut!

9/7/2011 5:55:59 PM

The new retirement benefits being discussed gives heavier credence to deployments and combat jobs.

I don't know what your MOS is but that may influence you a little.

9/7/2011 9:02:27 PM

I'm pretty certain those benefits cuts will be grandfathered in. It's not as though they can take back on the deal you joined into, and if they do, HUGE outcry...

9/7/2011 9:13:48 PM

Ha oh man. That sucks. Im depending on that TA to pay for school

E6 in 4.5 that is pretty balling. I made E6 in 5.5 and I thought I was rolling. geez!!

9/7/2011 9:37:53 PM

They've tried to back out of contracted benefits before. My grandfather told me it happened after WWII and they all marched on Washington. I'm on TA as well. I hope it will be grandfathered in!

9/7/2011 9:53:05 PM

Quote :

"Wearing reflective belts... in a deployed environment"

Wow.

9/7/2011 9:56:01 PM

Yeah, everyone bitches because all your CPTs and mid-level NCOs are getting out, but then they want to cut benefits. Does not compute.

My favorite right now is the rebirth of the 'leaner but better' bullshit. Son, ten brigades is ten brigades. There ain't no amount of training that will compensate for that when the yellow horde comes screaming over the hills at you.

9/7/2011 11:05:37 PM

chose an MOS that pays quite well in the private sector, and therefore has a very small retention rate

9/7/2011 11:50:27 PM

Quote :

"When my contract is up I'll be 29 and I'll have a masters degree by that time. I then need to decide if I will stay reserves, go active, switch services or leave all together. If I leave to take some time for myself, travel to other countries for extended periods, possibly do volunteer work in other countries, how lenient are they when you come back and want to re-enlist? I wouldn't think early 30's would be that big of a deal, but will age play a significant factor? How was your personal experience the second time around?"

If you get out, and do volunteer work in other countries, just be mindful of your surroundings, who you're volunteering for, people you meet, and the place you're in. All of which aren't (or shouldn't) be new topics for those working/living/volunteering overseas.

I don't think age plays a factor, there's some old mofos in the guard/reserves, but then again, don't think you can be 70 and score a 300 in the 17-21 age group pt test. It also depends on your MOS. If you're infantry/combat arms, your reflexes are the first to go, and if you can't hang, or if you're too slow to be an asset, then you might need to find a new job.

My personal experience the second time around? I'm more mature about the process, when I first went in, I was 17 from a one stoplight town in NC, aka I was clueless about how things worked (big picture wise). Now, I'm definitely more satisfied with my service, in fact, it means a lot more to me as well; but that also came with deploying and shit like that. I feel like I'm finally doing what I was meant to do in the military, even if it is in the guard with occasional times on active duty. I just followed my heart, and rolled with it.

9/8/2011 11:27:37 AM

There's something definitely empowering about serving. I totally agree. And learning a lot of awesome things you wouldn't learn anywhere else, seeing things that no one else would see, and doing a lot of stuff that you wouldn't get to do anywhere else. Sure, deployments suck pretty bad, but when you get to do something else besides that, I think military service is a pretty awesome job.

Now if it weren't for the idiots...

9/10/2011 4:37:59 PM

Like everything in life, you have to weight the pros and cons of the situation.

Personally, I have been in the Navy for 14 years now and am obligated through 16. Getting out before the 20 year point for me would be nothing short of blatant stupidity. In truth, I cannot think of any reason (other than sure death) that I would not sign a contract for my final 4 years. I will get retirement (yes, it will be around - http://militaryadvantage.military.com/2011/08/no-military-retirement-changes-anytime-soon/). The Navy has paid for my bachelor's and master's degrees, and I can use the Post 9/11 GI Bill to pay for my extremely cute daughter's college. I am making over $125,000 a year. I have to do 2.5 more years on a submarine, and the rest will be on shore duty of some sort.

That being said, if I was at my 10 year point, it would be a totally different story. I absolutely fucking hate my job. No disrespect to theDuke866 or anyone else in this thread, but I would bet my testicles and any other vital organ that the BS level involved when dealing with nuclear reactors and nuclear missiles on a submarine is worse than anything any other MOS deals with - bar none. I am not even going to get into it or try to describe it, I am just going to say that "it is". The military has aged me and before I reported to this command, had really caused me to get out of shape and become unhealthy. It has instilled in me some good qualities, but it has also instilled some bad ones as well. I have to be away from my wife (which sucks) and my little girl (which is gut-wrenching). And even though I am far less likely to die in my line of duty than most in this thread (by the way, thank you to all the warriors out there), there is always that chance that something goes wrong and we submerge but never resurface.

You have to weigh every fucking plus/minus and decide whether the military is for you. If pay/job security/health benefits doesn't enter your mind, then you are FeebleMinded. It doesn't have to be your main focus, but especially in this economy, it damn well better be a big consideration. There are lots of pros and cons either way. But like anything in life, you have to look at the consequences of either decision you make and then choose between the two. It's not easy.

9/10/2011 9:42:28 PM

^ Everything you describe is why I left after 11 years.

Despite what raiden says, I don't miss it at all. I was apprehensive about getting out (who doesn't get apprehensive about major life changes?), but I definitely do not miss being in.

9/10/2011 10:34:09 PM

Quote :

"Sure, deployments suck pretty bad, but when you get to do something else besides that, I think military service is a pretty awesome job. "

ha, I enjoyed my deployments. Now, I wasn't kicking in doors or getting blown up by IEDs all the time--I was flying. We had some guys get wounded (a couple of them pretty badly), but nobody got killed either time.

Quote :

"the BS level involved when dealing with nuclear reactors and nuclear missiles on a submarine is worse than anything any other MOS deals with - bar none."

Oh, I have no doubt.

The stuff that makes me want to get out, though, is the silly glowbeltism, nanny-statism, pussy-ass political correctness, and completely needless intrusion into your personal life.

9/11/2011 12:21:34 AM

Feebleminded nailed it.

Nuclear Navy is full of nothing but BS and all sorts of shit.

4 plus years of service nukes, to go work 3 years in the sub nukes world. Just a giant kick in the dick.

Though the Navy is paying for all my school. I will not complain about that. Unless TA goes away and I have to use my GI bill while I am in.

ET1(SW)

9/11/2011 12:29:06 AM

Wow... Feebleminded did nail it. Weigh every fucking pro and con of military service... I'm going to be doing some weighing for some time in the future... This is going to get me on a fence...

9/11/2011 4:42:07 AM